Who is the woman in Revelations 12?

Major1

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You and countless thousands of others have done it that way, do not agree, but nonetheless feel like you have the authority to teach. That authority was given to the Church.

That of course is a Catholic teaching given to you. It is not however found in the Bible.

My dear friend, the Bible repeatedly claims to be God's word.
See 1 Corinthians 14:37; 2:10-13;
Ephesians 3:3-5;
John 16:13;
Matthew 10:19,20;
Galatians 1:8-12;
2 Peter 1:20,21;
1 Thessalonians 2:13;
2 Timothy 3:16,17;
Luke 10:16.

If the Bible is God's word, it must harmonize with God's nature. When we study the Bible and when we understand God's nature, then we necessarily must believe that we can understand the Bible. To claim that we cannot understand the Bible and that the church is the only authority is either to deny that it is God's word or to impugn the character of God Himself.

When we read the Scriptures we see clearly that...............
1 Timothy 2:4 -
"God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

God does not want some to understand, but others are incapable. He wants all to know the truth.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 -
"The Scriptures were revealed by God to teach and instruct us in righteousness and provide us to all good works."

Romans 1:16 -
"The gospel of Christ is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes."

Titus 1:1-3 -
"God manifested (make known) His word in the message which was entrusted to Paul according to God's command."

So God wants everyone to know His will, and the inspired men revealed His will so people could know it.
 
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Major1

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Purgatory is a Scriptural concept that we are required to be perfected in charity before we can abide fully in the presence of God, in heaven. Simple as that. If you can find any Scriptures that support full sanctification is not necessary, or that it occurs completely in all believers before death, please provide such.

There is actually very little in official Church teaching about Purgatory. You are welcome to cite any official documents (councils, papal encylicals, universal catechisms) that support your view of what the Church teaches about Purgatory.

Whatever you think you know about Catholic teaching beyond those official sources is of no significance.

Incorrect!

There is not one single Scripture that suggests that there is a second chance after death.

Why are you trying to deny what the RCC has taught for generations on Purgatory. Are you seeing that it is not compatible with the Word of God as has many other Catholics who have actually read the Bible???????
 
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Major1

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I assume you believe in the Trinity? You know that the Jehovah Witnesses say that is a dogma that is non-Biblical and made up by the Catholic Church don't you? Their reasoning is exactly the same as yours about other dogmas the Church has professed.

If you've never read the Development of Christian Doctrine by John Henry Newman it might be worth your time. He explains how the complaints of Protestants that Catholics "made up" some doctrines, yet accept others like the Trinity and the Hypostatic Union are problematic because they all follow the same path of development.

And it's not "both" theologies. It's dozens of them. Most of them from people who claim their theology is the correct one based on Scripture alone.

The Jehovah Witnesses are NOT Christians so their opinion means nothing to me.

The Catholic church did not invent the Trinity.

The origin of the doctrine of the Trinity is the Bible, although the word Trinity is not used in the Bible it is seen al; through the Bible.

The first Christians knew the Holy Spirit was a separate Person with His own thoughts and will (John 16:13), who intercedes for us with God (Romans 8:27), proving He is a distinct Person from God the Father—since intercession requires at least two parties (no one intercedes with himself). Furthermore, a human can be forgiven for blaspheming God the Son, but not for blaspheming God the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:32).

New Testament writers mention all three Persons of the Trinity together numerous times (e.g., Romans 1:4; 15:30; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Ephesians 1:13–14; 1 Thessalonians 1:3–6). The early believers knew that the Father and the Son sent the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit—“another counselor”—to live in our hearts (John 14:16–17, 26; 16:7). These mysteries were accepted fully by the early church as revealed truth, yet without the label of “the Holy Trinity.”
What is the origin of the doctrine of the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

Theology is the attempt by flawed humans to understand the words of the Bible, just as science is the attempt by flawed humans to understand the facts of nature. All the facts of nature are true, just as all the original words of the Bible are true. But humans are limited and make lots of mistakes, as history continually shows. So, where there is error or disagreement in science or theology, both disciplines have methods of correction. The history of the early church reveals that many sincere Christian believers “got it wrong” when it came to defining God’s nature (a great lesson on the need for humility). But, through a careful study of God’s Word, the church was finally able to articulate what the Bible clearly teaches and what they knew to be true—God exists as an eternal Trinity.
 
