Created for Works

Mr. M · Aug 27, 2020

HARK! said:
How carefully have you looked at this?

H7453

friend, companion, fellow, another person

friend, intimate

fellow, fellow-citizen, another person (weaker sense)

other, another (reciprocal phrase)

View attachment 283432

H7453 - rea` - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

Careful enough.
2 Chronicles 20:7 Are You not our God, who drove out the inhabitants of this land before
Your people Israel, and gave it to the descendants of Abraham Your friend forever?
Isaiah 41:8. But you, Israel, are My servant,
Jacob whom I have chosen,
The descendants of Abraham My friend.

ahab H157=friend, beloved (better) H157 - 'ahab - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

James 2:23. And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was
accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God.

HARK! · Aug 27, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Careful enough.
2 Chronicles 20:7 Are You not our God, who drove out the inhabitants of this land before
Your people Israel, and gave it to the descendants of Abraham Your friend forever?
Isaiah 41:8. But you, Israel, are My servant,
Jacob whom I have chosen,
The descendants of Abraham My friend.

ahab H157=friend, beloved (better) H157 - 'ahab - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

James 2:23. And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was
accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God.

Let's continue that thought.

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

(CLV) Ja 2:26
For even as the body apart from spirit is dead, thus also faith apart from works is dead.

Mr. M · Aug 27, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's continue that thought.

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

(CLV) Ja 2:26
For even as the body apart from spirit is dead, thus also faith apart from works is dead.

Don't have a problem with that thought. I have always held this belief. I am not a Grace Only
type. The clarification we were seeking was friend vs neighbor. You seem to be missing the significance
of that distinction. A neighbor doesn't know The Lord. Seek and you will find. You respond as if
you are trying to win an argument. Try to get an understanding. What Yeshua taught His disciples is
far apart from what He taught the crowds. I am not speaking in parables here.

HARK! · Aug 27, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Don't have a problem with that thought. I have always held this belief. I am not a Grace Only
type. The clarification we were seeking was friend vs neighbor. You seem to be missing the significance
of that distinction. A neighbor doesn't know The Lord. Seek and you will find. You respond as if
you are trying to win an argument. Try to get an understanding. What Yeshua taught His disciples is
far apart from what He taught the crowds. I am not speaking in parables here.

I didn't mention neighbors. I suppose that you're working off of a faulty translation. That is why I provided the definitions of the word.

Mr. M · Aug 27, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am Yahweh.

HARK! said:
The Torah tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Let us think deeply about that. Yahshua came to magnify the Torah. This doesn't take much magnification if we are sincere in understanding.

Minister Monardo said:
14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing;
but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have
made known to you.

HARK! said:
(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

HARK! said:
H7453 - rea` - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

Minister Monardo said:
ahab H157=friend, beloved (better) H157 - 'ahab - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

This is used for Abraham, the friend of God.
The word you reference [rea'] is used in Leviticus 19:18.
There is a very clear distinction made between neighbor/associate and friend/beloved.
Love your neighbor to keep the Law.
"Love one another as beloved friends, just as I have loved you is 'the greater love'."

HARK! · Aug 27, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
There is a very clear distinction made between neighbor/associate and friend/beloved.
Love your neighbor to keep the Law.

Did you read the Gesenius definition?

Tell me; what is the difference?

H7453 - rea` - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

I see no difference in reference to those who are the Bride of Messiah.

Mr. M · Aug 27, 2020

HARK! said:
Did you read the Gesenius definition?

Tell me; what is the difference?

H7453 - rea` - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

I see no difference in reference to those who are the Bride of Messiah.

I already did in #19.
2 Chronicles 20:7 Are You not our God, who drove out the inhabitants of this land before
Your people Israel, and gave it to the descendants of Abraham Your friend forever?
Isaiah 41:8. But you, Israel, are My servant,
Jacob whom I have chosen,
The descendants of Abraham My friend.

ahab H157=friend, beloved (better) H157 - 'ahab - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

James 2:23. And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was
accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God.

HARK! · Aug 27, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
I already did in #19.

You might want to double check that. Post#19 makes no mention of Leviticus 19:18 nor H7453.

pinacled · Aug 28, 2020

The poor is hated even of his own neighbour: but the rich hath many friends.

