While they are saying Peace and Safety

Jamdoc · Sep 8, 2020

Lost4words said:
Jesus also said "This generation".

That was said for that generation.

Context.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Jesus didn't come in the clouds with power and great glory and gather His saints and then start pouring out wrath on the world in that generation.

Because in that generation, the fig tree withered. It would not put forth leaves for a long time.

It's the generation that sees the fig tree start putting forth leaves that will see the fulfillment of all things before they pass away.

a little more context, a few chapters further back in Matthew 21

18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

The "fig tree" was not fruitful, so it withered. When Israel was not fruitful, it also withered. One interpretation of what "this generation" that will see all things fulfilled is, that Israel, being the fig tree, began bringing forth leaves again in 1948. So, seeing that, you know summer is near. That'd be the baby boomer generation. If they are the fig tree generation, that'd make everything being fulfilled soon.
Of course, it could be a wrong interpretation. It could be a future one. But what it definitely wasn't, was the generation of Peter, John, James, and Andrew, because none of them saw the fulfillment of Jesus' return after the stones of Herod's temple were all torn down.

This is in contrast to Matthew 16:28

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

THIS was speaking to the disciples that they personally would see Jesus ascend to Heaven.

But you have to use context. When Jesus was talking about His return He said not one stone of the temple of Herod would be left standing on the other (which is ironic that the Jews seem to pray and weep at the 'western wall' which is NOT of the temple, because the temple was torn down not one stone standing on the other just as Jesus said. They weep at the wall of a Roman fortress, the roman fortress that tore their temple down, it is BITTER irony.), which did not happen until after Jesus ascended to heaven, so Jesus was not referring to His resurrection or ascension to heaven in the Olivet discourse, but a future return. Since Jesus did not come back in 70AD, that can't be the fulfillment.

Lost4words · Sep 8, 2020

Everyone thinks 'they' understand end times.

Lost4words · Sep 8, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Context.

Jesus didn't come in the clouds with power and great glory and gather His saints and then start pouring out wrath on the world in that generation.

Because in that generation, the fig tree withered. It would not put forth leaves for a long time.

It's the generation that sees the fig tree start putting forth leaves that will see the fulfillment of all things before they pass away.

a little more context, a few chapters further back in Matthew 21

The "fig tree" was not fruitful, so it withered. When Israel was not fruitful, it also withered. One interpretation of what "this generation" that will see all things fulfilled is, that Israel, being the fig tree, began bringing forth leaves again in 1948. So, seeing that, you know summer is near. That'd be the baby boomer generation. If they are the fig tree generation, that'd make everything being fulfilled soon.
Of course, it could be a wrong interpretation. It could be a future one. But what it definitely wasn't, was the generation of Peter, John, James, and Andrew, because none of them saw the fulfillment of Jesus' return after the stones of Herod's temple were all torn down.

This is in contrast to Matthew 16:28

THIS was speaking to the disciples that they personally would see Jesus ascend to Heaven.

But you have to use context. When Jesus was talking about His return He said not one stone of the temple of Herod would be left standing on the other (which is ironic that the Jews seem to pray and weep at the 'western wall' which is NOT of the temple, because the temple was torn down not one stone standing on the other just as Jesus said. They weep at the wall of a Roman fortress, the roman fortress that tore their temple down, it is BITTER irony.), which did not happen until after Jesus ascended to heaven, so Jesus was not referring to His resurrection or ascension to heaven in the Olivet discourse, but a future return. Since Jesus did not come back in 70AD, that can't be the fulfillment.

Interpretation

Jamdoc · Sep 8, 2020

Lost4words said:
Interpretation

Sure, but there is one thing I'm 100% sure of. The events described, are future events.

keras · Sep 8, 2020

As it was in the Days of Noah:

1 Thessalonians 5:3-5 You friends, are not in the dark, that Day will not come upon you like a thief. You are children of the Light, of the day. We do not belong to night and darkness. But while they are saying: all is peaceful, all secure; then destruction is upon them, suddenly as the pangs that come upon a woman in childbirth and there will be no escape.

‘You My friends’ - Those who love Him and keep His commands.

John 15:14-15 You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is about, I call you friends because I have disclosed to you everything that I heard from the Father.

‘that Day’- Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His ministry. He stopped at ‘and a Day of vengeance of our God’. That therefore, must be the next prophesied event.

