The Situation Is Much Worse Than When There Was Truly Rioting In The Streets

mark46

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There was rioting in the streets across the country in the late 60's, after the many assassinations. There was much more involved than a block of downtown as in Portland. I strongly agree that rioting and wrong and there should be prosecutions.

The difference in the 60's was that 1/3 of the country didn't accept the right of the police and vigilantees to shoot black men in the back for not following instructions, or for damaging a storefront.

After promising "law and order" in 2016, it has taken 4 years for Trump and followers to define what they meant. It is now clear. The current situation is what happens under Trump. There is no reason for anyone to expect that this wouldn't continue with 4 more years.

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America has a choice. We choose between visions for the future of America.
 

Bobber

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It is now clear. The current situation is what happens under Trump. There is no reason for anyone to expect that this wouldn't continue with 4 more years.

Sorry but the only thing that is clear that it's an absolute bunch of nonsense in what you're saying!
The current situations is because left wing extremists want to do one thing and one thing only....make it seem everyone is in chaos. First of all it' local officials fault and then it's Governors of the states primary fault many of them which are on the left who wouldn't take proper measures to stop what' going on. And then when the President offers to help the Governors say no! So they create a scenario where they won't even allow him to do anything and claim he's at fault?

America has a choice. We choose between visions for the future of America.

Yeah and too bad the Dems didn't even have the vision to stand up from the beginning saying the craziness HAS GOT TO STOP! You spoke of vision. They couldn't SEE what everybody else was seeing?
 
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Fantine

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I remember Kent State. National Guardsmen, confused and inexperienced, killed four students. The nation was in an.uproar.

On Tuesday an underage militia member with an AR15 murdered two and wounded a third. The police who had earlier given him water waved him by. The police chief said the victims were out past curfew. Soulless alt fighters are praising him as a hero. I just read a "Christian?" group raised $100,000. For his defense!

At least Go Fund Me shut down all fundraisers for Rittenhouse and returned donors' money.

Where are the presidents' sympathies? Shrug.

Another good guy with a gun reveals the violence in his heart. There has to be a better way to screen out the bad guys than waiting till they kill someone and saying "oops."
 
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mark46

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I remember Kent State. National Guardsmen, confused and inexperienced, killed four students. The nation was in an.uproar.
.

The country its in a different place. For 1/3 of the country or more this is NOT an outrage. At best, for them, it a matter for the courts. There is simply nothing wrong in someone getting his long gun off the shelf, and going into town looking to help the police protect us my shooting blacks.
 
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mark46

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And just BTW, in the 60's, there was real danger for all from terrorist groups.

Now, there are 3 dangerous groups: the far right, the far left, and the bad cops. We need to recognize all three dangers.
 
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civilwarbuff

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On Tuesday an underage militia member with an AR15 murdered two
Which is a lie since no one has been convicted of murder.
I just read a "Christian?" group raised $100,000. For his defense!
I see, a person is not entitled to a defense?....which I am sure you are aware of can cost tens of thousands of dollars even if found innocent....but you already knew that.....
Where are the presidents' sympathies? Shrug.
I dunno, maybe with the person who, for those of us who actually take time to view the videos, see an individual being attacked by a mob? That seems to be a good place for sympathies......
Another good guy with a gun reveals the violence in his heart.
Another leftist mob with violence in their heart demonstrates their hatred of those who would oppose them.
 
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Desk trauma

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Where are the presidents' sympathies? Shrug.
Hopefully we don’t find out as the situation will not be helped by hamfisted inflammatory intervention from the White House.
 
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Fantine

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Which is a lie since no one has been convicted of murder.

I see, a person is not entitled to a defense?....which I am sure you are aware of can cost tens of thousands of dollars even if found innocent....but you already knew that.....

I dunno, maybe with the person who, for those of us who actually take time to view the videos, see an individual being attacked by a mob? That seems to be a good place for sympathies......

Another leftist mob with violence in their heart demonstrates their hatred of those who would oppose them.
I watched the video, and the events that occurred are also chronicled in this article.
Kyle Rittenhouse charged with homicide in Kenosha protest shootings

A phone call Rittenhouse made to a friend saying, "I shot someone," is also on the video.

He has been charged with murder and is being tried as an adult. Some murder trials are based on a preponderance of circumstantial evidence, but in this case there is much more than that. There is premeditation and motivation in his inflammatory and hateful FB and social media posts. There is actual video footage of him shooting the victims. There is the recorded phone call of him confessing to the crimes.

He has a public defender at the moment. I am sure that lawyers like Alan Dershowitz would be willing to join the media circus and write a book about it later.

