Is Satan a real being or a term to identify any enemy or concept opposing God?

SkyWriting

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Reality is subjective or relative. One can have a thought, which may be true or false, but in both cases the thought is real, a real true thought or a real false thought. Here reality is defined by it's usage and so there are many realities. If we think in terms of the universe, everything known and unknown included we arrive at a place where our brains get over loaded because the unknown is infinitely great; in as far as we able to perceive there is such a reality our perceptions are different to the actual reality. We presume the reality exists, but our perceptions depend on and are defined by our senses and our cogitative powers whereas the real reality does not depend on human consent or awareness; the opposite is true, our sense of reality is dependent on our awareness.

There are scientists, unable to resolve problems as they push the boundaries into the unknown, conclude that the universe is a giant hologram controlled by a source of intelligence.

It is an assumption that there is a spiritual realm, the Judeo/Christian religion depends on that being so; it is a safe assumption. All our realities have an assumption base; all mathematical proofs begin or end with an assumption depending whether the proof is worked forward or backward; an assumption so obviously true no one would dispute it.

Men do not create the Laws governing the universe, they discover them. The scientists of old, like Newton and his piers ran into problems that made them doubt their science; Einstein began with these problems but as I see it Einstein's solutions are way out there and can only be challenged by equations. Einstein said the mass of an object travelling at the speed of light is infinite; I do not know that Einstein said that, but if he did then this is a mathematical statement and it means that there would not be enough time in a persons life to do the calculation, or write the number down or enough paper and ink to write the number down. I have had experience with exponential expansion before; as soon as I post this I will have a crack at it.

God is Spirit, so is Satan.
Matthew 8:28-32
And when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met him, coming out of the tombs, so fierce that no one could pass that way. And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” Now a herd of many pigs was feeding at some distance from them. And the demons begged him, saying, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs.” And he said to them, “Go.” So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters.
 
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Dan1988

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Dan said, "I can list 120 verses which according to you would prove that God is a Calvinist as well."

No you can't. You can't even find a verse in scripture that links salvation and election.

How much do you know about John Calvin? Calvin was involved with the murder of Michael Servetus over some doctrinal points. Calvin is just as guilty as the magistrates involved since Calvin was the leader of Geneva at the time. Calvin is an unrepentant murderer. Now if they both went to heaven it would be pretty awkward wouldn't it? Calvin was a tyrannical dictator which reminds me of their followers. I noticed whilst searching the information that modern Calvinists kinda whitewash Calvin's involvement but I read a lot about Calvin in the early eighties and many critics were scathing of Calvin. Like Father like Son I guess.
Yep you have summed up the MO of your Arminian cult. You guys always stoop down to the lowest common denominator, you tactic is to attack the personality of anyone who proclaims the truth because you know you can't attack the truth of what Calvin taught.

You Armininan cultists ignore the facts and refuse to deal with them because it's easier to stoop ;ow and talk about a few of Calvins little mistakes, like you guys never made any. That's hypocrisy at it worst, I'm not interested in the slightest in anything Calvin did in his private life. I skimmed over what you wrote abut him because I don't want to know that irrelevant and useless information.

God loves murderers and adulterers, so it has nothing to do with anything. I see you don't have a clue about what the scriptures teach on election and reprobation, you don't want the facts to burst your bubble. So if you ever reach a point where you become ready to face the truth, then do a bit of study into these Bible doctrines so you can hold a rational discussion instead of stooping down.
 
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Steven Beck

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To me this is not relative to the context in which the word was defined ... What age were you implying by that word that leads you to ask?
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OK fair enough. When a child is taught to read and they learn comprehension do they begin with Tolstoy or kinda start with Spot? Understanding scripture is not about picking a book (Revelation) and expecting them to understand that or picking a random verse etc etc. You put too much weight on understanding in an academic sense. Some people have said that they gave gave their heart to Jesus at a young age of 5 or 6. If that is true then they must have 'understood scripture' to come to that decision.
However having said that children have great perception which is a different type of understanding to the knowledge based understanding that adults have. Most adults would have the gift of perception but it is beaten out of them as kids and also falls into disuse because of lack of practice. Children followed Jesus in His time on earth because they perceived His character. A child who has great perception reads Revelation they can understand that God wins and evil loses.

I realize you will probably discount everything I wrote but that is ok.
 
