The Militia Involved In Kenosha

Kentonio · Aug 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
You're crazy...

I’ve been called worse.

Mobs... crowds.... can you discern a difference? Do you know why I haven't been gassed? I have the common sense to know when something is up. You get out of there. The people that stay are complicit. They know what is going on.

If you have a crowd of thousands of peaceful protestors and then someone throws a rock or breaks a window, do you reasonably expect those thousands of people to all just immediately leave? For one thing most of them will have no idea anything untoward has even happened, and for another having that many people all flooding to escape is likely to result in a really bad outcome. It would also make it much harder for the police to actually identify who is actually causing the trouble in the first place.

I haven't seen many 'protests' as of late. Just one ongoing riot throughout the country.

Then with all due respect you’re not seeing what’s actually happening, just a selective reading of it.

JohnDB · Aug 28, 2020

98cwitr said:
Reminds me when thousands of gun-toting folks gathered at the Virginia Capital and left the place cleaner than it was when they got there and not a shot fired. But they're the domestic terrorists? No sir, the ones rioting and looting are the terrorists, but the old tactic is to simply project your own sins onto others who aren't guilty of them. Which side is God on?

I forgot about that...
Same thing here was mentioned...the protesters not only cleaned up after themselves but also picked up more trash and left the place spotless....it's not like there's a lot of trash around Nashville to begin with but what there was got cleaned up too....the protesters didn't want to give the Governor any excuse he could imagine up to stop the protest.

JohnDB · Aug 28, 2020

Kentonio said:
Then with all due respect you’re not seeing what’s actually happening, just a selective reading of it.

What we see is the protesters inciting violence and destruction. We don't see any condemnation for any of it coming from them... only excuses that they are justifiably behaving in this fashion.

That's inciting to riot...and a felony...and likely going to jail for a long time after this is over.

RocksInMyHead · Aug 28, 2020

Here's the prosecutor's full filing: Wisconsin prosecutors file multiple charges, including murder, against Antioch resident Kyle Rittenhouse

Also, I'll note that I reviewed some of the video again, and it doesn't look like the second victim (Huber) was actually trying to hit Rittenhouse with his skateboard when he was shot. He was carrying a skateboard and tripped over Rittenhouse's legs so that the skateboard landed on his shoulder. He then tried to grab the gun and disarm him, which was perhaps not a smart decision in terms of self-preservation, but was a perfectly acceptable response to the situation. I think most people would call him brave for doing so.

Kentonio · Aug 28, 2020

JohnDB said:
What we see is the protesters inciting violence and destruction. We don't see any condemnation for any of it coming from them... only excuses that they are justifiably behaving in this fashion.

Absolutely untrue, there have been countless protestors condemning the violence. Perhaps you should stop trying to see a nationwide protest as a single organism.

98cwitr · Aug 28, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
Here's the prosecutor's full filing: Wisconsin prosecutors file multiple charges, including murder, against Antioch resident Kyle Rittenhouse

Also, I'll note that I reviewed some of the video again, and it doesn't look like the second victim (Huber) was actually trying to hit Rittenhouse with his skateboard when he was shot. He was carrying a skateboard and tripped over Rittenhouse's legs so that the skateboard landed on his shoulder. He then tried to grab the gun and disarm him, which was perhaps not a smart decision in terms of self-preservation, but was a perfectly acceptable response to the situation. I think most people would call him brave for doing so.

Are we watching the same video? He raises the skateboard to strike Kyle...it's clear as day.

RocksInMyHead · Aug 28, 2020

98cwitr said:
Are we watching the same video? He raises the skateboard to strike Kyle...it's clear as day.

If you look only a freeze frames, you might get that impression. But the video doesn't reflect that. There are effective ways to use a skateboard as a club. Huber employs absolutely none of them. He raises it only up to his waist, with one hand, and extends it out to break his fall. The trucks are pointed in, towards his own body, and he's holding the upper trucks for minimal mechanical advantage. The only downward force applied is by him falling over. His focus is clearly on the gun, which he's already reaching for with his left hand as he falls.

mark46 · Aug 28, 2020

Pommer said:
Where’re you going to put thousands of people?

