Covenant and New Covenant theology

Guojing said:

today yes I agree with you that the nation Israel has fallen so we gentiles have no need to go thru them, to be blessed

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Why would you assume all member of this forum are "gentiles"?


Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


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BABerean2 said:

Why would you assume all member of this forum are "gentiles"?


Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


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Are you an ethnic Jew? The body of Christ comprised largely of gentiles.

Anyway, if you are a Jew, nothing I said would change. There is no Jew and gentile in the body of Christ in the “but now” time period

Guojing said:

Are you an ethnic Jew? The body of Christ comprised largely of gentiles.

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The Northern tribes were taken into captivity hundreds of years before the time of Christ. Their DNA was spread throughout Asia, and Europe after that time.


Irish people take a DNA test, and discover some of them have Jewish ancestors.


The Jews of Jesus time considered the Samaritans to be "half-breeds", and looked down on them, even though they had a common ancestor.


Paul had to correct Peter for treating the Jewish believers differently than the Gentile believers, and some of us are making the same mistake today.


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BABerean2 said:

The Northern tribes were taken into captivity hundreds of years before the time of Christ. Their DNA was spread throughout Asia, and Europe after that time.


Irish people take a DNA test, and discover some of them have Jewish ancestors.

The Jews of Jesus time considered the Samaritans to be "half-breeds", and looked down on them, even though they had a common ancestor.


Paul had to correct Peter for treating the Jewish believers differently than the Gentile believers, and some of us are making the same mistake today.


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You keep raising that question to me, and when I finally ask you, you decline to give an answer, and go on a tangent.

Guojing said:

You keep raising that question to me, and when I finally ask you, you decline to give an answer, and go on a tangent.

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Modern Dispensational Theology is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race. This fact is not a "tangent".

Anyone who claims God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary, must have cut John 19:30 out of their Bibles.


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BABerean2 said:

Modern Dispensational Theology is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race. This fact is not a "tangent".

Anyone who claims God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary, must have cut John 19:30 out of their Bibles.


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You keep asking me why I assume every participant here is a non Jew, then when I ask you whether you are a Jew, you don’t even want to answer yes or no.

Guojing said:

You keep asking me why I assume every participant here is a non Jew, then when I ask you whether you are a Jew, you don’t even want to answer yes or no.

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Genetic studies of Europeans have proven I am a direct descendant of Abraham, which most probably came from the Northern tribes taken into captivity.

Since I am also of Scotch and Irish heritage, there is also a high probability that I have ancestors who were from the tribe of Judah.

Based on the verses below, does any of the above matter?


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Are you promoting Dual Covenant Theology, based on race?

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Guojing said:

Do you have no confidence in what you believe in?

None of us, who live in the "but now" time period, need to follow the Law of Moses, nor sacrifice an animal for our sins.

You will confidently say that, just like what I have stated above, correct?

So when the question is posed, "Could an OT saint like David also enjoy the same privileges, as we do being born after the cross", why is it so difficult for one to answer yes or no?

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I definitely have confidence in what I believe.

As I posted....the problem is the way the question is framed (not my level of confidence). The emphasis on rituals of the Mosaic Covenant (which were temporary) apart from the bigger covenant story skews a person's understanding of God’s desire for humanity.

I just shared this in another thread and it's also relevant here:

It's interesting to me that it seems that, even with a Temple system long-removed, people still seem preoccupied with the rituals and overlook the purpose. That seemed to be the issue thousands of years ago as well:

mkgal1 said:

I definitely have confidence in what I believe.

As I posted....the problem is the way the question is framed (not my level of confidence). The emphasis on rituals of the Mosaic Covenant (which were temporary) apart from the bigger covenant story skews a person's understanding of God’s desire for humanity.

I just shared this in another thread and it's also relevant here:

In Jeremiah 4:1–4, the prophet reminds the people that they cannot rightfully trust in the mark of circumcision for covenant blessings; rather, they have to experience the inner reality of a circumcised heart that the circumcision in their flesh is to signify. The Lord’s covenant of salvation has always been a covenant of the heart.

"Circumcision of the Heart | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org" Circumcision of the Heart​

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But you are not confident enough to answer a direct question?