It is wrong to think ‘that Day’ is the Return of Jesus in His glory, for these main reasons;

1/ The situation will hardly be: ‘all is peaceful’, at the end of the Tribulation and with the Anti Christ’s army coming to attack Jerusalem!

2/ The Return will not come ‘as a thief’, that is unexpectedly, because as anyone with a Bible can read that after the AC places his image in the Temple, it will be 1260 days, then the Return.

3/ As described to us in many prophecies, the Day of wrath is a worldwide event, on all nations:

Zephaniah 1:7 Keep silent in the presence of the Lord, for the Day of the Lord is near, the Lord has prepared a sacrifice and set apart those His has invited.

Isaiah 13:9 The Day of the Lord is coming, that cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to a desolation and to destroy the wicked there.

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the proud evildoers will be as stubble, that Day will set them ablaze leaving them neither root nor branch.

Revelation 6:17 For the great Day of their wrath has come and who can stand?

‘like a thief’- That is, unexpectedly to all the godless peoples and to those who have ignored or failed to understand the prophetic warnings.

Revelation 3:3 If you do not wake up, you will not know the moment of My coming.

Revelation 16:15 See: I am coming unexpectedly. Happy is the one who stays awake and ready.

Isaiah 46:10 From the beginning I reveal the end, from ancient times what is yet to be.

‘children of the light’-
1 Thess. 5:8 We who belong in the light, must keep prepared and armed with salvation.

Isaiah 42:6 I have formed and destined you to be a light to the nations.....

‘they say; all is peaceful, all secure’- The enemy nations prepare a surprise attack on Israel.

Micah 4:12 They do not understand God’s purposes, they are gathered like sheaves on the threshing floor.

Matthew 24:37-44 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Then they ate, drank and married right up to the day Noah went into the ark. They knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man comes. Be ready, therefore, lest He comes when you are unprepared.

‘suddenly destruction is upon them’- This is the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times in the Bible and accurately described as a CME sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26

Isaiah 47:8-11 Listen to this, you lovers of luxury, living carefree and thinking you will never be in mourning. Suddenly, in a single Day disaster will come upon you.

Jeremiah 25:32-33 The Lord says: Ruin spreads from nation to nation. A mighty tempest blows up and those whom the Lord has slain on that Day will lie scattered all over the world.

‘there will be no escape’-Everyone will be affected, this Day will come upon everyone. Luke 21:35

Romans 2:3 Do you imagine that you can escape the judgement of God?

Isaiah 2:19 They will creep into caves to hide when the Lord strikes the world with terror.

Revelation 6:16-17 They called out: Hide us from the wrath of God and the Lamb’.
Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

Jamdoc · Sep 8, 2020

Though it came to me, that the fig tree generation might not be the baby boomers, but rather gen x, if you see the fig tree as Jerusalem, which is where the tree Jesus withered was, rather than Israel at large. Jerusalem was taken by Israel in 1967.

Just a different way of looking at it, that still shows we can't be set in stone about the times, but should just watch.

NoNameNothing · Sep 8, 2020

Dave G. said:
When we actually see the peace treaty signed it will certainly get my attention. Scripture tells us that will be a false treaty but also the Anti Christ should be on the scene. We don't see him yet or that signed treaty. Something has to happen in the world to trigger the NWO that everyone wants the one leader. If this is that time we have some shaking to go through.

According to High Ranking Globalists, the Re-Set (the cashless-society is only the start) is the beginning of the New World Order... Which is the reason for the Covid-19 Crisis. Not everybody in the Church sees that, but, I believe it's here unfortunately.Of course there are other things happening too, "As in the days of Noah" and other signs to be identified and discovered.

Lost4words · Sep 8, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Sure, but there is one thing I'm 100% sure of. The events described, are future events.

And i think the opposite

Dave G. · Sep 8, 2020

NoNameNothing said:
According to High Ranking Globalists, the Re-Set (the cashless-society is only the start) is the beginning of the New World Order... Which is the reason for the Covid-19 Crisis. Not everybody in the Church sees that, but, I believe it's here unfortunately.Of course there are other things happening too, "As in the days of Noah" and other signs to be identified and discovered.

That potential exists indeed.

keras · Sep 9, 2020

NoNameNothing said:
According to High Ranking Globalists, the Re-Set (the cashless-society is only the start) is the beginning of the New World Order... Which is the reason for the Covid-19 Crisis. Not everybody in the Church sees that, but, I believe it's here unfortunately.Of course there are other things happening too, "As in the days of Noah" and other signs to be identified and discovered.

