Faith: How does a person get it
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StillGods
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I believe it is our response to Jesus Christ that is in question - do we believe that He died for our sins, paying the price for our forgiveness so that we can know the Father and have eternal life.
what level of belief is enough to God to save a person? - only God knows what constitutes if a person believes in His Son.
For example, for those with intellectual disabilities, they may not be able to define salvation or understand regeneration, but they may know Jesus loves them and adore God for loving them.... and that is highly likely enough for God to welcome them into His family. God is not cruel.
It is all relative to the person.
Likewise an unborn baby can not comprehend many things, and a one year old can not comprehend many things etc...I think God understands that more than we do, and i believe His grace covers those scenarios. He is Just and Merciful.
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Bro.T--2
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The keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous. In (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men.
Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me. It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded you to Remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy. All through the Bible after the death Jesus the Sabbath day was kept on the seventh day of the week.
Paul said in (Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you. Let's go into James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? True faith goes hand in hand with good works.
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1). I don't know. I do know that God is merciful and gracious. I do know that the unborn cannot commit sin. So my opinion (rather than what I know for sure) is that the unborn dead will be accepted into heaven.
2) Salvation is only through the Lord Jesus. (Acts 4:12) However, I asked the Lord what happens to those in countries where the gospel is not preached. The Lord said to me that if anyone truly sought salvation, He would find a way to save them. No one gets saved against their will.
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OzSpen
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AGG,
So when the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' Their response was not: 'You need to be unconditionally elected, sharers in Christ's limited atonement, and irresistible grace needs to be extended to you'.
Instead, the jailer asked: 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' (Acts 16:30 NIV).
The reply from Paul and Silas was: 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved – you and your household. Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house' (Acts 16:31-32 NIV).
'Believe' is a command in the Greek language. This would be a useless command if it could not be implemented by the jailer and his household.
Oz
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d taylor
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A person has the ability to exercise faith, that was given to a person at birth. People use this God given faith everyday to trust in many of ways: people, things (airplane etc..) governments, science, religion, etc.. And some have used their faith to believe in The Messiah to receive God free gift of Eternal Life.
For an example if you believe that men went to the moon, you are using your faith to believe that, that is true. Because i am guessing you did not actually go on that trip. So you are placing faith in, that this event is true and did happen.
When this comes to the Bible, The Bible presents evidence that The Bible is true and the events in the Bible are true. Now it is up to a person to examine this evidence to see, do they believe the accounts (evidence) given in the Bible.
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Every Word that God has ever spoken is “In Righteousness” (Proverbs 8:8), and therefore must be heard and received (Revelation 3:3) through Faith in the Cross of Jesus Christ, or we remain trapped in the Letter of the Law and forfeit the opportunity to walk in the newness of the Spirit. If this is not understood, there will only be a make-believe spiritual walk and one might even have a name that they are alive, but Christ says they will be dead (Revelation 3:1). The Letter of the Law can only produce carnal Christians, and to be carnally minded is death (Romans 8:6). We must look to the Cross and live!
If it's not Faith in Christ and what He did for us at the Cross, then it's Faith that God will not recognize. The apostle says, "Christ shall profit you nothing" (Gal. 5:2). He says, "Christ is become of no effect unto you" (Gal. 5:4). THAT INCLUDES YOUR PRAYERS!
That's the terrible problem that affixes itself to most Christians. They are trusting in things other than the Cross, making Christ of no effect. This guarantees spiritual failure. In fact, when the believer do this, they fall from Grace. In other words, the goodness of God, which, in effect, is the Grace of God, can no longer be extended to such Christians. The end result of such a position is bleak indeed!
Our battle is not against acts of sin, but the fight is to keep our Faith in who Christ is and what He did on the Cross, so we stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious. That is the only way we are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in us both to will (change our desires), and to do (give us the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13), so we can overcome sin. This is the only way believers can yield themselves as God’s servants (slaves) of obedience instead of being slaves to sin unto death (Rom. 6:16).
Remember, the scripture tells us in Acts 10 that Cornelius:
Was a devout man (but unsaved)
Who feared God with all his house (but unsaved)
Gave much alms to the people (but unsaved)
And PRAYED to God ALWAYS (but unsaved)
Saw in a vision (but unsaved)
An Angel of God came to him (but unsaved)
The Angel knew his name (but yet, unsaved)
All these things were wonderful, and certainly noticed by the Lord; but they did not save the man, even as they do not save anyone now; being religious does not constitute Salvation; there must be an acceptance of Christ and His Finished Work, if one is to be saved as Cornelius and all of his house did by hearing and believing the Gospel in its truth and righteous context from Peter. (John 3:16; Rom. 10:9-10, 13)
Placing your Faith in Christ while ignoring the Cross is another Jesus. 2 Cor. 11:4
JSM
If it's not Faith in Christ and what He did for us at the Cross, then it's Faith that God will not recognize. The apostle says, "Christ shall profit you nothing" (Gal. 5:2). He says, "Christ is become of no effect unto you" (Gal. 5:4). THAT INCLUDES YOUR PRAYERS!