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Steven Beck

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I think you can't have one without the other ...

Ever had a vision where you don't know whether you were in the body or out of the body?
**********************************************************************

Nah, never had the privilege.
 
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Steven Beck

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What church affiliation are you part of or a member of steven ?
**************************************************************************

I run a cafe with my wife 7 days a week so I am not physically affilliated with any church. However I do try and tune into Morningstar Church at Fort Mill in South Carolina. This in itself is interesting since I live in Australia LOL. The senior leader is Rick Joyner. When I get a chance I go to Hillsong in Sydney. I turned from a boring Baptist to a raving Charismatic.
However having said that, I am not blind to the problems with denominations. Hillsong has issues, Morningstar has issues and the Baptists have issues as does every denomination and every person. Over the 40 years as a Christian I have done street preaching, given out tracts, played music at schools and of course given the gospel to colleagues and strangers. Can't say I was very effective though but of course won't know until I get home.

I am getting a bit long in the tooth to be effective in church now anyway and the Holy Spirit's only instruction to me atm is to counter Calvinists.

Had an interesting encounter at the cafe a few days ago. One of our regular customers has an autistic son and doctors told her he would never speak. Well a few days ago they came in and he looked up at am and said "Hi Steve", just like that. Shocked his mother because she didn't even prompt him. He is getting real chatty now. :)
 
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Steven Beck

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Yep you have summed up the MO of your Arminian cult. You guys always stoop down to the lowest common denominator, you tactic is to attack the personality of anyone who proclaims the truth because you know you can't attack the truth of what Calvin taught.

You Armininan cultists ignore the facts and refuse to deal with them because it's easier to stoop ;ow and talk about a few of Calvins little mistakes, like you guys never made any. That's hypocrisy at it worst, I'm not interested in the slightest in anything Calvin did in his private life. I skimmed over what you wrote abut him because I don't want to know that irrelevant and useless information.

God loves murderers and adulterers, so it has nothing to do with anything. I see you don't have a clue about what the scriptures teach on election and reprobation, you don't want the facts to burst your bubble. So if you ever reach a point where you become ready to face the truth, then do a bit of study into these Bible doctrines so you can hold a rational discussion instead of stooping down.
**********************************************************************
Dan said, "Yep you have summed up the MO of your Arminian cult."

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't follow Arminianism, therefore I am not in that cult. :)

Dan said, "you tactic is to attack the personality of anyone who proclaims the truth because you know you can't attack the truth of what Calvin taught."

Settle down son it is effecting your spelling. I am not 'attacking the personality' of Calvin since that is what he was, an authoritarian. Calvin was a great reformer but a lousy theologian and he stole his 'truth' from Augustine. You don't get it. Calvin was a Roman Catholic as were all reformers of that time. Not their fault but since their thinking was still "Catholicaised" they applied poor thinking to new theology. For example The Lutheran church (Martin Luther) of today resembles a Catholic Church rather than a protestant church.

Dan said, "God loves murderers and adulterers," <== according to you only if they are a part of the elect, " so it has nothing to do with anything." Calvin was an unrepentant murderer so it has everything to do with everything. Paul was a repentant murderer.

Dan said, "I see you don't have a clue about what the scriptures teach on election and reprobation, you don't want the facts to burst your bubble. So if you ever reach a point where you become ready to face the truth, then do a bit of study into these Bible doctrines so you can hold a rational discussion instead of stooping down."

You see this is where you have a problem.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." <-- Whoever means ALL.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, <--- There is that pesky word ALL again.

Rom 2:14 "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

Oh look it seems that Gentiles can do what the law requires so where is the reprobate?

Salvation of the ELECT does NOT EXIST. Show me 3 verses which ties election with salvation. Only 3 c'mon mate you can do it.
 
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OK fair enough. When a child is taught to read and they learn comprehension do they begin with Tolstoy or kinda start with Spot? Understanding scripture is not about picking a book (Revelation) and expecting them to understand that or picking a random verse etc etc. You put too much weight on understanding in an academic sense. Some people have said that they gave gave their heart to Jesus at a young age of 5 or 6. If that is true then they must have 'understood scripture' to come to that decision.
However having said that children have great perception which is a different type of understanding to the knowledge based understanding that adults have. Most adults would have the gift of perception but it is beaten out of them as kids and also falls into disuse because of lack of practice. Children followed Jesus in His time on earth because they perceived His character. A child who has great perception reads Revelation they can understand that God wins and evil loses.

