Was Jesus Actually Perfect?

GenemZ

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Sorry, you are not reading and believing the words of our Lord.

Jesus said:

“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.” (John 5:21).

Listen carefully to what Jesus said. Jesus said as the Father raises up the dead, and quickens (makes alive), even so the Son quickens (makes alive) whom he will. Does the Father need help in raising the dead? No. So this means that Jesus also has the same power. For while Paul raised the dead, Paul himself could not say that he could quicken or make alive the dead in the same way that the Father does. This would imply Paul would be God and he simply was not.

John 2:19 is also unmistakable. Jesus said he would raise up the temple (i.e. His body). Yes, I am aware that Scripture also says that the Father, and the Spirit raised Jesus, too. But Jesus was also included in that act because He said so Himself in John 2:19.

Jesus had power as God during His earthly ministry. To not have power as God means one is not God.
This means Jesus merely suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience.
He took on the form of a servant and made himself of no reputation.



Your imagining things or you are following what Modern Translations say.
Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins. Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29). Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20).



Jesus spoke and did everything the Father commanded Him to do. He did works by the Father and the Spirit. But He also acted of His own divine power, as well. To forgive (absolve) sin is only a divine attribute of God. All sin is ultimately done towards God. No man can take the role of God and forgive their sin in the same way that man forgives another for wrong done against him. Jesus can absolve sin on the behalf of God because He is God. It's an exclusive divine power only God has. Jesus is the only mediator between God the Father and man.

As for your reference about Jesus relying upon the Bible:

Well, there was no such thing as a Bible during the time of Christ's earthly ministry. It was not called that back then. There was the Holy Scriptures in the form of scrolls, etc.; But there was no book as we know it today that said “Holy Bible” on the cover during His earthly ministry.


This the problem you are having. You think I am saying Jesus is not God. What I am saying? Is that The Son of God.. Being God.. Denied Himself of His right to be as God.. and with His second nature (soul) became as a man. A man that was not allowed to resort back to implementing and using His powers of Deity.. until after he finished the work of dying for all men as a man.

Yes, Jesus is doing all things as God because He returned to Heaven. He no longer has to be as a man solely as he needed to make himself be while walking on earth as the Second Adam.

Read again. You will see He had to cease being as God when he entered the Incarnation. Cease in his ability and power to be God until he finished his work on the Cross.


Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled
himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Philippians 2:6-8​

Yes, He is God! I am not saying he is not God. He is all the things you speak of. But, what you are failing to see? Wile he was awaiting to die for our sins, while having to remain as a man? He needed to deny himself of his right to function as God.


Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men.

That is what you are failing to understand. He had to put on hold being as God while being tested by every temptation a man can know and overcoming it as a man, and until he finished his work on the Cross that required he be the perfect man.

grace and peace
 
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This the problem you are having. You think I am saying Jesus is not God. What I am saying? Is that The Son of God.. Being God.. Denied Himself of His right to be as God.. and with His second nature (soul) became as a man. A man that was not allowed to resort back to implementing and using His powers of Deity.. until after he finished the work of dying for all men as a man.

Yes, Jesus is doing all things as God because He returned to Heaven. He no longer has to be as a man solely as he needed to make himself be while walking on earth as the Second Adam.

Read again. You will see He had to cease being as God when he entered the Incarnation. Cease in his ability and power to be God until he finished his work on the Cross.


Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled
himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Philippians 2:6-8​
Right, and your quoting from a corrupt Modern Translation to base your theology here (as I said before). Those who hold to Modern Translations have a slightly ever shifting different theology than those who hold to the King James Bible (Which was the trusted Bible for hundreds of years before the Modern Translations showed up).

Philippians 2:6-8 in the King James says,

6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” (Philippians 2:6-8) (KJV).​

Notice, the real Bible for our English speaking world (the KJV) says, “But made himself of no reputation” instead of the New Age Bible movement bibles that say, “but emptied himself.” The NLT even says that “he gave up his divine privileges”; This is clearly an attack upon the deity of Jesus Christ and His natural ability as being God. Yes, the Word was made flesh, and so the Eternal Word became a man. No doubt about it. But He was also equally God, as well.