That, in effect, is a greater crime---because in doing so he encourages other militia with hatred in their heart to confront peaceful protesters.

While I can understand that there might be a small modicum of sympathy for Rittenhouse because of his age and perhaps a childhood filled with experiences that psychologists could write treatises about are there not many more worthy charities and causes to take up?

Perhaps these Christians are parents with angry, aggressive, possibly sociopathic teens themselves who wonder what they are doing holed up in their bedrooms or what they do when they go out with the AR 15's their parents bought them as Christmas gifts...their donations showing their guilt and fear that their own children are already too far gone from the toxic values they have been raised with.

A better use of their money might have been to donate to charities that help victimes of violence or their families. How many orphaned children are out there whose parents have been shot down in cold blood?

The scariest thing is that some of Rittenhouse's supporters are not acting with the misguided view that he was acting "in self defense" but rather with the idea that he did the right thing!!!

BTW, how can someone who comes heavily armed to confront a group of people, being the aggressor, then complain he was defending himself?

Here is some information about the victims. The two who were killed attempted to disarm Rittenhouse unsuccessfully, the first by throwing a plastic bag at him, the second with a skateboard. The man who was wounded was there as a volunteer medic. He also tried to stop Rittenhouse. He did have a gun--but did not attempt to act until after he saw Rittenhouse murder the first two victims. He is conscious and will, I am sure, be able to testify as well.

How can you claim "self defense" in killing someone who threw a plastic bag at you????

Victims of Kenosha protest shooting tried to disarm Kyle Rittenhouse: Reports
 
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mark46

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This one of the 4 top issues in the election (along with COVID, healthcare, and incompetence.

Some truly want to fund (and celebrate) 17 year olds who carry assault rifles to other states to defend a car dealership and threaten any that would in any way damage that dealership. They celebrate the threatening and use of lethal force in that effort.

I am saying nothing about the court case. That is another matter. I suspect that most (on both sides) will not like the result.

For me, if I am attacked by someone, I don't aiutomatically have the right to kill my assialant. Certainly, that is true for anyone who is in law enforcement, or pretending to assist law enforcement.

I watched the video, and the events that occurred are also chronicled in this article.
Kyle Rittenhouse charged with homicide in Kenosha protest shootings

A phone call Rittenhouse made to a friend saying, "I shot someone," is also on the video.

He has been charged with murder and is being tried as an adult. Some murder trials are based on a preponderance of circumstantial evidence, but in this case there is much more than that. There is premeditation and motivation in his inflammatory and hateful FB and social media posts. There is actual video footage of him shooting the victims. There is the recorded phone call of him confessing to the crimes.

He has a public defender at the moment. I am sure that lawyers like Alan Dershowitz would be willing to join the media circus and write a book about it later.

That, in effect, is a greater crime---because in doing so he encourages other militia with hatred in their heart to confront peaceful protesters.

While I can understand that there might be a small modicum of sympathy for Rittenhouse because of his age and perhaps a childhood filled with experiences that psychologists could write treatises about are there not many more worthy charities and causes to take up?

Perhaps these Christians are parents with angry, aggressive, possibly sociopathic teens themselves who wonder what they are doing holed up in their bedrooms or what they do when they go out with the AR 15's their parents bought them as Christmas gifts...their donations showing their guilt and fear that their own children are already too far gone from the toxic values they have been raised with.

A better use of their money might have been to donate to charities that help victimes of violence or their families. How many orphaned children are out there whose parents have been shot down in cold blood?

The scariest thing is that some of Rittenhouse's supporters are not acting with the misguided view that he was acting "in self defense" but rather with the idea that he did the right thing!!!

BTW, how can someone who comes heavily armed to confront a group of people, being the aggressor, then complain he was defending himself?
 
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renniks

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The difference in the 60's was that 1/3 of the country didn't accept the right of the police and vigilantees to shoot black men in the back for not following instructions, or for damaging a storefront.
Are you for real?
It was perfectly legal to shoot looters in the 60s.

In 1967, a Miami Herald report on Headley’s comments said “his men have been told that any force, up to and including death, is proper when apprehending a felon.”

