Can the Dietary Law Get You Cut Off From God

Bro.T said:

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose.

That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

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"And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check."
When our lord took our cup of wrath and bruise the head of the serpent did he did it in a day to day basis or did he did knowing all of our sins. This is the part were you cross the line chasing the law which only gives death, even when James was clear in what us gentiles should follow you are stuck searching to give scriptures another meaning. Seek the mercy of God first instead of spying in our freedom in Christ and spreading your Judaizing doctrines.

Bro.T said:

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose.

That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

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This teaching is ridiculous, because everyone, including you, falls to sin sometimes after the new birth, because we're still in a body of flesh.
The only way you can claim that Jesus' forgiveness is only for past sins and actually be saved, is if you repent on your deathbed.

1 Timothy 4:1-5

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

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This does however, give the importance of giving thanks to God for your food in prayer.
and that I think is the most important thing, that you give thanks, that you eat to the glory of God

Bro.T said:

Weather a person is a Gentile or stranger, all have to follow the same path to Christ.

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All need to be saved by Christ, yes.
Accepting Christ does not mean first obeying and following the OT law.

Bro.T said:

The bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5).

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Yes, it's through Christ who gives eternal life, not the law, which doesn't.

Bro.T said:

If you truly love God, then you will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth

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EVERY word? Really?
How many people have you stoned to death for not keeping the Sabbath or for committing adultery?
Do you wear clothes made from only one fabric?
Do you offer animal sacrifices?
Do you rise in the presence of your elders?
Have you ever trimmed the hair at the sides of your head, or your beard?
Have you been circumcised?
Do you avoid women at certain times of the month and after they have given birth, and burn anything which they have been wearing and which you touch?
Do you abstain from ALL the foods listed in Leviticus?
When I have asked these things before, I have been told that these are only the Jewish oral tradition and do not need to be kept - but they are all recorded in the Bible; God said these things to Moses.

If you do obey all of the above; good.
But then you also have a problem, because:
One of the commandments is you shall not murder - and it's against our law too.
Christ is our sacrifice, offered once and for all for sin. Even the Jews don't offer animal sacrifices now.
Paul said that circumcision is nothing, cannot save and that if anyone is circumcised it means that Christ died for nothing.
Jesus touched a woman who had been bleeding for many years and called her daughter.
Jesus and Paul said that food does not make someone unclean and cannot bring you closer to God.

Bro.T said:

Paul said in Ephesians 2: 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20

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Yes, if we have the Holy Spirit - after we have been born again - we are God's children. I said that.

Bro.T said:

So now the Gentiles have to do the same things Israel have to do concerning the laws to get in the Kingdom of God.

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Nope - we only need Jesus.
Jesus alone saves; not Jesus + the law, Jesus + baptism, Jesus + obeying "correct" church practice, or anything else.
Jesus is the giver of eternal life, John 3:16, John 3:36, 1 John 5:12.
The work of God is to believe in the one that he sent, John 6:29.
God's will is that everyone who believes in Jesus has eternal life and is saved, John 6:40.
There is no other name given to men by which we are saved, Acts of the Apostles 4:12.
Jesus never said "keep the law and you will be saved", only "believe in me."

Bro.T said:

The foundation of the church started in the wilderness on the seventh day of the week,

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Jesus said, "I WILL build my church", not "I started building my church centuries ago and you get to join it if you do all the right things".

Bro.T said:

There's no such thing as Jewish laws, all laws came from God through Moses.

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Given to a specific group of people.

Bro.T said:

...Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

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You do realise that the commandments are love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbour as yourself, and the rich young man was showing only that he loved his neighbour - he didn't mention God at all?
You do realise that the thing that was preventing him from loving God and putting him first was his great wealth, which is why Jesus told him to sell his possessions and give to the poor?

You keep every iota of the OT law if it makes you feel good it doesn't save; only Jesus does. Personally, I am in Christ, not the OT law.

Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Original Happy Camper said:

Sanctuary Law The only one that could be fulfilled and was by Jesus Christ.

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Strong in Him said:

Not sure what you mean by that.

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Psalms 77
13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

The sanctuary service pointed forward to Jesus Christ and ended with his death.

