Trump tells followers in North Carolina to vote twice:

The Barbarian · Sep 2, 2020

Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system
The president said it would be a way to check whether anti-fraud efforts are "as good as they say."
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system

Two of his followers went to jail after the 2016 elections for doing just that. They even used that excuse.

And I'm guessing a lot of them will be stupid enough to try it.

He trying to sabotage the election to sooth his ego. He might not realize that if the election is voided, he doesn't stay in office. In January, Nancy Pelosi becomes president.

Albion · Sep 2, 2020

It is wrong to spread false information as we get closer to the election.

The President did NOT encourage North Carolinians or anyone else to vote twice.

This is quite evident when his own words are read. Fortunately, the NBC article quotes them so that all can see, even if NBC misrepresents the meaning of his remarks.

Indeed, the article indicates as much by going on to add the following:

Trump has made countless false statements about the security of voting by mail ahead of the election as much of the country braces for an increase of voters who opt for mail-in ballots during the coronavirus pandemic.

So here we see that the article is an editorial, not a news report, because Trump's statements about mail-in voting are not false, although that is the allegation.

It is certain that cheating by mail-in ballots is easier to do than cheating at the precinct by use of a voting machine. Anyone who has any familiarity with the procedures involved with either voting method knows this.

Richard T · Sep 2, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system
The president said it would be a way to check whether anti-fraud efforts are "as good as they say."
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system

Two of his followers went to jail after the 2016 elections for doing just that. They even used that excuse.

And I'm guessing a lot of them will be stupid enough to try it.

He trying to sabotage the election to sooth his ego. He might not realize that if the election is voided, he doesn't stay in office. In January, Nancy Pelosi becomes president.

You are assuming the Pelosi election can be verified. If the voting is suspect nationwide, no House member will be certified either. Thus, the next in line would be the Senate pro-tempore. 34 or so Senators would have their terms expire. The remaining 66 are a majority democrat, they would then elect the Pro-Tempore and he/she would be the President. It could even be Kamala Harris as she ould still be one of the 66 or so remaining Senators that still have some years in their terms.

jgarden · Sep 3, 2020

Trump suggests North Carolina residents vote twice. Which is ...
www.morningstar.com › news › marketwatch › trump-s..
5 hours ago - Voting twice is illegal under both North Carolina (link)and federal law (link). ... is set up, it is "clerically impossible for a person to vote twice," because once ... to say whether voting twice is illegal (it unequivocally is), telling host ...

Trump appears to encourage North Carolinians to vote twice ...
www.cnn.com › donald-trump-north-carolina-voter-fraud
7 hours ago - President Donald Trump on Wednesday appeared to encourage people in North Carolina to vote twice -- once by mail and once in person ...

Trump tells voters to vote twice, once by mail and once in ...
globalnews.ca › news › trump-election-vote-twice
3 hours ago - He also wouldn't refute Trump's comments about voting twice, citing ignorance of North Carolina's voting laws. “I don't know what the law in that ...

Trump Encourages People in North Carolina to Vote Twice ...
www.nytimes.com › U.S. › Politics
9 hours ago - Voting twice in the same election is illegal. But Mr. Trump's suggestion that people should vote twice is one he has discussed privately with aides ...

Trump suggests voting twice, once by mail and once in person ...
www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2020/09/02
8 hours ago - If it isn't tabulated, they'll be able to vote,” Trump said. Intentionally voting twice is illegal, and in many states, including North Carolina, it is a ...

Trump seemingly encourages North Carolina residents to try ...
www.politico.com › news › 2020/09/02 › trump-vote-t...
8 hours ago - Trump seemingly encourages North Carolina residents to try to vote twice. The president said voters could send a mail ballot and then try to vote ... Trump has repeatedly denigrated mail-in voting, saying without evidence that ...

Trump suggests North Carolina residents vote twice. Which is ...
www.marketwatch.com › story › trump-suggests-north-ca...
5 hours ago - Voting twice is illegal under both North Carolina and federal law. In North Carolina, it is also illegal “to induce” someone else to fraudulently cast a ...

Trump suggests North Carolina residents try to vote twice as a ...
www.usatoday.com › politics › elections › 2020/09/02
6 hours ago - Voting twice in the same election is illegal, and doing so deliberately is an example of the very kind of voter fraud that Trump has spent months ...
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Morningstar
CNN
Global News
New York Times
Washington Post
Politico
Marketwatch
USA Today

The video shows this President clearly advising his followers to vote by mail and then vote a second time in person to determine if the system will prevent you the 2nd time - that is the interpretation of Trump's comments by the nation's major news outlets!