The Illuminati, the Gnomes of Zurich; call the secret powers behind world control what you want, they have been working toward a New World Order for more than 100 years. They have instigated 2 World Wars and Covid 19 could be one of their efforts; at least they have made it serious enough to virtually destroy most of the nations economies.

The next war they have planned will be in the Middle East, with Iran and the Islamic peoples going to attack Israel.
The result of this attack will not be what they expected, as the entire ME. will be virtually depopulated by the strike upon them all by the Lord. But from it a One World Govt will be established.
The Sleeper Awakes:

Psalms 94:1-7 God of vengeance 1, show Yourself. Repay the arrogant as they deserve. Rise now and judge the earth, give to the godless their just penalty. Lord: How long will the wicked exult? Evildoers oppress Your people, Your chosen nation. They say: The Lord does not see, the God of Jacob pays no heed.

Isaiah 42:14-15 Long have I restrained Myself 2, I kept silence and held Myself in check, now I am like a woman in labour, as in the throes of childbirth. I shall lay waste to the land, dry up rivers and lakes will become deserts.

Psalms 102:13 & 19-20 You will arise and have mercy on Zion, for it is time to pity her. The appointed time has come 3. The Lord looks down from His sanctuary on high and surveys the earth. He hears the supplications of the exiles and will set free those threatened with annihilation.

Psalms 78:65-66 Then the Lord awoke as a sleeper awakes 4, as a warrior suddenly disturbed. He struck His foes and defeated them, to their eternal shame.

Psalms 2:4-9 The Lord, enthroned in the heavens 5 laughs and derides His enemies. Angrily He rebukes them and in His wrath, He devastates the nations, shattering them like a clay pot.

Psalms 11:4-6 The Lord is on His throne in heaven 5. He observes all people and judges them. He hates those who love violence. He will rain fiery coals and brimstone upon the wicked peoples 6; scorching winds will be their sentence.

Psalms 50:1-5 Our God is coming and will not keep silent. A consuming fire runs ahead of Him and around Him a great storm rages 6.

Psalms 18:13 The Lord thundered from the heavens 5, He raised His voice amid hail and glowing coals. He hurled forth arrows of lightning 6 and sped them to their mark.

Joel 1:15, 2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 4:1, Zeph. 3:8, Isaiah 13:9, Isaiah 66:15-16, Jer. 9:22 The Day is near, the Day of the Lord it comes, as a mighty destruction from the Almighty. On that unexpected Day, the sky will be dispersed with a great noise and the earth will be enveloped in flames 7. All peoples will be brought to judgement and many will die. Ref; REB. Some verses abridged.

1/ We know God as a God of love, but also of justice and this means that He must exact a just punishment onto those who deny Him and ignore His commands. Nahum 1:2, Isaiah 1:24, Romans 1:18

2/ The Lord has kept out of world affairs and allowed people to follow their own desires. This is our free will choice. Isaiah 64:7, Eccl. 8:5-7, Psalms 89:46, 1 Thess. 4:6-8

3/ God has a plan and all that is prophesied will come to pass at its appointed time. Isaiah 46:10, Psalms 33:10-11

4/ The Lord springs into action! Haggai 2:21-22, Amos 5:9, Joel 2:11, Psalms 144:5-6

5/ This event is NOT the Return, the Lord stays in His sanctuary. Psalm 102:19-20, Isa 60:1-3

6/ The great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times throughout the Bible, the Day of punishment on the nations, triggered by an attack on the State of Israel. Psalms 83:1-18, Habakkuk 3:12, Isaiah 34:1-5

7/ The only logical explanation for a worldwide fire, is a sunstrike Coronal Mass Ejection. This is confirmed by Isaiah 30:26 and Malachi 4:1. A CME of unprecedented magnitude will strike the earth, the mass of superheated hydrogen plasma will fulfil all the prophesied effects: in the sky, heat, smoke, electrical, volcanic, earthquakes and the loss of our modern infrastructure. Deut. 32:22 & 34-35, Ezekiel 21:10, Revelation 6:12-17

Douggg · Sep 9, 2020

keras said:
6/ The great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times throughout the Bible, the Day of punishment on the nations, triggered by an attack on the State of Israel. Psalms 83:1-18, Habakkuk 3:12, Isaiah 34:1-5

The Day of the Lord begins with that transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:3-4 and continues into eternity, no end of the Day of the Lord.

keras · Sep 9, 2020

Douggg said:
The Day of the Lord begins with that transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:3-4 and continues into eternity, no end of the Day of the Lord.

