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mlepfitjw

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What are some thoughts that come in to your mind when you hear about works?
When you think about works, what does that mean to you?
How are we saved by our works?
How do you define works?
What does it mean to be saved by works?
Where do you believe works start to take effect in someones life?
Why do works matter? Or do they matter?
What do you think it means if we are judged by our works?
When is it possible for someone to fall away from faith?
Why do you think it is possible, or why do you not think it is possible for someone to fall from faith?

  • “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10.
  • These are works done, not in our own strength and for our own benefit, but by the grace of God and in obedience to Him – led by the Holy Spirit, to God’s glory.

  • The way of works is the way of life, for “He who does the will of God abides forever.” 1 John 2:17.

  • “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.” Matthew 7:21-23.

To the church
Many people use the word to denote the entire body of Christians, and others to describe a certain denomination or group or even the physical building that Christians gather in. The Bible makes it clear that the true... in Revelation chapters 2 and 3, we read constantly, “I know your works,” and “Do the first works.” “You hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans. “As for your works, the last are more than the first.” “… and keeps My works until the end.” “For I have not found your works perfect before God.” In other words, they should have been perfect!!!

The only thing that interests God is our works – the works He has prepared for us! It is the only thing that weighs anything on the scales!

Our faith is activated by walking in the prepared works: The obedience to the faith: Faith made active by works

What does the Bible say about the prepared works?
  • “Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.” Ecclesiastes 9:10.

  • For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil.” Ecclesiastes 12:14.

  • “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.” 2 Corinthians 5:10.

  • “What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith, but does not have works? Can faith save him? But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” James 2:14-26.

  • “His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.” Revelation 19:7-8.

  • “And purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.” Titus 2:14.

  • In all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works.” Titus 2:7.

  • “To obey, to be ready for every good work.” Titus 3:1.

  • “That those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works.” Titus 3:8.

  • “And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.” Titus 3:14.

  • “Disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.” Titus 1:16.

  • “But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.” James 1:22.

  • “Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.” James 3:13.

  • “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me to give to every one according to his work.” Revelation 22:12.

Read about how obedience God’s Word leads us to the good works prepared for us: “At Your word” – the motto that brings results

Faith leads to works
We understand quite clearly — assuming that we do want to understand — that works are the only things that count for anything, the only things that are required, the only things that are of any value.

What then about the works that Christ has done for us? His finished work? His grace? All of this is meant to influence our works so that they are pure and good, and stand the test before God. The degree that our works have changed is the degree to which we have been saved, and we will be rewarded accordingly.

It’s of no help wanting to do the good if it is not getting done. There is, of course, no other Christianity than works-Christianity! Everything else is and remains — as the word says — pure deception!!!

How do we define works? In Titus 3:14, it explains let our people also learn to maintain good works, so they may not be unfruitful.

What explains in the bible to how we may not be unfruitful?

Galatians 5: 22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
 

Jesus is YHWH

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Good thought provoking OP. Works are a result of salvation as per Ephesians 2:8-10. They are not a means to salvation which comes from Gods grace through faith. Think of the works in Ephesians 2 like the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:16-26.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
 
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Mr. M

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When you think about works, what does that mean to you?
Obedience.
1 Peter 1:
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest hope fully upon the grace
that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
 
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Saint Steven

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@Agallagher --- I think there is an aspect of works referred to in Eph.2:10 that tends to be overlooked. The individualized nature of the works being referred to. Scripture below in NIV and KJV.

We were created (in Christ Jesus) to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Or as the KJV states it, "before ordained that we should walk in them."

This is not a list of good deeds from which to choose. These are opportunities that God puts along the path of our individual lives. Granted, there are standard good works that we should be doing. But we need to watch for these preordained individualized opportunities that cross our path. Each of us has a unique place in the world to reach others. Like a strategic spiritual beachhead position.

Ephesians 2:10 NIV
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2:10 KJV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
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1213

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What are some thoughts that come in to your mind when you hear about works?
When you think about works, what does that mean to you?
...
Galatians 5: 22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

To me works are like fruit of a tree. They tell is the tree good or bad. Works are only result, they tell is person righteous or not. They don’t save, but if one is righteous, he gets eternal life as a gift.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
 
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Kenny'sID

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Why do works matter? Or do they matter?

