Can you have a Premillennial Kingdom with an Amillennial Christ?

Dave L · Aug 29, 2020

Many reject the gospel of the Kingdom Jesus and the disciples preached and replace it with the Millennial Kingdom of the Pharisees. How can you separate a king from his kingdom and still have a king? How can you embrace the Pharisee's Millennial Kingdom and not have their version of the Messiah?

Running2win · Aug 29, 2020

Dave L said:
Many reject the gospel of the Kingdom Jesus and the disciples preached and replace it with the Millennial Kingdom of the Pharisees. How can you separate a king from his kingdom and still have a king? How can you embrace the Pharisee's Millennial Kingdom and not have their version of the Messiah?

Sad to say Dave, you sound like a Sadducee.

Dave L · Aug 29, 2020

Running2win said:
Sad to say Dave, you sound like a Sadducee.

You need to ground your insults in scripture and prove their worth.

sovereigngrace · Aug 29, 2020

Dave L said:
Many reject the gospel of the Kingdom Jesus and the disciples preached and replace it with the Millennial Kingdom of the Pharisees. How can you separate a king from his kingdom and still have a king? How can you embrace the Pharisee's Millennial Kingdom and not have their version of the Messiah?

The Jews were wrong in their expectation. They missed it. They had the same faulty hyper-literal expectation of an earthly ethnic territorial political system that Premils have today. Premils are simply repeating the error of history. They rejected Christ's spiritual kingdom and it was redirected to the Gentiles. Millions of Gentiles have now entered that kingdom by faith.

The reason why the Jewish Scribes and Pharisees rejected Him was that He didn’t meet their hyper-literalist expectation of an earthly ethnic territorial political system. The kingdom He spoke of was spiritual and heavenly. This did not fit in with their carnal expectation. Sadly, Premils still seek after such a faulty expectation in order to justify their flawed future hope. What is more, the natural, physical, earthly ceremonial aspects of the old covenant are obliterated in the New Testament by the new covenant reality. This was presented by the legalistic religious Jewish leaders as evidence of Christ phony credentials.

I believe Premils make the exact same mistake that the Pharisees did with their belief of an earthly political kingdom and a physical material throne of David. Christ is not coming to reign for a thousand yrs over a subjugated bunch of rebels, He is Coming to destroy the wicked.

The reality is, one needs eyes to see in order to grasp the spiritual, heavenly and eternal nature of the kingdom. Jesus told us that. Unfortunately, the hyper-literalist Judaizing Pharisees did not see this with their misguided hyper-literal racist physical carnal earthly kingdom. Premil makes the same mistake. The Pharisaic expectation was completely different from God’s plan. Christ brought a spiritual heavenly kingdom to this earth not a physical natural kingdom as some imagined from their understanding of Old Testament readings.

Premil does not take text, context, and co-text into consideration. They force their hyper-literal pretext into all Scripture. The Pharisees did the same and look how that worked out for them. They misunderstood, misapplied and misinterpreted the First Advent, the kingdom and kingship of Christ.

Premil explains away clear and repeated NT Scripture with their opinion of typical and obscure OT Scripture.

Running2win · Aug 29, 2020

Dave L said:
You need to ground your insults in scripture and prove their worth.

I was just joking with you. :wave:

Heck. You can call me a Pharisee, I don't care. I think that is kinda funny too.

Tigger45 · Aug 29, 2020

Running2win said:
I was just joking with you. Heck. You can call me a Pharisee, I don't care. I think that is kinda funny too.

Right, the joke was in how you made the statement rhyme. Easy to miss though.

Running2win · Aug 29, 2020

Tigger45 said:
Right, the joke was in how you made the statement rhyme. Easy to miss though.

Exactly!

I'm a jokster, and can pretty well get along with anybody in person- even if I don't agree with them.

But it's hard to see a person personality on the computer.

Personality Types: Lion, Otter, Golden Retriever, and Beaver

Dave L · Aug 29, 2020

Running2win said:
I was just joking with you. Heck. You can call me a Pharisee, I don't care. I think that is kinda funny too.