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Major1

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Let's just say I've studied Reformed doctrine, Evangelical doctrine, Lutheran doctrine, Anglican doctrine, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Church of Christ, Methodists, Calvinists, Arminians, and the list could go on and on.... and all of their Biblical reasoning.

The differences are not minor, espcially in matters of salvation and all claim their beliefs are based on Scripture.

That is the glory of sola-Scriptura.

What I find interesting/funny about your comment is that with all the study you admitt to doing on all the Reformed doctrines......is that you would then hitch your horse to the Catholic wagon which has more UN-BIBLICAL teachings than a dog in the Alabama woods who has fleas.

IF....IF you have done all that work, why would you choose to follow a church which admitts that it does not accept neither does it follow the Bible as its authority.

The Catholic church teaches the following NON-BIBLICAL teachings........
The Catholic church is the one true church/CCC 2105
Infallibility of the Catholic Church/CCC 2035,
Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture/CCC 100
The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ/
CCC 2034,
Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture/
CCC 100
The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation/
CCC 846
Sacred Tradition equal to scripture/
CCC 82,
Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works/
CCC 2036, "
Grace can be merited/
CCC 2010,
Penance is necessary for salvation/
CCC 980,
Purgatory/
CCC 1031
Indulgences/
CCC 1471,
Mary is Mediatrix/ CCC 969,
Immaculate Conception of Mary/CCC 492.


I just find it very difficult to believe that YOU, who has done so much study can accept all of these NON-BIBLICAL teachings.

It is amazing to me!

As for me....I am just an old country boy and when I read the Bible where it says that "ALL have sinned and come short of God's Approval"......I believe what God said and it did not require all the study that YOU have told us you have done. "ALL MEANS ALL which includes Mary!
 
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Major1

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Let's just say I've studied Reformed doctrine, Evangelical doctrine, Lutheran doctrine, Anglican doctrine, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Church of Christ, Methodists, Calvinists, Arminians, and the list could go on and on.... and all of their Biblical reasoning.

The differences are not minor, espcially in matters of salvation and all claim their beliefs are based on Scripture.

That is the glory of sola-Scriptura.

Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.

2 Tim. 3:16.........
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

I can understand why every Catholic believer condemns it as it was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible. Some examples are........
prayer to saints and to Mary,
immaculate conception,
transubstantiation,
infant baptism,
indulgences, and

papal authority.
 
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bbbbbbb

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What I find interesting/funny about your comment is that with all the study you admitt to doing on all the Reformed doctrines......is that you would then hitch your horse to the Catholic wagon which has more UN-BIBLICAL teachings than a dog in the Alabama woods who has fleas.

IF....IF you have done all that work, why would you choose to follow a church which admitts that it does not accept neither does it follow the Bible as its authority.

The Catholic church teaches the following NON-BIBLICAL teachings........
The Catholic church is the one true church/CCC 2105
Infallibility of the Catholic Church/CCC 2035,
Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture/CCC 100
The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ/CCC 2034,
Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture/CCC 100
The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation/CCC 846
Sacred Tradition equal to scripture/CCC 82,
Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works/CCC 2036, "
Grace can be merited/CCC 2010,
Penance is necessary for salvation/CCC 980,
Purgatory/CCC 1031
Indulgences/CCC 1471,
Mary is Mediatrix/ CCC 969,
Immaculate Conception of Mary/CCC 492.


I just find it very difficult to believe that YOU, who has done so much study can accept all of these NON-BIBLICAL teachings.

It is amazing to me!