Yes, they matter, because works shows we have faith. Plus we are simply told we must do works by Jesus himself, as in the parable of the Sheep and the Goats which also contains an answer to the what works are that you were interested in.
 
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mlepfitjw

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You have all shared with each other the importance of works.

I would agree with most of what you have all had to say about works.

Jesus had said this about the fruit in a persons life.

  • Matthew 7:

  • 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

  • 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit.

  • 19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire.

  • 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
Jesus is the (vine, everlasting water (John 4:14, John 15:1-15) life giver, that is flowing through a vine, and gives nourishment to believers. We as believers can stop the flow of the life giver and end up causing a bad tree to form, or we can allow the flow of the life giver to a part of our lives and his nourishment gives life to the fruit we bear that comes in and through and by him, through the spirit that resides with in us.

If we had to define works, what would we say they are?

  • For me it would be that works are defined by the love of a Christian gives towards others. Are they forgiving, kind, forbearing, patient, encouraging, supportive, do they turn the other cheek, do they only desire the good for those who are their enemy to change from their ways.

  • If a believer lives by the spirit: nourishment is received from our Lord, to be able to have the attributes which come by and through the spirit which reminds us of what the Lord has said about loving God, and loving our neighbor as ourself.

  • When the opportunities arise of course; the more try and do is a open session that can lead to problems. Sometimes it is okay to just patiently wait for opportunities to arise were you can show love towards others, and be encouraging, supportive, forgiving, patient, kind, in those times. Love, and pray for all men as the scriptures say.

What does it mean if you are going to be judged by these works?
Why does it say you will be judged by the works done good or bad?
What are we working for?

My teacher states that from (Hebrews 11:35), that we are working for a better resurrection, and the works we do allow us to be more in closer proximity to God.

What are your thoughts? @1213, @Kenny'sID, @Saint Steven, @Tigger45, @Minister Monardo, @Jesus is YHWH

Thank you so much for all of your replies, they have been helpful.
 
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mlepfitjw

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Good thought provoking OP. Works are a result of salvation as per Ephesians 2:8-10. They are not a means to salvation which comes from Gods grace through faith. Think of the works in Ephesians 2 like the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:16-26.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

JesusIsJWHW, reading over these scriptures, what you are sharing with us is correct, and true.

If we live to our fleshly desires we reap destruction in our life because, of what the flesh is capable of producing in a persons life. The wages of the types of sin people can produce leads to death, and all of these sins are found in Galatians 5:16-21.

If we live to walk by the spirit that resides in us as believers, being born again and renewed in spirit, receive the ability to by the holy spirit/spirit of Christ to have peace, joy, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.

The reason the above happens after being reborn again as a believer in Jesus Christ, is you desire to bring your heart more to trying to love God more than the world.

The more you seek and stand in the truth of the Gospel and Hope of the Lord Jesus Christ, the more that the world starts to have less grip on you the more you start to think on heavenly, things and not the things on earth.

The more you set your eyes on the earthly the more hatred, envying, strife, wrath, lasciviousness, is going to be an apparent destruction in ones life.

Whatever you make the choice to do, if we decide to live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. However, do not be desirous of vain glory, do not provoke one another, and do not envy one another.

Obedience.
1 Peter 1:
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest hope fully upon the grace
that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

Minister Monardo, rest in hope in the Lord Jesus Christ. To have the correct conduct among any person that comes along your path way, as our Lord Yeshua, has taught unto us by the word of God we have today, we can be transformed from our old ways, and by God can allow for new ways to be produced that come from with-in by the strength that Christ Yeshua gives unto us, by the holy spirit/spirit of Christ.

What would the spirit of Christ have you do when someone has wronged you?

Are you able to forgive the person?

If you see someone who is trying to pull someone up from dropping to their death would you run up to help?

Are you able to let go of traditions and allow the spirit of christ to cause you to love, than to fight against another brother or believer?

