THE SABBATH TRUTH!

pasifika · Sep 4, 2020

Studyman said:
What is Paul speaking to here in Rom. 3?

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Justified from what? Are we not "justified" because we have transgressed God's Commandments and need atonement?

According to Moses, when a man sins how was his sin atoned for? Please answer these questions.

When a man sinned, did Moses tell them to "keep the 10 Commandments" and their sins are forgiven? Are these the "works of the Law" for atonement?

When a man sinned, did Moses tell this man to"Love your neighbor as yourself," and your sins will be forgiven?

When a man sins did Moses tell the man to observe the Feast of Unleavened bread and their sins are forgiven?

No my friend, Moses said if a man sins he MUST go to a Levite Priest, separated from all other peoples of the world, and this Levite Priest will perform sacrificial, Ceremonial "Works" and then your sins are forgiven.

Lev. 4:14 When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation. 15 And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD. 16 And the priest that is anointed (Exclusively Levite) shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:

17 And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail.

18 And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

19 And he shall take all his fat from him, and burn it upon the altar.

20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

So my friend, according to the Word of God which became Flesh, it isn't the 10 Commandments that were given by law for justification, but the Levitical Priesthood that the Bible says changed.

This is true.

Lev. 19:16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Duet. 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

This Gospel was taught to Israel, but they didn't mix Faith/belief with the teaching.

Duet. 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

And again;

Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Please answer my questions. Is there another gospel taught to us and them?

Faith is also belief yes? Consider Paul's teaching here.

Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, (mans ways) but after the Spirit. (God's ways)

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Who is the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus? Is it not God HIS Father? So what is the LAW of the spirit of Life? And what is the LAW of Sin and death.

So Paul is saying if I Walk in the LAW of the Spirit of Life that is in Christ Jesus, I can be free from the Law of Sin, which is, the soul that sins shall die.

So then when John tells us to "Walk even as He walked" that would be walking in the Law of the Spirit of Life which was in the Christ.

How do we know Abraham believed God? Gen. 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

According to Scriptures God Separated Levi from all the peoples of the world, and gave Him a Priesthood Covenant on Israel's behalf, specifically for the purpose of administrating God's Laws, and provide for the atonement of sins. Paul said this Law was "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham.

Here is the God of the Bible talking about His Covenant with Levi.

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (Ex. 23:26)

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

So what did God do?

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levites who caused god's People to go astray)he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

God gave Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob a Covenant. This Covenant included God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

When God heard Abraham's children cry out in Egypt, He remembered this Covenant.

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

But Israel made a golden calf and broke this Covenant. God almost wiped them out.

Ex. 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

But Moses persuaded to God to give them another chance.

Ex. 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

This is when God "ADDED" His Covenant with Levi specifically for the atonement of the sins of His People, "because of transgressions as Paul says in Gal. 3:19.

So yes, there was a "Law of Works" for atonement given by Covenant to Levi on Israel's behalf, which was separate from God's Covenant with Abraham given to Israel which was a Law of Faith.

Thanks studyman, you know also the gospel was preached to them (Sinai) Hebrews 3&4 just as did to Abraham, Noah etc..and how are sins are atoned for in the Gospel? Isn’t through the blood of Christ?

Of course Under the Sinai covenant an animal sacrifice was required for sins BUT it can never take those sins away from anyone Hebrews 10:4, so people will Always committed the same sins even though animals sacrifices were offered for their sins...BUt in the Gospel We sprinkled by the blood of Christ for our sins to be received by Faith Romans 3:25.
As I have mentioned that the same Gospel were preached to them in Sinai the same one we have today and in the same way their sins are atone for according to the Gospel..( Through the blood of Christ to received by Faith).

yes, God made a covenant with Abraham and his descendants (Covenant of Promise) and is Not the same covenant in which God made with those who came out of Egypt even though those who came out of Egypt are also Abraham descendants..Deuteronomy 5:3 “ It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant BUT with us who are alive here today...
So the Abraham covenant has those commandments as those in the Gospel (love God &Others)

According to Hebrews 7:11 the levitical priesthood was established in the order of Aaron.(Sinai)
But that priesthood did not achieve perfection required by the law therefore a need for new priesthood to established in the order of Melchizedek Not Aaron..

Studyman · Sep 4, 2020

pasifika said:
Thanks studyman, you know also the gospel was preached to them (Sinai) Hebrews 3&4 just as did to Abraham, Noah etc..and how are sins are atoned for in the Gospel? Isn’t through the blood of Christ?

Of course, that is what the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works" pointed to.

Of course Under the Sinai covenant an animal sacrifice was required for sins BUT it can never take those sins away from anyone Hebrews 10:4, so people will Always committed the same sins even though animals sacrifices were offered for their sins...

This is true, nevertheless, between Moses and John the Baptist there was no other way for sins to be atoned for except by these "Works of the Law". This is simply a Biblical Fact.

BUt in the Gospel We sprinkled by the blood of Christ for our sins to be received by Faith Romans 3:25.
As I have mentioned that the same Gospel were preached to them in Sinai the same one we have today and in the same way their sins are atone for according to the Gospel..( Through the blood of Christ to received by Faith).

Not the same way. To believe this one must completely ignore and omit the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf. We know it foreshadowed Christ's Sacrifice, but whether they knew or not is irrelevant, they were still under the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for atonement. There was no other way until the Seed came.