As for me....I am just an old country boy and when I read the Bible where it says that "ALL have sinned and come short of God's Approval"......I believe what God said and it did not require all the study that YOU have told us you have done. "ALL MEANS ALL which includes Mary!

"a dog in the Alabama woods who has fleas" I like that!
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yes, just like those who claim the dogma of the Trinity is an invention of the Catholic Church. I would again suggest reading Newman on the development of Christian doctine if you have not.

What has always struck me as more than peculiar is that Protestants have no trouble with the idea that God could use sinful, fallible men to write infallible Scripture. Yet the idea that God would also choose to use sinful, fallible men to guarantee that Truth is known down through the ages is to be rejected, and even mocked. But of course that acceptance would require letting go of the idea that the infallible interpreter selected was not oneself. Regardless that view is perplexing as it places an extraordinarly low value on Sacred Scripture to believe that God left it in our hands to be bandied about to support any and all opinions an individual can devise.

Nonetheless, regardless of your view that the Truth is to be found in some sort of majority opinion poll, that is not the method that Christ established. He founded a Church to be the pillar and ground of the Truth (1 Tim 3:15).

The reality is that the Catholic Church has evolved its dogma in contradistinction to all of the other branches of Christianity. This includes, but is not limited, to the four Marian dogmas as well as Purgatory.
 
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narnia59

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What I find interesting/funny about your comment is that with all the study you admitt to doing on all the Reformed doctrines......is that you would then hitch your horse to the Catholic wagon which has more UN-BIBLICAL teachings than a dog in the Alabama woods who has fleas.

IF....IF you have done all that work, why would you choose to follow a church which admitts that it does not accept neither does it follow the Bible as its authority.

The Catholic church teaches the following NON-BIBLICAL teachings........
The Catholic church is the one true church/CCC 2105
Infallibility of the Catholic Church/CCC 2035,
Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture/CCC 100
The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ/CCC 2034,
Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture/CCC 100
The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation/CCC 846
Sacred Tradition equal to scripture/CCC 82,
Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works/CCC 2036, "
Grace can be merited/CCC 2010,
Penance is necessary for salvation/CCC 980,
Purgatory/CCC 1031
Indulgences/CCC 1471,
Mary is Mediatrix/ CCC 969,
Immaculate Conception of Mary/CCC 492.


I just find it very difficult to believe that YOU, who has done so much study can accept all of these NON-BIBLICAL teachings.

It is amazing to me!

As for me....I am just an old country boy and when I read the Bible where it says that "ALL have sinned and come short of God's Approval"......I believe what God said and it did not require all the study that YOU have told us you have done. "ALL MEANS ALL which includes Mary!
Let's start with this one -- "All means all" which includes Mary.

Mark 1:4-5 says this -- "John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins."

Charles Spurgeon (hardly a Catholic) in his commentary on this passage wrote:
"Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts—some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile."

That's interesting, because if you look at the context of Romans 3:23, that is exactly the scenario -- St. Paul is railing that there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in terms of needing salvation. "All" he says (both Jews and Gentiles) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. He is not claiming every individual who has ever lived has sinned any more than St. Mark was claiming that every single person in Jerusalem came forth to be baptized by John the Baptist.

Still not convinced? Continue to read Romans. You get to Chapter 5 verse 12 and St. Paul says this:
"Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned"

Yet Scripture clearly records two men who did not die -- Elijah and Enoch. So does "all really mean all" as in each individual person who ever lived? It's pretty clear not.

This is why the Blueletter Bible Lexicon (Protestant) defines all as:
individually -- each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
OR
collectively - some of all types

G3956 - pas - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

And it's pretty clear since Paul is speaking to the fact that both Gentiles and Jews need salvation, and he says that death had to spread to all men, and he clearly knew that there were exceptions to that because all men had not died, he is using the term "all" to refer to "some of all types" not every individual person who has ever lived.
 
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narnia59

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Incorrect!

There is not one single Scripture that suggests that there is a second chance after death.

