Really? You think God is going to destroy *this*?

parousia70

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All Full Preterists deny the second coming of Christ and a future general resurrection of mankind.
I agree Full Preterists do this.
Also, I'm not one of them.

The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.
Rather, "we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of OUR BODY." Body is singluar there, and means the body of the believers -- those saints who had received the firstfruits as well as the rest of creation that believed PRIOR to the time of the Holy Spirit. They all were groaning together in the hope of salvation which was only a hope as of Romans 8:24-25.

Read Hebrews 9:24-28: "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

So according to this verse, some sort of "end of the world" came 2000 years ago...Yet you plainly Reject the words of the Inspired Writer.

Hebrews 9 outlines the two important central redemptive events that should always be to the fore of the thinking of the New Testament Church. That is Christ’s atonement, which purchased our redemption, and, secondly, His Coming to finally complete that process.

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

Romans 8 has absolutely nothing at all to do with the Resurrection of the Dead. That giving of life to the mortal body in that passage was so they could mortify the deeds of their flesh and not be debtors to it to obey its lusts. Note the statment: "If you THROUGH THE SPIRIT mortify the deeds of the body you shall live."

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

AGAIN, "we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of OUR BODY." Body is singluar there, and means the body of the believers -- those saints who had received the firstfruits as well as the rest of creation that believed PRIOR to the time of the Holy Spirit. They all were groaning together in the hope of salvation which was only a hope as of Romans 8:24-25.

Romans 8:23-25 is NOT the resurrection of bodies but is the redemption of "OUR BODY" (singular), which equates here to the redemption of the Church. Paul here shows that having the Holy Spirit and believing was "AN EARNEST" UNTIL the redemption. When did the redemption occur? The scripture tells us plainly:

Luke 21:28
But WHEN these things begin to happen, look up, and lift up your heads, because your redemption is near."

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption

Now, for you that hasn't happened yet, which is why you cannot go to heaven at death. You will wait perhaps for thousands of years after your death to be individualy conscious and sentient. Sweet victory in Jesus??? For the partial preterist, however, this is PAST and therefore I can and will go to heaven's bliss and inheritance instantly when my earthly body is deceased and I receive my new body from heaven according to 2 Cor 5:1-2. And so we partial preterists boldly proclaim what you cannot even hope to utter at this present time. Namely, that:

(#1) I have the redemption and am fully redeemed. I am not groaning for it nor waiting for it while hanging on to a pledge/earnest that someday it will come.

--AND--

#2) Where, O Death, is thy sting? where, O Hades, is thy victory?

What a depressing and weak eschatology that teaches that the redemption has not come yet nearly 20 centuries after Christ came at a specific time in history, indeed at the end of the world(Hebrews 9:24-28) with a hope to accomplish that very task (Galatians 4:4-5). And even more depressing may be the fact that your eschatology teaches that the Advent of Christ did NOTHING to change the state of the afterlife for all who have been among the dead going back to Adam and Eve! In your theology the great O.T. saints still don't even know Jesus Christ has come yet -- they're unconscious! It's unthinkable, yet it is what you teach.

Partial Preterism is an eschatology of victory over death!

I encourage you to repent and desist of your error over Romans 8:14-25. May God have mercy and give you clarity on his treasured teaching about the redemption, a redemption that you claim you do not have yet, but that preterists KNOW we have had since the end of the Age of Moses at AD 70 when that curse and bondage over the saints was removed from the planet forever.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I agree Full Preterists do this.
Also, I'm not one of them.


Rather, "we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of OUR BODY." Body is singluar there, and means the body of the believers -- those saints who had received the firstfruits as well as the rest of creation that believed PRIOR to the time of the Holy Spirit. They all were groaning together in the hope of salvation which was only a hope as of Romans 8:24-25.



So according to this verse, some sort of "end of the world" came 2000 years ago...Yet you plainly Reject the words of the Inspired Writer.



Romans 8 has absolutely nothing at all to do with the Resurrection of the Dead. That giving of life to the mortal body in that passage was so they could mortify the deeds of their flesh and not be debtors to it to obey its lusts. Note the statment: "If you THROUGH THE SPIRIT mortify the deeds of the body you shall live."



AGAIN, "we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of OUR BODY." Body is singluar there, and means the body of the believers -- those saints who had received the firstfruits as well as the rest of creation that believed PRIOR to the time of the Holy Spirit. They all were groaning together in the hope of salvation which was only a hope as of Romans 8:24-25.