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named amongst you, as becometh saints: neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.” Ephesians 5:3–4 (NCPB)

Dave L · Aug 29, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
The Jews were wrong in their expectation. They missed it. They had the same faulty hyper-literal expectation of an earthly ethnic territorial political system that Premils have today. Premils are simply repeating the error of history. They rejected Christ's spiritual kingdom and it was redirected to the Gentiles. Millions of Gentiles have now entered that kingdom by faith.

The reason why the Jewish Scribes and Pharisees rejected Him was that He didn’t meet their hyper-literalist expectation of an earthly ethnic territorial political system. The kingdom He spoke of was spiritual and heavenly. This did not fit in with their carnal expectation. Sadly, Premils still seek after such a faulty expectation in order to justify their flawed future hope. What is more, the natural, physical, earthly ceremonial aspects of the old covenant are obliterated in the New Testament by the new covenant reality. This was presented by the legalistic religious Jewish leaders as evidence of Christ phony credentials.

I believe Premils make the exact same mistake that the Pharisees did with their belief of an earthly political kingdom and a physical material throne of David. Christ is not coming to reign for a thousand yrs over a subjugated bunch of rebels, He is Coming to destroy the wicked.

The reality is, one needs eyes to see in order to grasp the spiritual, heavenly and eternal nature of the kingdom. Jesus told us that. Unfortunately, the hyper-literalist Judaizing Pharisees did not see this with their misguided hyper-literal racist physical carnal earthly kingdom. Premil makes the same mistake. The Pharisaic expectation was completely different from God’s plan. Christ brought a spiritual heavenly kingdom to this earth not a physical natural kingdom as some imagined from their understanding of Old Testament readings.

Premil does not take text, context, and co-text into consideration. They force their hyper-literal pretext into all Scripture. The Pharisees did the same and look how that worked out for them. They misunderstood, misapplied and misinterpreted the First Advent, the kingdom and kingship of Christ.

Premil explains away clear and repeated NT Scripture with their opinion of typical and obscure OT Scripture.

Thanks for sharing. What I'm seeing is that every eschatology has a "Jesus" to match. So you can tell which "Jesus" a person serves by their eschatology. Of course, there is only one true Christ who taught Amillennialism.

Marilyn C · Aug 29, 2020

Dave L said:
Many reject the gospel of the Kingdom Jesus and the disciples preached and replace it with the Millennial Kingdom of the Pharisees. How can you separate a king from his kingdom and still have a king? How can you embrace the Pharisee's Millennial Kingdom and not have their version of the Messiah?

Hi Dave,

The kingdom rule of Christ over Israel is but one of the Lord`s many kingships.

Remember Jesus when with His disciples did not speak to them concerning the Body of Christ, just that He was going to build His `called out ones.` The disciples only knew of the Lord`s coming rule over Israel. They did not know of the Body of Christ as that revelation was first given to the apostle Paul. Peter even tried to get the Gentile believers to act like Jews. Paul had to rebuke him. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14)

Dave L · Aug 29, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Hi Dave,

The kingdom rule of Christ over Israel is but one of the Lord`s many kingships.

Remember Jesus when with His disciples did not speak to them concerning the Body of Christ, just that He was going to build His `called out ones.` The disciples only knew of the Lord`s coming rule over Israel. They did not know of the Body of Christ as that revelation was first given to the apostle Paul. Peter even tried to get the Gentile believers to act like Jews. Paul had to rebuke him. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14)

The Church is Israel. Not the apostate Jews who exist as a nation solely because of their hatred for him.

TribulationSigns · Aug 29, 2020

Running2win said:
Exactly! I'm a jokster, and can pretty well get along with anybody in person- even if I don't agree with them. But it's hard to see a person personality on the computer.

Personality Types: Lion, Otter, Golden Retriever, and Beaver

Jokster? So you decided to make some foolish jokes specifically because you could not gainsay or resist the testimony Dave made. Obviously you are not a serious bible student here.

BABerean2 · Aug 29, 2020

Marilyn C said:
They did not know of the Body of Christ as that revelation was first given to the apostle Paul.

Really?

Paul said it was not a mystery to Hosea in the passage below.

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.