Why are you trying to deny what the RCC has taught for generations on Purgatory. Are you seeing that it is not compatible with the Word of God as has many other Catholics who have actually read the Bible???????
It is essential when discussing the doctrine of a group you disagree with to not create a "straw man" -- in other words defining the doctrine to mean something contrary to what they teach in order to attempt to knock it down.

Purgatory has never, ever been defined by the Church as a "second chance." The Catholic Church has always taught that an individual is judged at the moment of their death for heaven or hell, and that decision is final and irrevocable.

However, not all of those who are judged for heaven are yet "made perfect" as Hebrews 12:23 tells us about those in heaven. Say for example someone has done you harm, and you still retain ill feelings or a grudge against that person. Do you really think you're going to get into heaven with that grudge intact?

Or rather, on that Day that St. Paul writes about when your "work" is disclosed and tested by fire -- is it a work of wood, hay, stubble that will be burned up, even though you will be saved? (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)
 
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narnia59

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The reality is that the Catholic Church has evolved its dogma in contradistinction to all of the other branches of Christianity. This includes, but is not limited, to the four Marian dogmas as well as Purgatory.
Truth is not by majority vote.
 
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narnia59

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Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.

2 Tim. 3:16.........
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

I can understand why every Catholic believer condemns it as it was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible. Some examples are........
prayer to saints and to Mary,
immaculate conception,
transubstantiation,
infant baptism,
indulgences, and

papal authority.
The Bible has a lot to say about authority. I think if you do a word search of "authority" you will get 80+ hits. It speaks about the authority that secular leaders have, that parents have over their children, and the authority of men that God has placed over his people.

It never once in speaking about authority refers to itself. Not.One.Time.

2 Timothy 3:16 is indeed the strongest statement that Scripture makes about itself. It says it is "useful." How that gets morphed into being that it's the only authority needed is beyond me.

You also have to examine it in context. St. Paul doesn't write that to the Galatians, or the Ephesians, or to the Corinthians. He writes that to Timothy, a man who has been ordained and Paul has been grooming to step into his shoes. Not to congregations of believers.

That is why he refers to Timothy as "man of God." That is an Old Testament term denoting a prophet. It's only used twice in the New Testament, and that is Paul referring to Timothy, someone who is stepping into the role of an apostle.

So indeed, for a validly ordained man who has been given the authority to teach and be entrusted with the Gospel, Scripture is indeed useful as the passage says. But to turn that into the belief that Scripture "alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian?" More than a far stretch. Especially of an individual Christian since the statement was written to a church leader, not a congregation of believers.

But perhaps some references to what the Bible teaches about the Church and its authority would be useful:
  • Jesus tells the apostles that those who receive them, receive him (Matthew 10:40, John 13:20)
  • Jesus gives the apostles the authority to bind and loose (Matthew 18:18)
  • God takes that which is Christ's and give it to the apostles (John 16:14-15)
  • Jesus gives the apostles authority over unclean spirits (Mark 6:7,13, Luke 9:1-2)
  • The apostles commanded and expected obedience (2 Thessalonians 3:4-15)
  • The faithful are to obey and submit to their leaders (Hebrews 13:17)
  • The apostles have the authority to discipline (2 Corinthians 13:2, 13:9-10)
  • Jesus gave the apostles the authority to teach (Matthew 28:19-20) and to preach (Mark 3:14)
  • Jesus entrusted the apostes with the Gospel (1 Thessalonians 2:3-4), 1 Timothy 1:11, Titus 1:3, 1 Timothy 20,2 Timothy 1:14)
  • God commissioned the apostles and guarantees their preaching with the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 1:21-22) and he spreads knowledge of Himself through them (2 Corinthians 2:14-17)
  • God gives the apostles the authority to forgive sins (John 20:23). He even "breathes" on them. As Scripture is God-breathed, so is the Church
  • God's wisdom is to be made known through the church (Ephesians 3:10-11)
  • The Church is the pillar and the bulwark of the truth (1 Timothy 3:14-15)
  • The Church is the final deciding point in resolving conflict (Matthew 18:15-20)
  • Jesus, through the apostles will lead the Church into all truth (John 16:12-13)
  • Local church pastors were to be appointed by someone outside and over the congregation, not hired by them (Acts 14:23, Titus 1:5). Ask yourself why St. Paul never sent the qualifications for church leadership to a local congregation, but rather to Timothy and Titus. The entire act of a congregation hiring their own pastor is most certainly not Biblical. Where do you ever see that happen in Scripture?
 