The problem with what you are saying that if Superman lost his powers, he is still Superman. One of the reasons GOD is GOD is because He is all powerful. If GOD lost His powers and became a human, He would no longer technically be GOD anymore. But if He simply suppressed them, that would be another matter entirely altogether.

Jesus made himself of no reputation in that He did not boast in His own ability or power as GOD. Jesus did not hover above the ground and say, “Look at my power, do you dare to defy me?” Jesus did not publicly crush people into a little balls by looking at people while he clenched his fists in a crushing motion. If He did that, He would be made Himself of reputation that He was GOD.

Most of your Modern Bibles are taken from two corrupt manuscripts that attack the deity of Jesus Christ, the blood atonement, living holy, and they place the devil's name in places in the Bible to give him the glory instead of God. It's kind of obvious if one were to compare the KJV vs. Modern Translations. But people get caught up in their church, and make friends, and their beliefs become like an old worn in pair of shoes that they do not want to get rid of in favor of what God's Holy Word says.

You said:
Yes, He is God! I am not saying he is not God.

Sorry, that does not compute. Superman is no longer Superman if he does not have his powers anymore. If GOD lost His ability to be all powerful, by definition He would no longer be GOD. So you are believing in a contradiction and do not even realize it.

You said:
He is all the things you speak of. But, what you are failing to see? Wile he was awaiting to die for our sins, while having to remain as a man? He needed to deny himself of his right to function as God.


Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men.


No, Jesus did not deny His function as GOD. He was almost stone several times for His claims in being as GOD. To be GOD means to also function as GOD. You cannot have one without the other.
A cat cannot stop being a cat. The Word was made flesh! That is what the Scriptures say. It does not say the Word lost information or Godhood. Something was ADDED and not lost according to the beginning of the gospel of John.

You said:
That is what you are failing to understand. He had to put on hold being as God while being tested by every temptation a man can know and overcoming it as a man, and until he finished his work on the Cross that required he be the perfect man.

grace and peace

No. Jesus suppressed His Omniscience (To know all things) in order to be like a man. Again, it is impossible for GOD to stop being GOD as a part of His inherent nature or being. Otherwise, He is no longer GOD by definition. I already gave you a list of verses that show that JESUS had power as GOD during His earthly ministry. You need to address those verses I put forth to you.

Colossians 2:9 says,

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

This means Jesus was fully GOD. Modern Translations say fulness of deity. So Jesus was physically and fully GOD in every way. If He was not, then He would not be GOD. Sure, He humbled Himself and made Himself of no reputation by His divine powers, but He did not empty Himself or give up His powers. Such claims is an attack upon the deity of Jesus Christ.
 
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GenemZ

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Your imagining things or you are following what Modern Translations say.

That ploy does not work with me.

My pastor who studied the Greek and Hebrew for over fifty years used to teach first from the King James. Then he would show us how the translators were either correct, or poorly translated. Not all commissioned by the king to translate were even believers. The archaic English wording too often was misleading being anachronistic.

My pastor did not translate it as Emptied. It serves as an interpretative translation only. I quoted that to convey how some have translated it.

This is closer to how we were shown in Church... Philippians 2_6-8


6~~Who {Christ}, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,
He did not think equalities {plural} with God
a gain to be seized {means to violently take}
and held {so that the Father's plan would not be neutralized}.


7~~But He Himself {Christ}
deprived Himself of the proper function of deity
when He had received the 'inner essence'/form of a servant/slave
although He had been born in the outward likeness/image of mankind.

{Note: Outwardly Christ's humanity looked the same . . . inside He was different in that He was not born with an Old Sin Nature and He never created one by sinning}.


8~~In fact, although having been discovered
in outward appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death . . .
that is, the death of the cross.



grace and peace.......
 
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GenemZ

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The problem with what you are saying that if Superman lost his powers, he is still Superman.