???

If we are truly talking about rioters breaking the law and endangering people and property, then the police can figure out where to put those arrested.

hislegacy · Aug 28, 2020

mark46 said:
Armed militia (vigilantees) came to Kenosha to help the police against the protestors and rioters. The police were friendly to them and welcomed their support. The chief said that of course he didn't approve such conduct (his chuckle and wink were obvious).

The militia walked down the streets waving guns. The police made no effort to stop them, even though they were waving guns. One of them killed two people.

We have noted the murder. What we have failed to consider is the complicity of the police in allowing vigilantees to work with them.

One: Since you mentioned it multiple times, certainly you can provide proof of people waving guns around. All the video I have seen shows weapons on slings and at their side until they were attacked.

Two: The 17yr old EMT that fired in self defense after being chased and knocked to the grown came as a medic. We seem to miss that. He can be seen other places helping wounded people.

Three: He was chased and attacked by a crowd AFTER he left the protection of the Police line and they (the Police) would not let him back into the area where the violence was happening. At that point he was chased across parking lots, pelted with bottles, a shot was fired, then he was knocked to the ground and struck with a skateboard.

He fired only after all that.

Of course it is his and the police's fault. Shooting obviously peaceful protesters.

mark46 · Aug 28, 2020

solid_core said:
.

There is. If they are in the process of breaking the law or after that.

Individual citizens do not have this power over others unless they are defending their own interests, as providing by law.

mark46 · Aug 28, 2020

98cwitr said:
Yes, you have a right to defend yourself.

YOURSELF

This is much, much, much different that entering a downtown armed and looking to take power over others,.

GreatLakes4Ever · Aug 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
Really? How do you feel about those individuals that burnt to death in buildings that were razed by rioters?

They should be given an intimate education in how our justice system works. But I am and I believe our country should be better than criminals who harm people without giving due process.

Likewise, if you can justify trying to harm me... I can justify my defense. What right do others have to judge my place of business needs to burn to the ground? My livelihood... how I feed my family?

Doesn’t matter in this instance, Rittenhouse, drove to a different state to protect property that isn’t his because he watched The Dark Knight one too many times and agreed with Harvey Dent’s speech of how Gotham had appointed Batman by their inaction. Sadly he is unable to separate fantasy and reality.

in an overarching situation, I’m not cravenly materialistic to value my inventory enough to start taking human lives to protect it and I legitimately scared of what you can talk yourself into doing to protect your business if killing people isn’t off the table.

mark46 · Aug 28, 2020

The courts will sort this out. The courts will decide whether the person was so threatened that he reasonably killed two people. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, in the US if I am attacked in this situation, I am not necessarily allowed to shoot and kill people.

However, I do not believe that this person should have been there, and shouldn't ahve been welcomed by the police, without authorization from their chief.

hislegacy said:
One: Since you mentioned it multiple times, certainly you can provide proof of people waving guns around. All the video I have seen shows weapons on slings and at their side until they were attacked.

Two: The 17yr old EMT that fired in self defense after being chased and knocked to the grown came as a medic. We seem to miss that. He can be seen other places helping wounded people.

Three: He was chased and attacked by a crowd AFTER he left the protection of the Police line and they (the Police) would not let him back into the area where the violence was happening. At that point he was chased across parking lots, pelted with bottles, a shot was fired, then he was knocked to the ground and struck with a skateboard.

He fired only after all that.

Of course it is his and the police's fault. Shooting obviously peaceful protesters.

RocksInMyHead · Aug 28, 2020

hislegacy said:
Three: He was chased and attacked by a crowd AFTER he left the protection of the Police line and they (the Police) would not let him back into the area where the violence was happening. At that point he was chased across parking lots, pelted with bottles, a shot was fired, then he was knocked to the ground and struck with a skateboard.