Works are an indication of a living faith just as good fruit are indicators of a healthy tree.

Tigger 45, you give a great summary here, thank you for sharing it. It helped remind me of Matthew Chapter 7.

@Agallagher --- I think there is an aspect of works referred to in Eph.2:10 that tends to be overlooked. The individualized nature of the works being referred to. Scripture below in NIV and KJV.

We were created (in Christ Jesus) to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Or as the KJV states it, "before ordained that we should walk in them."

This is not a list of good deeds from which to choose. These are opportunities that God puts along the path of our individual lives. Granted, there are standard good works that we should be doing. But we need to watch for these preordained individualized opportunities that cross our path. Each of us has a unique place in the world to reach others. Like a strategic spiritual beachhead position.

Ephesians 2:10 NIV
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2:10 KJV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Really like what you had to say here about how these are opportunities of God for us to react and decide what our choice may be, when ever these types of opportunities appear in a believers life.

It is true what you are saying, because we are all here for a reason, and one of those reasons is to love our neighbor.

If we choose to walk by the spirit, a believer will be able to fulfill these times in their life, because how good God really is.

To me works are like fruit of a tree. They tell is the tree good or bad. Works are only result, they tell is person righteous or not. They don’t save, but if one is righteous, he gets eternal life as a gift.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

1213, you have a great insight here. You see works are like fruit of a tree.

You are able to tell if a fruit on a tree is bad because of how corrupt it would be.

You are able to tell if a fruit on a tree is good because of how bright the colors are, how vividly delicious the fruit is, or in other terms how the light of Jesus shines from with-in.

Choosing to being a slave to righteousness, which brings life, over a slave to sin which brings forth corruption in a persons life, and also brings forth death.

You also reminded me of Matthew 7.

Yes, they matter, because works shows we have faith. Plus we are simply told we must do works by Jesus himself, as in the parable of the Sheep and the Goats which also contains an answer to the what works are that you were interested in.

Kenny, you say that works matter because works shows we have faith. I would agree with you.
 
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SkyWriting

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People get caught up in legalism (finger pointing at others) and they lose the Faith.
They can recover and regain their salvation.

What Does the Bible Say About Falling Away?
This gets into the whole area of the OSAS question. (Once Saved Always Saved?) Which is in itself quite divisive. Any respondents will line up on one side or the other. (thus dividing us) Can't be helped, I suppose.

And I certainly can't agree that someone could actually lose their salvation due to legalistic finger-pointing. Though it may appear so.

I maintain that we cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God can do in the first place. Nor can we "regain salvation" by an act of our own will.

It is our relationship with God that is being damaged and then restored, not our position in reference to salvation. Our salvation has already been paid for. (while we were still sinners Christ died for us) And as his sheep, he leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one and carry them back.

In the rare case of what we refer to as reprobation, God can choose to condemn an individual to judgment outside of grace. This does not mean that the person is cut off from the mercy of God if they repent, that is, turn back to God.
 
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mlepfitjw

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God did not have the priests "paid" to worship Him. Worship is not "work", so if you are worshipping you are not working (even if you doing a ton of hard labor). What is worship?

John 4:24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Is worshiping being connected to God through the spirit, and in truth? Asking for God's help, trusting God for all that he has done, walking by the spirit in the trust of the truth that God, and his Son Jesus Christ has given?
 
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grafted branch

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  • These are works done, not in our own strength and for our own benefit, but by the grace of God and in obedience to Him – led by the Holy Spirit, to God’s glory.
  • The way of works is the way of life, for “He who does the will of God abides forever.” 1 John 2:17.

When looking at works, don’t forget about John 6:26-29, where it shows that the act of believing is considered work.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
 
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Kenny'sID

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JesusIsJWHW, reading over these scriptures, what you are sharing with us is correct, and true.

If we live to our fleshly desires we reap destruction in our life because, of what the flesh is capable of producing in a persons life. The wages of the types of sin people can produce leads to death, and all of these sins are found in Galatians 5:16-21.

If we live to walk by the spirit that resides in us as believers, being born again and renewed in spirit, receive the ability to by the holy spirit/spirit of Christ to have peace, joy, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.