This theory is not supported by scripture and your 'chart' is pure speculation.
We are plainly told that the Day of the Lord's wrath in the Sixth Seal. Revelation 6:12-17
The Millennium, commencing after Jesus Returns, is God's 'day' of rest for the earth.

There is no such thing as a Church 'rapture to heaven', or a 'false Messianic age'. You are a fiction and fable promoter.

keras · Sep 9, 2020

Trump nominated for Nobel Prize for UAE-Israel deal
"For his merit, I think he has done more trying to create peace between nations than most other Peace Prize nominees," says Christian Tybring-Gjedde, a member of the Norwegian parliament.
Ref: Israel Hayom.

keras · Sep 10, 2020

Sitrep, The Holy Land:
People are becoming more and more apprehensive about the future, as we experience a proliferation of natural disasters, with increasing political and economic problems, coupled with shortages of food and resources, mostly due to overpopulation.

But, the most obvious and the prophesied flash point of danger is the Middle East. The very existence of the State of Israel in their midst is an anathema to all the Islamic peoples. Psalm 83 lists the origins of those people who will conspire to ‘wipe out Israel as a nation’. When their attack commences, God will then answer the prayer of Psalm 83:13-18 Scatter them, my God, like thistledown, as a fire raging through the forest. Terrify them with Your storm winds, let them suffer disgrace and perish.

Many prophecies state how the Lord will act on this Day of His vengeance and wrath:
Micah 4:11-12 But now, many nations are massed against you, they say; Let Zion suffer, we will gloat over her downfall. They do not know God’s purpose – He has gathered them as sheaves for the threshing. Matthew 3:12

Psalm 37:13-15 The Lord will laugh at the wicked, their judgement is coming. They have prepared their weapons, but their swords will pierce their own hearts.

Isaiah 66:15-16 See: The Lord is coming in fire, bringing His retribution and anger. He will judge with fire and sword to test all mankind. All the wicked will die.

Deuteronomy 32:41-42 I will sharpen My flashing sword and take vengeance on those who hate Me. Nahum 1:2

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all evildoers will be as stubble, destroyed in a fiery blaze. 2 Peter3:7, Hebrews 10:27

Isaiah 30:26-33 The sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness. On that Day He will protect and save His people. See; the Lord Himself comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy. With fire, He sieves the nations for destruction. Isaiah 63:1-6, Rev. 6:12-17 Ref: REB, some verses condensed.

There are many other Bible passages that describe this Day. What we can establish from them is;

1/ It is this event that takes people unawares – that ‘comes as a thief’. Much later, for the glorious Return of Jesus, we are given the exact time from certain events.

2/ It will be a worldwide event, of 24-36 hours duration. Isaiah 29:5-6, Psalm 50:1-4

3/ The Lord will actually cause fire to destroy His enemies, by the means of a CME sunstrike. Their own weapons will contribute to their destruction, the heat flash and the intense electromagnetic pulse will make rockets and explosives detonate on the ground. Psalm 7:12-16, Joel 3:4

4/ His Righteous people will be kept safe and in a short time; Isaiah 29:17, they will gather and settle in the new country of Beulah: Isaiah 62:4, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 31:7-14, Ezekiel 34:11-31

Jamdoc · Sep 12, 2020

Lost4words said:
And i think the opposite

You must be in a different universe than me then, because sin and death still exist in this world. Are you typing to me from eternity? The internet there can cross time?

Jamdoc · Sep 12, 2020

keras said:
Sitrep, The Holy Land:
People are becoming more and more apprehensive about the future, as we experience a proliferation of natural disasters, with increasing political and economic problems, coupled with shortages of food and resources, mostly due to overpopulation.

But, the most obvious and the prophesied flash point of danger is the Middle East. The very existence of the State of Israel in their midst is an anathema to all the Islamic peoples. Psalm 83 lists the origins of those people who will conspire to ‘wipe out Israel as a nation’. When their attack commences, God will then answer the prayer of Psalm 83:13-18 Scatter them, my God, like thistledown, as a fire raging through the forest. Terrify them with Your storm winds, let them suffer disgrace and perish.