The earthly Old Testament sanctuary, and the entire ministry associated with it, reflects the ministry of Christ on our behalf. It is also a miniature enactment of the much greater ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, of which the earthly sanctuary was merely “a figure for the time then present” (Hebrews 9:9). The earthly was a copy of the heavenly.

Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle (Hebrews 8:5).

Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary that was not built by human hands after His resurrection and ascension into heaven.

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us (Hebrews 9:24).

The Symbolic Sanctuary | The Ceremonial Law

Bro.T said:

Who gave Moses "The Dietary Law"? We will do a strange work which is seldom done today. We will allow the scripture to be our guide to answer that question, along with a few others that need to be addressed. After finding out who gave this law to Moses, we should have no problem following it, if we call ourselves Christians. Remember brothers and sisters Jesus, states in Matthew 5 and verse 18, "For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." We still have the heavens and the earth, correct? Those things indicate that the Lord's law still remains in tact. Those that read the Bible know that all has not been fulfilled, so His laws and statutes must be kept. In addition, we must also look at verses that some individuals think the subject in that particular verse or chapter is dealing with the "Dietary Law" when in fact has nothing to do with it. Those individuals try to uses Paul's writings to come to that conclusion. (As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. II Peter 3:16) The unquestionable fact is that the law of sacrifice was nailed to the cross, which was our schoolmaster to bring us onto Christ. Now, let’s see who gave the "Dietary Law" to Moses and the rest of the Children of Israel.

And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, these are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.” (Leviticus 11:1-2)

So, who spoke unto Moses and Aaron? The LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying, "These are the beasts which ye shall eat." Was this the Father? Well, let's allow the book show us. Take a Look at this verse in St. John chapter one.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18)

Note the verse says, "No man hath seen God at any time." Therefore, that covers all time correct. If no man has seen God at anytime who is this?

And he said unto Moses, “Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.” (Exodus 24:1)

We see in the above verse, Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and seventy of the elders were told to come up unto the Lord and worship. Let's skip to the 9th verse and see what happen when these 74 Israelites arrive on top of the mount.

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink. (Exodus 24:9-11)

Clearly the verse states, "They saw the God of Israel." The verse doesn't say it was a vision. But, St. John chapter one states, "No man has seen God at anytime.” Before we return to the Book of John and find out which God no man has seen at anytime, note what the next verse states.

And the LORD said unto Moses, “Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.” (Exodus 24:12)

So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD! Now, let's find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD!

Now, let us find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

So, who is the God that hasn't been seen? The Father himself, ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Now, let's see who this God is that the seventy four elders saw in mount Horeb. Let us go to I Corinthians the tenth chapter and start at verse one.

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (I Corinthians 10:1-4)

So, who was the God in the Mountain that gave Moses the Law? That God was CHRIST! Let's return to the fifth chapter of John and see who's name Christ came in.

I am come in my Father's name and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (John 5:43)

So, you see brothers and sister “Jesus” in the Fathers name. I would be real careful when it comes to the name of Jesus. Now we see that Jesus Christ is the God that gave the commandments to Moses. We should have no problem doing what He says if we call ourselves followers of Christ.

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Drinking blood can also get you cut off forever, though this is what Jesus said you have no life without.

Jamdoc said:

The bible is full of strong language, including scatalogical and sexual terms, the language itself is not so much of a problem, unless it is a stumbling block to a brother. Which if that kind of language is a stumbling block to you sure, we should avoid it. But I do question how such words are stumbling blocks to you when the bible has God using the word harlot and describing Israel as "gone a whoring", and refers to leaving the corpses of slain israelites as dung on the earth, not buried or mourned.

Also some it's hard to keep a list of "naughty words" when the meaning of words changes over time. Some people consider ass to be a profane word, but in biblical times, asses were beasts of burden.