If you can find another way given by God for the atonement of sins between Moses and John the Baptist, please provide the Holy Scriptures.

yes, God made a covenant with Abraham and his descendants (Covenant of Promise) and is Not the same covenant in which God made with those who came out of Egypt even though those who came out of Egypt are also Abraham descendants..Deuteronomy 5:3 “ It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant BUT with us who are alive here today...
So the Abraham covenant has those commandments as those in the Gospel (love God &Others)

And why was there people "alive today" in Duet. 5? Didn't Israel break the Commandment of God and worship a golden calf? Isn't the wages of this action death? How is it there were still Israelite's alive in Duet. 5? Was it not because God "ADDED" a Priesthood to provide for the atonement of their sins?

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

No, the sacrificial Laws were "ADDED" because of transgressions.

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

So didn't God separate Levi from the other peoples of the world, and give them an exclusive Covenant specifically to provide for the atonement of the sins of these people?

Ex. 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Where is the Atonement Laws? They had not yet been "ADDED".

It was the Atonement of the Levite Priests God placed over them that is the very reason why they were alive in Duet. 5.

Just try and rid your mind of all the "other voices" in the religions of the land, and look for yourself.

According to Hebrews 7:11 the levitical priesthood was established in the order of Aaron.(Sinai)
But that priesthood did not achieve perfection required by the law therefore a need for new priesthood to established in the order of Melchizedek Not Aaron..

Absolutely. That is what is written. The Levite Priests were supposed to hand over the Priesthood to Jesus, a Non-Levite, "after those days". And John the Baptist, a Levite Priest, did exactly that. But the High Priest didn't because they had corrupted the Priesthood as the Christ tells us in His Word.

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his (God's) mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

So what did the Christ do?

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests who led God's People Astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Uriah123 · Sep 4, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi all friendly discussion please.

Some try to claim that the Sabbath given at creation is a claim that is not true but is that the truth according to the scriptures? I would like to examine this in detail to show why the Sabbath was indeed given to mankind at creation and this was the reason God made the Sabbath.

So the question we are considering here is...

1. WAS THE SABBATH GIVEN TO MANKIND AT CREATION?
2. WHY DID GOD MAKE THE SABBATH?

..................

Let's start with the scriptures showing when God made the seventh day Sabbath and see why it was made and who it was made for and connect all the scriptures starting in GENESIS...

WHERE IS THE SABBATH IN GENESIS 2:1-3?

GOD's 4th Commandment is refering to GENESIS 2:1-3 in EXODUS 20:8-11.

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

Links to God’s 4th Commandment

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

Look at the HEBREW WORD meanings...

The Hebrew word for RESTED used here is שׁבת; shâbath (H7673) which is the root word of Sabbath (noun). The Hebrew word for RESTED is the verb of doing or "KEEPING THE SABBATH" It's meaning is; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The HEBREW Word for shabbâth is the noun or discription of what is being kept. It's meaning is the intermission between SABBATHS or RESTS (H7673) or the continuation meaing from one SABBATH REST to the Next SABBATH REST or EVERY SABBATH REST. It's application is in God's 4th commandment EXODUS 20:8 is to REMEMBER [EVERY] Sabbath [shabbâth H7676] and points back to creation with "REMEMBER".

In the 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11; v11 tells us the ORIGINS of God's 4th commandments Sabbath is in reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 and the reason why it is given as a memorial of Greation to whorship God as the creator of Heaven and Earth.

...............

Note here in GENESIS 2:1-3 that it was in the creation week when God had finished his creation in six days that He rested on the SEVENTH DAY of the week from all His Work that he had made and He "SET APART" the seventh day of the week and "BLESSED" the seventh day" and made the seventh day a "HOLY DAY" of rest. The seventh day SABBATH therefore according to the scriptures is "GOD'S REST"

The reason why the SABBATH was made was not because God needed rest but for mankind to remember and celebrate God as the God of creation. JESUS in His own Words as the God of creation says this in His own words here...

MARK 2:27 [27], And he said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN and not man for the Sabbath.

The Greek word used here for MAN is G444 ἄνθρωπος; anthrōpos From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance ; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.

JESUS tells has that the Sabbath was made for mankind on the "SEVENTH DAY" of the creation week. JESUS is the LORD of the SABBATH *MARK 2:28 and commands His people to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath which is the "SEVENTH DAY" of the week and to keep the "SEVENTH DAY" of the week as a "HOLY DAY OF REST" as a memorial of creation and a celebration of JESUS as the God of creation in EXODUS 20:8-11. Lets look at the links in God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments to GENESIS 2:1-3 of when the seventh day Sabbath was created and link this back to the new testament scriptures...

God's 4th commandments points back to GENESIS 2:1-3 and creation...

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> [Because JESUS made it a Holy day of rest for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day] [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God [This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK]: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

The reason for the Sabbath Commandment is to REMEMBER the God of creation. He rested on the SEVENTH DAY of the WEEK, BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK and made it a HOLY DAY that no work is to be done. v11 Refers back to Genesis 2:1-3 and the origin of the Sabbath. v8 shows that this commandment is a MEMORIAL of creation v11 [the reason for the 4th commandment].

Summary of the above is simply that GENESIS 2:1-3 is the origin of when God made the Sabbath for all mankind according to the words of JESUS. RESTING on the Sabbath from our work is SABBATH KEEPING or how the Sabbath is kept. As we from the heart obey Gods' 4th commandment we enter into Gods' REST of the "seventh day Sabbath"

GENESIS 2:1-3 is INDEED the ORIGIN of the SABBATH (First Sabbath). It is the SEVENTH DAY of creation that God blessed, set apart and made a HOLY DAY for all mankind. Nearly every section of GENESIS 2:1-3 is repeated in EXODUS 20:8-11 of God's 4th commandment as the reason why we are to REMEMBER God's Sabbath.

This links directly into the new testament scriptures of believing the gospel of our Lord JESUS Christ here...

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD enter into that rest which God's WORD defines as the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is GOD'S REST!

