After Watching RNC 1 Life Long Democrat Switching To Trump

Arcangl86 said:

He wasn't paying attention then. God and faith were regularly mentioned during the DNC. It's just an excuse to justify voting for Trump.

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DNC delegates move to drop "Under God" from the pledge.

DNC delegates drop ‘under God’ from Pledge of Allegiance

BobRyan said:

virginia is one of them
Virginia Democrats Kill Bill to Protect Babies Who Survive Abortions After Northam Defends Infanticide

VA Gov. Northam: Abortion Bill Leaves Born Babies' Lives Up to Doctors and Mothers to Decide

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Except of course there is a different between mandating care and allowing somebody to affirmatively kill a baby. It's like if I saw somebody get shot, did nothing to help him, he died, and I got charged with murder. We have a strong tradition in this country of not proscribing affirmative duties.

Bobber said:

It'd be interesting to see the count how many times. It seemed to me no where near as much.

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Oh I'm sure that's true. That's not the same thing as the Democrats "pushing God right out of it"

BobRyan said:

DNC delegates move to drop "Under God" from the pledge.

DNC delegates drop ‘under God’ from Pledge of Allegiance

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That's two caucuses of the party, and they dropped a pro forma reference to God that wasn't added to the pledge until half a century after it was written. And it appears that only one person said the pledge in both cases, and we have no idea if that was approved before hand.

BobRyan said:

And how about now?

Trump up by 11 points over Biden with independents.
Tied with Biden in other areas or leading Biden...

RNC convention is crushing the everything-is-darkness-somebody-give-us-some-light group.

I saw a pundit yesterday claim that he thinks the DNC chose Biden because they thought he could lose with the least collateral damage to the party. Not sure if his guess is correct or not. But given that they had a pretty talented field of candidates to start with - it is very odd that they ended up this way.

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I believe that the people chose Biden in the preliminaries... cause the rest were wacked... for one reason or another. The big reason was the fact that others are pushing so hard for socialism...

Having Biden as the runner... I bet he was told to choose Kamalla as the VP because she is going to end up as President when Biden is found mentally unfit for the office...

Then... the Dems will have their socialist in power.. just like they wanted... even though the people rejected her and the other socialists.

She is who they want.. A woman of color... socialist and promoting full term abortions, she certainly does not stand for biblical values...

The dems can carry on with the legacy that Obama was building, but Trump is disassembling....

RickardoHolmes said:

There is this concept in America called the "separation of Church and State" which MUST never ever be changed. Republicans are desperate, and think that they can fool the religious right into supporting them. Do not fall for it.

Trump a Christian? HA ! His example shows otherwise, no matter what rhetoric they suddenly want to spew out at election time.

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No matter how hard you try to separate "Church and State"... it will always be there. This is evident by the simple fact that the government is going to decide on full term abortions or not...

You cannot get around it... If bringing Christian values into the mix... in order to stop child sacrifice... then you are combining church and state.

RickardoHolmes said:

There is this concept in America called the "separation of Church and State" which MUST never ever be changed. Republicans are desperate, and think that they can fool the religious right into supporting them. Do not fall for it.

Trump a Christian? HA ! His example shows otherwise, no matter what rhetoric they suddenly want to spew out at election time.

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1st Amendeme

RickardoHolmes said:

There is this concept in America called the "separation of Church and State" which MUST never ever be changed. Republicans are desperate, and think that they can fool the religious right into supporting them. Do not fall for it.

Trump a Christian? HA ! His example shows otherwise, no matter what rhetoric they suddenly want to spew out at election time.

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I think maybe the Supreme Court Justice who quoted that phrase was a little confused about the “concept.” His concept seemed to be a little more in lines with the old USSR’s concept below rather than the concept of our founders.

ARTICLE 124. In order to ensure to citizens freedom of conscience, the church in the U.S.S.R. is separated from the state, and the school from the church. Freedom of religious worship and freedom of antireligious propaganda is recognized for all citizens.