He fired only after all that.

This is not accurate. One man (Rosenbaum) chased him and threw something at him. They had a scuffle and he shot Rosenbaum. He then tried to get away, with people chasing after him. He shot at a second person and missed, then the man with the skateboard (Huber) tried to grab his gun - falling on him with the skateboard in the process - and was shot in the heart

Desk trauma · Aug 28, 2020

solid_core said:
I think you can carry guns in public, in the USA.

That varies by state. Where this took place it is but not for the person in question as he was 17 and needed to be eighteen to own or carry that rifle in Wisconsin. He needed to be 21 in his home state. Crossing state lines with the rifle in his possession already had him on the wrong side of the law before he did anything else with it.

LostMarbels · Aug 28, 2020

Kentonio said:
I’ve been called worse.

You have to know I was joking good sir... all in fun.

Kentonio said:
If you have a crowd of thousands of peaceful protestors and then someone throws a rock or breaks a window, do you reasonably expect those thousands of people to all just immediately leave? For one thing most of them will have no idea anything untoward has even happened, and for another having that many people all flooding to escape is likely to result in a really bad outcome. It would also make it much harder for the police to actually identify who is actually causing the trouble in the first place.

Yeah, but that isn't happening now, is it? BLM is supported by ever single major news and social media outlet. They are promoted by state leadership even. This is not some sort of homegrown 'protest'. I feel you are conflating genuine protests with manufactured political upheaval during an election cycle.

Kentonio said:
Then with all due respect you’re not seeing what’s actually happening, just a selective reading of it.

What is happening has no legitimacy. It has no value, message or reasoning in my view. It just needs to be made to stop. And that's it. I have no more patience or tolerance for these people. Get of the streets and quit destroying stuff. That is my sole focus.

JohnDB · Aug 28, 2020

Family says Jacob Blake is handcuffed to his hospital bed; has retained Racine Attorney Patrick Cafferty

LostMarbels · Aug 28, 2020

GreatLakes4Ever said:
They should be given an intimate education in how our justice system works. But I am and I believe our country should be better than criminals who harm people without giving due process.

What does this response have to do concerning people that were trapped in a burning building, and burnt alive?

GreatLakes4Ever said:
in an overarching situation, I’m not cravenly materialistic to value my inventory enough to start taking human lives to protect it and I legitimately scared of what you can talk yourself into doing to protect your business if killing people isn’t off the table.

Sounds like you do not understand what it is to be a franchisee and culpable for losses/shrinkage of someone else's product on your shelves. Or watching your entire livelihood, your bread and butter go up in flames.

mark46 · Aug 28, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
This is not accurate. One man (Rosenbaum) chased him and threw something at him. They had a scuffle and he shot Rosenbaum. He then tried to get away, with people chasing after him. He shot at a second person and missed, then the man with the skateboard (Huber) tried to grab his gun - falling on him with the skateboard in the process - and was shot in the heart

I suspect that many here live in different worlds. For some, it is fine for someone to come to a strange city and "help" police with no authority. This person has the unilateral right to give orders and make rules under which he can use violence. And this world, if someone throws something at you, it is reasonable and legal to shoot to kill.

Others live in a different world, curiously, a world of law and order. Strangely, in this world, even police RARELY engage in such behavior. When they do, they should tried, convicted and sent to prison.

GreatLakes4Ever · Aug 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
What does this response have to do concerning people that were trapped in a burning building, and burnt alive?

The ones who lit the building on fire and caused the deaths should be given due process and receive punishment for their deeds. Vigilante has no place in this country.

Sounds like you do not understand what it is to be a franchisee and culpable for losses/shrinkage of someone else's product on your shelves. Or watching your entire livelihood, your bread and butter go up in flames.

I don’t but if you are willing to kill to protect your bottom line, I fear there is a lot of dangerous stuff you would be willing to do without batting an eye.

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