The reason the above happens after being reborn again as a believer in Jesus Christ, is you desire to bring your heart more to trying to love God more than the world.

The more you seek and stand in the truth of the Gospel and Hope of the Lord Jesus Christ, the more that the world starts to have less grip on you the more you start to think on heavenly, things and not the things on earth.

The more you set your eyes on the earthly the more hatred, envying, strife, wrath, lasciviousness, is going to be an apparent destruction in ones life.

Whatever you make the choice to do, if we decide to live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. However, do not be desirous of vain glory, do not provoke one another, and do not envy one another.



Minister Monardo, rest in hope in the Lord Jesus Christ. To have the correct conduct among any person that comes along your path way, as our Lord Yeshua, has taught unto us by the word of God we have today, we can be transformed from our old ways, and by God can allow for new ways to be produced that come from with-in by the strength that Christ Yeshua gives unto us, by the holy spirit/spirit of Christ.

What would the spirit of Christ have you do when someone has wronged you?

Are you able to forgive the person?

If you see someone who is trying to pull someone up from dropping to their death would you run up to help?

Are you able to let go of traditions and allow the spirit of christ to cause you to love, than to fight against another brother or believer?



Tigger 45, you give a great summary here, thank you for sharing it. It helped remind me of Matthew Chapter 7.



Really like what you had to say here about how these are opportunities of God for us to react and decide what our choice may be, when ever these types of opportunities appear in a believers life.

It is true what you are saying, because we are all here for a reason, and one of those reasons is to love our neighbor.

If we choose to walk by the spirit, a believer will be able to fulfill these times in their life, because how good God really is.



1213, you have a great insight here. You see works are like fruit of a tree.

You are able to tell if a fruit on a tree is bad because of how corrupt it would be.

You are able to tell if a fruit on a tree is good because of how bright the colors are, how vividly delicious the fruit is, or in other terms how the light of Jesus shines from with-in.

Choosing to being a slave to righteousness, which brings life, over a slave to sin which brings forth corruption in a persons life, and also brings forth death.

You also reminded me of Matthew 7.



Kenny, you say that works matter because works shows we have faith. I would agree with you.

I'm glad you do. Works is actually faith in action, and without them, we have no faith. Or as the scriptures say, without works our faith is dead, and the last thing I want to be presenting to Christ on judgment day is dead faith/no faith at all, or all talk and no walk.
 
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Is worshiping being connected to God through the spirit, and in truth? Asking for God's help, trusting God for all that he has done, walking by the spirit in the trust of the truth that God, and his Son Jesus Christ has given?
The little phrase in your post "Asking for God's help", reminds me that we need to ask God for the solution more than offer him one. We tend to think an answered prayer is when we get the specific thing we asked for.

We tend to forget that our God uses incomprehensible solutions to solve our problems. The sea parts, axe heads float, the walls come tumblin' down, a boy's lunch feeds 5,000. Solutions we never would have dreamed of.

I am more afraid to receive what I asked for than to leave the solution up to God.
 
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What are some thoughts that come in to your mind when you hear about works?

Sanctification by God after one is saved by God's grace (i.e. God's grace = Accepting Jesus as one's Savior, believing that He died for our sins, He was burial, and He was risen three days later for our salvation, and in seeking forgiveness of our sins with Him).

Sanctification is the second step or stage in the salvation process. Sanctification includes doing good works, living holy, and putting away sin by God's power. Being saved by God's grace is the 1st step in the salvation process.

You said:
When you think about works, what does that mean to you?

When I think of works, I think of both the true way of works, and the false way of works. The true way of works is God directed works done through the believer after a person is saved by God's grace. Good works include any proactive or action command as found in the New Testament. For example: Preaching or spreading the gospel is a good work or proactive NT Command. Do not murder would be a prohibitive command and not exactly a good work (Although it is one super small passive way of loving your neighbor). For a person can do nothing and automatically not murder, covet, steal, etc.; But they would not exactly be doing a good work. Good works would be like helping the poor, and loving the brethren, or loving your enemies. When I say love, I am not talking about a high five. We are talking about loving in action by either helping them financially (if needed), or helping them with a manual labor project to meet their basic needs, and or feeding them the Word of God.