32-1534. Voting more than once; penalty. Any person who votes more than once at the same election shall be guilty of a Class IV felony

It would appear that Trump is deliberately trying to plant the seeds of confusion to delay the release of the final results - that feeds right into his narrative that any delay only provides his opponents with more opportunity to "rig" the vote!

Yekcidmij · Sep 3, 2020

Richard T said:
You are assuming the Pelosi election can be verified. If the voting is suspect nationwide, no House member will be certified either. Thus, the next in line would be the Senate pro-tempore. 34 or so Senators would have their terms expire. The remaining 66 are a majority democrat, they would then elect the Pro-Tempore and he/she would be the President. It could even be Kamala Harris as she ould still be one of the 66 or so remaining Senators that still have some years in their terms.

Well, if neither candidate can achieve a majority of Electoral votes (for whatever reason), then the decision goes to the House for President and Senate for Vice President. The House would vote by delegation (so one vote per state) and Trump has a very slight edge with about 26 states. But it would be the new congress that would vote, not the current one. There is a possibility that, by delegation, the new House would be split 25-25. The Senate would likely vote Pence as VP, so under the 20th Amendment, if the House couldn't agree on who to vote for as President, then Pence would be sworn in as VP and become acting President. However, if the Senate ended up locked up as well, then under the 20th Amendment the Speaker of the House becomes acting President, which would undoubtedly be Pelosi. There is no need to "certify" her (whatever you think that means) as the 20th Amendment makes it clear.

The worst outcome possible is that neither candidate achieves a majority in the electoral college and the legislature is split with each party controlling one chamber.

The Barbarian · Sep 3, 2020

Richard T said:
You are assuming the Pelosi election can be verified.

Which would be the responsibility and the right of each state to determine. So unlikely that California would have the same kind of voter suppression you will be seeing in red states. The state results would have to be verified by the whoever has that responsibility in the state. It's a straw, but not a very good one to grasp.

If the voting is suspect nationwide, no House member will be certified either.

See above. If the state of California certifies her win, it's legal. No way around it. This is one of the several reasons why many republican leaders aren't supporting Trump's attempts to disrupt the 2020 elections.

Lord Vega · Sep 3, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system
The president said it would be a way to check whether anti-fraud efforts are "as good as they say."
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system

Two of his followers went to jail after the 2016 elections for doing just that. They even used that excuse.

And I'm guessing a lot of them will be stupid enough to try it.

He trying to sabotage the election to sooth his ego. He might not realize that if the election is voided, he doesn't stay in office. In January, Nancy Pelosi becomes president.

Call me incredulous, but I feel doubtful that Trump actually said that. He comes across as very confident, so confident to the extent that you could say he has a slight case of narcissism. Not a severe case, but a very minor one. In his mind, he must think he has already achieved victory due to his impressively sized ego. For this reason, I can’t imagine Trump getting so desperate to encourage his supporters to do something illegal. That’s just my two cents.

The Barbarian · Sep 3, 2020

Lord Vega said:
Call me incredulous, but I feel doubtful that Trump actually said that.

Trump has adopted the old republican advice: "Vote Early, vote often."

He lied about a "mess everywhere mail-in voting happens." There never has been a problem. But now he's telling his followers to make one.

Interestingly two Trump voters were arrested in the 2016 elections for doing just what he advised them to do this week. They used the same excuses he used, too.

Lord Vega · Sep 3, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Trump has adopted the old republican advice: "Vote Early, vote often."

He lied about a "mess everywhere mail-in voting happens." There never has been a problem. But now he's telling his followers to make one.

Interestingly two Trump voters were arrested in the 2016 elections for doing just what he advised them to do this week. They used the same excuses he used, too.

Touché.

Honestly, I don't see an issue with mail-in voting, especially given the fact that we're in a pandemic right now. In fact, I'll probably do a mail-in vote myself, since I live with my parents right now (they are in their early 60s) and I don't want to take a chance on getting coronavirus at a long voting line and then infecting them, which could be a death sentence for folks of their age. Trump and other Republicans who allege mail-in voting is ripe for fraud are presuming bad faith on the Democrats. The truth is that cheating can go either way. There are good Democrats and bad Democrats, and there are good Republicans and bad Republicans. It really isn't right to make sweeping generalizations about people and assume they have bad faith just because of their views.

