The 4 Beasts & the 4 Horsemen.

vinsight4u said:

2 Thessalonians 2 shows that he sits in the temple, and that links back to Daniel 11:36, which is
as to the same king clear back to verse 21.

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In Dan 11:36 is not mentioned that the king sits in the Temple, so it is no true link. It is rather stated that he despises every god (with one exception - V.38).

In V.22-30 we see all the moves of Antiochus Epiphanes, if V.36 is the same king, it is he.

Timtofly said:

Perhaps John was one of the voices?

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He stands outside the cirlce of elders, who is round the four creatures, and hears something like a voice from their midst - and that is his own voice? Hardly credible.

/nvm

/nvm

/nvm

vinsight4u said:

John is told - come and see.

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"And see" is an addition. The "come" is in principle the same as in V.3,5,7.

According to the UBS NT Graece (4th ed.), the certainty in that place is of category C, i.e. there is "considerable" (though not "very high") degree of doubt. But note that you argue with the lesser plausible variant reading.

vinsight4u said:

One of the four beasts wants him to go to a place and see what is happening there.

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A better translation would be "the first creature". (BTW: "beast" should be avoided, because literally it is a "living" [one] here, and there is quite another Greek word translated as "beast", in Rev 13 etc.).

Compare the phrase "the first seal", which is the same construction and could be translated "one of the seals".

vinsight4u said:

a rider on a horse
white -

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Like a Roman general, when he is sent out to war. A "crown" could be given to a victor, too, so this word denotes here the ornament which stresses he is sent out to win the war. Unlike diadem, the Greek word stephanos is not limited to monarchical emblems.

I don't understand why some English versions say "conquer" when the word used clearly denotes a victory (Rev 6:2 is the only verse it is rendered as "conquer" in the KJV, 24 times "overcome", also "prevail" and "get the victory", one instance each).

Unlike your interpretation, which speaks of wisdom not mentioned in the text, my explanation is backed up by the text.

/nvm

vinsight4u said:

Paul told the timing of when this man of sin will speak as to he is above God, and he made it
at the time of he is in the temple of God.

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Do you speak about the man of sin in 2Ts 2:4, or of the king in Dan 11? Two different themes, unless you can prove the two figures are the same.

Daniel speaks of a king (or more general: a kingdom) in the north, which has a counterpart in the south. Paulus does not speak of a king, he does not mention a counterpart, it is sheer speculation to join both figures. If you read the whole chapter in Daniel, it is clear the northern kingdom is Seleucid (Damaskus is north of Jerusalem), and the southern kingdom is Ptolomaic (because the route to Egypt started southward, Egypt was considered to the in the South). All the acts stated in Dan 11:2-30 (starting with the last ruling kings of Persia) can be found in history books.

vinsight4u said:

Antiochus IV came to power by murder. He cannot fit the prophecy, as the Bible shows murder is anger.

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He did not murder by himself, he won the rulers of Pergamon by "flattery", then marched against his brother Demetrios, who was killed, so there was no battle.

/nvm

vinsight4u said:

Revelation 13:6
a mouth speaking great things ... Daniel 11:36

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I did not deny there are some similarities. I even mentioned a detail in prophecy that had two fulfillments and maybe a third in the future.

Parallels do not prove identity.

Marilyn C said:

Which is -
1,260 days of the final Global Leader. (Rev. 13: 5)
+ 30 = 1,290 temple cleansed. (Dan. 12: 11)
+ 30 + 15 = the Feast of Purim in the month of Adar. (Dan. 12: 12, Esther 9: 18 - 21)

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I don't understand why you take Esther in. In the time of Esther, there was no 1150-day when there was no morning and evening sacrifice (Dan 8:14). But there were three years (two of them leap years). and 10 days, without such sacrifice (as you can read in 1.Macc 1:54,59; 4:52), and with a month reckoned as 30 days, this is 1150 days.

Or do you think the little horn in Dan 8 is not the king in Dan 11?

EDIT: corrected some punctuation

vinsight4u said:

war
no ships of Chittim ran him off
war again
ships of Chittim sent the little horn king fleeing
wars again
no ships of Chittim against him end the war
but he has gained many ships

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The conquer of Egypt by Antiochus Epiphanes was undone because an intervention of the Romans. Where is your problem?

vinsight4u said:

The Bible shows that all judges of the earth/rulers have certain traits.
wisdom and with understanding - a crown

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Let apart the question whether all judges/rulers have that wisdom (did Rehabeam have it? or Hitler? or Trump?): where does the Bible say that a crown is a symbol for wisdom? And how do you come to the conclusion this symbolism is meant in Rev 6?

EDIT:

vinsight4u said:

The four beasts have gone to where there is food.

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Why should heavenly "Living"s go there? Do archangels (or whatever these "living [ones]" are) want earthly food?

Your errors stem from to much trust in the KJV. But no translation is without any faults. Especially not one translated by persons that had no access to koine Greek contemporary to the NT, or other findings of modern history science (archeology, new discovered manuscripts, and so on). I told before several times that "beast" is no good translation in Rev 6, you should take that into consideration.

Marilyn C said:

I mentioned Esther because that was when the feast of Purim started. It was a feast celebrating the national deliverance of Israel. This is a fore runner of the final national deliverance by the Lord when He comes to deliver them as a nation. Israel will then celebrate national deliverance on the 1,335th day.

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Ah. I got the impression you recommended Esther as a means to "calculate all God`s related numbers, months and meaning". But it is only a parallel, and your post was a rather trivial list of dates.

I know about Purim, of course. It is the feast mentioned without name in John 5:1 - at least this is the inference from the time line given by John's mentioning of feasts and other remarks (e.g. John 4:35). That chapter is about a deliverance from blindness - and about the first plans to kill Jesus.

/'nvm

vinsight4u said:

Daniel 12:1 shows that the prophecy that Daniel was reading/shown in the book that he would have to close contained the time of such as never was. This means the great tribulation is within Daniel 11.

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How can you know? "nver was" does not include "and never will be".

vinsight4u said:

2 Thess. 2 refers to a man that will exalt himself above God____ just like in Daniel 11:36.

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Despising all Gods sounds like a sort of atheism, this is not the same as 2Ts 2, which sounds as proclaiming a cult.

vinsight4u said:

What verse in Daniel 11 is the one where you see it as Antiochus IV started to rule?

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Verse 21.

vinsight4u said:

If it's after the time of raising taxes in that land, then it can't be him as that person must gain rule over the land by neither anger nor battle.
The Bible shows that murder is anger, and even God Himself slays people because they provoked
Him to anger.

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As I have already said, Antiochus did not murder his predecessor.

/nvm

/nvm