The scriptures show that God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH according to the very words of JESUS was made for mankind at the seventh day of the creation week. While mankind was made on the sixth day of the creation week. ADAM and EVE where the first to keep God's SABBATH.

God bless.

I fully support non-religious sub-blue laws. Sub-blue laws are not blue laws. Details matter. It will show up on www.duckduckgo.com but not necessarily bing or google.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 5, 2020

Uriah123 said:
I fully support non-religious sub-blue laws. Sub-blue laws are not blue laws. Details matter. It will show up on www.duckduckgo.com but not necessarily bing or google.

Hi Uriah123,

Welcome here and nice to meet you. I have heard of the Sunday blue laws which are still on the books BTW and can be enforced at any time. I have not heard about the "sub-blue" laws before though. Thanks for sharing.

God bless

pasifika · Sep 5, 2020

Studyman said:
Of course, that is what the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works" pointed to.

This is true, nevertheless, between Moses and John the Baptist there was no other way for sins to be atoned for except by these "Works of the Law". This is simply a Biblical Fact.

Not the same way. To believe this one must completely ignore and omit the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf. We know it foreshadowed Christ's Sacrifice, but whether they knew or not is irrelevant, they were still under the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for atonement. There was no other way until the Seed came.

If you can find another way given by God for the atonement of sins between Moses and John the Baptist, please provide the Holy Scriptures.

And why was there people "alive today" in Duet. 5? Didn't Israel break the Commandment of God and worship a golden calf? Isn't the wages of this action death? How is it there were still Israelite's alive in Duet. 5? Was it not because God "ADDED" a Priesthood to provide for the atonement of their sins?

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

No, the sacrificial Laws were "ADDED" because of transgressions.

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

So didn't God separate Levi from the other peoples of the world, and give them an exclusive Covenant specifically to provide for the atonement of the sins of these people?

Ex. 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Where is the Atonement Laws? They had not yet been "ADDED".

It was the Atonement of the Levite Priests God placed over them that is the very reason why they were alive in Duet. 5.

Just try and rid your mind of all the "other voices" in the religions of the land, and look for yourself.

Absolutely. That is what is written. The Levite Priests were supposed to hand over the Priesthood to Jesus, a Non-Levite, "after those days". And John the Baptist, a Levite Priest, did exactly that. But the High Priest didn't because they had corrupted the Priesthood as the Christ tells us in His Word.

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his (God's) mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

So what did the Christ do?

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests who led God's People Astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hello, so if the levitical priesthood of “works” were pointed to Christ blood atonement then it already done. Christ has already fulfilled that atonement for sins once and for All, so the levitical priesthood of work is no longer...

if Sins were atone by animal blood (“Works”) between Moses and John the Babtist then how are sins atoned for from Adam to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc?

Also the levitical priesthood wasn’t established until the Sinai covenant since it was through Aaron that priesthood established.

The atonement of sins was always through the blood of Christ from the beginning (there was a lamb slain in the beginning when Adam and Eve fell as pointed to Christ) and before that atonement of sins is done at Calvary, the proclamation of that message regarding Christ and God’s acts of love for fallen man is preached (the Good News). And those who heard and believe in the Good news there sins were forgiven because of their Faith...there wasn’t needed an animal sacrifice.

Acts 16:31...Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you’ll be save...( the Gospel!)

In Deuteronomy 5:3, Moses is speaking directly to the assembly Not to us today..( those who are alive here today) means at the time Moses spoke those words..

Yes those whom God made that covenant with in Sinai broke that covenant and there wasn’t any scriptures stated that the same Sinai covenant be re-established BUT a NEW Covenant is being Promised Not the same covenant as the Sinai covenant Jeremiah 31..

I think that is a great mistake made by Christian’s Now is to follow a covenant (Sinai covenant) that wasn’t for them But Only for those that came out of Egypt in which a covenant is Obsolete because those whom God made that covenant with broke it.

Studyman · Sep 6, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello, so if the levitical priesthood of “works” were pointed to Christ blood atonement then it already done. Christ has already fulfilled that atonement for sins once and for All, so the levitical priesthood of work is no longer...

Keep in mind here that I am talking about what the Scriptures say, not the religious philosophy of religious man. There is no "IF" the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works" point to Christ.

Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

if Sins were atone by animal blood (“Works”) between Moses and John the Babtist then how are sins atoned for from Adam to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc?

Sin's were not atoned by animal blood. They were atoned by the Levite Priest performing "works" of the Law.. I could kill a goat and have it for dinner, there is no "LAW" which says my sins are atoned for by doing this. Remember, I'm speaking to what the Christ of the Bible actually had written, not a doctrine or tradition of religious men..

Lev. 4:34 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:

35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

In the Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi on Mt. Sinai, only a Levite could partake of these Priesthood duties. Levi wasn't even born in Abraham's Time, therefore, Abraham's sins were justified "Apart" from this Law.

Also the levitical priesthood wasn’t established until the Sinai covenant since it was through Aaron that priesthood established.

Exactly. It was established by Covenant with Levi, on Israel's behalf, on Mt. Sinai, "because of Transgression".

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (Ex. 32:26, look it up for yourself in your own Bible)

The atonement of sins was always through the blood of Christ from the beginning (there was a lamb slain in the beginning when Adam and Eve fell as pointed to Christ) and before that atonement of sins is done at Calvary, the proclamation of that message regarding Christ and God’s acts of love for fallen man is preached (the Good News). And those who heard and believe in the Good news there sins were forgiven because of their Faith...there wasn’t needed an animal sacrifice.

Nevertheless, there was no other way for sins to be forgiven, from Moses to John the Baptist, than through these "Works" of the Levitical Priesthood. I asked you to provide any scriptural evidence to the contrary, and you have only provided your own words.