21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

22 Do they not err that devise evil? but mercy and truth shall be to them that devise good.

23 In all labour there is profit:

Mr. M · Aug 28, 2020

pinacled said:
The poor is hated even of his own neighbour: but the rich hath many friends.

21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

22 Do they not err that devise evil? but mercy and truth shall be to them that devise good.

23 In all labour there is profit:

Proverbs 18:24.
CLV. There are associates disposed to be evildoers, Yet there is one with love
more loyal than a brother's.
OJV. An ish of many companions may come to ruin, but there is an ohev (friend) that sticketh
closer than a brother.

Mr. M · Aug 28, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Eph 2:10
For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
10 For we are His masterpiece, having been created in Moshiach Yehoshua for ma’asim tovim,
which Hashem prepared beforehand, that the derech of our halakhah should be in them.
[YESHAYAH 29:23; 42:7; 60:21;]

James 2 is sufficient to show that faith without works is dead.
However, in the case of Ephesians 2:10,
the reference is to The Father's working in us.

Romans 8:29. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

HARK! · Aug 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
10 For we are His masterpiece, having been created in Moshiach Yehoshua for ma’asim tovim,
which Hashem prepared beforehand, that the derech of our halakhah should be in them.
[YESHAYAH 29:23; 42:7; 60:21;]

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
10 For we are His masterpiece, having been created in Moshiach Yehoshua for ma’asim tovim,
which Hashem prepared beforehand, that the derech of our halakhah should be in them.
[YESHAYAH 29:23; 42:7; 60:21;]

Should walk in them? Should be in them? What's this? The all pwerful Elohim doesn't make us walk in his Torah? He gives us a choice that we should? You see, it is our choice to let him do his works through us, starting with keeping his perfect Torah. We actually have to do something. This is why he gave us his perfect Torah; that we should keep it.

Minister Monardo said:
James 2 is sufficient to show that faith without works is dead.
However, in the case of Ephesians 2:10,
the reference is to The Father's working in us.

(CLV) Ja 2:18
But someone will be declaring, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from the works and I shall be showing you my faith by my works.

James doesn't say that the father will be showing you the works that the Father is doing in James.

James said that he (James) will show you his (James') works.

It's his choice, just like it is in Ephesians 2:10. Paul isn't contradicting James. Neither of them are contradicting a true understanding of the Torah.

We don't have an evil, impotent, Elohim, who curses us for work that he failed to perform in us. We bring the curses, from choosing not to follow his Torah, on ourselves.

Mr. M · Aug 28, 2020

HARK! said:
We must be obedient participants, in the works that our Father is performing through us, just as he did through Yahshua, to carry out his good works in our walk. Transgressing his Torah, is in rebellion to his word to us.

Yes.
We must be willing participants with Messiah.
John 6:TLV
53 So Yeshua said to them, Amen, amen I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man
and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 For My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink.
56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so the one who eats of Me
will also live because of Me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven—not like the bread your fathers ate and then died.
He who eats this bread will live forever.

Mr. M · Aug 29, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Yes.
We must be willing participants with Messiah.
John 6:TLV
53 So Yeshua said to them, Amen, amen I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man
and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 For My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink.
56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so the one who eats of Me
will also live because of Me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven—not like the bread your fathers ate and then died.
He who eats this bread will live forever.

Partakers of a Divine Calling.
Mark 10:
35 Then Jacob and John, the sons of Zebedee, come up to Him, saying, “Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask of You.”
36 And He said to them, “What do you want Me to do for you?”
37 They said to Him, “Let us sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory.”
38 But Yeshua answered them, "You don’t know what you’re asking! Are you able to drink
the cup I drink, or endure the immersion I must endure?”
39 They said to Him, “We are able.”
And Yeshua said to them, You will drink the cup I drink, and you will endure the immersion
I must endure.
40 But to sit on My right or left is not Mine to grant—it is for those for whom it has been prepared.”

Acts 12:
1 Now at that time Herod the king seized some from Messiah’s community to do them harm.
2 He had Jacob, John’s brother, put to death with the sword.
3 Seeing it pleased the Judean leaders, he proceeded to capture Peter as well.
This was during the Days of Matzah.

