Was Jesus Actually Perfect?

GenemZ

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There really is not point in going back and forth with you on this unless you actually do the study yourself. You can keep bad mouthing those who adhere to God's Holy Word alone (the KJV), but until you look at the evidence and compare the KJV vs. the Modern Translations with an open mind, you are never going to see it. I mean, do you even have a perfect Word? Which one is it? You don't have one. But I do. I believe Jesus is perfect, and His Word is perfect because they have a symbiotic relationship with each other.
Why would God give us a translation for today that 90% of the English speaking world finds confusing, and at times totally obscure? Why would God want to do that to the average believer? WHY?
 
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Sir! Please stop. As long as you choose to hide in your world-view of the Bible? Nothing will convince.

Unless ... you witness to the Word of God being exegeted for yourself. Then you will know that all translations only serve as a point to make us curious for answers that no translation can provide in it self.

It does not say.. God gave us evangelists, pastor-teachers, and Bibles.

Does it? We need teachers who know the original languages just like the original church had. Bibles are good. But, without a proper teacher, Bibles merely become subjective thinking strongholds.

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I believe we are living in the last days as per 2 Timothy 3:1-9.

1 “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.” (2 Timothy 3:1-9) (KJB)

While I believe God does gift certain men the ability to teach, most are not teaching the correct way of God's Holy Word. So our reliance then rests upon God to teach us primarily and not men in these last days.

“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.” (1 John 2:27).

I believe teachers were more needed in the early church because they did not have a complete Bible. John is saying that these believers did not need them because they had the anointing of the Spirit. So even without a complete Bible, they had God's Spirit (the anointing) to teach them all things. But today, believers have access to both a complete Bible, and the anointing. Problem is that every Christian in the universe thinks they are in favor with God in understanding His Word, but this is simply not the case. Most are simply not reading and believing God's Word plainly. Many do not even know which sword is the very Word of God today. They think there is no sword and they have to create one to their own liking or preference. There are dire warnings to adding and taking away from God's Word.

My encouragement to you is to forget everything you know and take time with GOD and the Bible alone. Ask God what His Word says. Do you want to truly know what He says about Jesus being perfect, or the KJV vs. Modern Translation issue? Simply ask GOD in truly seeking the real truth. Ask GOD for the understanding on His Word (on His terms), and then compare Scripture with Scripture (without seeking to change what the text plainly says in our world language).
 
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Why would God give us a translation for today that 90% of the English speaking world finds confusing, and at times totally obscure? Why would God want to do that to the average believer? WHY?

I already gave you the answer. You simply don't like it. Proverbs 25:2.
 
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If you want to reach full maturity in Christ, you do. If you would only expose yourself to it, you would see an entire world of richness that you will wonder about. But, only if the Spirit leads you to do so.

Show me a Bible verse that supports the idea that we have to look to ancient dead languages in order to understand His Word. You will not find one. So your belief here is unbiblical. In fact, the Scriptures were changed to Greek for the New Testament and not Hebrew. This shows that GOD moves with the times. Greek was the world language at one time. Now, the world language is English. GOD is not the GOD of the dead, but of the living.
 
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Why would God give us a translation for today that 90% of the English speaking world finds confusing, and at times totally obscure? Why would God want to do that to the average believer? WHY?

The enemy will stop at nothing to hinder men's understanding of God's Holy Word.

Here is what an older person who lives in the UK has said:

“When I was at school we read the Authorized Version of the Bible (they call it the King James Version in the US). Our teachers explained the vocabulary and, of course, the content. We were taught about it. When it came to reading Shakespeare we were already familiar with seventeenth century English, and again our teachers explained the vocabulary and the content.