Again, I'm talking about the Holy Scriptures here, what they say, not was some religious philosophy of man.

Acts 16:31...Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you’ll be save...( the Gospel!)

In Deuteronomy 5:3, Moses is speaking directly to the assembly Not to us today..( those who are alive here today) means at the time Moses spoke those words..

Exactly. So how is it these men, who spit in God's Face, completely rejected HIS most basic commandment regarding the religious practice of the heathens HE just destroyed, were still alive? God had already forgiven them while they were yet in sin (Egypt) He brought them out of the bondage of sin and deception. He told them to trust and obey Him and they would be spared the curses of Egypt.

But they threw it all away. They broke God's Covenant.

So how is it they were still alive?

Because God "ADDED" the Levitical Priesthood, "till the Seed should come", to provide for their Atonement as the Word's of the very God you claim to "believe" tells you in the Scriptures I posted. So the question is, do you believe in this Christ, or another??

Yes those whom God made that covenant with in Sinai broke that covenant and there wasn’t any scriptures stated that the same Sinai covenant be re-established BUT a NEW Covenant is being Promised Not the same covenant as the Sinai covenant Jeremiah 31..

Again, I know what the religious philosophy of the religions of the world preach. I'm not talking about religions here. I'm speaking about what the Scriptures actually say.

Israel broke the Covenant of Abraham God gave them by building a golden calf..

This is symbolized by the following.

Ex. 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

The Covenant Law was broken. What did Moses do?

Ex. 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

So God Separated Levi unto Himself, from among all other people of the World, and gave them a Priesthood to provide for the atonement of sins "Till the Seed should come".

But what happened to the Laws they broke? Did God make for them "NEW LAWS" as you imply? Was it now lawful to create and worship an idol?

Again, I must go by what the Scriptures actually say.

Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

The Word's that Jesus walked in.

In Jer. 31, there is not one mention of God changing, altering, or otherwise re-writing His Commandments that Israel broke.

In HIS Promised New Covenant, He only mentions the manner in which His Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of these Laws are atoned for. No mention of God creating new laws at all. Look for yourself.

Again, I am going by what the Christ Himself defined HIS Own New Covenant as. I know there are religious men, who come in Christ's Name, who do not preach these truths. Jesus said so. My point here is to show what the Scriptures actually say, So we may hear them and believe them.

I think that is a great mistake made by Christian’s Now is to follow a covenant (Sinai covenant) that wasn’t for them But Only for those that came out of Egypt in which a covenant is Obsolete because those whom God made that covenant with broke it.

Caleb didn't break it. Joshua didn't break it. Are these not examples of Faith written for us?

The great mistake man makes is shown us in the very first deception. Listening to the "other voice" in the land, as opposed to listening to God's inspired Word..

Paul says flat out that the very reason these Word's were written was for our admonition, and for our examples. But You are preaching that they were only written for the people of that time.

So here I am, in the very same place Eve was. Do i listen to the Holy Scriptures and believe them, or do i listen to you?

See what I mean?

pasifika · Sep 6, 2020

Studyman said:
Keep in mind here that I am talking about what the Scriptures say, not the religious philosophy of religious man. There is no "IF" the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works" point to Christ.

Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Sin's were not atoned by animal blood. They were atoned by the Levite Priest performing "works" of the Law.. I could kill a goat and have it for dinner, there is no "LAW" which says my sins are atoned for by doing this. Remember, I'm speaking to what the Christ of the Bible actually had written, not a doctrine or tradition of religious men..

Lev. 4:34 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:

35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

In the Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi on Mt. Sinai, only a Levite could partake of these Priesthood duties. Levi wasn't even born in Abraham's Time, therefore, Abraham's sins were justified "Apart" from this Law.

Exactly. It was established by Covenant with Levi, on Israel's behalf, on Mt. Sinai, "because of Transgression".

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (Ex. 32:26, look it up for yourself in your own Bible)

Nevertheless, there was no other way for sins to be forgiven, from Moses to John the Baptist, than through these "Works" of the Levitical Priesthood. I asked you to provide any scriptural evidence to the contrary, and you have only provided your own words.

Again, I'm talking about the Holy Scriptures here, what they say, not was some religious philosophy of man.

Exactly. So how is it these men, who spit in God's Face, completely rejected HIS most basic commandment regarding the religious practice of the heathens HE just destroyed, were still alive? God had already forgiven them while they were yet in sin (Egypt) He brought them out of the bondage of sin and deception. He told them to trust and obey Him and they would be spared the curses of Egypt.

But they threw it all away. They broke God's Covenant.

So how is it they were still alive?

Because God "ADDED" the Levitical Priesthood, "till the Seed should come", to provide for their Atonement as the Word's of the very God you claim to "believe" tells you in the Scriptures I posted. So the question is, do you believe in this Christ, or another??

Again, I know what the religious philosophy of the religions of the world preach. I'm not talking about religions here. I'm speaking about what the Scriptures actually say.

Israel broke the Covenant of Abraham God gave them by building a golden calf..

This is symbolized by the following.

Ex. 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

The Covenant Law was broken. What did Moses do?

Ex. 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

So God Separated Levi unto Himself, from among all other people of the World, and gave them a Priesthood to provide for the atonement of sins "Till the Seed should come".

But what happened to the Laws they broke? Did God make for them "NEW LAWS" as you imply? Was it now lawful to create and worship an idol?

Again, I must go by what the Scriptures actually say.

Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

The Word's that Jesus walked in.

In Jer. 31, there is not one mention of God changing, altering, or otherwise re-writing His Commandments that Israel broke.