I think it is a failing of our culture that using the Lord's name in vain, and using Jesus' name as an utterancy of a curse word is seen as "soft" cursing that's acceptable in prime time TV, while scatalogical and sexual terms are considered off limits. That's so backwards!
Profaning the holy is SO MUCH WORSE than some vulgar term for a natural function.
The avoidance of vulgarity is not because vulgarity is offending God but because it makes our testimony weaker in front of other people, it makes us seem more worldly and less holy. I can understand that, but sometimes, the bible it self uses terms we would consider "vulgar" and even has the same meaning, like I described above.
But what should be non negotiable, what is absolutely an on offense against the Lord, is profaning His name!
I don't feel conviction from the holy spirit about strong vulgar language, it's not a stumbling block to me, but I'll avoid it around people who it is a stumbling block around and I'll avoid it if I'm in a situation where it might weaken my testimony.
But I do feel conviction when I hear friends of mine profane the Lord's name as a curse. That makes me angry, especially when they themselves are Christian, it's just something the world has poisoned us with.

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Granted, there are things in the Bible that cause one to raise their eyebrows, in shock when reading it for the first time (like Isaiah possibly Prophesying stark naked or in Hosea the Prophet taking Prostitutes as wives to be a Prophetic Message... And other Scriptures like in Jeremiah(I think) where God asks him to prepare something to eat using Human Faeces for fuel to burn)
The point IS God was trying to communicate something about the seriousness of Sin... God would NOT use masturbation as an analogy, I don't think (I mean, that is really awful, disgusting even). People reading such Posts here might be struggling in their minds already, so why do it, if God's NOT saying it?

Bro.T said:

There's know Levitical Priesthood so we know we can't observe those laws, but the Dietary Laws we can. So, if an individual call themselves a Christian or a friend of Christ, the swine (pig) should never be on your dinner plate or anything else that the Lord deems unclean. Remember that Christ is the ONE that gave the dietary law. Remember Christ was the Rock that followed our fathers in the cloud in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4). Remember, He is the Lord and He change not. Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever Hebrews 13:8)! It has nothing to do with an animal being a scavenger or anything else. It has to do with thus say the Lord. He is the one that created us, HE knows what's good or not for His creation.

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Break one, then you are guilty of breaking them all. This is true observance to the old covenant. Good thing we are under the new covenant through our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. But let each of us be convinced in our own mind. None of us should judge what others esteem as Holy. Be blessed.

Bro.T said:

There's know Levitical Priesthood so we know we can't observe those laws, but the Dietary Laws we can. So, if an individual call themselves a Christian or a friend of Christ, the swine (pig) should never be on your dinner plate or anything else that the Lord deems unclean. Remember that Christ is the ONE that gave the dietary law. Remember Christ was the Rock that followed our fathers in the cloud in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4). Remember, He is the Lord and He change not. Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever Hebrews 13:8)! It has nothing to do with an animal being a scavenger or anything else. It has to do with thus say the Lord. He is the one that created us, HE knows what's good or not for His creation.

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Why don't you give the New Covenant a try? It is permissible under the New Covenant to eat anything you want, including pig, shellfish, meant and dairy together, etc. God has made all edible things clean. If it bothers others then you should refrain for eating in their presence what bothers them. This could include any meat when eating with a vegetarian.

Jamdoc said:

Would it be included in the word of God, as words spoken by God to an apostle, if it was not truth?

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I think it is true what Bible tells, but the meaning can be different, because the context indicates so.

Jamdoc said:

also bats are not birds. They're beasts, mammals.

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Yes, in modern system. It is possible that in ancient times “fowl” was defined differently.

Maria Billingsley said:

Break one, then you are guilty of breaking them all. This is true observance to the old covenant. Good thing we are under the new covenant through our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. But let each of us be convinced in our own mind. None of us should judge what others esteem as Holy. Be blessed.

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what a person esteems as holy, and what God esteems as holy are 2 different things.

Do you agree?

1213 said:

I think it is true what Bible tells, but the meaning can be different, because the context indicates so.



Yes, in modern system. It is possible that in ancient times “fowl” was defined differently.

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Well, read the verses from 1 Timothy 4:1-5 then because that also calls all animals good and sanctified by prayer.

Jamdoc said:

Well, read the verses from 1 Timothy 4:1-5 then because that also calls all animals good and sanctified by prayer.