John 16:
“I have spoken these things to you so that you may be kept from stumbling.
2 They will throw you out of the synagogues. Yes, an hour is coming when whoever kills you
will think he is offering service to God.
3 They will do these things because they have never known the Father or Me.
4 But I have spoken these things to you so that when their hour comes, you may remember
that I told you of them. I did not tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.”

Under the Law of Moses, the people suffer due to unrighteousness.
Those who walk with Yeshua suffer for Righteousness Sake.
A clear distinction!

HARK! · Aug 29, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Under the Law of Moses, the people suffer due to unrighteousness.
Those who walk with Yeshua suffer for Righteousness Sake.
A clear distinction!

"Under the Law of Moses." The law of Moses is the law that Messiah spent his entire ministry preaching, unto death. It is the law that YHWH gave to Moses for all.

We are under the curses of the Torah, when we disobey the Torah. When we are obedient to the Torah we are baruch.

(CLV) Dt 11:26
See! I am setting before you today blessing and malediction:

(CLV) Dt 11:27
the blessing if you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today,

(CLV) Dt 11:28
and the malediction if you should not hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim, and you withdraw from the way (Yahshua is the way.) that I am enjoining on you today, by going after other elohim whom you have not known.

The distinction that you've presented seems to be akin to Marcionism. There is one Elohim; and he does not change. The berachoth that he outlined for Moses, apply today, as they did on the day that they were revealed.

(CLV) Mal 3:6
For I, Yahweh, do not alter; and you, sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

YHWH is not an evil Elohim who gave us his Torah that we might suffer. It is given for our own good.

(CLV) Dt 6:24
Then Yahweh instructed us to do all these statutes, to fear Yahweh our Elohim for our good all the days so as to keep us alive, as it is this day.

(CLV) Dt 6:25
So it shall come to be righteousness for us when we observe to do all this instruction before Yahweh our Elohim, just as He had enjoined on us.

It is Satan who brings the suffering on those who are obedient to his Torah. The prophets were persecuted for defending YHWH's perfect Torah; just as Yahshua was. This is nothing new. They too suffered for righteousness sake.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

What is sin?

Sin is transgression of YHWH's perfect Torah.

(CLV) 1Ki 19:14
He replied, I have been zealous, yea zealous for Yahweh Elohim of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant; they have demolished Your altars, and they have killed Your prophets with the sword, so that I am left, I by myself alone. And they are seeking for my soul to take it.

Those who walk with Yahshua walk as Yahshua walks. Yahshua walks in the Torah. Those who reject YHWH's Torah will suffer from their unrighteousness, just as those in the days of Moses. Again, nothing new here.

(CLV) Mt 13:41
The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,

Mr. M · Aug 29, 2020

HARK! said:
"Under the Law of Moses." The law of Moses is the law that Messiah spent his entire ministry preaching, unto death. It is the law that YHWH gave to Moses for all.

We are under the curses of the Torah, when we disobey the Torah. When we are obedient to the Torah we are baruch.

(CLV) Dt 11:26
See! I am setting before you today blessing and malediction:

(CLV) Dt 11:27
the blessing if you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today,

(CLV) Dt 11:28
and the malediction if you should not hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim, and you withdraw from the way (Yahshua is the way.) that I am enjoining on you today, by going after other elohim whom you have not known.

The distinction that you've presented seems to be akin to Marcionism. There is one Elohim; and he does not change. The berachoth that he outlined for Moses, apply today, as they did on the day that they were revealed.

(CLV) Mal 3:6
For I, Yahweh, do not alter; and you, sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

YHWH is not an evil Elohim who gave us his Torah that we might suffer. It is given for our own good.

(CLV) Dt 6:24
Then Yahweh instructed us to do all these statutes, to fear Yahweh our Elohim for our good all the days so as to keep us alive, as it is this day.

(CLV) Dt 6:25
So it shall come to be righteousness for us when we observe to do all this instruction before Yahweh our Elohim, just as He had enjoined on us.

It is Satan who brings the suffering on those who are obedient to his Torah. The prophets were persecuted for defending YHWH's perfect Torah; just as Yahshua was. This is nothing new. They too suffered for righteousness sake.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

What is sin?

Sin is transgression of YHWH's perfect Torah.

(CLV) 1Ki 19:14
He replied, I have been zealous, yea zealous for Yahweh Elohim of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant; they have demolished Your altars, and they have killed Your prophets with the sword, so that I am left, I by myself alone. And they are seeking for my soul to take it.