In HIS Promised New Covenant, He only mentions the manner in which His Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of these Laws are atoned for. No mention of God creating new laws at all. Look for yourself.

Again, I am going by what the Christ Himself defined HIS Own New Covenant as. I know there are religious men, who come in Christ's Name, who do not preach these truths. Jesus said so. My point here is to show what the Scriptures actually say, So we may hear them and believe them.

Caleb didn't break it. Joshua didn't break it. Are these not examples of Faith written for us?

The great mistake man makes is shown us in the very first deception. Listening to the "other voice" in the land, as opposed to listening to God's inspired Word..

Paul says flat out that the very reason these Word's were written was for our admonition, and for our examples. But You are preaching that they were only written for the people of that time.

So here I am, in the very same place Eve was. Do i listen to the Holy Scriptures and believe them, or do i listen to you?

See what I mean?

Thank you Studyman, reading your post made me comes up with these couple of Questions;
1) How is Abraham sins justified apart from works of the law Through ( Levite priesthood)? Was that a different way other than the Levite works established in Sinai etc for the forgiveness of sins? This is important...

2) How can the Israel broke Abraham covenant since they had a different covenant (Sinai covenant) they had from the covenant God made with Abraham? You know the Sinai covenant is different from Abraham covenant?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 6, 2020

pasifika said:
Thank you Studyman, reading your post made me comes up with these couple of Questions;
1) How is Abraham sins justified apart from works of the law Through ( Levite priesthood)? Was that a different way other than the Levite works established in Sinai etc for the forgiveness of sins? This is important...

2) How can the Israel broke Abraham covenant since they had a different covenant (Sinai covenant) they had from the covenant God made with Abraham? You know the Sinai covenant is different from Abraham covenant?

Hi pasifika, I think our conversation got side-tracked a little but continuing on from our conversation did you get a chance to consider post # 1815 linked and consider some of the scriptures provided in that post and the question asked?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 6, 2020

Bob S said:
Was Abraham saved by faith or his obedience to the law? Are you saved because of your faith or because you keep the Sabbath?

You just had to link those two verses even though they have no correlation.

Abrahams faith lead to obeying God *GENESIS 26:5 just as it does to those who believe God's Word in the new covenant. We do not abolish God's law through faith according to the scripture, we establish it *ROMANS 3:31. We do not love God by not doing what he asks us to do, we love God by keeping his commandments *JOHN 14:15.

JAMES 2:18-26
[18], Yes, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21], Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son on the altar?
[22], See you how faith worked with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[23], And the scripture was fulfilled which said, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[24], You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25], Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26], For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Hope this is helpful

LoveGodsWord · Sep 6, 2020

Uriah123 said:
I fully support non-religious sub-blue laws. Sub-blue laws are not blue laws. Details matter. It will show up on www.duckduckgo.com but not necessarily bing or google.

Can I ask you why you brought the sub blue laws up?

Bob S · Sep 7, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Abrahams faith lead to obeying God *GENESIS 26:5 just as it does to those who believe God's Word in the new covenant. We do not abolish God's law through faith according to the scripture, we establish it *ROMANS 3:31. We do not love God by not doing what he asks us to do, we love God by keeping his commandments *JOHN 14:15.

JAMES 2:18-26
[18], Yes, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21], Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son on the altar?
[22], See you how faith worked with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[23], And the scripture was fulfilled which said, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[24], You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25], Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26], For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Hope this is helpful

Not helpful at all LGW. You insist that Abraham had the laws that Israel had and you just mentioned adultery in another thread. You say Abraham's faith led him to obey God. Having a bunch of concubines is obeying the adultery law?

Then you quote James and try to make the point that James was referring to works of the Law when he stated faith without works is dead. James was not referring to works of the Law, he was referring to good deeds and that is what Jesus asks us to do. That is loving our fellow man. We believe in Jesus by faith and we love others as He loves us. Even then Isaiah writes: Isaiah 64:6
We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind. Our good deeds will not save us and neither will the works of the Law. But, of course, that is not what you are teaching.

pasifika · Sep 7, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi pasifika, I think our conversation got side-tracked a little but continuing on from our conversation did you get a chance to consider post # 1815 linked and consider some of the scriptures provided in that post and the question asked?

Hello LGW, I have considered your questions regarding animals sacrifices, earthly sanctuary, levitical priesthood in old covenant and they all pointed to Christ as the lamb of God, High Priest, and the temple ( we as well are the temple of God) and there is also a heavenly temple...

Also as you’ve have mentioned in that post ( #1815) the laws under the old covenant are “ Shadows Laws” and they are not the realities themselves Hebrews 10:1..
The realities however is found in Christ Colossians 2:17

Also the old covenant festivals, New moon, or Sabbath day(s) Are shadows of Christ..Col 2:16,17

LoveGodsWord · Sep 7, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello LGW, I have considered your questions regarding animals sacrifices, earthly sanctuary, levitical priesthood in old covenant and they all pointed to Christ as the lamb of God, High Priest, and the temple ( we as well are the temple of God) and there is also a heavenly temple...

Also as you’ve have mentioned in that post ( #1815) the laws under the old covenant are “ Shadows Laws” and they are not the realities themselves Hebrews 10:1..
The realities however is found in Christ Colossians 2:17

Also the old covenant festivals, New moon, or Sabbath day(s) Are shadows of Christ..Col 2:16,17

Well you nearly have it right pasifika good job for looking at those scriptures. You are correct but I want to ask you some more questions now for your consideration in regards to your last sentence which I believe scripture disagrees with so I want to provide some more scripture for your consideration as well. Let's recap a little so that we can re-post on what we agree on together now after our discussion which we did not agree on previously..

1. We both now agree that God's people in the old covenant are were saved in the same way that God's people before the old covenant and God's people after that old covenant in the new and that is by faith...