For all Trump's flaws, I still believe his heart is in the right place, since he genuinely wants to make America great again and keep America great. You probably disagree with this opinion, but for what it's worth I think Trump is a good man with good intentions despite his imperfections.

renniks · Sep 3, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system
The president said it would be a way to check whether anti-fraud efforts are "as good as they say."
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system

Two of his followers went to jail after the 2016 elections for doing just that. They even used that excuse.

And I'm guessing a lot of them will be stupid enough to try it.

He trying to sabotage the election to sooth his ego. He might not realize that if the election is voided, he doesn't stay in office. In January, Nancy Pelosi becomes president.

Lol, wow, you are reaching. Obviously one cannot vote twice if the system of working.

renniks · Sep 3, 2020

Lord Vega said:
Honestly, I don't see an issue with mail-in voting, especially given the fact that we're in a pandemic right now. In fact, I'll probably do a mail-in vote myself, since I live with my parents right now (they are in their early 60s) and I don't want to take a chance on getting coronavirus at a long voting line and then infecting them, which could be a death sentence for folks of their age. Trump and other Republicans who allege mail-in voting is ripe for fraud are presuming bad faith on the Democrats. The truth is that cheating can go either way. There are good Democrats and bad Democrats, and there are good Republicans and bad Republicans. It really isn't right to make sweeping generalizations about people and assume they have bad faith just because of their views.

So why would either side want mass ballots mailed, when we know a lot of dead people are going to be voting? In other words, Grandma's ballot going to come to your house, even though Grandma's been gone for 5 years. So you can send it in and gain another vote for your candidate. Why would either side want that uncertainty in the system. Absentee ballots are not the same... they have to be requested. And then there's a question of whether the mail service can even handle the volume and get everything in on time...

Yekcidmij · Sep 3, 2020

Lord Vega said:
Touché.

Honestly, I don't see an issue with mail-in voting, especially given the fact that we're in a pandemic right now. In fact, I'll probably do a mail-in vote myself, since I live with my parents right now (they are in their early 60s) and I don't want to take a chance on getting coronavirus at a long voting line and then infecting them, which could be a death sentence for folks of their age. Trump and other Republicans who allege mail-in voting is ripe for fraud are presuming bad faith on the Democrats. The truth is that cheating can go either way. There are good Democrats and bad Democrats, and there are good Republicans and bad Republicans. It really isn't right to make sweeping generalizations about people and assume they have bad faith just because of their views.

For all Trump's flaws, I still believe his heart is in the right place, since he genuinely wants to make America great again and keep America great. You probably disagree with this opinion, but for what it's worth I think Trump is a good man with good intentions despite his imperfections.

It's all politics. Republicans are preferring to vote in person, Democrats preferring to vote by mail.

Biden supporters in states where it is hardest to vote by mail are most concerned about voting this fall

So, surprise surprise, lo and behold.....Trump and company are against voting by mail and Biden and company are for it. Each side has a self interest in their position, it's that simple.

Redwingfan9 · Sep 3, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system
The president said it would be a way to check whether anti-fraud efforts are "as good as they say."
Trump encourages North Carolina residents to vote twice to test mail-in system

Two of his followers went to jail after the 2016 elections for doing just that. They even used that excuse.

And I'm guessing a lot of them will be stupid enough to try it.

He trying to sabotage the election to sooth his ego. He might not realize that if the election is voided, he doesn't stay in office. In January, Nancy Pelosi becomes president.

I'm fairly certain he's being sarcastic but he shouldn't say such a thing. Having said that it's an interesting legal question as to whether someone can vote twice. I'm not sure there is a Federal law on the books ( I'm too tired to research it today). With 50 states I imagine most have a law on the books banning voting twice. It wouldn't shock me though if one state doesn't have such a law on the books, if only because they didn't consider such a non-issue important enough to legislate.

As for invalidating a Presidential election, there is no constitutional basis for that to happen. But let's say the election was invalidated. Pelsoi would not become President. Instead, because the electoral college would not produce a 270 vote winner the election would be decided by the House with the delegations of the 50 states voting and each state receiving one vote. Trump would be re-elected by the House or perhaps thr Republicans would pick a compromise candidate like Pence.