No... Jesus simply agreed with the plan of God to remain as Clark Kent all the time.

Remember! Two natures! He volunteered to only be as Clark Kent in his interaction with people. Yet, he always knew all the while who he could be if he chose to. As a faithful son He remained obedient onto death.
 
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That ploy does not work with me.

My pastor who studied the Greek and Hebrew for over fifty years used to teach first from the King James. Then he would show us how the translators were either correct, or poorly translated. Not all commissioned by the king to translate were even believers. The archaic English wording too often was misleading being anachronistic.

My pastor did not translate it as Emptied. It serves as an interpretative translation only. I quoted that to convey how some have translated it.

This is closer to how we were shown in Church... Philippians 2_6-8


6~~Who {Christ}, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,
He did not think equalities {plural} with God
a gain to be seized {means to violently take}
and held {so that the Father's plan would not be neutralized}.


7~~But He Himself {Christ}
deprived Himself of the proper function of deity
when He had received the 'inner essence'/form of a servant/slave
although He had been born in the outward likeness/image of mankind.

{Note: Outwardly Christ's humanity looked the same . . . inside He was different in that He was not born with an Old Sin Nature and He never created one by sinning}.


8~~In fact, although having been discovered
in outward appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death . . .
that is, the death of the cross.



grace and peace.......

I believe we are living in the last days and not many within Christianity can be trusted on their teachings of all doctrines or truths in the Bible. Believers are to be taught by the Spirit and not men ultimately.

“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” (1 Corinthians 2:13).

The OAO (Original Autograph Only) position cannot be defended with the Bible. But believing that God preserved His words for all generations (including this one today), and that His words are pure words is what the Bible plainly teaches. Check out the following thread link to learn more about the chasm of differences of beliefs between those who hold to KJV vs. Modern Translations.

Here are 30 reasons why the KJV is the pure Word of God for today.

Remember, the Bereans were more noble because they search the Scriptures to see whether those things are so or not. Right now, you are simply not addressing all of the verses I put forth to you and you are essentially saying, “Hey, I am gonna follow Pastor.”

But no Pastor is above God's Holy Word (the Bible). He can study Hebrew and Greek all he likes. It does not mean he knows those languages like Paul did or the other earlly apostles. It's a dead language and he is merely guessing as to what those languages say. He also has to choose which line of manuscripts he believes is the Word of God. He most likely is not a believer in the Textus Receptus as the pure line of the Word of God (by what you have said so far). This means he has failed to align his beliefs with God's Word when it comes to properly choosing the right side in the topic of KJV vs. OAO.
 
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GenemZ

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Remember, the Bereans were more noble because they search the Scriptures to see whether those things are so or not. Right now, you are simply not addressing all of the verses I put forth to you and you are essentially saying, “Hey, I am gonna follow Pastor.”

The Greek does not convey that the Bereans searched as to see if they could disprove what Paul taught. It shows that what Paul taught sounded so good to them, that they searched to verify it was truth. Its like checking over and over again your lottery ticket number after hearing its won. The Bereans searched with anticipation of joy.

Right now, you are simply not addressing all of the verses I put forth to you and you are essentially saying, “Hey, I am gonna follow Pastor.”

I can see where you are coming from. I can see why you would say that. Many pastors are not worth trusting much beyond the basics. Very few study diligently to show themselves approved. This pastor studied eight hours a day (and loved it) and taught his congregation six nights a week. Also, taught certain other special classes during the days of the week. That kind of motivation does not come from man. For 50 years he knew and continued to study, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Chaldean where applicable. Not the norm we find these days.

As for myself? After over forty years of proving what he taught, I can safely say I do follow him. He caused me to purchase and read more reference books, and to search Bible college libraries to verify.. verify.... verify! After a few years of that? I decided he was safe to trust. Not that everything he says I agree with. Its just what I can agree with? Hardly anyone has the ability and capacity to address the subjects he covered and taught on a daily basis.