Romans 8:23-25 is NOT the resurrection of bodies but is the redemption of "OUR BODY" (singular), which equates here to the redemption of the Church. Paul here shows that having the Holy Spirit and believing was "AN EARNEST" UNTIL the redemption. When did the redemption occur? The scripture tells us plainly:

Luke 21:28
But WHEN these things begin to happen, look up, and lift up your heads, because your redemption is near."

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption

Now, for you that hasn't happened yet, which is why you cannot go to heaven at death. You will wait perhaps for thousands of years after your death to be individualy conscious and sentient. Sweet victory in Jesus??? For the partial preterist, however, this is PAST and therefore I can and will go to heaven's bliss and inheritance instantly when my earthly body is deceased and I receive my new body from heaven according to 2 Cor 5:1-2. And so we partial preterists boldly proclaim what you cannot even hope to utter at this present time. Namely, that:

(#1) I have the redemption and am fully redeemed. I am not groaning for it nor waiting for it while hanging on to a pledge/earnest that someday it will come.

--AND--

#2) Where, O Death, is thy sting? where, O Hades, is thy victory?

What a depressing and weak eschatology that teaches that the redemption has not come yet nearly 20 centuries after Christ came at a specific time in history with a hope to accomplish that very task (Gal 4:4-5). And even more depressing may be the fact that your eschatology teaches that the Advent of Christ did NOTHING to change the state of the afterlife for all who have been among the dead going back to Adam and Eve! In your theology the great O.T. saints still don't even know Jesus Christ has come yet -- they're unconscious! It's unthinkable, yet it is what you teach.

Partial Preterism is an eschatology of victory over death!

I encourage you to repent and desist of your error over Romans 8:14-25. God may have mercy and give you clarity on his treasured teaching about the redemption, a redemption that you do not have yet but that preterists have had since the end of the Age of Moses at AD 70 when that curse and bondage over the saints was removed from the planet forever.

Please do not speak on behalf of Partial Preterism. Your views are contrary to it and in keeping with Full Preterism. It is only the heretics that deny the literal physical future second coming and literal physical future resurrection of mankind.
 
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Timtofly

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It is only the heretics that deny the literal physical future second coming and literal physical future resurrection of mankind.
And which physical resurrection are you denying in Revelation 20 if it is recap? The first resurrection according to you happened 1990 years ago, but you refuse to answer who was resurrected. They have brand new incorruptible bodies because they were judged and found worthy of such bodies. They have been living on earth for the last 1990 years. They are waiting in Jerusalem with Christ for Satan’s army to attack them. That is your recap scenario.
 
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sovereigngrace

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And which physical resurrection are you denying in Revelation 20 if it is recap? The first resurrection according to you happened 1990 years ago, but you refuse to answer who was resurrected. They have brand new incorruptible bodies because they were judged and found worthy of such bodies. They have been living on earth for the last 1990 years. They are waiting in Jerusalem with Christ for Satan’s army to attack them. That is your recap scenario.

Repeated Scripture shows that we only get our incorruptible bodies when Jesus comes. What occurred 2000 years ago was no different to what occurred to Lazarus. He did not conquer death. Jesus was the first to do that. Nowhere does it say these were incorruptible bodies. Once again, you present no text that teaches that.

You argue a lot from silence.
 
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parousia70

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Please do not speak on behalf of Partial Preterism. Your views are contrary to it and in keeping with Full Preterism.

You accusations continue to be empty of evidence.

If you could link even ONE view I have espoused that is NOT Consistent with Partial Preterism, you would have done so by now.

But you can't.

You argue a lot from silence.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You accusations continue to be empty of evidence.

If you could link even ONE view I have espoused that is NOT Consistent with Partial Preterism, you would have done so by now.

But you can't.

You argue a lot from silence.

That is not right. You are always rubbishing a future glorious and climactic literal physical return of Christ to physically restore man and creation, including the physical resurrection of mankind to face the final judgment. You explain away the introduction of the NHNE and regeneration of the physical earth and heavens. This is viewed by the Church through the centuries as heresy.
 
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parousia70

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That is not right. You are always rubbishing a future glorious and climactic literal physical return of Christ to physically restore man and creation, including the physical resurrection of mankind to face the final judgment. You explain away the introduction of the NHNE and regeneration of the physical earth and heavens. This is viewed by the Church through the centuries as heresy.

Again, all I and our readers see here is accusations without evidence.
You accuse, yet continue to have provided a grand total of ZERO examples to show.

Our readers are smart enough to know an argument from silence when they see it.
 
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