Covenant and New Covenant theology

Guojing

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The ancient Israelites were in covenant with God. That covenant itself caused them to be "right with God". In their identity with the Israelite assembly, they acted faithfully in order to *maintain* their status as "right with God".

You have a very strange interpretation. The kingdom of Israel to split into 2, because of their disobedience, starting from Solomon.

Throughout the split, God kept sending prophets like Jeremiah, Hosea, Isaiah, to warn Israel to return to the covenant, and to keep the Law of Moses. But because Israel refuse to and kept killing those prophets, they were conquered by Babylon, then Persia.

Israel was definitely not "right with God".

Stephen summed up in Acts 7, when he was filled with the Holy Spirit, this was what God was speaking to the leaders of Israel.

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
 
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mkgal1

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Stephen summed up in Acts 7, when he was filled with the Holy Spirit, this was what God was speaking to the leaders of Israel.

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it
Which is why Jesus warned the leaders that the kingdom of God (as His representatives) was being taken from them and given to those that would produce fruit:

Matthew 21:41-45 ~
He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.


This is from the Lord,

and it is marvelous in our eyes’
k?

43Therefore I tell
you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44
He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them.
What Jesus prophesied occurred in 70 AD (in their generation - as promised).

"The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD" (article here --->)The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD

 
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keras

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True believers are the Israel of God

Many ask, Who are God's chosen people in the earth today? Who are His elect? Are they of the natural seed of the children of Israel? Are they the "Jews" according to their ethnic lineage? Or are God's chosen people now the Christian believers of Jesus Christ?

It is commonly believed that the church must be raptured into heaven so that God can renew His separate program with the natural Jew. But is this truth? Is He going to redeem them in their present state, then remarry them?

Will the O.T. Law: the Mosaic Covenant which was only temporary, Hebrews 7:12 & 8:l3, be able to somehow in the future, disannul the Abrahamic covenant, of which the church is now the only partaker through the Seed of Abraham: Jesus Christ?

It has been well said, that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The whole Bible teaches only ONE acceptable seed, ONE family, ONE all-encompassing covenant, only ONE Israelite people as the true Covenant "children of the living God." Romans 9:26, Eph. 4:4-6

The New Covenant promised seed has been sown and is risen to replace the Old Covenant chosen seed and its unfruitful, ineffective, but once necessary life has passed out of God's plan, just as surely as have works of the Old Testament Law.

Ancient Israel, is a type of the "first man Adam, the old man": the natural body. Whereas the new Israel of Christianity is of the "last Adam, the new creation", a spiritual body.

The firstborn was Jacob, typifying Israel of the flesh- Ex.4:22; Hos.11:1. The second born: Jesus, was of the Spirit, 1 Cor.12:12-14. In Genesis 25:23 we also see two nations, a natural ethnic Israel and a spiritual true; Israel of God.

Israel of old was chosen as the firstfruits nation of the fallen Adamic seed to receive and carry the revelation of the creative, redemptive, promises of God Almighty. Isaiah 43:10; Romans 3:2 It was revealed to them long ago: I the Lord am holy and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. Leviticus 20:26

God later divorced ethnic Israel on the grounds of whoring after idols. Jeremiah 3:1-11 and will marry another woman: the true Christian believers. Matthew 21:43, Isaiah 62:1-5


The faithful and obedient children in the true "Israel of God" are being prepared and made ready, Revelation 19:7…prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

In perfect holy union, the bride, the Lamb's wife, shall be called "the holy people, the redeemed of the Lord”. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10


False teaching is that God's chosen are still the natural Jew and that everything for us as a Christian is in heaven; that Jesus has to hurry up and rapture us out of the earth so that He can renew His program and make another covenant with the chosen Jewish nation. But, the truth of Bible teaching is that Christian believers are His only chosen and that only through Abrahams Seed, the true Christian Church, shall all the families of the earth he blessed, then we had better stop and re-evaluate this issue. The serious mistake for far too long, has been--that much of the Bible's truth concerning Israel is part of another Covenant and for another day or another people.

Friends, that is actually "another gospel." Galatians 1:8-9
Ref; Ross McKay
 
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Guojing

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Romans 9:6 ~ And it is not as that the word of God has failed. For not all who are of Israel, are these Israel.

Then you are presenting a tautological/circular argument.

Premise 1: The ancient Israelites were in covenant with God. That covenant itself caused them to be "right with God". In their identity with the Israelite assembly, they acted faithfully in order to *maintain* their status as "right with God".

Premise 2: Those who are not right with God, are not Israel.
 
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Guojing

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Which is why Jesus warned the leaders that the kingdom of God (as His representatives) was being taken from them and given to those that would produce fruit:

Matthew 21:41-45 ~
He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.