Albion · Sep 3, 2020

Lord Vega said:
Touché.

Honestly, I don't see an issue with mail-in voting, especially given the fact that we're in a pandemic right now. In fact, I'll probably do a mail-in vote myself, since I live with my parents right now (they are in their early 60s) and I don't want to take a chance on getting coronavirus at a long voting line and then infecting them, which could be a death sentence for folks of their age.

Unfortunately, it takes quite a lot of time to detail all the ways that massive mail-in voting can turn into either unintended but nevertheless inaccurate election results or actual vote fraud.

And if we were to just concentrate on the latter, then about a half-dozen very dangerous changes in the voting system that Pelosi, for one, has been pushing for have to be explained as to why these invite fraud.

Then of course, if all of that were carefully explained with both the 'how to' and the consequences, the skeptic is almost certain to reply by saying it never happens.

That means that the task of collecting proven and consequential examples of both vote fraud and simple ineptitude making for erroneous vote counting have to be assembled and explained further.

But for anyone who is interested in this threat to our democracy, the facts are there, they are easily accessed, and they cannot be denied.

Albion · Sep 3, 2020

Yekcidmij said:
So, surprise surprise, lo and behold.....Trump and company are against voting by mail and Biden and company are for it. Each side has a self interest in their position, it's that simple.

No, it's not, and the reason is even simpler. It probably would be possible to have just about everyone vote by mail and have the outcome be honest. But none of that is under consideration.

What is being done, either by the dictates of state officials without any legislative approval or by proposed changes in the law in states where the legislators see the advantage to their respective political parties is to rush into place changes that are not safe, which are easily perverted. This is what people who respect the right to vote in free elections are worried about.

In the name of making it easy for every person to vote, a system with laxity that would never be allowed in the food industry or medicine or the banking system is poised to be in control of our elections.

hislegacy · Sep 3, 2020

On Wednesday, the president told supporters gathered at the Wilmington airport that, “If you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go -- make sure it counted,” according to NPR.

“If it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. You just vote. And then if they tabulate it very late, which they shouldn’t be doing, they’ll see you voted, and so it won’t count,” Trump said. “So, send it in early, and then go and vote.”

The Barbarian · Sep 3, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
I'm fairly certain he's being sarcastic but he shouldn't say such a thing.

It's basically instructing his followers to commit felonies. Which, considering that some of them have already been jailed for doing that in the past, is a very stupid thing to do.

Redwingfan9 said:
With 50 states I imagine most have a law on the books banning voting twice.

Ya think?

Redwingfan9 said:
It wouldn't shock me though if one state doesn't have such a law on the books, if only because they didn't consider such a non-issue important enough to legislate.

Who would have thought that someone like Donald Trump would actually become president?

Redwingfan9 said:
As for invalidating a Presidential election, there is no constitutional basis for that to happen. But let's say the election was invalidated. Pelsoi would not become President. Instead, because the electoral college would not produce a 270 vote winner the election would be decided by the House with the delegations of the 50 states voting and each state receiving one vote.

No. That would happen only if there were electors. But if the election was invalidated, there would be no electors. So the Speaker of the House would become president, as provided by the Constitution.

The Barbarian · Sep 3, 2020

hislegacy said:
On Wednesday, the president told supporters gathered at the Wilmington airport that, “If you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go -- make sure it counted,

He suggested that the see, by voting again. That's the felony part. Last presidential elections, two of his followers got arrested for doing just that. And they used pretty much the same excuse Trump used.

Redwingfan9 · Sep 3, 2020

The Barbarian said:
It's basically instructing his followers to commit felonies. Which, considering that some of them have already been jailed for doing that in the past, is a very stupid thing to do.

Ya think?

Who would have thought that someone like Donald Trump would actually become president?

No. That would happen only if there were electors. But if the election was invalidated, there would be no electors. So the Speaker of the House would become president, as provided by the Constitution.

There is absolutely no Constitutional mechanism in which there would not be electors. Even if there were no electors, the Constitution indicates that if a candidate does not get 270 electoral votes the President is chosen by the House. Like it or not, that would be the default in your fantasy land of an invalidated election.

Yekcidmij · Sep 3, 2020

The Barbarian said:
That would happen only if there were electors.

There will certainly be electors. Now, how many electors there are may be up for grabs, but there are mechanisms to deal with this.

Trump tells followers in North Carolina to vote twice:

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