The 1st amendment protected the people and their states from the propensity of a large central government using its power to impose restrictions on the Expression of the people’s religious principles by their state and local governments. By either superimposing a federal religion or non religious principles. By the way exactly as we have seen happening since The courts adopted the “concept” you mentioned. This is easily seen by reading THE PRIMARY source documents of the founders on this subject. Which are their state constitutions. Written by the same folks who led in the ratification of the federal constitution. I have the first 18 or so listed on my website. The only website on the internet that has all of these on one page by the way. The religious expressions are highlighted like the state of a Maryland 1776 here.
XXXIII. That, as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to him; all persons, professing the Christian religion, are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate on account of his religious persuasion or profession, or for his religious practice; unless, under color of religion, any man shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others, in their natural, civil, or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain any particular place of worship, or any particular ministry; yet the Legislature may, in their discretion, lay a general and equal tax for the support of the Christian religion; leaving to each individual the power of appointing the payment over of the money, collected from him, to the support of any particular place of worship or minister, or for the benefit of the poor of his own denomination, or the poor in general of any particular county: but the churches, chapels, globes, and all other property now belonging to the church of England, ought to remain to the church of England forever. And all acts of Assembly, lately passed, for collecting monies for building or repairing particular churches or chapels of ease, shall continue in force, and be executed, unless the Legislature shall, by act, supersede or repeal the same: but no county court shall assess any quantity of tobacco, or sum of money, hereafter, on the application of any vestrymen or church-wardens; and every incumbent of the church of England, who hath remained in his parish, and performed his duty, shall be entitled to receive the provision and support established by the act, entitled "An act for the support of the clergy of the church of England, in this Province," till the November court of this present year to be held for the county in which his parish shall lie, or partly lie, or for such time as he has remained in his parish, and performed his duty.

XXXIV. That every gift, sale, or devise of lands, to any minister, public teacher, or preacher of the gospel, as such, or to any religious sect, order or denomination, or to or for the support, use or benefit of, or in trust for, any minister, public teacher, or preacher of the gospel, as such, or any religious sect, order or denomination-and every gift or sale of good-e, or chattels, to go in succession, or to take place after the death of the seller or donor, or to or for such support, use or benefit-and also every devise of goods or chattels to or for the support, use or benefit of any minister, public teacher, or preacher of the gospel, as such, or any religious sect, order, or denomination, without the leave of the Legislature, shall be void; except always any sale, gift, lease or devise of any quantity of land, not exceeding two acres, for a church, meeting, or other house of worship, and for a burying-ground, which shall be improved, enjoyed or used only for such purpose-or such sale, gift, lease, or devise, shall be void.

XXXVI. That the manner of administering an oath to any person, ought to be such, as those of the religious persuasion, profession, or denomination, of which such person is one, generally esteem the most effectual confirmation, by the attestation of the Divine Being. And that the people called Quakers, those called Dunkers, and those called Menonists, holding it unlawful to take an oath on any occasion, ought to be allowed to make their solemn affirmation, in the manner that Quakers have been heretofore allowed to affirm; and to be of the same avail as an oath, in all such cases, as the affirmation of Quakers hath been allowed and accepted within this State, instead of an oath. And further, on such affirmation, warrants to search for stolen goods, or for the apprehension or commitment of offenders, ought to be granted, or security for the peace awarded, and Quakers, Dunkers or Menonists ought also, on their solemn affirmation as aforesaid, to be admitted as witnesses, in all criminal cases not capital.

XXXVII. That no Senator, Delegate of Assembly member of the Council, if he shall qualify as such, shall hold or execute any office of profit, or receive the profits of any office exercised by any other person, during the time for which he shall be elected; nor shall any (governor be capable of holding any other office of profit in this State, while he acts as such. And no person, holding a place of profit or receiving any part of the profits thereof, or receiving the profits or any part of the profits arising on any agency, for the supply of clothing or provisions for the Army or Navy, or holding any office under the United States, or any of them-or a minister, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination-or any person, employed in the regular land service, or marine, of this or the United States-shall have a seat in the General Assembly or the Council of this State.

LV. That every person, appointed to any office of profit or trust, shall, before he enters on the execution thereof, take the following oath; to wit :-" I, A. B., do swear, that I do not hold myself bound in allegiance to the King of Great Britain, and that I will be faithful, and bear true allegiance to the State of Maryland; " and shall also subscribe a declaration of his belief in the Christian religion.