I realize you will probably discount everything I wrote but that is ok.

When you take things as unpure that's what they become to you, sort of like Peter's perception of the gentiles on the day of pentecost, so what those words he spoke meant to him is not what they meant to God; so what you "realize" is your own.

To learn warfare no more begins in the mind; a first at Jerusalem.

Unless you become one (a child) in mind you don't enter, which in another place was referred to by him as one being born of water and spirit, and in another the path of life few find (which Job reffered to as one that no fowl knows of, and no vultures eye has seen).

The truth that this innocence of mind portrays in us goes far deeper then what one first takes as to its meaning.

Simplicity is not so much simple as it is single, just as truth is hidden in plain sight.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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I run a cafe with my wife 7 days a week so I am not physically affilliated with any church. However I do try and tune into Morningstar Church at Fort Mill in South Carolina. This in itself is interesting since I live in Australia LOL. The senior leader is Rick Joyner. When I get a chance I go to Hillsong in Sydney. I turned from a boring Baptist to a raving Charismatic.
However having said that, I am not blind to the problems with denominations. Hillsong has issues, Morningstar has issues and the Baptists have issues as does every denomination and every person. Over the 40 years as a Christian I have done street preaching, given out tracts, played music at schools and of course given the gospel to colleagues and strangers. Can't say I was very effective though but of course won't know until I get home.

I am getting a bit long in the tooth to be effective in church now anyway and the Holy Spirit's only instruction to me atm is to counter Calvinists.

Had an interesting encounter at the cafe a few days ago. One of our regular customers has an autistic son and doctors told her he would never speak. Well a few days ago they came in and he looked up at am and said "Hi Steve", just like that. Shocked his mother because she didn't even prompt him. He is getting real chatty now. :)
thanks for sharing its nice to know a persons background online as a point of reference.
 
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Dan1988

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Dan said, "Yep you have summed up the MO of your Arminian cult."

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't follow Arminianism, therefore I am not in that cult. :)

Dan said, "you tactic is to attack the personality of anyone who proclaims the truth because you know you can't attack the truth of what Calvin taught."

Settle down son it is effecting your spelling. I am not 'attacking the personality' of Calvin since that is what he was, an authoritarian. Calvin was a great reformer but a lousy theologian and he stole his 'truth' from Augustine. You don't get it. Calvin was a Roman Catholic as were all reformers of that time. Not their fault but since their thinking was still "Catholicaised" they applied poor thinking to new theology. For example The Lutheran church (Martin Luther) of today resembles a Catholic Church rather than a protestant church.

Dan said, "God loves murderers and adulterers," <== according to you only if they are a part of the elect, " so it has nothing to do with anything." Calvin was an unrepentant murderer so it has everything to do with everything. Paul was a repentant murderer.

Dan said, "I see you don't have a clue about what the scriptures teach on election and reprobation, you don't want the facts to burst your bubble. So if you ever reach a point where you become ready to face the truth, then do a bit of study into these Bible doctrines so you can hold a rational discussion instead of stooping down."

You see this is where you have a problem.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." <-- Whoever means ALL.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, <--- There is that pesky word ALL again.

Rom 2:14 "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

Oh look it seems that Gentiles can do what the law requires so where is the reprobate?

Salvation of the ELECT does NOT EXIST. Show me 3 verses which ties election with salvation. Only 3 c'mon mate you can do it.
How can you show a blind man anything????? I'm sure you've read 120 verses which show you, so I'm not going to present pearls before you when your only motive is to deny the truth of Gods Word.

You have to show me what the word "whosoever" means in the context of John 3:16 it might just mean all white American males for all you know.

You need to show me what the word "all" means in the contest of John 1:12 it might just mean all those who support the BLM rioters.

Rom 2:15 you missed the elephant in the room, "the work of the law is written in their hearts". Does a reprobate have the work of the law written on his heart?????? yeah right.

Jesus said "you are the children of the devil" now can the children of the devil be saved????? yeah right.

I don't have time to run through every single passage of scripture which screams reprobation and election-salvation same thing. I can see your not interested in the truth of the matter so I don't wnat to sin by casting my pearls around cheaply.
 