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So far as 1 Timothy 4 is concerned, the word "meats" means "food" in the original meaning of the word, and not specifically animal flesh foods. The Gnostics taught erroneous doctrines, one of which is that marriage was a giving-in to the lust of the flesh. Therefore they spoke against it (verse 3). But marriage is a God-given institution; it is He that provided a helpmeet for Adam in the garden. Some of the Gnostics or ascetics (those who advocated denying bodily comforts of various kinds to control evil bodyily tendencies) were teaching that certain foods should not be eaten for spiritual reasons. A prohibition of certain foods on particular religious days may also be part of Paul's focus. But Paul is saying that these prohibitions or teachings were above and beyond God's teachings, as was the forbidding to marry. They were unnecessary customs being imposed upon people.

Abstaining from Meats - 2Tim 4:2-6 | Why Was Eating Meat Allowed? | Flesh Foods - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

Jamdoc said:

Well, read the verses from 1 Timothy 4:1-5 then because that also calls all animals good and sanctified by prayer.

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Webster's 1828 Dictionary
Meat
MEAT, noun

1. Food in general; any thing eaten for nourishment, either by man or beast.

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb--to you it shall be for meat Genesis 1:29.

I hope that these two posts help.

Original Happy Camper said:

Webster's 1828 Dictionary
Meat
MEAT, noun

1. Food in general; any thing eaten for nourishment, either by man or beast.

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb--to you it shall be for meat Genesis 1:29.

I hope that these two posts help.

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I know this, but it outright says "for every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received in thanksgiving."

Are you going to say that God didn't create everything that lives so pigs aren't "creatures of God"?

Jamdoc said:

I know this, but it outright says "for every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received in thanksgiving."

Are you going to say that God didn't create everything that lives so pigs aren't "creatures of God"?

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In verse 3, every creature is truly good for the purpose it was created by God, and was to be used accordingly. God's entire creation is "good," as the Creator Himself pronounced it to be. Paul is not contradicting Scripture or teaching that now all flesh foods are clean. This section of verses does not lift the ban on eating unclean animal flesh. Paul's saying that each part of creation should be accepted or received with grateful thanks to the Creator for the role it fills in human life. There should be no artificial restrictions on food or marrying such as the Gnostics were trying to impose. In verse six Paul requests that this instruction be given to the brethren.

Verse 5 does not now mean than we can eat anything we want, so long as we pray over it. Paul would then be contradicting other Bible authors and God's own counsel. Rather, he means in verse 5 that God has ordained, or "set apart certain items appointed for use as food, and they are therefore 'sanctified', or set apart, each for its intended use." (Bible Commentary) Thus God's word permits a wide variety of food, even with the exclusion of unclean meats. We have much to be grateful for, and we hope this has helped.

Abstaining from Meats - 2Tim 4:2-6 | Why Was Eating Meat Allowed? | Flesh Foods - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

I hope this helps

Original Happy Camper said:

In verse 3, every creature is truly good for the purpose it was created by God, and was to be used accordingly. God's entire creation is "good," as the Creator Himself pronounced it to be. Paul is not contradicting Scripture or teaching that now all flesh foods are clean. This section of verses does not lift the ban on eating unclean animal flesh. Paul's saying that each part of creation should be accepted or received with grateful thanks to the Creator for the role it fills in human life. There should be no artificial restrictions on food or marrying such as the Gnostics were trying to impose. In verse six Paul requests that this instruction be given to the brethren.

Verse 5 does not now mean than we can eat anything we want, so long as we pray over it. Paul would then be contradicting other Bible authors and God's own counsel. Rather, he means in verse 5 that God has ordained, or "set apart certain items appointed for use as food, and they are therefore 'sanctified', or set apart, each for its intended use." (Bible Commentary) Thus God's word permits a wide variety of food, even with the exclusion of unclean meats. We have much to be grateful for, and we hope this has helped.

Abstaining from Meats - 2Tim 4:2-6 | Why Was Eating Meat Allowed? | Flesh Foods - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

I hope this helps

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There are multiple verses in the new testament declaring all animals clean. I have given 2, Acts 10, and 1 Timothy 4 both make this declaration.
Some things CHANGED with Calvary. Jesus fulfilled some laws.