2. We both now agree that God's people in the old covenant when they broke anyone of God's 10 commandments received God's forgiveness through animal sacrifices and sin offerings...

3. We both no agree that the shadow laws in the old covenant according to HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9 and HEBREWS 10 are the laws of the Mosaic book of the old covenant for remission of sins and the ceremonial laws in relation to the Sanctuary service, Priesthood, animal sacrifices, feast days which are fulfilled in the new covenant.

3.a We do not agree that God's seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment was a Shadow of anything so we will look at this one now.

................

A few questions before we move on...

a. Do you agree with what we agree on as highlighted above which you disagreed with previously and what we currently disagree on as shown above?

b. Also, if you were previously wrong about point 1-3 above and now see why you were wrong and are now thankful to God that he has helped you here, do you think there could be a possibility that you could be wrong about the claims of God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments being a "shadow law"?

c. If there is the possibility that you could also be wrong about God's 4th commandment of the 10 Commandments just like the other sections above if you are wrong are you interested in to know if you are wrong so you can more perfectly follow JESUS?

Look forward to your reply.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 7, 2020

Bob S said:
Not helpful at all LGW. You insist that Abraham had the laws that Israel had and you just mentioned adultery in another thread. You say Abraham's faith led him to obey God. Having a bunch of concubines is obeying the adultery law?

Then you quote James and try to make the point that James was referring to works of the Law when he stated faith without works is dead. James was not referring to works of the Law, he was referring to good deeds and that is what Jesus asks us to do. That is loving our fellow man. We believe in Jesus by faith and we love others as He loves us. Even then Isaiah writes: Isaiah 64:6
We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind. Our good deeds will not save us and neither will the works of the Law. But, of course, that is not what you are teaching.

Not really Bob, I insisted on no such thing it is God's Word not my words that says that Abraham was saved by faith in JAMES 2:18-26 and it is God not me that says that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws in GENESIS 26:5. If you do not consider these scriptures helpful then that is between you and God as they are God's Words not mine. I did not say that Abraham never sinned Bob. As all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23. That is why we need God's salvation. Abraham sought God's forgiveness just like we must when we sin and sin is the transgression of God's law and not believing and following God's Word according to the scriptures *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 14:23.

pasifika · Sep 7, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Well you nearly have it right pasifika good job for looking at those scriptures. You are correct but I want to ask you some more questions now for your consideration in regards to your last sentence which I believe scripture disagrees with so I want to provide some more scripture for your consideration as well. Let's recap a little so that we can re-post on what we agree on together now after our discussion which we did not agree on previously..

1. We both now agree that God's people in the old covenant are were saved in the same way that God's people before the old covenant and God's people after that old covenant in the new and that is by faith...

2. We both now agree that God's people in the old covenant when they broke anyone of God's 10 commandments received God's forgiveness through animal sacrifices and sin offerings...

3. We both no agree that the shadow laws in the old covenant according to HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9 and HEBREWS 10 are the laws of the Mosaic book of the old covenant for remission of sins and the ceremonial laws in relation to the Sanctuary service, Priesthood, animal sacrifices, feast days which are fulfilled in the new covenant.

3.a We do not agree that God's seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment was a Shadow of anything so we will look at this one now.

................

A few questions before we move on...

a. Do you agree with what we agree on as highlighted above which you disagreed with previously and what we currently disagree on as shown above?

b. Also, if you were previously wrong about point 1-3 above and now see why you were wrong and are now thankful to God that he has helped you here, do you think there could be a possibility that you could be wrong about the claims of God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments being a "shadow law"?

c. If there is the possibility that you could also be wrong about God's 4th commandment of the 10 Commandments just like the other sections above if you are wrong are you interested in to know if you are wrong so you can more perfectly follow JESUS?

Look forward to your reply.

Hello LGW, yes you can keep correcting me.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 8, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello LGW, yes you can keep correcting me.

Ok great thanks pasifika. Thanks for showing your agreement with what we have been sharing so far. Let's discuss the part of your last post that we are not in agreement on which was....

pasifika wrote: Also the old covenant festivals, New moon, or Sabbath day(s) Are shadows of Christ..Col 2:16,17

You know I actually agree with this scripture and statement but many mistakenly think that Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about God's 4th commandment which is it not.

If you read all of Colossians 2:11-17 you are right that it is correctly talking about "SHADOW LAWS" just like those of HEBREWS 10:1-23 we were talking about earlier.

You agree that the "SHADOW LAWS" are those from the MOSAIC BOOK of the old covenant for the remission of sins and those laws that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant right? This I also agree on.

All these "SHADOW LAWS" however from the Mosaic BOOK of the old covenant where given to mankind after the fall of mankind AFTER man sinned against God and were pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for all mankind right?

Let me ask you a question here....

How can God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath which God made on the "seventh day" of creation *GENESIS 2:1-3 be a "SHADOW LAW" when mankind was in perfect harmony with God and talked face to face with God when there was NO SIN and no need of God's plan of salvation and when God's Sabbath was a part of the FINISHED work of creation?

God's 4th commandment is a "MEMORIAL" that means it does not point forward it points backward to the finished work of creation when there was no sin.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

............

Pasifika, now look at the contexts Colossians 2:16..

Did you know that under the old covenant annual feasts days there were special ceremonial annual sabbath days that were not God's 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle?

Lets look at them asking the question what was Paul referring to in Colossians 2:16 where the context here is to new moons, meat and drink, and sabbath days (not the Sabbath day).

Here is a list of old covenant sabbaths beside God's 4th commandment...

1. The sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

.......