This is from the Lord,

and it is marvelous in our eyes’
k?43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them.
What Jesus prophesied occurred in 70 AD (in their generation - as promised).

"The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD" (article here --->)The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD

As I already stated to you, there was a one year extension period given to Israel, after Christ died on the cross and rose again.

That is the context of Acts 1:6.

But I know you disagree, let us just move on from this point.
 
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mkgal1

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Then you are presenting a tautological/circular argument.

Premise 1: The ancient Israelites were in covenant with God. That covenant itself caused them to be "right with God". In their identity with the Israelite assembly, they acted faithfully in order to *maintain* their status as "right with God".

Premise 2: Those who are not right with God, are not Israel.
As I've been posting - this was a transitional time period (from 30 AD - 70 AD). The old covenant was obsolete and soon disappearing (Hebrews 8:13).

Quoting from link:
In Jeremiah 4:1–4, the prophet reminds the people that they cannot rightfully trust in the mark of circumcision for covenant blessings; rather, they have to experience the inner reality of a circumcised heart that the circumcision in their flesh is to signify. The Lord’s covenant of salvation has always been a covenant of the heart.


"Circumcision of the Heart | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org" Circumcision of the Heart
 
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mkgal1

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As I already stated to you, there was a one year extension period given to Israel, after Christ died on the cross and rose again.

That is the context of Acts 1:6.

But I know you disagree, let us just move on from this point.
That doesn't negate the fact that - just as Jesus had promised - the kingdom of God was, indeed, taken from the corrupt religious leaders within their generation (40 years later).
 
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Guojing

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That doesn't negate the fact that - just as Jesus had promised - the kingdom of God was, indeed, taken from the corrupt religious leaders within their generation (40 years later).

Like I said to another here, don't anticipate revelation. We know that now, because Israel's leaders stoned Stephen. We were born after that fact.

But Peter and the 11 could not have known it before Acts 7, correct?

If the Sanhedrin chose to accept Stephen's message, repent and be water baptized, then history would have changed course.
 
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BABerean2

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If the Sanhedrin chose to accept Stephen's message, repent and be water baptized, then history would have changed course.


Which baptism is a part of salvation?


Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:


Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


.
 
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mkgal1

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Like I said to another here, don't anticipate revelation. We know that now, because Israel's leaders stoned Stephen. We were born after that fact.

But Peter and the 11 could not have known it before Acts 7, correct?
The old covenant's obsolescence wasn't because of the murder of Stephen? It was because of the Cross.

It was known that Jesus arrived during the old covenant last days because of Daniel's prophecy and the timeline that was known by Daniel's people. The forerunner of Jesus (John) had been preparing the people in the wilderness.

Luke 1
13But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. 14He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He shall never take wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. 16Many of the sons of Israel he will turn back to the Lord their God. 17And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children(a) and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Quoting Vladamir Moss:
In the fullness of time, in accordance with the plan that He had indicated to Adam and Eve immediately after the Fall, and in accordance with the sayings of the Old Testament prophets, God, the Creator of the universe, became a man in the womb of the Holy Virgin Mary.

Now Christ was also “the Son of David”, that is, a descendant of the old royal dynastic line of Israel; He came to restore that line and make it eternal. For, as the Archangel Gabriel said to the Virgin at the Annunciation: “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His Kingdom there will be no end” (Luke 1.32-33) ~ "CHRIST, ISRAEL AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM" CHRIST, ISRAEL AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM
 
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mkgal1

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But Peter and the 11 could not have known it before Acts 7, correct?
They did know this before. Jesus said this before the time of Acts 7 (and was quoting Psalm 118):

Matthew 21
38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?”41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.

This is from the Lord,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’(k)?
43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them.
 
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mkgal1

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Like I said to another here, don't anticipate revelation. We know that now, because Israel's leaders stoned Stephen. We were born after that fact.

But Peter and the 11 could not have known it before Acts 7, correct?
This quoted post emphasizes the distinction between a futurist framework like dispensationalism and progressive covenantalism.

In the framework of Progressive covenantalism, the Bible is one story about God reconciling humanity to Himself. The Last days/Latter Days (of the Mosaic Covenant) were foretold long ago:

Quoting article linked:

1. Jacob's Prediction of the Last Days:

Would you believe the first mention of the "last days" is in Genesis 49? "And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days ( NKJV)." Ironically, the first passage in the Bible that speaks of the last days is in the first book of the Bible and not the last. This passage speaks of the last days of the twelve tribes of Israel.
2. Moses' Warning to the Israelites:

In Deuteronomy 31:29, Moses tells the Israelites: "For I know that after my death you will act corruptly and turn from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days, for you will do that which is evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger with the work of your hands” (NASB). This verse is in the context of Deuteronomy 28-32 and Leviticus 26. God is establishing the Covenant with His people. God promises His people both coming blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. Study your cross references and you will find many fascinating connections to the New Testament -- particularly Romans 9-11 and the book of Revelation. From this passage you will begin to see that the last days spoken of in Deuteronomy 31:29 are speaking of the last days of the Old Covenant not the last days of the earth. ~ "Seven 'Last Days' Passages You'll Rarely Hear Pastors Preach On" Seven 'Last Days' Passages You'll Rarely Hear Pastors Preach On
 
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Guojing

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They did know this before. Jesus said this before the time of Acts 7 (and was quoting Psalm 118):

Matthew 21
38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?”41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.