Many prophecies state how the Lord will act on this Day of His vengeance and wrath:
Micah 4:11-12 But now, many nations are massed against you, they say; Let Zion suffer, we will gloat over her downfall. They do not know God’s purpose – He has gathered them as sheaves for the threshing. Matthew 3:12

Psalm 37:13-15 The Lord will laugh at the wicked, their judgement is coming. They have prepared their weapons, but their swords will pierce their own hearts.

Isaiah 66:15-16 See: The Lord is coming in fire, bringing His retribution and anger. He will judge with fire and sword to test all mankind. All the wicked will die.

Deuteronomy 32:41-42 I will sharpen My flashing sword and take vengeance on those who hate Me. Nahum 1:2

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all evildoers will be as stubble, destroyed in a fiery blaze. 2 Peter3:7, Hebrews 10:27

Isaiah 30:26-33 The sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness. On that Day He will protect and save His people. See; the Lord Himself comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy. With fire, He sieves the nations for destruction. Isaiah 63:1-6, Rev. 6:12-17 Ref: REB, some verses condensed.

There are many other Bible passages that describe this Day. What we can establish from them is;

1/ It is this event that takes people unawares – that ‘comes as a thief’. Much later, for the glorious Return of Jesus, we are given the exact time from certain events.

2/ It will be a worldwide event, of 24-36 hours duration. Isaiah 29:5-6, Psalm 50:1-4

3/ The Lord will actually cause fire to destroy His enemies, by the means of a CME sunstrike. Their own weapons will contribute to their destruction, the heat flash and the intense electromagnetic pulse will make rockets and explosives detonate on the ground. Psalm 7:12-16, Joel 3:4

4/ His Righteous people will be kept safe and in a short time; Isaiah 29:17, they will gather and settle in the new country of Beulah: Isaiah 62:4, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 31:7-14, Ezekiel 34:11-31

There's a few problems with your analysis.
1. explain Revelation 6:12-17 paralleling Matthew 24:29-31 (which itself parallels 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) , if those parallels all align as they appear to, that's a resurrection of the dead in Christ, just before the wrath of God. (which is declared at Revelation 6:17) . This same event also seems to be paralleled in Revelation 14:14-20 (signifying along with the 144,000 showing up in Revelation 7, and Revelation 14, that that this is the same events from Revelation 13-20 as Revelation 6-11).
2. If that's the beginning of the wrath of God, then it is longer than 1 24 hour day, because of the 5th trumpet judgement lasting 5 months.

You can't have 1 single 24 hour wrath of God day, because of the 5th trumpet lasting 12 months, unless you decide to throw all chronology regarding the seals and trumpets out the window.

keras · Sep 13, 2020

Jamdoc said:
There's a few problems with your analysis.
1. explain Revelation 6:12-17 paralleling Matthew 24:29-31 (which itself parallels 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) , if those parallels all align as they appear to, that's a resurrection of the dead in Christ, just before the wrath of God. (which is declared at Revelation 6:17) .

The Sixth Seal event is not parallel to the Return of Jesus. Two events, years apart.

Jamdoc said:
This same event also seems to be paralleled in Revelation 14:14-20

Yes, Rev 14:14-20 is another of the 100 plus prophesies about the Lord's Day of fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal.

Jamdoc said:
2. If that's the beginning of the wrath of God, then it is longer than 1 24 hour day, because of the 5th trumpet judgement lasting 5 months.

The Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath is not part of the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. Don't mix them up, the Bible doesn't.

My analysis of Bible Prophecy is confirmed by the current state of the world, esp in the Middle East area.
People are now saying: Peace and the settlement of differences between Arabs and Israel, at last! But Iran is the 'elephant in the room' and as is prophesied, they and their allies will soon try to do what they threatened for so long; to destroy Israel.
My post #54 gives just a few of the many prophesies that describe the result of that attack.

Jamdoc · Sep 13, 2020

keras said:
The Sixth Seal event is not parallel to the Return of Jesus. Two events, years apart.

Yes, Rev 14:14-20 is another of the 100 plus prophesies about the Lord's Day of fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal.

The Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath is not part of the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. Don't mix them up, the Bible doesn't.

My analysis of Bible Prophecy is confirmed by the current state of the world, esp in the Middle East area.
People are now saying: Peace and the settlement of differences between Arabs and Israel, at last! But Iran is the 'elephant in the room' and as is prophesied, they and their allies will soon try to do what they threatened for so long; to destroy Israel.
My post #54 gives just a few of the many prophesies that describe the result of that attack.