So as you can see from the scriptures above there are many different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament isn't there. The annual ceremonial sabbaths in the feast days are the shadows of things to come. God's 4th commandment Sabbath however as we saw earlier is one of God's 10 commandments that is a "MEMORIAL" of creations past which points backwards and not forwards so cannot be a shadow of anything.

So if the context of Colossians 2:16 is to the shadow sabbaths and the new moons in the annual feast days what sabbaths do you think Colossians 2 is talking about?

Take your time to prayerfully consider this dear friend and reply when your ready. No hurry.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Studyman · Sep 8, 2020

pasifika said:
Thank you Studyman, reading your post made me comes up with these couple of Questions;
1) How is Abraham sins justified apart from works of the law Through ( Levite priesthood)? Was that a different way other than the Levite works established in Sinai etc for the forgiveness of sins? This is important...

i posted scriptures for your consideration. My entire point to founded in what the scripture say. You are I are on two different pages here it seems. I want to examine the Scriptures, all of the them, and determine what they are saying.

You seem to be here to promote and preserve your particular religious belief, in spite of the scriptures. For me it's not about defended a certain religious philosophy, rather, letting God direct us through HIS Own Words Paul said were written for our admonition.

Abraham was justified of his Transgressions of God's Law. Caleb was also justified of his Transgression of God's Law as well.

One was required to be justified through a Priesthood given specifically to Levi, which included sacrificial and ceremonial "Works" of atonement.

The other was not required to take an animal to a Levite Priest to perform these "works" for the atonement of his sin.

If you do not know which or these 2 man was justified by "works of the Law", and which was justified "apart" from these "works of the law", it is only because you have not considered the Scriptures I have posted for you.

If you truly believe this is important stuff, as you said, and as I also believe, then you will go back and look at the scriptures I posted. Once you have done that, I am confident you will be able to see the difference between the justification of these two men.

2) How can the Israel broke Abraham covenant since they had a different covenant (Sinai covenant) they had from the covenant God made with Abraham? You know the Sinai covenant is different from Abraham covenant?

Who said God gave Israel a different Covenant than HE gave to Abraham?

EX. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

Ex. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: (Show you how to live as God Showed Abraham) and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

According to the Word's of God, HE gave Abraham's Children the same Covenant he gave to Abraham.

So where did you get the religious philosophy that God didn't give Abraham's Children the same Covenant HE gave to Abraham?

But they broke this Covenant with God, and worshiped another god. Something Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not do. So did God wipe them out? NO!! He separated Levi from all the peoples of the world, and gave HIM a "Law of works" consisting of Ceremonial and Sacrificial Laws to provide atonement for these men who broke God's Covenant.

So yes, this Covenant God gave Specifically to Levi for atonement on Mt. Sinai, is different than the one God gave Abraham, and then to Abraham's Children.

But the Laws, Commandments and Statutes which define Sin, Righteousness, Holiness and clean was not different.

Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

In the New Covenant, these same Laws are written on the hears of His People.

You have not been taught about God's Covenant with Levi. You have been taught by "other" voices, that it was God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes which became obsolete. Not the Levitical Priesthood Abraham didn't have.

The Christ warns us of listening to these "other voices" ever since Adam and Eve.

I am hoping you might be stirred to look into it through the Holy scriptures that Paul said makes us wise unto Salvation.

pasifika · Sep 8, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Ok great thanks pasifika. Thanks for showing your agreement with what we have been sharing so far. Let's discuss the part of your last post that we are not in agreement on which was....

You know I actually agree with this scripture and statement but many mistakenly think that Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about God's 4th commandment which is it not.

If you read all of Colossians 2:11-17 you are right that it is correctly talking about "SHADOW LAWS" just like those of HEBREWS 10:1-23 we were talking about earlier.

You agree that the "SHADOW LAWS" are those from the MOSAIC BOOK of the old covenant for the remission of sins and those laws that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant right? This I also agree on.

All these "SHADOW LAWS" however from the Mosaic BOOK of the old covenant where given to mankind after the fall of mankind AFTER man sinned against God and were pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for all mankind right?

Let me ask you a question here....

How can God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath which God made on the "seventh day" of creation *GENESIS 2:1-3 be a "SHADOW LAW" when mankind was in perfect harmony with God and talked face to face with God when there was NO SIN and no need of God's plan of salvation and when God's Sabbath was a part of the FINISHED work of creation?

God's 4th commandment is a "MEMORIAL" that means it does not point forward it points backward to the finished work of creation when there was no sin.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

............

Pasifika, now look at the contexts Colossians 2:16..

Did you know that under the old covenant annual feasts days there were special ceremonial annual sabbath days that were not God's 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle?

Lets look at them asking the question what was Paul referring to in Colossians 2:16 where the context here is to new moons, meat and drink, and sabbath days (not the Sabbath day).

Here is a list of old covenant sabbaths beside God's 4th commandment...

1. The sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

.......

So as you can see from the scriptures above there are many different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament isn't there. The annual ceremonial sabbaths in the feast days are the shadows of things to come. God's 4th commandment Sabbath however as we saw earlier is one of God's 10 commandments that is a "MEMORIAL" of creations past which points backwards and not forwards so cannot be a shadow of anything.

So if the context of Colossians 2:16 is to the shadow sabbaths and the new moons in the annual feast days what sabbaths do you think Colossians 2 is talking about?

Take your time to prayerfully consider this dear friend and reply when your ready. No hurry.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Thank you LGW, I believe all the laws given under the old covenant are all pointed to Christ even the 7th day Sabbath.