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Steven Beck

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How can you show a blind man anything????? I'm sure you've read 120 verses which show you, so I'm not going to present pearls before you when your only motive is to deny the truth of Gods Word.

You have to show me what the word "whosoever" means in the context of John 3:16 it might just mean all white American males for all you know.

You need to show me what the word "all" means in the contest of John 1:12 it might just mean all those who support the BLM rioters.

Rom 2:15 you missed the elephant in the room, "the work of the law is written in their hearts". Does a reprobate have the work of the law written on his heart?????? yeah right.

Jesus said "you are the children of the devil" now can the children of the devil be saved????? yeah right.

I don't have time to run through every single passage of scripture which screams reprobation and election-salvation same thing. I can see your not interested in the truth of the matter so I don't wnat to sin by casting my pearls around cheaply.
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Dan said, "How can you show a blind man anything????? I'm sure you've read 120 verses which show you, so I'm not going to present pearls before you when your only motive is to deny the truth of Gods Word."

You are a coward then.

Dan said, "You have to show me what the word "whosoever" means in the context of John 3:16 it might just mean all white American males for all you know.

You need to show me what the word "all" means in the contest of John 1:12 it might just mean all those who support the BLM rioters."

You obviously failed reading comprehension. Did you go to school at all? Since the Bible is written for ALL MANKIND to read, then John 3:16 applies to ANYONE who reads or hears it.

Dan said, "Rom 2:15 you missed the elephant in the room, "the work of the law is written in their hearts". Does a reprobate have the work of the law written on his heart?????? yeah right."

Again Dan you fail reading comprehension. Rom 2:15 is tied to Rom 2:14 and is talking about GENTILES. There are 2 groups of people in this world, Jews and non Jews called GENTILES so Romans 2:15 applies to ALL GENTILES. Honestly your cults twists and turns is just circular reasoning. SOme backup to Romans 2:15.

Eze 18:21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

Oh look, God is telling us that a wicked person is CAPABLE of turning away from his sins. I know you will twist this one also but your T for TULIP is dead in the water Dan.

Dan said, "Jesus said "you are the children of the devil" now can the children of the devil be saved????? yeah right."

And that includes you Dan. You were born as a child of the DEVIL.

Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Rom 3:14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
Rom 3:15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Notice Rom 3:10 Dan, “None is righteous, no, not one; <---- That is you mate.

Dan said, "I don't have time to run through every single passage of scripture which screams reprobation and election-salvation same thing. I can see your not interested in the truth of the matter so I don't wnat to sin by casting my pearls around cheaply."

Of course you don't because you don't have any scripture which links election with salvation, no not one.

Your cult leaders exchange the truth of God into a lie and you believe them rather than the bible.

Rom_1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
 
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Dan1988

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Dan said, "How can you show a blind man anything????? I'm sure you've read 120 verses which show you, so I'm not going to present pearls before you when your only motive is to deny the truth of Gods Word."

You are a coward then.

Dan said, "You have to show me what the word "whosoever" means in the context of John 3:16 it might just mean all white American males for all you know.

You need to show me what the word "all" means in the contest of John 1:12 it might just mean all those who support the BLM rioters."

You obviously failed reading comprehension. Did you go to school at all? Since the Bible is written for ALL MANKIND to read, then John 3:16 applies to ANYONE who reads or hears it.

Dan said, "Rom 2:15 you missed the elephant in the room, "the work of the law is written in their hearts". Does a reprobate have the work of the law written on his heart?????? yeah right."

Again Dan you fail reading comprehension. Rom 2:15 is tied to Rom 2:14 and is talking about GENTILES. There are 2 groups of people in this world, Jews and non Jews called GENTILES so Romans 2:15 applies to ALL GENTILES. Honestly your cults twists and turns is just circular reasoning. SOme backup to Romans 2:15.

Eze 18:21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

Oh look, God is telling us that a wicked person is CAPABLE of turning away from his sins. I know you will twist this one also but your T for TULIP is dead in the water Dan.

Dan said, "Jesus said "you are the children of the devil" now can the children of the devil be saved????? yeah right."

And that includes you Dan. You were born as a child of the DEVIL.

Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Rom 3:14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
Rom 3:15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Notice Rom 3:10 Dan, “None is righteous, no, not one; <---- That is you mate.