False works would be someone who thinks that they do good works apart from God and or that they believe they are saved by a system of works alone without God's grace. The Pharisees believed in a form of works alone as a part of salvation. They either denied God's grace, and or de-emphasized it. The Parable of the Tax Collector shows us this fact. Also, the Jerusalem council in Acts of the Apostles 15 shows that the brethren were fighting against “Circumcision Salvationism” (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). This is the false belief that says that one must first be circumcised in order to be saved. By default, this kind of belief makes works the basis for their salvation and not God's grace. Hence, why Paul argued for God's grace in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, and Titus 3:5. We can see hints of Paul fighting against “Circumcision Salvationism” in Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:15, 1 Corinthians 7:18-19, Romans 2:28-29, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Acts of the Apostles 21:21.

How are we saved by our works?

Salvation is all about God. We alone are not good without God. When we accept God's grace through His Son Jesus Christ, we then abide in the Son and will naturally produce the fruits of all person's of the Trinity or Godhead. Being saved by works is possible only if we are first saved by God's grace. We cannot put the cart before the horse. But salvation is neither in being fruitless, either. Belief Alone-ism is false. Salvation includes being fruitful because one abides with God. Our works is a part of the Sanctification Process (Which is the second step or stage in the salvation process).

Some will say we will automatically do good works as a by-product of being saved by God's grace. But this sound like Calvinism in reverse (Although many Calvinists believe they can sin and still be saved). Anyways, we are not forced to be a certain way after we are saved by God's grace. For...

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

  1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

  2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

  3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

You said:
How do you define works?
What does it mean to be saved by works?

I believe my answers above should satisfy these questions.

You said:
Where do you believe works start to take effect in someones life?

The Bible does not specifically say, but that does not mean that works are not required. Only God can judge a person's heart and life when it comes to this issue. But I imagine if a Christian has lived for 10 years and they have no works to show in their life, then they are no longer saved by God's grace. They could have been initially saved for a short time, but if they kept refusing to answer God's call to obey Him, they are simply choosing sin and disobedience over God.

Why do works matter? Or do they matter?

Because it is a part of the salvation process. Most churches today teach we are saved by either Belief Alone-ism or a sin and still be saved type belief (Which is false).

You said:
What do you think it means if we are judged by our works?

Eternal Security Proponents think that this happens to a person who rejects Jesus or who rejects Belief Alone-ism or OSAS. The reality is that the Parable of the Talents shows that the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Compare Matthew 25:21, with Matthew 25:30).

You said:
When is it possible for someone to fall away from faith?

I believe anytime a person wants to. We are not held captive against our will to serve the Lord.
While I believe God may fight for a person, we know that many have already have fallen away according to Scripture.

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)​

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)​

In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

I try to answer the rest of what you posted in another post.
 
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What are some thoughts that come in to your mind when you hear about works?
When you think about works, what does that mean to you?
How are we saved by our works?
How do you define works?
What does it mean to be saved by works?
Where do you believe works start to take effect in someones life?
Why do works matter? Or do they matter?
What do you think it means if we are judged by our works?
When is it possible for someone to fall away from faith?
Why do you think it is possible, or why do you not think it is possible for someone to fall from faith?

  • “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10.
  • These are works done, not in our own strength and for our own benefit, but by the grace of God and in obedience to Him – led by the Holy Spirit, to God’s glory.

  • The way of works is the way of life, for “He who does the will of God abides forever.” 1 John 2:17.

  • “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.” Matthew 7:21-23.

To the church
Many people use the word to denote the entire body of Christians, and others to describe a certain denomination or group or even the physical building that Christians gather in. The Bible makes it clear that the true... in Revelation chapters 2 and 3, we read constantly, “I know your works,” and “Do the first works.” “You hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans. “As for your works, the last are more than the first.” “… and keeps My works until the end.” “For I have not found your works perfect before God.” In other words, they should have been perfect!!!

