Col 1:20, What was there to reconcile in heaven?

zoidar said:

Colossians 1:19-20

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What was there to reconcile in heaven?

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All of creation is being reconciled to God. Through Christ not just we ourselves, but all of creation, is to be healed and saved. Which is why we read that God will one day make all things new (Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:5), there will be a restoration of all things (Acts of the Apostles 3:21). Recall that St. Paul in the same letter to the Colossians writes just a couple verses earlier, "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16). "By Him and for Him" were all things made.

For Him. Christ is, as the Apostle says, the "firstborn" that is to say, the Pre-eminant One, "over all creation" (Colossians 1:15). He is the Word through which all things were made, and the Word for whom all things were made, the very Word that is the salvation and healing of the world, the renewal of all things. He is the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega.

And So He was there, and He is why, the stars first birthed into existence in the beginning of the universe; He is the cause of and the reason for all things, and in Him and through Him all things--from the dirt beneath our feet right here on earth to the churning infernos of plasma in the heavens--shall have their eternal purpose and permanence. So that, in the end, it shall be just as we read, "that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:28).

-CryptoLutheran

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● Col 1:20 . .Through him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

I don't think that passages means to say that there are things in heaven out of sync with God; nor even things on earth. I think it's only saying that no matter where, and/or if, things are out of sync with God; the blood of Christ's crucifixion is what makes it possible for God to exercise benevolence instead of wrath.

BTW: the Greek word translated "heaven" is a mite ambiguous. It can refer to the sky and/or God's abode, either one; so it's an arbitrary judgment call how best to apply it in a given context.
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zoidar said:

Colossians 1:19-20

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What was there to reconcile in heaven?

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Was there anyone in Heaven before the cross?

zoidar said:

Colossians 1:19-20

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What was there to reconcile in heaven?

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When the fall of mankind happened ... mankind was separated from God because of sin ... through the cross ... those in Him are reconciled (no longer separated from God) we experience that reconciliation in spirit now (on earth) and will be totally complete in both the spiritual and physical when He returns and takes us to heaven ... complete and final restoration of the saved being in complete harmony with God for eternity.

Ephesians 2:18

for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

John 14:6

Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me

zoidar said:

Colossians 1:19-20

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What was there to reconcile in heaven?

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See Job 1 and Job 2.

Such that Satan is cast down in Rev 12 -- in a significant way (beyond his being cast out before the creation of Adam) -- right after Christ ascends to heaven.

zoidar said:

Colossians 1:19-20

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What was there to reconcile in heaven?

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I recall that the cherubim even needed coals from the altar in their chest.

These same coals were used to purify a prophet's mouth who was of "unclean lips"

it would imply they are also subject to corruption.

There was a "debate" in Job 1 and 2. and it was in heaven. So even though Satan was cast out before tempting Eve - yet the debate still going on there in Job 1 and 2.... is long after that.

Luke 10:18 Jesus said that due to his work on earth "I saw Satan fall like lightning".
Rev 12 says it is "The accuser of the brethren" that is cast down - after in Rev 12 we see the point where Christ ascends to heaven.

Satan loses all sympathy he had in heaven at the point of the cross. Only this Earth was left for him to torment.

Google "Cosmic Conflict"

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zoidar said:

Moses, Eliah?

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● John 3:12-13 . . No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-- the Son of Man.

The Old Testament's Hebrew word for "heaven" is ambiguous. Sometimes it speaks of God's abode, but mostly it just speaks of sky, i.e. the abode of birds, clouds, and celestial objects.
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zoidar said:

What was there to reconcile in heaven?

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If you throw this in, possibly some of the rulers and authorities?

"His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to the eternal purpose that He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord"—Ephesians 3

zoidar said:

What are heavenly rulers and authorities?

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I thought they were fallen ones cast out of "the heaven of heavens". It never occurred to me any redemptive ministry was available to such. The verse indicates the church is an instrument of proclaiming something to "them":

1) Perhaps judgement, if to fallen ones, as Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison? A living, ongoing proclamation of Christ’s victory to his foes, before their ultimate destruction?
2) Perhaps edification, if to unfallen ones, such as that which angels "long to look into"?

Fascinating verses to ponder.

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zoidar said:

V.16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible

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That's a reference to the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy.

There's much to the cosmos that's invisible, i.e. cannot be observed visually, for example: gravity, temperature, electricity, sound, and magnetism.

Natural light is invisible too. For example: you can see the Sun's shine when you look at it, and you can see the Moon reflecting sunlight when you look at it. But you cannot see any sunlight in the void between them.

X-rays, gamma rays, radio waves, television waves, and micro waves are all invisible. We can detect their existence, and we can measure their effects, but they can't be seen; they're totally invisible.

The laws of physics exist everywhere: here on the earth and everywhere out in space too. Yet, though those laws are so prevalent and so necessary to the cosmos' functionality, we cannot see even one of those laws. Well; those laws are particular, viz: they haven't always existed. They were specially created for the current cosmos to make it work just the way that God wants it to work.
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GOD Shines Forth! said:

in the heavenly realms

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"heavenly realms" is translated from a Greek word that means above the sky and/or higher than the sky.

Well; it's hard to imagine something beyond the sky especially seeing as how professional astronomers are gradually coming to the conclusion that the physical universe apparently stretches to infinity.

Anyway; what it all says to me is that the physical universe is somehow intermixed with a non physical universe. That's not quite the classical concept of a multiverse, but pretty close. It turns out that we really do live in a fishbowl after all.
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