Dan said, "I don't have time to run through every single passage of scripture which screams reprobation and election-salvation same thing. I can see your not interested in the truth of the matter so I don't wnat to sin by casting my pearls around cheaply."

Of course you don't because you don't have any scripture which links election with salvation, no not one.

Your cult leaders exchange the truth of God into a lie and you believe them rather than the bible.

Rom_1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
You didn't answer any of my questions, you just ducked and weaved and quoted a whole bunch of unrelated scriptures. Not a single verse quoted above refutes the doctrine of reprobation and election.

I was born into the world dead in my sins and trespasses, thanks to my father Adam. I was born in the image of Adam but the reprobate are born baring the image of Satan, they were damned to hell before the world was created. Their names were not written in the book of life, before the foundation of the world. WHAT DOES YOUR ARMINIAN CULT HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT???

There are far to many verses which prove that Calvinism is the most faithful exposition of the gospel. I can't list them all here as they wouldn't fit. I have over 120 but I'll just list a few to shake you out of your slumber.

John 15:16

Proverbs 16:4

Matthew 24:31

Romans 8:28-30

Romans 9:11

Now I wan't you to deny God's Word and call God the liar you claim He is.

I rest my case....
 
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Steven Beck

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You didn't answer any of my questions, you just ducked and weaved and quoted a whole bunch of unrelated scriptures. Not a single verse quoted above refutes the doctrine of reprobation and election.

I was born into the world dead in my sins and trespasses, thanks to my father Adam. I was born in the image of Adam but the reprobate are born baring the image of Satan, they were damned to hell before the world was created. Their names were not written in the book of life, before the foundation of the world. WHAT DOES YOUR ARMINIAN CULT HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT???

There are far to many verses which prove that Calvinism is the most faithful exposition of the gospel. I can't list them all here as they wouldn't fit. I have over 120 but I'll just list a few to shake you out of your slumber.

John 15:16

Proverbs 16:4

Matthew 24:31

Romans 8:28-30

Romans 9:11

Now I wan't you to deny God's Word and call God the liar you claim He is.

I rest my case....

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Dan said, "You didn't answer any of my questions, you just ducked and weaved and quoted a whole bunch of unrelated scriptures. Not a single verse quoted above refutes the doctrine of reprobation and election." <--- Actually I answered all of them you just didn't want to read and understand.

Your case is full of holes.

John 15:16 Jesus is only speaking to his eleven chosen apostles. This passage have nothing to do with salvation. He CHOSE those eleven for a purpose - to be apostles. Strike 1

Proverbs 16:4 This verse is speaking about God's EARTHLY purposes. Has nothing to do with ETERNAL purposes. Read the previous verse.

Pro 16:3 Commit your work to the LORD, and your plans will be established. <--- So God is telling US to commit to the LORD. <--- Simple stuff mate Strike 2

Matt 24:31 Oh dear, this is Strike 4, 5 and 6. You don't even know what Matthew 24 even means let alone this verse but it has nothing to do salvation. I will tell you what it means since it is tied to Revelation. When Jesus returns to Earth in the 2nd Coming and defeats the enemies at Armegeddon every single person left alive will travel to Jerusalem. However the ELECT (the Jews) will be called by Angels.

Romans 8:28-30. Earthly purpose mate has nothing to do with ETERNAL purpose and salvation. I will put it to you simply. Every single person who is born has a purpose, only those who give their lives to the Lord have a possibilty of achieving that purpose. The earlier someone commits their life to Jesus the more chance they have. Strike 7

Romans 9:11 Again has nothing to do with Salvation but Earthly purpose. God know Jacob was better suited to God's purposes then Esau.

So you can see the heart of the Calvinists problems. They confuse earthly purpose with eternal purpose. Election is for a purpose. The Jews were ELECTED to be a Holy people. An apostle is ELECTED to be an apostle. Election is to do with SERVICE. In Isaiah Jesus is called MY ELECT.
Salvation is a state of being. That means you are saved or NOT saved

Get rid of your assumptions and BIAS.
 
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Dan1988

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Dan said, "You didn't answer any of my questions, you just ducked and weaved and quoted a whole bunch of unrelated scriptures. Not a single verse quoted above refutes the doctrine of reprobation and election." <--- Actually I answered all of them you just didn't want to read and understand.