However, a few years ago my partner (who was a teacher) asked a teacher why the AV Bible was not used in school any more. That teacher replied: ‘because the students would not understand the words’. My partner was a bit puzzled by this but by discussion between us, and a knowledge of current teaching methods, we worked out 2 things: a) the teacher spoken to probably did not understand the vocabulary of the AV Bible, and b) teaching pupils explicitly, rather than let them find out by osmosis and discover learning, has been seen as anathema by the teaching profession for several decades, so explaining the vocabulary and the content cannot be done (because it is wrong, imposing our ideas on children etc, and is unnatural, while learning is a natural process which must be based on relevance to the children): the kids have to work it out for themselves (which is nigh on impossible).

So now children don’t read Shakespeare so well as their grandparents did.”


Source:
Do British people understand Shakespeare's English easily? As an American way back in high school, I had to use 'Shakespeare Made Easy' because I couldn't understand anything that Shakespeare wrote. - Quora
(Note: I do not endorse everything this person believes or says; I am merely in agreement with what they have stated on this matter).
 
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According to the Bible: The Word is not always easy to understand. For we learn that the words of Paul can sometimes be hard to understand. Those who did not learn what they know by God can wrest (twist) Paul's written words of the NT (that came by the inspiration of the Spirit) as they do other Scriptures.

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16).

“And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, ...” (1 Peter 2:8).​

In other words, a person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8). Both Jesus and His word are perfect. For Jesus spoke the very words of GOD, and Jesus Himself was GOD. The Bible we have today are the very words of GOD. They are perfect, and without error, just as Jesus is perfect and without error.
 
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Isilwen

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No you didn't.

I already made this point in my beginning conversation with you on this topic in post #324.

No, you continued to debate me after the fact. So, the truth is there and others who may read this topic will see it.
 
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Isilwen

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My encouragement to you is to forget everything you know and take time with GOD and the Bible alone. Ask God what His Word says. Do you want to truly know what He says about Jesus being perfect, or the KJV vs. Modern Translation issue? Simply ask GOD in truly seeking the real truth. Ask GOD for the understanding on His Word (on His terms), and then compare Scripture with Scripture (without seeking to change what the text plainly says in our world language).

I know I have done exactly that. I even asked Him to lead me to a Bible on two separate occasions.

However, you will not accept what I have to say because it doesn't follow with what you believe. Because He didn't lead me to a KJ Bible, it wasn't God according to you.

You will only ever accept that it was God if I said He lead me to a KJ Bible.
 
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Isilwen

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See folks. This proves that the KJV-only idea comes from the pits of hell. When faced with truth, it doesn't hold up. When the LightsLight against it, the darkness flees.

There is only reason why the idea was hatched, to cause division among Christians and keep us fighting amongst ourselves. Don't fall for it!
 
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GenemZ

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While I believe God does gift certain men the ability to teach, most are not teaching the correct way of God's Holy Word. So our reliance then rests upon God to teach us primarily and not men in these last days..


For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number
of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
2 Timothy 4:3​

Most bad vs few good teachers? So you throw them all out?

Not very smart thing to do if God wants you to seek and pray for the few to find. But, you? Give up and make yourself to be your own teacher? Not very smart....... according to God's Word.

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
2 Tim 4:3
Suit yourself... You want to hear that the KJV is the answer. Its not. Its just another translation with its own set of problems. But, again. Suit yourself.



For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.


......
 
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GenemZ

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See folks. This proves that the KJV-only idea comes from the pits of hell. When faced with truth, it doesn't hold up. When the LightsLight against it, the darkness flees.

There is only reason why the idea was hatched, to cause division among Christians and keep us fighting amongst ourselves. Don't fall for it!

It hatched because Satan loves to obscure truth while having people think they have the truth.
 
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To anyone who has ears to hear:

What you will not find is any biblical evidence for the OAO (Original Autograph Only) / Modern Translation movement in your Bible. The apostles did not look to some ancient dead language to understand God's Word and they did not compare many different translations that all differed from each other slightly. What you will read in Scripture is that the apostles accepted the Word of God in languages that they knew. What you will find are apostles who accepted only one version of Scripture and not different translations of Scripture.