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narnia59

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Nor is truth determined solely by some chap living in Rome, who happens to have been elected by a majority vote. Hmmmmm.
Is it determined by the valid authority Christ established in His Church -- the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Timothy 3:14-15)
 
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narnia59

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The Jehovah Witnesses are NOT Christians so their opinion means nothing to me.

The Catholic church did not invent the Trinity.

The origin of the doctrine of the Trinity is the Bible, although the word Trinity is not used in the Bible it is seen al; through the Bible.

The first Christians knew the Holy Spirit was a separate Person with His own thoughts and will (John 16:13), who intercedes for us with God (Romans 8:27), proving He is a distinct Person from God the Father—since intercession requires at least two parties (no one intercedes with himself). Furthermore, a human can be forgiven for blaspheming God the Son, but not for blaspheming God the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:32).

New Testament writers mention all three Persons of the Trinity together numerous times (e.g., Romans 1:4; 15:30; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Ephesians 1:13–14; 1 Thessalonians 1:3–6). The early believers knew that the Father and the Son sent the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit—“another counselor”—to live in our hearts (John 14:16–17, 26; 16:7). These mysteries were accepted fully by the early church as revealed truth, yet without the label of “the Holy Trinity.”
What is the origin of the doctrine of the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

Theology is the attempt by flawed humans to understand the words of the Bible, just as science is the attempt by flawed humans to understand the facts of nature. All the facts of nature are true, just as all the original words of the Bible are true. But humans are limited and make lots of mistakes, as history continually shows. So, where there is error or disagreement in science or theology, both disciplines have methods of correction. The history of the early church reveals that many sincere Christian believers “got it wrong” when it came to defining God’s nature (a great lesson on the need for humility). But, through a careful study of God’s Word, the church was finally able to articulate what the Bible clearly teaches and what they knew to be true—God exists as an eternal Trinity.
The Catholic Church did not invent the dogma of the Trinity. But when the question of the deity of Christ was under attack, it formalized the dogma so that there was no doubt, using the model given in Scripture for the Church to resolve conflict and profess the truth (Acts 15). The model it has used for 2000 years.

But there are people who reject the truth of the Trinity as defined by the Church and rely on their own interpretation of what the Scripture means. Something else that continues to this day.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Is it determined by the valid authority Christ established in His Church -- the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Timothy 3:14-15)

One searches in vain to find anything resembling the bureaucracy of your denomination existing prior to the Great Schism.
 
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narnia59

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One searches in vain to find anything resembling the bureaucracy of your denomination existing prior to the Great Schism.
That "bureaucracy" consists of deacons (1 Timothy 3:8-13), presbyters (1 Timothy 5:17-19), bishops (1 Timothy 3:1-2), and one bishop who uniquely holds the keys (Matthew 16:19). Indeed,there are a lot more of them than the first century as the acorn has grown into a oak tree. Perhaps that is why you don't recognize it.
 
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bbbbbbb

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That "bureaucracy" consists of deacons (1 Timothy 3:8-13), presbyters (1 Timothy 5:17-19), bishops (1 Timothy 3:1-2), and one bishop who uniquely holds the keys (Matthew 16:19). Indeed,there are a lot more of them than the first century as the acorn has grown into a oak tree. Perhaps that is why you don't recognize it.