Your case is full of holes.

John 15:16 Jesus is only speaking to his eleven chosen apostles. This passage have nothing to do with salvation. He CHOSE those eleven for a purpose - to be apostles. Strike 1

Proverbs 16:4 This verse is speaking about God's EARTHLY purposes. Has nothing to do with ETERNAL purposes. Read the previous verse.

Pro 16:3 Commit your work to the LORD, and your plans will be established. <--- So God is telling US to commit to the LORD. <--- Simple stuff mate Strike 2

Matt 24:31 Oh dear, this is Strike 4, 5 and 6. You don't even know what Matthew 24 even means let alone this verse but it has nothing to do salvation. I will tell you what it means since it is tied to Revelation. When Jesus returns to Earth in the 2nd Coming and defeats the enemies at Armegeddon every single person left alive will travel to Jerusalem. However the ELECT (the Jews) will be called by Angels.

Romans 8:28-30. Earthly purpose mate has nothing to do with ETERNAL purpose and salvation. I will put it to you simply. Every single person who is born has a purpose, only those who give their lives to the Lord have a possibilty of achieving that purpose. The earlier someone commits their life to Jesus the more chance they have. Strike 7

Romans 9:11 Again has nothing to do with Salvation but Earthly purpose. God know Jacob was better suited to God's purposes then Esau.

So you can see the heart of the Calvinists problems. They confuse earthly purpose with eternal purpose. Election is for a purpose. The Jews were ELECTED to be a Holy people. An apostle is ELECTED to be an apostle. Election is to do with SERVICE. In Isaiah Jesus is called MY ELECT.
Salvation is a state of being. That means you are saved or NOT saved

Get rid of your assumptions and BIAS.
Talk about butchering the scriptures!, how on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that the word "Elect" means "Jews". Lol my Bible calls Jews, Jews so I don't know which Arminiian heretic planted that in your head.

Your second huge problem is this false idea that our "Earthly purpose" and our heavenly purpose are somehow disconnected. God will and purpose is the same on earth as it is in heaven. God is not bi polar, so you lose big time again.

When the disciples recorded Jesus explaining how He is the one who chose them, it was recorded for all to hear that He is the One who chooses. You don't chose Him as some kind of consumer product so your Arminian cult is full of black holes.

You can twist Gods Word to make it fit your particular sect all you want but the truth shell remain forever. You can sweep 120 clear verses under the carpet at your own peril.
 
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Steven Beck

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Talk about butchering the scriptures!, how on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that the word "Elect" means "Jews". Lol my Bible calls Jews, Jews so I don't know which Arminiian heretic planted that in your head.

Your second huge problem is this false idea that our "Earthly purpose" and our heavenly purpose are somehow disconnected. God will and purpose is the same on earth as it is in heaven. God is not bi polar, so you lose big time again.

When the disciples recorded Jesus explaining how He is the one who chose them, it was recorded for all to hear that He is the One who chooses. You don't chose Him as some kind of consumer product so your Arminian cult is full of black holes.

You can twist Gods Word to make it fit your particular sect all you want but the truth shell remain forever. You can sweep 120 clear verses under the carpet at your own peril.
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I don't need to butcher scripture but you don't know any end time prophecies then.

Matthew 24:31 is the something that will happen after Jesus returns. Before this time the CHURCH
has been raptured, it is gone, no more Christians. The age of Grace has already ended. Can I prove this. I think YES.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

This is what they call the Rapture. There are 3 theological theories for the rapture. Pre-trib. mid-trib or post-trib. Some people believe the rapture happens before the tribulation and they have good reasons, Some people beilieve the rapture happens in the middle of the tribulationand they have good reasons and some people believe it happens after the tribulation but that one is pretty much dead in the water. What Paul is saying is at the last TRUMP or sound of the trumpet the dead will be raised and the living will be changed and taken from Earth. They think the last trump is this.

The Seventh Trumpet
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

After this comes the 7 vials which is the last judgements.

Before the trumpets something else happens where 144,000 Jews are sealed by God and they will be super evangelists.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

These 144,000 are the ELECT mentioned in Matthew 24:31. These people are sealed, the trumpets sound, at the last Trump the church is raptured and these 144,000 go on to the end. They all survive the tribulation and are rounded up by the angels to go to Jerusalem. You need to understand that at the end the CHURCH has gone already. In your language the Gentile ELECT don't exist any more so they have to be Jews.
 