I'm not mixing them up, you are.
The great tribulations end at the 6th seal, as Jesus said that the sun and moon darken immediately after the tribulations, as in, this event cuts those days short, and Jesus describes that as the sign of His coming in the clouds and gathering up believers.
Revelation 6 at the sixth seal shows the exact same signs, has the lamb (Jesus) sitting on a throne, that's who everyone's terrified of, Jesus sitting on the throne. He's not on a horse, but He is visible in the sky. As Jesus said in Matthew 24, the son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory. Visibly sitting on a throne. Everyone NOT His at that time is terrified and trying to hide and asking for the rocks to fall on them to hide them from he who sitteth on the throne.
They then declare in Revelation 6:17, that the great day of His wrath has come.
This is a clear scripture marking the end of the Grerat Tribulations, and the beginning of the wrath of God.

keras · Sep 13, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I'm not mixing them up, you are.
The great tribulations end at the 6th seal, as Jesus said that the sun and moon darken immediately after the tribulations, as in, this event cuts those days short, and Jesus describes that as the sign of His coming in the clouds and gathering up believers.
Revelation 6 at the sixth seal shows the exact same signs, has the lamb (Jesus) sitting on a throne, that's who everyone's terrified of, Jesus sitting on the throne. He's not on a horse, but He is visible in the sky. As Jesus said in Matthew 24, the son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory. Visibly sitting on a throne. Everyone NOT His at that time is terrified and trying to hide and asking for the rocks to fall on them to hide them from he who sitteth on the throne.
They then declare in Revelation 6:17, that the great day of His wrath has come.
This is a clear scripture marking the end of the Grerat Tribulations, and the beginning of the wrath of God.

The sequence in Revelation of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls is set. Obviously the Seals of a scroll must be removed before it can be unrolled.
Rev 6:17 does not say the Lord will be seen by anyone on that Day. The people just call out as they dive for cover, they know what is happening is from God.

Your premise of that happening at Jesus Return is error and simply does not fit with any prophecy actually about the Return.

Jamdoc · Sep 13, 2020

keras said:
The sequence in Revelation of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls is set. Obviously the Seals of a scroll must be removed before it can be unrolled.
Rev 6:17 does not say the Lord will be seen by anyone on that Day. The people just call out as they dive for cover, they know what is happening is from God.

Your premise of that happening at Jesus Return is error and simply does not fit with any prophecy actually about the Return.

Revelation 15-16 disagree

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

What they see is someone sitting on a throne. Prior to that, they wouldn't know WHAT was the cause, or if they suspected it was "a" god, they wouldn't know which one. Many people consider all religions phony and if they even thought about following one because of signs coming true they'd either homogenize all the world's religions into one, (as is the aim of all popes since John Paul II) or wouldn't know which one is "real" because they consider all religions to be equally valid.

They need to see to believe, and be able to recognize Jesus somehow, and know He is the lamb of God.

You're so hung up on the "day of the lord" being 1 literal 24 hour day that you ignore all signs contrary, like the length of the 5th trumpet and you refuse to call that God's wrath even though it comes from God, not from men (the difference between God's wrath and the tribulations), and comes after people on the earth confirm that when they see the cosmological signs and see Him that sitteth on the throne , that this is the great day of His wrath.

Here, consider this.
Isaiah 63:1-4

63 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Now I don't think He means literally 24 hours, or 360 days. It's figurative language, but it at least needs to last 5 months because of the 5th trumpet giving us that timing.

The reason why I say the bowl judgements don't necessarily all come after the trumpets is because afther the 7th trumpet is the declaration of the kingdom and then goes to final judgement. A similar declaration happens after the 7th vial. The 144,000 are in chapters 7 and 14, and chapster 14 shows Jesus coming in the clouds and harvesting the world and beginning His wrath, just like after the 6th seal.

IT's clearly 2 parallels rather than 1 continuity. There's too much alike and the end of chapter 11 is pretty final sounding. You wouldn't declare that the kingdoms of the earth are become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ ... and then start nuking your new kingdom.

While they are saying Peace and Safety

Watching and Praying Always

Jesus I Trust In You

Jesus I Trust In You

Watching and Praying Always

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Watching and Praying Always

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Jesus I Trust In You

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Watching and Praying Always

Watching and Praying Always

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Watching and Praying Always

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Watching and Praying Always

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