You seem to have forgotten about Cardinals (those chaps who cast their majority votes in favor of another chap to become the head honcho who can speak for God), archbishops, all the various orders within the bureaucracy with their own bureaucracies, as well as those second-class folks which happen to be female.

The reality is the your alleged first Pope, Peter, would not recognize your bureaucracy as being the church of Jesus Christ.
 
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narnia59

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You seem to have forgotten about Cardinals (those chaps who cast their majority votes in favor of another chap to become the head honcho who can speak for God), archbishops, all the various orders within the bureaucracy with their own bureaucracies, as well as those second-class folks which happen to be female.

The reality is the your alleged first Pope, Peter, would not recognize your bureaucracy as being the church of Jesus Christ.
Cardinals are ordained bishops, nothing more. They've been given a title and a specific role to elect the Pope. Most of them are presiding as the bishop of a local diocese.

Achbishops are ordained bishops, nothing more. They merely preside over an archdiocese which is noted as such due to size. But they have no more authority than any other bishop. And all bishops report to the Pope. All in all a remarkably flat organization for a billion plus sized Church.

There are indeed numerous religious orders with various charims -- teaching, nursing, evangelization, prayer, etc. There are many gifts within the Church.

While much about the world has changed and would be unrecognizable to St. Peter, the Church would not be. There are those keys he received you see, handed down in succession for 2000 years.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Cardinals are ordained bishops, nothing more. They've been given a title and a specific role to elect the Pope. Most of them are presiding as the bishop of a local diocese.

Achbishops are ordained bishops, nothing more. They merely preside over an archdiocese which is noted as such due to size. But they have no more authority than any other bishop. And all bishops report to the Pope. All in all a remarkably flat organization for a billion plus sized Church.

There are indeed numerous religious orders with various charims -- teaching, nursing, evangelization, prayer, etc. There are many gifts within the Church.

While much about the world has changed and would be unrecognizable to St. Peter, the Church would not be. There are those keys he received you see, handed down in succession for 2000 years.

For a large number of cardinals, their sees are utterly meaningless, having lost all Catholics centuries ago either to other religions such as Islam or for other reasons. For other cardinals, their jurisdictions are really rather meaningless as they spend all of their time enjoying the comforts of the good life in Rome. The fact is that the College of Cardinals is not a club composed of all the bishops of the Catholic Church. Its membership is strictly limited to the upper echelon who are cardinals, not your run-of-the-mill bishops. It is these chaps who get to vote on which of them gets Peter's seat.
 
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narnia59

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For a large number of cardinals, their sees are utterly meaningless, having lost all Catholics centuries ago either to other religions such as Islam or for other reasons. For other cardinals, their jurisdictions are really rather meaningless as they spend all of their time enjoying the comforts of the good life in Rome. The fact is that the College of Cardinals is not a club composed of all the bishops of the Catholic Church. Its membership is strictly limited to the upper echelon who are cardinals, not your run-of-the-mill bishops. It is these chaps who get to vote on which of them gets Peter's seat.
It would be helpful if you could provide the source for your "information."

Mine shows that 70% of the Cardinals currently eligible to vote in a papal election are active diocesan bishops. Your claim that a "large number" have sees that are meaningless would prove to be faulty as 89% of those are presiding over archdioceses which indicates more than a few Catholics. Aside from that, someone from one of the more remote areas of the world trying to lead Christian faithful in an area that is extremely difficult would certainly have some valuable insight to provide and shouldn't be so easily dismissed.

Of the 7 of the 122 who have what some might consider to be "honorary" positions in Rome, the average age is 72, so after around 50+ years of active ministry, perhaps at least some time enjoying some of the comforts of life would not be an unreasonable thing.

When St. Peter was leading the apostles to select a successor to Judas, could he have foreseen a world with over a billion Catholics and 3000+ diocesan bishops and what that would look like? Probably not. The acorn and the tree can look very different, but they are organically the very same thing. His role was to get the Church moving in his time; his successors continue to move it forward. I am however glad you recognize that their vote fills the chair of St. Peter.
 
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