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Talk about butchering the scriptures!, how on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that the word "Elect" means "Jews". Lol my Bible calls Jews, Jews so I don't know which Arminiian heretic planted that in your head.

Your second huge problem is this false idea that our "Earthly purpose" and our heavenly purpose are somehow disconnected. God will and purpose is the same on earth as it is in heaven. God is not bi polar, so you lose big time again.

When the disciples recorded Jesus explaining how He is the one who chose them, it was recorded for all to hear that He is the One who chooses. You don't chose Him as some kind of consumer product so your Arminian cult is full of black holes.

You can twist Gods Word to make it fit your particular sect all you want but the truth shell remain forever. You can sweep 120 clear verses under the carpet at your own peril.

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Part 2

Dan said, "Talk about butchering the scriptures!, how on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that the word "Elect" means "Jews"."

You don't know the Old Testament.

Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deu_14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Jos_24:22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

In Strongs Concordance the Hebrew word for 'chosen' is
H977
בָּחַר
bâchar
baw-khar'
A primitive root; properly to try, that is, (by implication) select: - acceptable, appoint, choose (choice), excellent, join, be rather, require.

In the Old Testament is a reference to Jesus which is stated MINE ELECT

Isa_42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

In Strongs Concordance the Hebrew word for 'ELECT' is
H972
בָּחִיר
bâchı̂yr
baw-kheer'
From H977; select: - choose, chosen one, elect.

Oh look from H977 therefore basically the same word. We can rewrite Deut 7:6 to say.

Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath elected thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

So it looks like the Jews are THE ELECT. Trumped again. Do some Bible study son.
 
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Talk about butchering the scriptures!, how on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that the word "Elect" means "Jews". Lol my Bible calls Jews, Jews so I don't know which Arminiian heretic planted that in your head.

Your second huge problem is this false idea that our "Earthly purpose" and our heavenly purpose are somehow disconnected. God will and purpose is the same on earth as it is in heaven. God is not bi polar, so you lose big time again.

When the disciples recorded Jesus explaining how He is the one who chose them, it was recorded for all to hear that He is the One who chooses. You don't chose Him as some kind of consumer product so your Arminian cult is full of black holes.

You can twist Gods Word to make it fit your particular sect all you want but the truth shell remain forever. You can sweep 120 clear verses under the carpet at your own peril.
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Dan said,"Your second huge problem is this false idea that our "Earthly purpose" and our heavenly purpose are somehow disconnected. God will and purpose is the same on earth as it is in heaven. God is not bi polar, so you lose big time again."

Sorry Dan but you are off the planet with this statement. What was Abrahams purpose? Oh yeah to be the father of the Jews. Hate to tell you this but he is dead and in heaven and do you really think that his spiritual purpose is to be the Father of the Jews. That task is finished, completed so how can his EARTHLY purpose be connected to his ETERNAL purpose? Please enlighten me on that. Likewise Paul's earthly purpose was to be the apostle to the GENTILES. He died and is in heaven his purpose complete.
Do you really think that planet Earth is the only thing on God's mind? There is a whole universe out there that our God created and there is stuff happening all over it. Here on Earth the only thing that needs achieving is salvation for as many people as possible and defeating Satan. So yes there is a terrible disconnect between earthly purpose and eternal purpose.

You really need to think a bit before posting garbage.
 
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Dan said,"Your second huge problem is this false idea that our "Earthly purpose" and our heavenly purpose are somehow disconnected. God will and purpose is the same on earth as it is in heaven. God is not bi polar, so you lose big time again."

Sorry Dan but you are off the planet with this statement. What was Abrahams purpose? Oh yeah to be the father of the Jews. Hate to tell you this but he is dead and in heaven and do you really think that his spiritual purpose is to be the Father of the Jews. That task is finished, completed so how can his EARTHLY purpose be connected to his ETERNAL purpose? Please enlighten me on that. Likewise Paul's earthly purpose was to be the apostle to the GENTILES. He died and is in heaven his purpose complete.
Do you really think that planet Earth is the only thing on God's mind? There is a whole universe out there that our God created and there is stuff happening all over it. Here on Earth the only thing that needs achieving is salvation for as many people as possible and defeating Satan. So yes there is a terrible disconnect between earthly purpose and eternal purpose.