That's the terrible problem that affixes itself to most Christians. They are trusting in things other than the Cross, making Christ of no effect. This guarantees spiritual failure. In fact, when the believer do this, they fall from Grace. In other words, the goodness of God, which, in effect, is the Grace of God, can no longer be extended to such Christians. The end result of such a position is bleak indeed!
Our battle is not against acts of sin, but the fight is to keep our Faith in who Christ is and what He did on the Cross, so we stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious. That is the only way we are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in us both to will (change our desires), and to do (give us the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13), so we can overcome sin. This is the only way believers can yield themselves as God’s servants (slaves) of obedience instead of being slaves to sin unto death (Rom. 6:16).
Remember, the scripture tells us in Acts 10 that Cornelius:
Was a devout man (but unsaved)
Who feared God with all his house (but unsaved)
Gave much alms to the people (but unsaved)
And PRAYED to God ALWAYS (but unsaved)
Saw in a vision (but unsaved)
An Angel of God came to him (but unsaved)
The Angel knew his name (but yet, unsaved)
All these things were wonderful, and certainly noticed by the Lord; but they did not save the man, even as they do not save anyone now; being religious does not constitute Salvation; there must be an acceptance of Christ and His Finished Work, if one is to be saved as Cornelius and all of his house did by hearing and believing the Gospel in its truth and righteous context from Peter. (John 3:16; Rom. 10:9-10, 13)
Placing your Faith in Christ while ignoring the Cross is another Jesus. 2 Cor. 11:4
JSM
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Psalm 27
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I once read that Aquinas said that everyone is born with an innate faith in ‘G_D’...I thought that maybe the cares of the world distract us from Him?
I had faith from the earliest memory, but had no ‘religious’ influence at that age, so aquinas’ theory resonated with me.
People in my church taught that Jesus was G_D, but I didn’t personally realise that until I’d completed a module on Christology.
I believe that we can teach The Gospel until we’re blue in the face, but faith is perhaps something for each individual to strive. Even the disciples asked Jesus to increase their faith! Yet, being from Jewish race, they already believed in a G_D.
Great question by the way. Love ‘straight talkers’ Think I’ll be following you now
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1213
Disciple of Jesus
It is based on these:
But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38
By faith, Noah, being warned about things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his house, through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. By faith, Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out to the place which he was to receive for an inheritance. He went out, not knowing where he went. By faith, he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise. For he looked for the city which has the foundations, whose builder and maker is God. By faith, even Sarah herself received power to conceive, and she bore a child when she was past age, since she counted him faithful who had promised.
Heb. 11:7-11
Righteous person is faithful to God and it means person does not reject God. It means person is loyal to God and trusts to His word.
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I'm stopping here without reading further because you seem to be missing an important point of what you've just said.
The answer regarding the question of salvation as given by Paul and Silas is, “Believe in the Lord Jesus …” Acts of the Apostles 16:31. The Greek word translated “believe” in the passage is pisteuo, meaning “to believe, put one’s faith in, trust, with an implication that actions based on that trust may follow.” Belief as a command, then, encompasses more than just knowing about Jesus. One must also act on this knowledge, combining faith and trust, so I would put it this way:
In Romans the Word says for salvation we must do two things - not one. The first is to confess Christ as Lord, the second is to believe in your heart in that He is raised from the dead.
On the Day of Judgment, all (*believers and unbelievers alike) will confess Christ IS Lord.
What the Christian does in his confession then is to turn from self, and bring himself under that Lordship. Christ is confessed not just as to His nature, but His nature as it relates to us right now... and this will affect our every aspect of life thereafter as we bring ourselves into submission more and more under His Lordship, hence many use the term "saving faith".
One can believe, and not place themselves under Christ's Lordship (Satan and his angels), or one can place themselves under Christ's Lordship without true belief (hedging ones bet, just in case...) or many different levels of each of these things.
I assume firstly your just talking about belief itself, and leaving Christ's Lordship over us as a different topic altogether (?).
The faith God gives, in that case, is to non-believers, to turn them from their unbelief to belief...submitting to His Lordship over us, is something that, while Christ does in us, is also developed in greater capacity over time which we also have some conscious hand in...
