LDS why is the BOM in King James English

mmksparbud

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Joseph Smith had NO written material with him when he dictated the Book of Mormon to his scribes.

Yah, right. Anything you say. God dictated it, complete with the KJV mistakes.
 
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mmksparbud

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Then you did not have an NDE, you just blacked out. Why do you say it was a NDE. Some people were dead for days and came back:

"Some People Were Dead For Several Days
george_rodonaia_new.jpg
Reverend George Rodonaia (died 2004) underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to the study of spirituality, taking a second doctorate in the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He served as a pastor at St. Paul United Methodist Church in Baytown, Texas. Reverend Rodonaia is one of the NDE experiencers profiled on this page who was dead for days during his NDE."

From: Some People Were Dead For Several Days

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

They are called Near Death---there are no VERIFIED, experiences of anyone coming back after being dead for several days----outside of Lazarus. Can it happen, yes, and like Lazarus, they will have nothing to say. Many have been pronounced dead and did, in fact awake---however, the doctor's ascertained that they had not in fact, actually died. They had gone into a deep coma/hibernation, and the morgues had kept them very cold which slowed everything down. I now what I had---typical NDE, due to respiratory failure, My 02 sats had dropped to zero. This last time it took 2 months to come out of that coma. There were no brain scans done to check for activity on those people. Are you actually saying that JS had an NDE, not a vision? He called them visions.
 
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mmksparbud

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I thought you believed the Bible was inerrant.

The translators made some mistakes, not God. There was also a bible that was printed with the 10 commandments---except one said "Thou shalt commit adultery." It was promptly collected and destroyed---I believe one copy still exists. The Red Sea, should be Reed Sea, unicorns was not the original word. Punctuation was not present and can render the reading slightly different. It is a good idea to read the words without punctuation sometimes and see what can be seen. Nor were there any verses or chapters to begin with. One reason why we need to go back a few verses and forward a few when quoting a verse that starts at the beginning or end of a chapter. It's a good idea no matter where the verse starts at, actually. And check the original language if you can.
 
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He is the way

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They are called Near Death---there are no VERIFIED, experiences of anyone coming back after being dead for several days----outside of Lazarus. Can it happen, yes, and like Lazarus, they will have nothing to say. Many have been pronounced dead and did, in fact awake---however, the doctor's ascertained that they had not in fact, actually died. They had gone into a deep coma/hibernation, and the morgues had kept them very cold which slowed everything down. I now what I had---typical NDE, due to respiratory failure, My 02 sats had dropped to zero. This last time it took 2 months to come out of that coma. There were no brain scans done to check for activity on those people. Are you actually saying that JS had an NDE, not a vision? He called them visions.
Yes he did say it was a vision, near or as you say after death experiences were not called that then. After his vision Joseph Smith said:
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:20)

When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven.

So I believe we can make up our own minds what happened.
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes he did say it was a vision, near or as you say after death experiences were not called that then. After his vision Joseph Smith said:
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:20)

When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven.

So I believe we can make up our own minds what happened.


Yes, we can. In visions, people are alive, awake. Dreams, people arfe asleep. NDE's---near death, oxygen deprivation. Prophets have dreams and visions. There are no NDE's in the bible, that I can recall. Not that they did not have them. Just not discussed n the bible about those who were near death.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Sientists outside of religious influence have given us plenty of evidence that the BOM people lived. You just close your eyes to it or ask for more.
No, they have not. Outside of mormon apologetics and their attempts of "possibly", "could have", "likely" bogus links to evidence, no credible scientist would confirm the people of the BOM existed. From genetics to linguistics to archaeology, among others, you have nothing to support the BOM.

The problem with you, Peter, is you say you have evidence, but you won't present it. All you have is a make believe story that you wish were true.
 
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He is the way

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The translators made some mistakes, not God. There was also a bible that was printed with the 10 commandments---except one said "Thou shalt commit adultery." It was promptly collected and destroyed---I believe one copy still exists. The Red Sea, should be Reed Sea, unicorns was not the original word. Punctuation was not present and can render the reading slightly different. It is a good idea to read the words without punctuation sometimes and see what can be seen. Nor were there any verses or chapters to begin with. One reason why we need to go back a few verses and forward a few when quoting a verse that starts at the beginning or end of a chapter. It's a good idea no matter where the verse starts at, actually. And check the original language if you can.
So if you believe the Bible has errors, why condemn God for saying so? Some people error because they do not believe that works are necessary for salvation. There are many things necessary for salvation in the kingdom of God.
 
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He is the way

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Yes, we can. In visions, people are alive, awake. Dreams, people arfe asleep. NDE's---near death, oxygen deprivation. Prophets have dreams and visions. There are no NDE's in the bible, that I can recall. Not that they did not have them. Just not discussed n the bible about those who were near death.

People who have had NO oxygen deprivation have had NDEs.
 
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mmksparbud

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So if you believe the Bible has errors, why condemn God for saying so? Some people error because they do not believe that works are necessary for salvation. There are many things necessary for salvation in the kingdom of God.

The errors are not from God!! They are not in the original language. You don't seem to haver actually read what I said. You rely on works for salvation and the bible is clear it is not about works. If just that were salvation, there never would have been the need for a savior. Good works are an indication of the condition of your heart. They are done because we are saved, not in order to be saved.
 