The Original State Constitutions

JacksBratt said:

No matter how hard you try to separate "Church and State"... it will always be there. This is evident by the simple fact that the government is going to decide on full term abortions or not...

You cannot get around it... If bringing Christian values into the mix... in order to stop child sacrifice... then you are combining church and state.

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It was Christian values that ended slavery in Europe and in America.

"The British campaign to abolish the slave trade is generally considered to have begun in the 1780s with the establishment of the Quakers' anti-slavery committees, and their presentation to Parliament of the first slave trade petition in 1783"

"In later years, Wilberforce supported the campaign for the complete abolition of slavery, and continued his involvement after 1826, when he resigned from Parliament because of his failing health. That campaign led to the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, which abolished slavery in most of the British Empire. Nov 25 2019"

Separation of Church and State never meant separation of church from state which is why those same founders voted to have tax-paid church pastors give prayer and the opening of each session of congress.

It meant that the State could not demand that citizens affiliate with any particular church and it meant that church membership could not be added as a requirement to hold public office in the federal government. (States eventually figured that one out as well).

Extreme leftists re-imagine that as "banishment of church values/icons/memorials/yearly-holidays from the local arena or any government function"

And while I would oppose any government intrusion on the weekly-day-of-worship to mandate or forbid it, I do agree that Christian values have guided our nation to make just laws and equality for mankind - as can be seen between the two houses of congress in that big mural painted in the stairwell, of the signing of the constitution.

other examples - Images of faith preserved at Capitol attest to role of religion in U.S.

BobRyan said:

Extreme leftists re-imagine that as "banishment of church values/icons/memorials/yearly-holidays from the local arena or any government function"

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Your totally right. I’d just like to add some extra wording to it. What the federal and state constitutions forbid is the State preventing the expression of the people’s religious (Biblical) principles in the laws. Either through some kind secular pseudo philosophy as we see today. (Congress shall not forbid the free exercise of.) Or through an Official state imposed church. (Congress shall make no laws establishing religion.)

The issue With Bible based Christianity has always been the Bible. For 1400 years after Christ it was either outright banned or one could only possess one legally with special political connections. Any time that some local authorities or the people started to gain some access to scripture. The powers that existed would just come in and wipe them out. You can see the same thing in communist nations. Bibles are illegal and there is a state imposed church. Not to promote Christianity but to control it.

The issue has always been and despotic government has always understood it this way. The Bible in the hands of the general public is a danger to despotism. Christians are rarely persecuted for their “faith” as secularists understand faith. What Bible reading Christians have always been persecuted for is the danger theY pose to despotic rule. And why is this? Because the principles and doctrines of the scripture backed by the power and providence of God are expressed in freedom, personal responsibility, good and limited human government, good laws, the rule of law instead of the arbitrary rule of men. Basically awesome civilizations. The free world we now came about because the Bible got into the hands of the general public for the first time in human history right after the fall of he Roman Empire in 1453 AD. That finally gave people the power To begin to throw off the despotic order of the ancient world. Which included slavery.

So here we are by the design of secularists who used the courts to illegally remove the study of the Bible from our public school systems. And leftist influenced university’s libeling, slandering the scripture in a bid to get young impressionable students to never honestly read it. Beset by a Bible ignorant culture in a cultural war to put no restrictions on Christians to meet in church and in their personal lives live up to the standards they think scripture teaches. AS IF that is all the Bible teaches and all our constitutions allow.

The fact is we have already almost lost this war because the vast majority Christians have already been brainwashed to believe that their religious principle should not be expressed in our laws and our governments. And courts will throw out any common sense law they dislike with the excuse that religious principle is “unconstitutional.” That is the way the left seeks to eventually rule over the free world which of course. If it is ruled over will cease to be the Biblically promised and prophesied free world.
*Note. They will lose this battle according to Bible prophecy. But certainly win some battles.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Your totally right. I’d just like to add some extra wording to it. What the federal and state constitutions forbid is the State preventing the expression of the people’s religious (Biblical) principles in the laws.

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I agree with "no state church" etc...

but take a look at this

http://thebiblicalthinker.com/pdfdownloads/Biblical_principles_of_our_Constitution.pdf

It appears that a lot of Christian principles got in.