The commands that are given, and the letters written in the Bible, are to be certain we are bringing ourselves into submission under His Lordship in our Christian walk... an entirely different prospect altogether from belief that leads us to become Christian.
Works (living sacrifies) are done in love (and gratitude) for what Christ has done for us, but faith/belief is from God alone. When works are spoken of, they are ONLY spoken of to believers. When "faith being necessary" is spoken of, it is spoken to the lost.
Our part in moving the non-believer toward belief, outside of praying for them, is through our testimony about our faith and belief... we dont command them to belief, it's not something that can be commanded so when speaking to the lost we mention the necessity of having faith, then explain why you personally have it (give your own testimony).
If they in turn tell you why they don't believe, you have a discussion opening that you can answer to with the details they personally need for their own belief to actualize.
(I am also a 5 point Calvinist)
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What exactly is ''direct, immediate, spiritual'' Knowledge?
You already ruled common knowledge by the creation and ''head'' knowledge which I assume is the intellectual knowledge of Man,so what exactly are these things you are talking about from scripture?
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Well you claim Cornelius was performing Godly acts and a Godly person but my question is to which God were these deeds dedicated to?
Acts 10:1-2
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always
This doesn't actually say what God,does it? And in a time when the Jewish Christians were living under Roman occupation the common religion would be Paganism. We know proof-positive it existed from acts also
Acts 14:11-13
Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes.
They Worshiped Idols
Acts 19:27
So not only is this trade of ours in danger of falling into disrepute, but also the temple of the great goddess Diana may be despised and her magnificence destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worship
Cornelius needed very specific directions and details to find Peter implying he didn't know him.
Acts 10:5
5 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.
Peter was one of the most influential Christians at that time,don't you think it's odd an aspiring Christian did not know of Peter?
And it is much more likely the God Cornelius followed was one of the Roman Pagan Gods,as he was a Roman gentile. The main focus of Cornelius in the Bible is the removal of the age old apartheid between Jew and gentile when he met Peter after the Apostles vision.
The point being in all of this,it appears he did not work up faith within himself.
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For a scriptural reference, I suggest Hebrews 6:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
In terms of theologically communicable, rather than experientially communicable, here one has the description of an experience from which one cannot recover if they have had it, and still fall away. This is rather distinct from a more common falling away, and returning, under "common" Christian experience, and it is difficult to be theologically consistent without acknowledging this as a distinct form of direct experience.
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Let's be honest, I don't know exactly faith comes and you don't either. If the Gospel was a manual for salvation I think after two thousand years it would have been understood,shared and the world saved. Has that happened? Of course not,because the Gospel is not a manual for salvation.
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fhansen
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Head knowledge and common knowledge are essentially the same, both derived from reason and/or everyday experience. But there is also a "non-everyday" experience when it comes to the knowledge of God, and this experience is a supernatural gift, the gift of faith. It's been referred to by theologians as a sort of dim foretaste of the immediate knowledge of God, aka the Beatific Vision, which is to meet and behold God in heaven-to know Him- in a direct manner which He enables.
"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor 13:12
This knowledge is not common or scientific knowledge, this is personal knowledge which has been revealed and received. It's sort of like how you know a close friend; you know them, not just facts about them, but this Friend is much more beautiful and profound, needless to say. Revealing this knowledge is an intrinsic part of the reason Jesus came. Again, as we come to know God we become reconciled with Him because to truly know Him is to believe in, trust/hope in, and, most importantly, love Him-that cannot be helped. As a side note here I always appreciate the words of a 4th century bishop, Basil of Caesarea:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."
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Yes, fundamentally agreed. This actually is parallel to the very longstanding "monergism" (your salvation is all God) versus "synergism" (your salvation is partly you) debate that has gone on for centuries without definitive resolution. I put this -overall- question on the list of Mysteries of God, beyond full human earthly comprehension. However it proceeds (and I am in no way suggesting that a direct supernatural experience is necessary for salvation), you seemed to be looking for a scriptural basis for the fundamental notion of direct experience, and I think that verse is relevant. This is also a topic of longstanding debate, which you could look into if you like under the topic of "hesychasm" (for one), which was a significant historical point of contention between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.
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So this is the Apostle Paul,talking about himself and a range of spiritual gifts in the chapter. The gifts seem to be for Christians only,it does not appear to be a spiritual experience that could lead onto faith but additional gifts to the already saved. At least that is my opinion.
I am not convinced on the Knowledge leads to faith argument,I do not think there has been a strong case or evidence to support it here but that is just my view.
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