You really need to think a bit before posting garbage.
Pauls work didn't end when he died. It still continues to teach and instruct Jews and Gentiles, even more then when he walked the earth.

The work of all believers continues in heaven, they're currently petitioning God to punish the reprobate. Everything is already settled with God, every single one of His elect will be saved and Satan is already defeated so your statement is baseless.

There's nothing new under the sun, everything is set in stone. Everything that God has decreed from the foundation of creation is as good as done, everything has been predetermined and God sees it as if it's already history.

We don't know much about God, all we know is the little He has revealed in His Word. We have a very small narrow window into our mysterious God. The book of revelation is a very mysterious book, the worlds greatest theologians and Bible scholars disagree with each other on it's meaning so I must dismiss your exposition as ill informed.

I notice you ignore all of the plain scriptures regarding the elect of God, and you appeal to the obscure ones and twist them because you know you argument is dead in the water.

I spoke to my pastor yesterday and asked him if we can have fellowship with Arminians like you. He said that every Arminian who is seeking the truth, ends up becoming a Calvinist. He said all Christians start out as Arminians, including everyone in our Church but all true believers must concede that Calvinism is true Christianity.

He said Arminians like you must trample all over God's Word to maintain their ignorant bliss, but as soon as God opens their eyes they become Calvinists.

You still haven't explained how you can sweep 120 Bible verses under the carpet and still claim to believe what God has said.
 
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Pauls work didn't end when he died. It still continues to teach and instruct Jews and Gentiles, even more then when he walked the earth.

The work of all believers continues in heaven, they're currently petitioning God to punish the reprobate. Everything is already settled with God, every single one of His elect will be saved and Satan is already defeated so your statement is baseless.

There's nothing new under the sun, everything is set in stone. Everything that God has decreed from the foundation of creation is as good as done, everything has been predetermined and God sees it as if it's already history.

We don't know much about God, all we know is the little He has revealed in His Word. We have a very small narrow window into our mysterious God. The book of revelation is a very mysterious book, the worlds greatest theologians and Bible scholars disagree with each other on it's meaning so I must dismiss your exposition as ill informed.

I notice you ignore all of the plain scriptures regarding the elect of God, and you appeal to the obscure ones and twist them because you know you argument is dead in the water.

I spoke to my pastor yesterday and asked him if we can have fellowship with Arminians like you. He said that every Arminian who is seeking the truth, ends up becoming a Calvinist. He said all Christians start out as Arminians, including everyone in our Church but all true believers must concede that Calvinism is true Christianity.

He said Arminians like you must trample all over God's Word to maintain their ignorant bliss, but as soon as God opens their eyes they become Calvinists.

You still haven't explained how you can sweep 120 Bible verses under the carpet and still claim to believe what God has said.

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You truly are a sad case and I genuinely feel sorry for you. You have a fictional Jesus, a fictional heaven, a fictional bible and a fictional life. The Calvin Cult has you well and truly under their spell. Take solace in that you belong in the same category as the Mormon Cult, Jehovahs Witness Cult and the Oneness Pentecostal Cult.
You do not have long to wait. The Tribulation will begin about 2025 and Jesus will return in 2032. Hopefully you will see the truth before then.
 
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You truly are a sad case and I genuinely feel sorry for you. You have a fictional Jesus, a fictional heaven, a fictional bible and a fictional life. The Calvin Cult has you well and truly under their spell. Take solace in that you belong in the same category as the Mormon Cult, Jehovahs Witness Cult and the Oneness Pentecostal Cult.
You do not have long to wait. The Tribulation will begin about 2025 and Jesus will return in 2032. Hopefully you will see the truth before then.
I thank you for your sentiments, I feel extreem pity and sorrow for all you poor lost Arminians. Your in great company with Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joice Myer, Creflo Dollar, Ted Jakes, Benny Hinn, David Koresh, Jim Jones etc....

The Arminian cult is on the broad highway to hell, I hope you wake up before it's too late.

O'h BTW, I see they've taught you well, now you're a false prophet who can predict the return of Christ. That in itself exposes you as a brain washed false prophet. Jesus said "nobody knows when I will return) and here comes this Arminian cult member to prove Christ wrong. Good luck man, you'll need lots of it.
 
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