FOX news confirms that Trump disparaged veterans ...

Hans Blaster

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Doesn't matter if it's a court case! It's only right and proper in a civilized society that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Exactly what "proof of guilt" procedure shall we apply in this affair without a court proceeding?

When shall we determine that enough evidence is gathered?

When shall we determine that enough defense has been presented?

Since the things he is alleged to have said are not crimes, there is no legal jeopardy to be faced, then I and others are free to pass judgement when we feel enough evidence has been presented. Absent a confession of falsification from one or more of the unnamed sources, I am satisfied that he probably said these despicable things as they are consistent with his history and character.
 
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durangodawood

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Doesn't matter if it's a court case! It's only right and proper in a civilized society that people are innocent until proven guilty.
I dont think so. Proof is way too high a standard for us to use in judging the actions and character of people in any important matter, such as running for office. As humans we have to judge the character of others based on evidence rather than proof. If not we'd be complete suckers, every one of us.

Now in court, when a persons actual freedom is at stake, of course the standard should be higher.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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Doesn't matter if it's a court case! It's only right and proper in a civilized society that people are innocent until proven guilty.
Nonsense.

If I know someone that habitually lies, I won’t immediately trust things they say, especially if it’s denying saying something I know is within their character to say.

I do this because I’m not an idiot...
 
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Jimmy D

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Doesn't matter if it's a court case! It's only right and proper in a civilized society that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Does that include the people, who don't wish to be named, who you are accusing of lying?
 
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Kentonio

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Nonsense.

If I know someone that habitually lies, I won’t immediately trust things they say, especially if it’s denying saying something I know is within their character to say.

I do this because I’m not an idiot...

Especially when the guys denial included a lie about something we know 100% to be true.
 
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Kentonio

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Fortunately, this latest attempt to discredit the President with some phony story has blown up in the accusers' faces. That didn't take too long.

So, now we await this week's installment. :rolleyes:

No it hasn’t. So far you’ve had the other person who was actually there during the grave incident refuse to comment, Trump immediately attack that person, and a load of Trump cronies with a long track record of lying saying ‘he would never say things like that!’ despite him having previously said numerous comparable things.

Oh and the president telling a proven lie while denying it all.
 
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Albion

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No it hasn’t.
Oh, yeh it has. This one had nothing going for it from the beginning.

Even your own reply here couldn't come up with anything specific or factual.

For example:

a load of Trump cronies with a long track record of lying
 
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Bobber

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I dont think so. Proof is way too high a standard for us to use in judging the actions and character of people in any important matter, such as running for office. As humans we have to judge the character of others based on evidence rather than proof. If not we'd be complete suckers, every one of us.

And what do you know about the characters who made the accusations? Absolutely NOTHING.
 
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KCfromNC

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No it's not a reason to believe he did it again.

Interesting the first defense we have of Donald is maybe he isn't continuing to disparage veterans like he did in the past.

First that incident with Trump back 2015, what Trump said about McCain was perhaps his greatest blunder ever made. Quite frankly I don't believe his heart was really in the statement I really don't believe he feels those captured shouldn't be honoured.

Then the defense is well, he was lying when he disparaged veterans in the past.

The man deserves the benefit of the doubt especially when the accusation comes from anonymous sources.
Given the two defenses you've listed, why does he deserve any benefit of the doubt at all?
 
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MIDutch

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Yeh, I caught that classic of fake news this afternoon.

Did you notice that, based on the events it is supposed to be about, the "news" is years old?

But it was only this week, when the good news came out that the economy is far exceeding expectations, that the opponents of the President felt it was high time to spring something that will keep that encouraging economic news in the background.
It is also "years old" news that came out that instead of going to the cemetery to honor fallen war dead, trump went shopping for some trinkets at the US Embassy in Paris to cheer up the White House. While other world leaders were standing solemnly in the rain to remember those who died in service to their countries and the world, trump was having art pieces he took from the US Embassy loaded onto Air Force One.

What kind of moron does things like that?