JacksBratt said:

Well, thanks for all the information and evidence to support your blatant disagreement. (snip)

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...the post I responded to didn't support any of the claims they made, shouldn't you have pointed that out? You might want to familiarize yourself with "Hitchens's razor":

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

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found here: Hitchens's razor - Wikipedia
tulc(finds using that rule really cuts down on unnecessary typing)

If they continue to remove religious expression from the culture the state will be the voice from above and we will have a state that is religion.

Eloy Craft said:

If they continue to remove religious expression from the culture the state will be the voice from above and we will have a state that is religion.

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In a world where "state is the new religion" whose ever riot-and-violence movement is first to hijack the reins of state -- is the new "god" and would "own" your conscience.

That would be the "perfect storm"

BobRyan said:

I agree with "no state church" etc...

but take a look at this

http://thebiblicalthinker.com/pdfdownloads/Biblical_principles_of_our_Constitution.pdf

It appears that a lot of Christian principles got in.

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That’s good. Here is another. Biblical principle regarding the second amendment.
The Second Amendment

Bobber said:

"They Put God into Everything": Ohio Caller Tells C-SPAN He Is Changing From Lifelong Democrat to Republican After Watching GOP Convention

The caller felt the Dems did everything they could to exclude God from hardly ever being mentioned. Thought that was interesting. Any thoughts?

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I think the caller is gullible, has a shallow notion of what it means to worship God, and enjoys being pandered to.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Here is THE thing. THE THING that is driving Trump, causing all the division and hopefully that the Republican Party as a whole is catching up to. MAGA is God’s agenda. Not for America’s sake but for the whole worlds sake. To make the whole world freer and more prosperous. To bless the 100’s of millions people who have become Christians in the last few decades but live under harsh developing world or despotic world conditions. To bless the hundreds of millions more that will become Christians in the next few decades. And a whole host of other reasons to numerous to list here.

That my friends and foes is what makes Donald Trump a man after Gods own heart. Not that Trump is a good person! But that Trump is a person who has Gods vision for the world in his heart AND THEREFORE can be used by God to implement strategic parts of that vision.

That is the true spiritual nature of this and the reason for the unparalleled opposition to the man. It is also a means for God to execute judgement. He has been progressively providing light to the people of this nation along these lines which he knows many, because of selfish ambitions, personal interests and proud hearts will progressively reject. This is the same way ”God hardened” the heart of Pharaoh. By giving Pharaoh light God knew he would reject. This causes progressive irrational self destructive behavior in the people who’s hearts are being hardened. On the other hand blessings in those that recognize God’s hand in this situation and go with it.

Now I’m sorry that God could not find a moral man or mature Christian to work with in HIS agenda. But he at least has A man. People are fighting against that man at their own peril. It’s also why many a Christian are Trump supporters. It’s not because they think he is a saint or that he will do everything right. It’s because they see the spiritual nature of the agenda and know it is from heaven.

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There were several other options in the 2016 Republican primaries who were more conservative than Trump and more pro-Christian, both in their private lives and their public personas. From the perspective that Republican==Christian, God found many moral, mature people to do his work, but voters rejected them. You guys chose the lying, narcissistic race-baiter with the mountain of conflicts of interest.

Eloy Craft said:

Trump has done more and stood up more for Christians and Christian values than any other President. I can put up with his behavior as long as he's helping to keep the lefts Brave New World from emerging.

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I don't suppose you could provide some examples of these things he's done, and contrast that with the actions of previous presidents (especially previous Republican presidents).

iluvatar5150 said:

I think the caller is gullible, has a shallow notion of what it means to worship God, and enjoys being pandered to. .

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It appears you did not watch both conventions "closely".

BobRyan said:

DNC delegates move to drop "Under God" from the pledge.

DNC delegates drop ‘under God’ from Pledge of Allegiance

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BobRyan said:

It appears you did not watch both conventions "closely".

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I didn't watch either one (I watched Biden's speech and the first half of Kim Guilfoyle's). But I didn't have to watch it to make that assessment of the caller's interpretation. If you're picking up a love for God from a bunch of campaign speeches from a bunch of politicians, many of whom are not very religious in their private lives, then you're gullible and you're looking to be pandered to.

iluvatar5150 said:

I didn't watch either one .