TribulationSigns · Aug 29, 2020

Marilyn C said:
The kingdom rule of Christ over Israel is but one of the Lord`s many kingships.

False. National Israel is of the world, not the spiritual kingdom of God.

John 18:36 KJV
[36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Remember Jesus when with His disciples did not speak to them concerning the Body of Christ, just that He was going to build His `called out ones.`

Incorrect again. The Old Testament congregation was part of the Body of Christ, too. It has fallen along with his death and the congregation has lost their kingdom representative. The New Testament congregation is now the Body of Christ makeup of both Gentiles and Jews.

The disciples only knew of the Lord`s coming rule over Israel. They did not know of the Body of Christ as that revelation was first given to the apostle Paul. Peter even tried to get the Gentile believers to act like Jews. Paul had to rebuke him. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14)

You do not really understand the covenant relationship between God and His People. The physical temple, city, the congregation of the Old Testament was indeed the body of Christ. Didn't you read the Scripture?

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

The Jews DID put Christ to death at the Cross. What happened in 3 days? What happened to the temple of His Body - the congregation of Israel? Think carefully.

Running2win · Aug 29, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Jokster? So you decided to make some foolish jokes specifically because you could not gainsay or resist the testimony Dave made. Obviously you are not a serious bible student here.

Guess I'm not cause I'm not Amill.

But the Jesus I believe in is Post-Trib and Pre-Mill.

The Glorious Return

29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Marilyn C · Aug 29, 2020

Dave L said:
The Church is Israel. Not the apostate Jews who exist as a nation solely because of their hatred for him.

`The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that od Judah.

In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem....

It shall be in that day that I will destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; ....` (Zech. 12: 7 - 10)

God`s grace to us and God`s grace to Israel.

Marilyn C · Aug 29, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Really?

Paul said it was not a mystery to Hosea in the passage below.

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Yes Paul shows that the Gentiles were known in the OT as coming to God. However the revelation of the Body of Christ - the two becoming ONE was NOT known. Paul says -

`How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery;....which in other ages WAS NOT MADE KNOWN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the SAME BODY; and partakers of His promise in Christ...` (Eph. 3: 3 - 6)

`

TribulationSigns · Aug 29, 2020

Marilyn C said:
`How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery;....which in other ages WAS NOT MADE KNOWN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the SAME BODY; and partakers of His promise in Christ...` (Eph. 3: 3 - 6)

Jesus Christ "IS" Israel, that we grafted into it...in Him. Not national Israel. Once the building of the church is finished, there will not be any more salvation after this. Therefore, there won't be national salvation for national Israel in the Middle East in the future as premillennialists believe. Sorry.

TribulationSigns · Aug 29, 2020

Running2win said:
Guess I'm not cause I'm not Amill. But the Jesus I believe in is Post-Trib and ~~Pre-Mill.~~

The Glorious Return

29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

This IS HAPPENING. Do you even know what the sun, moon, and stars represent? (Hint: The apostate of the Congregation of Israel the church). And then the Second Coming at the last trump.

4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

It is already happening and it has been since Pentecost. Regenerated Christians now reign with Christ! We are the 24 elders. The kingdom of God is here right out through us. Not some future literal physical kingdom.

You need to read this study. 24 Elders - the Congregation of Israel - The kings and priests.

BABerean2 · Aug 29, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Yes Paul shows that the Gentiles were known in the OT as coming to God. However the revelation of the Body of Christ - the two becoming ONE was NOT known. Paul says -

`How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery;....which in other ages WAS NOT MADE KNOWN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the SAME BODY; and partakers of His promise in Christ...` (Eph. 3: 3 - 6)

If read in context, we find that it was not revealed to the "sons of men" in the past, by now it is revealed to His holy "apostles", and "prophets" PLURAL, not singular as in only Paul.

`How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery;....which in other ages WAS NOT MADE KNOWN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the SAME BODY; and partakers of His promise in Christ...` (Eph. 3: 3 - 6)

The text does not say what you are claiming.

.

Can you have a Premillennial Kingdom with an Amillennial Christ?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Pray like your life depends on it!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Pre-tribulation.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Similar threads