This is from the Lord,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’(k)?
43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them.

Are you a fan of predetermination, or do you not believe humans have free will?

Of course, after Acts 7 has occurred, the 12 could have looked back and recalled Matthew 21, and say to themselves "Now I understood that it was foretold from the beginning"

That does not mean the Sanhedrin was "forced" to stone Stephen, the moment Jesus stated that in Matthew. They had the free will to decide there and then.

Omniscience does not mean no free will in humans, otherwise, you might as well say that Eve was forced to eat the fruit, just because God foreseen the fall.
 
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Guojing

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The old covenant's obsolescence wasn't because of the murder of Stephen? It was because of the Cross.

It was known that Jesus arrived during the old covenant last days because of Daniel's prophecy and the timeline that was known by Daniel's people. The forerunner of Jesus (John) had been preparing the people in the wilderness.

Luke 1
13But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. 14He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He shall never take wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. 16Many of the sons of Israel he will turn back to the Lord their God. 17And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children(a) and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Quoting Vladamir Moss:
In the fullness of time, in accordance with the plan that He had indicated to Adam and Eve immediately after the Fall, and in accordance with the sayings of the Old Testament prophets, God, the Creator of the universe, became a man in the womb of the Holy Virgin Mary.

Now Christ was also “the Son of David”, that is, a descendant of the old royal dynastic line of Israel; He came to restore that line and make it eternal. For, as the Archangel Gabriel said to the Virgin at the Annunciation: “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His Kingdom there will be no end” (Luke 1.32-33) ~ "CHRIST, ISRAEL AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM" CHRIST, ISRAEL AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM

I already stated to you the one year extension period after the cross, Luke 13:6-9
 
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BABerean2

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I already stated to you the one year extension period after the cross, Luke 13:6-9


Do you think Christ was confused in the verse below?

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


See Hebrews 9:15 below for the timing of when the New Covenant was consummated.

============================

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


.
 
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mkgal1

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Are you a fan of predetermination, or do you not believe humans have free will?
I wouldn't call God's omniscience "predetermination"......because, yes, I do believe in humanity's free will.

An example of God’s omniscience:

Matthew 24:1-2 ~ As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings. Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Quote from link:

Josephus describes the temple as such, “whatever was not overlaid with gold was purest white” (Josephus, Jewish War 5.5.6). King Herod had lavishly adorned the temple with gold. No one could imagine that this beautiful temple could be destroyed. In the year 70 C.E. the Romans, under Titus, burned and destroyed the temple to the ground. Not a stone in the temple was left unturned
"St. John's Episcopal Church, Huntington, NY - "All Will Be Thrown Down"" St. John's Episcopal Church, Huntington, NY - "All Will Be Thrown Down"
 
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mkgal1

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Omniscience does not mean no free will in humans, otherwise, you might as well say that Eve was forced to eat the fruit, just because God foreseen the fall.
I agree that omniscience doesn't mean humans have no free will. I'm not sure why you bring that up? In fact....the Temple religious leaders of Jesus's day seemed to believe they could exercise their will and "win out" over Jesus by having Him crucified. But we know it didn't work out that way.

John 11
47Then the chief priests and Pharisees convened the Sanhedrin(f) and said, “What are we to do? This man is performing many signs. 48If we let Him go on like this, everyone will believe in Him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”49But one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all! 50You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”51Caiaphas did not say this on his own. Instead, as high priest that year, he was prophesying that Jesus would die for the nation, 52and not only for the nation, but also for the scattered children of God, to gather them together into one.53So from that day on they plotted to kill Him.
 
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mkgal1

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That doesn't negate the fact that - just as Jesus had promised - the kingdom of God was, indeed, taken from the corrupt religious leaders within their generation (40 years later).

Like I said to another here, don't anticipate revelation. We know that now, because Israel's leaders stoned Stephen. We were born after that fact.

But Peter and the 11 could not have known it before Acts 7, correct?

If the Sanhedrin chose to accept Stephen's message, repent and be water baptized, then history would have changed course.
I'm confused as to why Acts 7 is being brought up?

The apostate religious leaders certainly knew the consequences of rejecting God based on what was written in the Scriptures they had memorized.
 
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