Those who walk with Yahshua walk as Yahshua walks. Yahshua walks in the Torah. Those who reject YHWH's Torah will suffer from their unrighteousness, just as those in the days of Moses. Again, nothing new here.

(CLV) Mt 13:41
The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,

Those who walk with Yeshua suffer for Righteousness Sake.
This is The Father working in us to will and do His Good Pleasure. The Double Blessing.
Matthew 5:
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against
you falsely for My sake.
12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they
persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Peter 4:
1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind,
for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for
the Will of God.

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trials which is to try you, as though some
strange thing happened to you;
13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is
revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.
14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of
God rests upon you.
16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God
in this matter.

If you, as the expert on The Law of Moses, could provide the scripture references for these teachings of the Brit Chadashah, it would bring the two into agreement, would it not?

17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

18 Now If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.

HARK! · Aug 29, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Those who walk with Yeshua suffer for Righteousness Sake.
This is The Father working in us to will and do His Good Pleasure. The Double Blessing.
Matthew 5:
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against
you falsely for My sake.
12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they
persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Peter 4:
1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind,
for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for
the Will of God.

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trials which is to try you, as though some
strange thing happened to you;
13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is
revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.
14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of
God rests upon you.
16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God
in this matter.

If you, as the expert on The Law of Moses, could provide the scripture references for these teachings of the Brit Chadashah, it would bring the two into agreement, would it not?

When did I claim to be an expert on the Torah? I could provide the scripture to support these random, off topic, verses with the TaNaK; but you might do better to read it for yourself. This is not the subject of this thread. That said, whether or not I can provide these references has nothing to do with whether or not all scripture is in agreement. Yahshua and his Apostles said nothing in disagreement with the Torah. If you believe Yahshua and his Apostles disagreed with the Torah; the onus is on you to prove it.

GedaliahMaegil · Aug 29, 2020

HARK! said:
When did I claim to be an expert on the Torah? I could provide the scripture to support these random, off topic, verses with the TaNaK; but you might do better to read it for yourself. This is not the subject of this thread. That said, whether or not I can provide these references has nothing to do with whether or not all scripture is in agreement. Yahshua and his Apostles said nothing in disagreement with the Torah. If you believe Yahshua and his Apostles disagreed with the Torah; the onus is on you to prove it.

I notice he registered as non-MJ guest in this section of the forums. I don't know why he's trying to debate you; that would be against the SOP for this section.

Mr. M · Aug 29, 2020

HARK! said:
I could provide the scripture to support these random, off topic, verses with the TaNaK; but you might do better to read it for yourself.

The teachings of Yeshua, or the apostolic doctrine found in the Brit Chadashah are never random or off topic to the Work of The Father.
This is their very intent and purpose.

HARK! said:
If you believe Yahshua and his Apostles disagreed with the Torah; the onus is on you to prove it.

If I at any time said this, you would have quoted it in your reply. I made no such assertion.
It is your position that keeping the Torah will fulfill The Father's good, acceptable and perfect Will.
The Brit Chadashah places a higher and growing level of expectation as we grow in Grace.
"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required"

Mark 9:35. And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them,
If anyone desires to be first,
he shall be last of all, and servant of all.
This Moses did not command.
He did, however, live it for 40 years in the wilderness.
Yeshua was training His disciples to be Shepherds of His sheep.
I am sure that you are working toward this goal.

Mr. M · Aug 29, 2020

GedaliahMaegil said:
I notice he registered as non-MJ guest in this section of the forums. I don't know why he's trying to debate you; that would be against the SOP for this section.

Is it debating if something you post is being misrepresented? or just seeking clarification.
In sincerity, and in Truth, what have I posted that contradicts sound doctrine?
I welcome your input. I have said nothing against the Torah.
I am aware that this member just recently changed his registration to Messianic.
I have had fellowship with many, many Jewish believers over the past 3 decades.
A Messianic Jew to my understanding is a Jew who trusts that Yeshua haMachiach.
This is the first time I have had the experience of being talked down to by a
gentile just because he calls himself Messianic.
Does that entitle him to dismiss teaching of Yeshua as random and off-topic?
I suppose he can since it is his OP, so I will politely leave.
All blessings.

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