The only thing that interests God is our works – the works He has prepared for us! It is the only thing that weighs anything on the scales!

Our faith is activated by walking in the prepared works: The obedience to the faith: Faith made active by works

What does the Bible say about the prepared works?
  • “Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.” Ecclesiastes 9:10.

  • For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil.” Ecclesiastes 12:14.

  • “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.” 2 Corinthians 5:10.

  • “What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith, but does not have works? Can faith save him? But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” James 2:14-26.

  • “His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.” Revelation 19:7-8.

  • “And purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.” Titus 2:14.

  • In all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works.” Titus 2:7.

  • “To obey, to be ready for every good work.” Titus 3:1.

  • “That those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works.” Titus 3:8.

  • “And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.” Titus 3:14.

  • “Disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.” Titus 1:16.

  • “But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.” James 1:22.

  • “Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.” James 3:13.

  • “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me to give to every one according to his work.” Revelation 22:12.

Read about how obedience God’s Word leads us to the good works prepared for us: “At Your word” – the motto that brings results

Faith leads to works
We understand quite clearly — assuming that we do want to understand — that works are the only things that count for anything, the only things that are required, the only things that are of any value.

What then about the works that Christ has done for us? His finished work? His grace? All of this is meant to influence our works so that they are pure and good, and stand the test before God. The degree that our works have changed is the degree to which we have been saved, and we will be rewarded accordingly.

It’s of no help wanting to do the good if it is not getting done. There is, of course, no other Christianity than works-Christianity! Everything else is and remains — as the word says — pure deception!!!

How do we define works? In Titus 3:14, it explains let our people also learn to maintain good works, so they may not be unfruitful.

What explains in the bible to how we may not be unfruitful?

Galatians 5: 22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

I would also highly recommend watching this video.

 
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The only thing that interests God is our works – the works He has prepared for us! It is the only thing that weighs anything on the scales!

Our faith is activated by walking in the prepared works: The obedience to the faith: Faith made active by works

True, but there are many who may agree with these kinds of statements and yet still say that works does not play a part in our salvation. Works is a part of the Sanctification Process after we are saved by God's grace. It is a part of living holy unto the Lord. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).

You said:
Read about how obedience God’s Word leads us to the good works prepared for us: “At Your word” – the motto that brings results

Faith leads to works
We understand quite clearly — assuming that we do want to understand — that works are the only things that count for anything, the only things that are required, the only things that are of any value.

Some think James chapter 2 is referring to works in regards to being justified before men and not God. But this is not the case. The works that justify are before God. For Abraham was justified by works in offering up Isaac, and yet nobody was around to see Abraham to do this good work.

You said:
What then about the works that Christ has done for us? His finished work? His grace? All of this is meant to influence our works so that they are pure and good, and stand the test before God. The degree that our works have changed is the degree to which we have been saved, and we will be rewarded accordingly.

Many who say that we are saved only by the finished work of Christ alone do not believe we are saved in any way by works. Many will even say they can sin and still be saved, as well. This means one can live like the devil in some way and still be in God's good kingdom without confessing and forsaking sin. But this is not what the Bible teaches. Proverbs 28:13 says that we need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy.

You said:
It’s of no help wanting to do the good if it is not getting done. There is, of course, no other Christianity than works-Christianity! Everything else is and remains — as the word says — pure deception!!!

Agreed.

You said:
How do we define works? In Titus 3:14, it explains let our people also learn to maintain good works, so they may not be unfruitful.

What explains in the bible to how we may not be unfruitful?

Galatians 5: 22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

I am in total agreement.
 
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[Post #10] People get caught up in legalism (finger pointing at others) and they lose the Faith.
They can recover and regain their salvation.

What Does the Bible Say About Falling Away?

full

Legalism is a charge that gets thrown a lot by many. It means different things to many people. According to God's Word: It is not legalism to obey God, and or to enter the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation (After we are saved by God's grace). If you disagree with those verses on Sanctification for salvation, then you need to explain them in how they work from your viewpoint or belief. For the Bible does clearly teach that...


After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:

(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
 
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