Also, historians, investigative joulrnalists and authors of biographies are going to be finding "years old news" for years to come that reveal how insane and corrupt this administration is.
 
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Kentonio

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Oh, yeh it has. This one had nothing going for it from the beginning.

Even your own reply here couldn't come up with anything specific or factual.

For example:

Sarah Sanders is a good example. Has come out in defense of the president, and expects to be believed despite a long track record of falsehood on his behalf. Including of course the famous time she claimed she’d heard from ‘countless people at the FBI’ only to subsequently admit during her Mueller interview that she had been lying.
 
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MIDutch

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And what do you know about the characters who made the accusations? Absolutely NOTHING.
Well, we DO know the character of the accused ... so there's that.
 
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Kentonio

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It is also "years old" news that came out that instead of going to the cemetery to honor fallen war dead, trump went shopping for some trinkets at the US Embassy in Paris to cheer up the White House. While other world leaders were standing solemnly in the rain to remember those who died in service to their countries and the world, trump was having art pieces he took from the US Embassy loaded onto Air Force One.

What kind of moron does things like that?

Also, historians, investigative joulrnalists and authors of biographies are going to be finding "years old news" for years to come that reveal how insane and corrupt this administration is.

I hope someone is keeping all those art pieces catalogued..
 
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whatbogsends

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Well, it looks obviously like it isn't a disparagement of 'all' prisoners of war, that's for sure.

In fact, it looks like it's disparaging ONE prisoner of war (who was also disparaged by other POWs he was held with).

"I like people who weren't captured"

People is plural.
 
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whatbogsends

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No it's not a reason to believe he did it again. First that incident with Trump back 2015, what Trump said about McCain was perhaps his greatest blunder ever made. Quite frankly I don't believe his heart was really in the statement I really don't believe he feels those captured shouldn't be honoured. McCain and he had not been getting along to say the least and in a moment of anger blurted out what he did. He would have been well served to pivot back some other way but again I hold that's still isn't a reason to believe he said this about others. The man deserves the benefit of the doubt especially when the accusation comes from anonymous sources. To me that's even worse that the alleged insult. A man should be able to stand before his accusers and not have them hiding in the dark.

What a joke. "I really don't believe he feels those captured shouldn't be honoured". Then your belief defies observable reality. Trump stated it plainly, and disregard his words and instead choose to wrap yourself in a belief that feels good to you.
 
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MIDutch

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I hope someone is keeping all those art pieces catalogued..
I read that there was a brouhaha between the State Department (US Embassy in France) and the White House about the "transfer" of the art pieces to the White House, but the donald got the last word. We'll have to see where they end up after January 20.

But it does again speak to the fact that trump thinks the US government belongs to him and he can do whatever he pleases with it.
 
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jsimms615

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This is sad but not shocking. And it makes it hard for a christian to make a choice of who to vote for when you have a compulsive liar and a cheat in office and a man who approves of late term abortions running for the Democrat party. It seems there are no decent choices or it is who you dislike the least
 
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MIDutch

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So at least you acknowledge you don't know the characters of the accusers. So the accusations should be considered nothing but psychological manipulation on a voting public.
Unknown sources ... lying/racist/mysoginist/criminal/adulterous sex offender.
Unknown sources ... lying/racist/mysoginist/criminal/adulterous sex offender.
Unknown sources ... lying/racist/mysoginist/criminal/adulterous sex offender.

Hmmm. Such a hard choice.
 
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Bobber

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What a joke. "I really don't believe he feels those captured shouldn't be honoured". Then your belief defies observable reality. Trump stated it plainly, and disregard his words and instead choose to wrap yourself in a belief that feels good to you.
Observable reality also takes into account the possibility that someone has spoken something in haste without it REALLY reflecting what's in their heart. (with the McCain statement he made) Example....kid or young person might exclaim they hate their parent.....can be documented they said it.....doesn't mean that's truly what's in their heart. A person can say something dumb but you can also take it with a grain of salt knowing that's not truly what's in their heart.
 
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