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The errors are not from God!! They are not in the original language. You don't seem to haver actually read what I said. You rely on works for salvation and the bible is clear it is not about works. If just that were salvation, there never would have been the need for a savior. Good works are an indication of the condition of your heart. They are done because we are saved, not in order to be saved.
How can anyone say they are saved before the end of their lives? No one is saved before they die:

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Therefore the works MUST come before salvation and salvation comes after the judgment, NOT before. What will people be judged on:

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 13)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

A person is NOT saved before the judgment.

And we know what happens to the slothful and unprofitable servants:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:26 - 30)

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
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He is the way

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If they are near death, they have 02 deprivation. Ask a real doctor.
"Aren’t NDEs the result of anoxia (lack of oxygen) in a dying brain?
No. Physicians have compared oxygen levels of cardiac arrest survivors who did and did not have NDEs and their findings discredit the anoxia hypothesis. In fact, in one study, the NDErs had higher oxygen levels than non-NDErs.33 People report near-death experiences from many situations when their brains are healthy—during childbirth, in accidents, in falls. People also report classical near-death-like experiences that have occurred during conversations or while holding a dying loved one. In those cases where anoxia is involved and monitored, such as in cardiac arrest, the effects are disorientation and poor memory. The opposite is true for those patients who report near-death experiences following their cardiac arrest.34,35"

From: Key NDE Facts - Page #1
 
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mmksparbud

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How can anyone say they are saved before the end of their lives? No one is saved before they die:

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Therefore the works MUST come before salvation and salvation comes after the judgment, NOT before. What will people be judged on:

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 13)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

A person is NOT saved before the judgment.

When Jesus returns, He comes only for the saved. That means the decisio0n of who is ssaved or lost is made before He comes back.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When He comes also this happens:
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
If the brightness of His coming destroys "that wicked" which is the one that has been following Satan
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
What do you think is going to happen to the wicked? The living wicked are destroyed, the the dead wicked remain dead.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

When Jesus comes, the dead in Christ rise first, and the living righteous are all gathered and taken with Jesus. The living wicked are destroyed and the rest of the dead wicked remain dead and are not resurrected until after the 1000 years. The 1st resurrection is at the 1nd coming of Jesus---the 2nd resurrection is only of the wicked. They are the ones that are resurrected unto their judgement. The decision of their lost status has been made BEFORE Jesus comes back. They are resurrected to have their records revealed as to why they are lost and to have their punishment for their works. Only the wicked have their judgement at that judgment. The saved have had their reward when Jesus returns for them.
Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

God will have everyone know why the wicked are lost. That is the purpose of the judgment. It vindicates God. It wipes away any questions as to why someone we thought would surely be saved, is not and why someone whom we thought would surely be lost is not.

The bible itself shows that your version is totally wrong.
 
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mmksparbud

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"Aren’t NDEs the result of anoxia (lack of oxygen) in a dying brain?
No. Physicians have compared oxygen levels of cardiac arrest survivors who did and did not have NDEs and their findings discredit the anoxia hypothesis. In fact, in one study, the NDErs had higher oxygen levels than non-NDErs.33 People report near-death experiences from many situations when their brains are healthy—during childbirth, in accidents, in falls. People also report classical near-death-like experiences that have occurred during conversations or while holding a dying loved one. In those cases where anoxia is involved and monitored, such as in cardiac arrest, the effects are disorientation and poor memory. The opposite is true for those patients who report near-death experiences following their cardiac arrest.34,35"

From: Key NDE Facts - Page #1


Yah---well no other real doctors agree! And just exactly what is your point? Are you still trying to say that JS had a NDE and not a vision? Name one prophet in the bible that had an NDE. Visions and dreams are the only things they had.
 
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When Jesus returns, He comes only for the saved. That means the decisio0n of who is ssaved or lost is made before He comes back.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When He comes also this happens:
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
If the brightness of His coming destroys "that wicked" which is the one that has been following Satan
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
What do you think is going to happen to the wicked? The living wicked are destroyed, the the dead wicked remain dead.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

When Jesus comes, the dead in Christ rise first, and the living righteous are all gathered and taken with Jesus. The living wicked are destroyed and the rest of the dead wicked remain dead and are not resurrected until after the 1000 years. The 1st resurrection is at the 1nd coming of Jesus---the 2nd resurrection is only of the wicked. They are the ones that are resurrected unto their judgement. The decision of their lost status has been made BEFORE Jesus comes back. They are resurrected to have their records revealed as to why they are lost and to have their punishment for their works. Only the wicked have their judgement at that judgment. The saved have had their reward when Jesus returns for them.
Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

God will have everyone know why the wicked are lost. That is the purpose of the judgment. It vindicates God. It wipes away any questions as to why someone we thought would surely be saved, is not and why someone whom we thought would surely be lost is not.

The bible itself shows that your version is totally wrong.

This is what the Bible says:

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 
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He is the way

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Yah---well no other real doctors agree! And just exactly what is your point? Are you still trying to say that JS had a NDE and not a vision? Name one prophet in the bible that had an NDE. Visions and dreams are the only things they had.
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:1 - 4)

1 IT is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
 
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mmksparbud

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This is what the Bible says:

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Which in no way changes any of the many verses you were given!! Yes, they persevere till "their" end.
 
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mmksparbud

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(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:1 - 4)

1 IT is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


That merely says that a man he knew 14 years earlier had a vision---nothing there about NDE---AGAIN, WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
 
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Which in no way changes any of the many verses you were given!! Yes, they persevere till "their" end.
People who endure to the end are saved
That merely says that a man he knew 14 years earlier had a vision---nothing there about NDE---AGAIN, WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
Some people believe they are saved, however if they turn from the commandments they are not saved:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
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