Anyone can simply see the truth that there is one Word of God and that it is perfect and that it will exist for all generations. You can learn more here in this thread:

CF Thread - 30 Reasons Why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today
 
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Isilwen

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What you will read in Scripture is that the apostles accepted the Word of God in languages that they knew.

Good job! You have finally admitted that modern translations are fine. After all, not everyone can read or understand the KJV, but will read a modern translation as it is in a language that they know and understand. It's a small step for you, but a step forward none-the-less!
 
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Isilwen

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What you will find are apostles who accepted only one version of Scripture and not different translations of Scripture.

BTW, this is what one would call a stretch. How many translations of scripture were there back when the Apostles walked the earth?
 
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Der Alte

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Show me a Bible verse that supports the idea that we have to look to ancient dead languages in order to understand His Word. You will not find one. So your belief here is unbiblical. In fact, the Scriptures were changed to Greek for the New Testament and not Hebrew. This shows that GOD moves with the times. Greek was the world language at one time. Now, the world language is English. GOD is not the GOD of the dead, but of the living.
That challenge would make sense if the Bible only if it also said the entire world must learn 400+ year old Elizabethan English to understand scripture.
I have been serving in Korean churches for 40+ years. For people whose native language is not English the KJV is unintelligible. There are more than 800 words which have changed meaning or dropped out of use altogether.
So when I preach or teach I use a modern version which I trust such as the version my first Greek professor helped translate.
Recently I preached at our church in English. The pastor was away one of the deacons translated the sermon into Korean. Earlier the deacon told me he could not translate the benediction since he was not an ordained minister. The pastor had translated it into Korean so I read it.
 
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GenemZ

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To anyone who has ears to hear:

What you will not find is any biblical evidence for the OAO (Original Autograph Only) / Modern Translation movement in your Bible. The apostles did not look to some ancient dead language to understand God's Word and they did not compare many different translations that all differed from each other slightly. What you will read in Scripture is that the apostles accepted the Word of God in languages that they knew. What you will find are apostles who accepted only one version of Scripture and not different translations of Scripture.

Anyone can simply see the truth that there is one Word of God and that it is perfect and that it will exist for all generations. You can learn more here in this thread:

CF Thread - 30 Reasons Why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today


Are you trying to tell us the apostles taught from the KJV? I know you are not. But it would be what you wish you could say. The KJV is imperfect in many ways.

Here is a quote from your link.

I am not like your average KJV Proponent. While I believe the KJV is the perfect, and divinely inspired Word of God that is without error, I am unlike your average KJV Only Proponent; For many KJV Proponents will say that we should not even read Modern Translations, and that the KJV is not hard to understand. I disagree with both of those conclusions from my fellow KJV advocate brethren. Yes, I believe the KJV is the perfect inerrant Word of God, but I believe Modern Translations can be helpful in updating the 1600's English (as long as the KJV is our final word of authority)

Your copy is not written like the copy that was handed to King James, and has been revised.
 
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GenemZ

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To anyone who has ears to hear:

What you will not find is any biblical evidence for the OAO (Original Autograph Only) / Modern Translation movement in your Bible. The apostles did not look to some ancient dead language to understand God's Word and they did not compare many different translations that all differed from each other slightly. What you will read in Scripture is that the apostles accepted the Word of God in languages that they knew.


The knew Hebrew and Greek!!!!!!!!! Are you serious? Jewish males all learned to read the Torah from the Hebrew text. And, Greek was a common language spoken after the Roman occupation.

Are you trying to confuse some here by using the term "original autographs" to mean original languages? Its foolish to think such a thing.

I'll show you why. In your King James? Read Matthew 4:3-4. Read it.


Now, after reading Matthew 4:3-4? ... tell us what your King James is letting you know took place. What took place and was said in those two verses?

Come on. This is your moment to prove its superiority over the original languages.

You will fail to do so.
 
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