You know full well most people don't agree with this now and the police are using non-lethal methods.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I watched the video, and the events that occurred are also chronicled in this article.
Kyle Rittenhouse charged with homicide in Kenosha protest shootings
And the 1st thing shown on your video is him being chased by a group of men. Then he falls and is assaulted at least twice. Afterwards he walks toward police cars (that are only now showing up) with his rifle held high in the air (universal sign of surrender).(Edit: with his hands in the air not his rifle) So from that what makes you believe he committed murder?
A phone call Rittenhouse made to a friend saying, "I shot someone," is also on the video.
Correct....he did not say he murdered someone....
He has been charged with murder and is being tried as an adult. Some murder trials are based on a preponderance of circumstantial evidence, but in this case there is much more than that. There is premeditation and motivation in his inflammatory and hateful FB and social media posts. There is actual video footage of him shooting the victims. There is the recorded phone call of him confessing to the crimes.
There is actual video of him being assaulted while on the ground (you did see that part, right?).
That, in effect, is a greater crime---because in doing so he encourages other militia with hatred in their heart to confront peaceful protesters.
That is simply leftist conjecture on your part.
While I can understand that there might be a small modicum of sympathy for Rittenhouse because of his age and perhaps a childhood filled with experiences that psychologists could write treatises about are there not many more worthy charities and causes to take up?
And your evidence to support such imaginative story?.....or perhaps listening to far too much CNN and MSNBC TV psychologists....you know, those that throw out diagnosis' without ever meeting the person?
Perhaps these Christians are parents with angry, aggressive, possibly sociopathic teens themselves who wonder what they are doing holed up in their bedrooms or what they do when they go out with the AR 15's their parents bought them as Christmas gifts...their donations showing their guilt and fear that their own children are already too far gone from the toxic values they have been raised with.
Less hyperbole and more facts please.....
The scariest thing is that some of Rittenhouse's supporters are not acting with the misguided view that he was acting "in self defense" but rather with the idea that he did the right thing!!!
That he defended himself from assault is a positive defense one that jury's are receptive to.
BTW, how can someone who comes heavily armed to confront a group of people, being the aggressor, then complain he was defending himself?
That's easy: You have a mob that has enough stupid to go around thinking that it is a good idea to try to chase down an armed person. That is just plain down right Stupid.....
 
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civilwarbuff

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For me, if I am attacked by someone, I don't aiutomatically have the right to kill my assialant.
You have the absolute right to defend yourself during an attack. Whether or not you use lethal force....well that's a personal choice. If a mob were chasing me I wouldn't hesitate to use any amount of force to defend myself.
 
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renniks

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For me, if I am attacked by someone, I don't aiutomatically have the right to kill my assialant. Certainly, that is true for anyone who is in law enforcement, or pretending to assist law enforcement
If you don't have that right, you should. It's a basic, fundamental human right.
 
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Yttrium

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The difference in the 60's was that 1/3 of the country didn't accept the right of the police and vigilantees to shoot black men in the back for not following instructions, or for damaging a storefront.

I think you have an overly optimistic view of public opinion in the '60s. Racism was still mighty strong back then.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I think you have an overly optimistic view of public opinion in the '60s. Racism was still mighty strong back then.
Got that right.....there were still lynchings going on in the south....
 
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Yttrium

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You have the absolute right to defend yourself during an attack. Whether or not you use lethal force....well that's a personal choice. If a mob were chasing me I wouldn't hesitate to use any amount of force to defend myself.

Same here. On the other hand, I wouldn't travel to another state, arm myself with a very visible rifle, and insert myself into a riot. Rittenhouse basically engineered a situation in which he had to defend himself.

I'm going to be following this case very closely. It seems to me that it could have very different outcomes in different states. In one state, he might be convicted of murder, in another manslaughter, and in another he might be found not guilty due to self-defense. It's a challenging legal problem.
 
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mark46

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If you don't have that right, you should. It's a basic, fundamental human right.
In almost all jurisdictions in the US, a policeman does not have the right to use lethal force to protect property, unless his LIFE is in danger.
 
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JackRT

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No reasonable person drives to another state with a loaded assault rifle to protect someone else's property from largely peaceful protestors. He goes there to strut around brandishing his weapon in order to intimidate and demonstrate what a big man he is. He got himself into a tight spot that way and used far FAR more force than necessary. He took two human lives and almost a third. We have a word for that --- murder.
 
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civilwarbuff

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No reasonable person drives to another state with a loaded assault rifle to protect someone else's property from largely peaceful protestors. He goes there to strut around brandishing his weapon in order to intimidate and demonstrate what a big man he is. He got himself into a tight spot that way and used far FAR more force than necessary. He took two human lives and almost a third. We have a word for that --- murder.
How stupid does a person have to be to attempt to chase down an armed person?.....Incredibly stupid?....stupendously stupid? If the rioters had not attempted to chase him down they would be alive and uninjured today. There was no reason to chase; pictures turned over to the police would have accomplished all that was necessary.
 
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