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Ok .. well that explains it.

BobRyan said:

Ok .. well that explains it.

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What am I supposed to pick up from the speeches that would contradict what I said? I didn't claim that the Republicans didn't make more appeals to God than the Democrats did - I expect that Republicans did and I would be surprised if they didn't. I'm not challenging the underlying facts. I'm criticizing this caller's interpretation of them.

iluvatar5150 said:

There were several other options in the 2016 Republican primaries who were more conservative than Trump and more pro-Christian, both in their private lives and their public personas. From the perspective that Republican==Christian, God found many moral, mature people to do his work, but voters rejected them. You guys chose the lying, narcissistic race-baiter with the mountain of conflicts of interest.

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Aside from the typical slander directed at Trump. You are also slanderously misrepresenting the Evangelical\Pentecostal vote in the Republican primary.

The GOP had a field of over a dozen viable candidates for the nomination. The Evangelical\Pentecostal vote is definitely the base of the Republican party. But Trump did not win the nomination with their vote. Their vote was all divided up between other acceptable Candidates. Especially Cruz and Rubio. Cruz almost won the nomination with strictly that base of the parties votes and if the field had been just a little bit narrower he would have won. This was true even though Cruz was the most hated candidate among the secular\moderate\protestant\elitist wing of the party as well as the Democratic party because he is a real Christian. I myself was 100% behind Cruz but would not have minded one or two of the other candidates either.

Trump won the primary as an outsider with a coalition of about 1/3 Evangelical Republicans who knew something about him the rest of us did not. The rest were new voters. Alt right voters. ( By alt right I mean voters who come out of their basements every dozen years or so to screw up an election by voting for someone like Ross Perot. This time it was Trump. Anti evangelical Republicans, Democrats who actually like the Donald and and also Democrats who are Hillary supporters but were helping elect the candidate they wanted Hillary to run against. Every candidate constantly polled as beating Hillary except Trump. It was a very different primary than we have ever had before. Especially as the alt right and anti-evangelical (anti Christ) republicans engaged in a fake news campaign led by Drudge and others in favor of Trump. (Anyone wonder why Drudge hates Trump so much now? He wanted an anti Christian candidate but instead got the most pro Christian candidate the USA has had in decades.)

So to characterize Trumps nomination as the result of the Evangelical\Pentecostal vote is just a lie. The man went out an won it, not so fair and square but he won. Once he was the nominee. Did you expect us Christians to vote for the worlds biggest kleptocrat that has piles of dead bodies laying around their political career? Not on you life.

However I will say I had a very spiritual experience about Trumps run from the day I first saw that he was what I thought, pandering to the base and might make some headway. I yielded to what God was doing in my spirit. In other words I obeyed in faith even though intellectually I had no idea what was going on. It took all the way up until a few days before the general election before my mind grasped what God put down in my spirit about Trump many months before. It wasn't until had won the nomination and spoke at Gettysburg before I became comfortable with the thought of voting for him. Not because I changed my mind about the way I saw him. But after he won. Like McCain and Romney before him; I just thought he was another North Eastern liberal Republican who was deceiving the base running in the primary as a conservative to get their votes. Then once he won he would like them, start his pandering to the left and then lose like they did. But nope. He did the opposite. Once he won he doubled down on his promotion of conservative principles. Even though I had not changed my mind about him at that point. I thought. "Is the man really that smart?" "Does he really understand the political landscape that much that he is going to do exactly what he needs to do at this point to win the race against Hillary?" Turns out he was and much more. But then up until the election night I really began to see some things about him in the spirit. Afterwards I found dozens of prophecies on video about his election and what it would be like and what he would do. These are video's going back in some cases over a decade. And were they right on.

In short this is why he has the Evangelical \Pentecostal support he has now. The majority of these folks might not have had the supernatural experiences I have had about all this. Nor got to stumble upon all the prophetic utterances about the man and this era that started four years ago. But they like me sure see what he has done and they are certainly intuitively and conscientiously aware of God being in all this. So that is why our protestations of hypocrisy are falling on deaf ears. Even if he was as you accuse him. We would still be voting that, because that is a far less evil than the democratic party.