BABerean2 said:

Genetic studies of Europeans have proven I am a direct descendant of Abraham, which most probably came from the Northern tribes taken into captivity.

Since I am also of Scotch and Irish heritage, there is also a high probability that I have ancestors who were from the tribe of Judah.

Based on the verses below, does any of the above matter?


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Are you promoting Dual Covenant Theology, based on race?

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Of course not, as I already stated to you, in the body of Christ in the but now period, there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

You know what that means right?

But this was not true in time past (Ephesians 2:11-13), something keras, and perhaps yourself, refuse to understand. (Exodus 19)

3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Guojing said:

But you are not confident enough to answer a direct question?

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Like I have said a few times - it's a misframed question that leads in the wrong direction.

Guojing said:

Of course not, as I already stated to you, in the body of Christ in the but now period, there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

You know what that means right?

But this was not true in time past (Ephesians 2:11-13), something keras, and perhaps yourself, refuse to understand. (Exodus 19)

3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

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And who is the fulfillment of Israel found in Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16, and by Christ in Luke 24:25-27?


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BABerean2 said:

And who is the fulfillment of Israel found in Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16, and by Christ in Luke 24:25-27?


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Again this was not true in time past.

Seems you find it difficult to accept this?

you are fortunate enough to be born after the cross, after the apostle Paul

that is why David call all of us blessed in romans 4

mkgal1 said:

Like I have said a few times - it's a misframed question that leads in the wrong direction.

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mkgal1 said:

Like I have said a few times - it's a misframed question that leads in the wrong direction.

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mkgal1 said:

Like I have said a few times - it's a misframed question that leads in the wrong direction.

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then would you frame it according to your liking and answer it?

Guojing said:

But this was not true in time past (Ephesians 2:11-13), something keras, and perhaps yourself, refuse to understand. (Exodus 19)

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'In times past', but not since Jesus came and offered Salvation to all.

Psalms 102:12-14 You, Lord are enthroned forever, Your fame will endure to all generations. You will arise and have mercy on Zion, for it is time to take pity on her; the appointed time has come. Hab. 2:3 The Land is dear to Your servants, even the dust and stones moves them to pity.
Psalms 102:15-17 The nations will revere Your Name and all the earthy leaders; Your glory, when You rebuild Zion again. On that Day You will hear the prayer of the destitute, He will not spurn their plea.

Psalms 102:18-22 This will be written down for future generations, so that people as yet unborn may praise the Lord. He looks down from His sanctuary on high and surveys the earth. He hears the groans of the captives and He sets free those under a death sentence. So; when the peoples are assembled to worship, in Jerusalem, the Name of the Lord will be praised.

Psalms 103:6-14 The Lord is righteous in all He does, He gives justice to those wronged. He revealed His ways to Moses and showed mighty deeds to the Israelites. The Lord is compassionate and gracious, longsuffering and He will not keep His anger forever. He has not treated us as our sins deserve, but as the heavens are far above the earth, so is His love for those who fear Him. In His compassion for us, He puts our offences far away, for He knows how we were made and remembers that we are but dust.

Psalms 106:4-5 Remember me, Lord, when you show favour to Your people, look on me when you save them, that I may see the prosperity of Your chosen ones, so that I may rejoice in Your nations joy and exult with Your own people.

Psalms 106:47-48 Deliver us, Lord our God and gather us from the nations, so that we may give thanks to Your holy Name, we will make Your praise our pride. Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel, from everlasting to everlasting – and the people say: AMEN. PRAISE THE LORD!

Isaiah 49:8-11 The Lord says; In the time of My favour, on the Day of Deliverance, I will come to your aid, you are My people; destined to be a light to the nations and to restore the Land. Go free now and in the Land, you will find food and water in plenty. It will not be too hot when the one who loves you will guide you along highways. My people, coming from all parts of the world, will shout for joy as they enter the Land. For the Lord has comforted His people in their distress. Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.


These verses describe a deliverance of ‘those who fear the Lord’. As ‘He looks down from on high and sets free the exiles’, so this must occur before the Return of Jesus. ‘My people, destined to be a light to the nations and to restore the Land’. Matthew 5:14-16

This is the second Exodus – ‘His people, coming from all parts of the world’, every faithful Christian will live in the new country of Beulah in peace and security. Isaiah 62:1-5
It is them who greet the Returning Jesus with: ‘Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord’.