Yes the 7th day Sabbath reminded the Israelites of their God who works 6 days and rested on the 7th day in creation ( as a memorial as you’ve said). That same God who came as a man and died in Calvary so the 7th day Sabbath was pointed to Christ the maker of the universe from creation..

pasifika · Sep 8, 2020

Studyman said:
i posted scriptures for your consideration. My entire point to founded in what the scripture say. You are I are on two different pages here it seems. I want to examine the Scriptures, all of the them, and determine what they are saying.

You seem to be here to promote and preserve your particular religious belief, in spite of the scriptures. For me it's not about defended a certain religious philosophy, rather, letting God direct us through HIS Own Words Paul said were written for our admonition.

Abraham was justified of his Transgressions of God's Law. Caleb was also justified of his Transgression of God's Law as well.

One was required to be justified through a Priesthood given specifically to Levi, which included sacrificial and ceremonial "Works" of atonement.

The other was not required to take an animal to a Levite Priest to perform these "works" for the atonement of his sin.

If you do not know which or these 2 man was justified by "works of the Law", and which was justified "apart" from these "works of the law", it is only because you have not considered the Scriptures I have posted for you.

If you truly believe this is important stuff, as you said, and as I also believe, then you will go back and look at the scriptures I posted. Once you have done that, I am confident you will be able to see the difference between the justification of these two men.

Who said God gave Israel a different Covenant than HE gave to Abraham?

EX. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

Ex. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: (Show you how to live as God Showed Abraham) and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

According to the Word's of God, HE gave Abraham's Children the same Covenant he gave to Abraham.

So where did you get the religious philosophy that God didn't give Abraham's Children the same Covenant HE gave to Abraham?

But they broke this Covenant with God, and worshiped another god. Something Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not do. So did God wipe them out? NO!! He separated Levi from all the peoples of the world, and gave HIM a "Law of works" consisting of Ceremonial and Sacrificial Laws to provide atonement for these men who broke God's Covenant.

So yes, this Covenant God gave Specifically to Levi for atonement on Mt. Sinai, is different than the one God gave Abraham, and then to Abraham's Children.

But the Laws, Commandments and Statutes which define Sin, Righteousness, Holiness and clean was not different.

Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

In the New Covenant, these same Laws are written on the hears of His People.

You have not been taught about God's Covenant with Levi. You have been taught by "other" voices, that it was God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes which became obsolete. Not the Levitical Priesthood Abraham didn't have.

The Christ warns us of listening to these "other voices" ever since Adam and Eve.

I am hoping you might be stirred to look into it through the Holy scriptures that Paul said makes us wise unto Salvation.

Thank you studyman, so what you’re saying that others like Abraham were justified apart from works of the law (so Abraham was justified through Faith) and others like Caleb were justified by works of the law through the Levi priesthood?

Well, according to Galatians 2:16 states that a person is not justified by works of the law...

Galatians 2:16...know that a person is Not justified by the works of the law, but by Faith in Jesus Christ...

So don’t you think Our justification as mankind has been always through Faith instead of the “works of the law” given in Sinai? And that Faith comes by hearing the message of Christ or the gospels instead of the law (old covenant)...

Yes the covenant God made with Abraham and his descendants is Not the same covenant that God made with those who came out of Egypt...Deuteronomy 5:2

Deuteronomy 5:2...The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. It was Not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant But with us, with all of us who are alive here today...

Yes, they broke that covenant some were perished in the wilderness, some cursed not to enter into Gods rest But others were saved because they believe the Gospel Hebrews 3, Hebrews 4...

Studyman · Sep 8, 2020

pasifika said:
Thank you studyman, so what you’re saying that others like Abraham were justified apart from works of the law (so Abraham was justified through Faith) and others like Caleb were justified by works of the law through the Levi priesthood?

Well, according to Galatians 2:16 states that a person is not justified by works of the law...

That is true. God gave Abraham the Good News and HE believed God and did as God instructed. This is called "FAITH".

Caleb also was given the Good News, and HE believed God and did as God instructed. This also was called "Faith".

But most of the Children of Israel, when given the Good News, didn't didn't believe God and didn't do as God instructed. They didn't mix the Good News of the gospel, with Faith, as it is written.

Duet 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee (Good News) thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

And Again;

Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Galatians 2:16...know that a person is Not justified by the works of the law, but by Faith in Jesus Christ...

So don’t you think Our justification as mankind has been always through Faith instead of the “works of the law” given in Sinai? And that Faith comes by hearing the message of Christ or the gospels instead of the law (old covenant)...

Yes, Faith/Belief is the key to Salvation as the Christ of Bible pointed out in the beginning.

Abraham heard the Gospel of Christ and was glad. And so was Caleb.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Num. 14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, (Abraham) neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, (Spirit of faith) and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Yes the covenant God made with Abraham and his descendants is Not the same covenant that God made with those who came out of Egypt...Deuteronomy 5:2

Duet. 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

I asked this once, I'll ask again. "Why were they still alive after creating an Idol and worshiping it? If Salvation is by Faith, and these people didn't have Faith, then why are they still alive in Duet 5? It is because God "ADDED" a Covenant with Levi on Israel's behalf, to provide atonement, "till the Seed should come"? A Covenant not given on the day when HE brought them out of Egypt.

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

No, this Law concerning burnt offering and sacrifices was "ADDED" because of transgressions.

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Just like HE did for Abraham.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Yes, they broke that covenant some were perished in the wilderness, some cursed not to enter into Gods rest But others were saved because they believe the Gospel Hebrews 3, Hebrews 4...

The Covenant that was replaced, was the "ADDED" covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf. This Covenant dealt with the administration of God's Laws that Israel broke, and provided for the atonement of men who broke these Laws.

These Laws were not replaced, just the Priesthood given to Levi as it is written.

It's right there in your own Bible. It's just that you have been led astray by the "other voice" in the garden.

THE SABBATH TRUTH!

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