Guojing said:

then would you frame it according to your liking and answer it?

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Okay. Based only on this passage, what do you see that God desires from humanity?

mkgal1 said:

Okay. Based only on this passage, what do you see that God desires from humanity?

Psalm 40:4-8
4Blessed is the man

who has made the LORD his trust,

who has not turned to the proud,

nor to those who lapse into falsehood.a

5Many, O LORD my God,

are the wonders You have done,

and the plans You have for us—

none can compare to You—

if I proclaim and declare them,

they are more than I can count.

6Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,

but my ears You have opened.b

Burnt offerings and sin offerings

You did not require.

7Then I said, “Here I am, I have come—

it is written about me in the scroll:8I delight to do Your will, O my God;c

Your law is within my heart.”​

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This is where David is prophesying about the coming Christ who will fufill the Law and die on the cross as the perfect sacrifice.

Instead, are you using this psalm, out of its context, to convince yourself that during the OT, no one needed to offer sacrifices and offerings when they sin, since David is saying God don't desire them?

keras said:

'In times past', but not since Jesus came and offered Salvation to all.

Psalms 102:12-14 You, Lord are enthroned forever, Your fame will endure to all generations. You will arise and have mercy on Zion, for it is time to take pity on her; the appointed time has come. Hab. 2:3 The Land is dear to Your servants, even the dust and stones moves them to pity.
Psalms 102:15-17 The nations will revere Your Name and all the earthy leaders; Your glory, when You rebuild Zion again. On that Day You will hear the prayer of the destitute, He will not spurn their plea.

Psalms 102:18-22 This will be written down for future generations, so that people as yet unborn may praise the Lord. He looks down from His sanctuary on high and surveys the earth. He hears the groans of the captives and He sets free those under a death sentence. So; when the peoples are assembled to worship, in Jerusalem, the Name of the Lord will be praised.

Psalms 103:6-14 The Lord is righteous in all He does, He gives justice to those wronged. He revealed His ways to Moses and showed mighty deeds to the Israelites. The Lord is compassionate and gracious, longsuffering and He will not keep His anger forever. He has not treated us as our sins deserve, but as the heavens are far above the earth, so is His love for those who fear Him. In His compassion for us, He puts our offences far away, for He knows how we were made and remembers that we are but dust.

Psalms 106:4-5 Remember me, Lord, when you show favour to Your people, look on me when you save them, that I may see the prosperity of Your chosen ones, so that I may rejoice in Your nations joy and exult with Your own people.

Psalms 106:47-48 Deliver us, Lord our God and gather us from the nations, so that we may give thanks to Your holy Name, we will make Your praise our pride. Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel, from everlasting to everlasting – and the people say: AMEN. PRAISE THE LORD!

Isaiah 49:8-11 The Lord says; In the time of My favour, on the Day of Deliverance, I will come to your aid, you are My people; destined to be a light to the nations and to restore the Land. Go free now and in the Land, you will find food and water in plenty. It will not be too hot when the one who loves you will guide you along highways. My people, coming from all parts of the world, will shout for joy as they enter the Land. For the Lord has comforted His people in their distress. Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.


These verses describe a deliverance of ‘those who fear the Lord’. As ‘He looks down from on high and sets free the exiles’, so this must occur before the Return of Jesus. ‘My people, destined to be a light to the nations and to restore the Land’. Matthew 5:14-16

This is the second Exodus – ‘His people, coming from all parts of the world’, every faithful Christian will live in the new country of Beulah in peace and security. Isaiah 62:1-5
It is them who greet the Returning Jesus with: ‘Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord’.

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So now, you are able to understand the difference between time past and but now? That is great.

Guojing said:

Again this was not true in time past.

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Are you claiming the passage below is not about the past?

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Beginning in the first five books of the Bible and then "all" the prophets, He expounded to them the scriptures about Himself.

This reveals the fact that the whole Bible is about the Lord Jesus Christ.

Was this true in the past?

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