Have you forgotten Ephesians 4:11-12, so soon? Even your KJV says the Lord has given us pastor-teachers.

There is lots to learn that you never knew existed. It could take you a lifetime.
 
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The Greek does not convey that the Bereans searched as to see if they could disprove what Paul taught. It shows that what Paul taught sounded so good to them, that they searched to verify it was truth. Its like checking over and over again your lottery ticket number after hearing its won. The Bereans searched with anticipation of joy.

Do you know Biblical Greek or Biblical Hebrew? How do you truly know your Pastor knows Biblical Greek or Biblical Hebrew? Did he time travel and grow up in Bible times?
Do you think maybe the apostle Paul would correct you and your Pastor in some places?
I think he most certainly would. No offense, but in my humble opinion, I believe it is arrogance to assume that we can truly know a dead language with 100% certainty. There are many things that are lost and we cannot have a 100% certainty of. One either believes God preserved His Word for all generations according to Psalms 12:6-7 (KJV), or one believes they have to know a dead language that truly is not really possible to know.

I can see where you are coming from. I can see why you would say that. Many pastors are not worth trusting much beyond the basics. Very few study diligently to show themselves approved. This pastor studied eight hours a day (and loved it) and taught his congregation six nights a week. Also, taught certain other special classes during the days of the week. That kind of motivation does not come from man. For 50 years he knew and continued to study, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Chaldean where applicable. Not the norm we find these days.

Time is not really the issue here. Your Pastor could study for 100 years these languages and still not understand them because he did not grow up in Bible times to truly understand the nuances of that language. He is only studying hindsight of what others say about those languages and what they mean. He is not getting his understanding directly from the source. He did not get his understanding on these languages when these languages were alive and by him living in that culture during Bible times. So no. I believe your Pastor does not believe the same way I believe because I just simply read and believe my King James Bible, and he is trying to make His own Bible say what he wants it to say based on what the popular theologians say those dead language mean. Not all scholars even agree with each other.

It's real simple here. Is there trustworthy proof for the KJV as being a divine book, or is there evidence to show the Critical Text that most Modern Translations come from are divine in origin? What do I mean by that? Just check out my blogger article here for evidences for the Word of God.

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

Note: Some of these evidences are basic Scientific evidences for the Word of God, and other ones are proof that the KJV is indeed the pure Word of God.

Another problem is that James says that God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith (See: James 2:5). The poor man is not going to be the fat cat scholar. The poor man who is rich in faith is simple. He is like a Peter (who was a fisherman). A simple poor guy will just read the Bible and believe it. To go to some other language is not simple and it is complicated and most can make dead languages say whatever they want it to say and none would be the wiser to check to see if they are right because nobody truly speaks these languages anymore. But with English, you cannot pull the wool over my eyes and trick me. I grew up speaking and reading English all my life and I can look up words in a dictionary that is not biased in most cases to a particular religious set of beliefs.

Now, maybe your Pastor or yourself have an odd distorted understanding on James 2:5. I just read it and believe it plainly. Just like I do with Acts of the Apostles 17:11. No problem in reading these verses. Yet, you or your Pastor appear to want Acts of the Apostles 17:11 to say something else (based on a language that neither of you truly grew up with while that culture and language was still alive to know the nuances of that language).

You said:
As for myself? After over forty years of proving what he taught, I can safely say I do follow him. He caused me to purchase and read more reference books, and to search Bible college libraries to verify.. verify.... verify! After a few years of that? I decided he was safe to trust. Not that everything he says I agree with. Its just what I can agree with? Hardly anyone has the ability and capacity to address the subjects he covered and taught on a daily basis.

Verify in what way? What proof? Theological dictionaries?
Strong's concordance? How do you know they are not biased to their own set of beliefs that they want to be true? Is there evidences that their dictionaries are divine in origin as if they were the very words of God that were divine?

You said:
Have you forgotten Ephesians 4:11-12, so soon? Even your KJV says the Lord has given us pastor-teachers.

I am not against pastors and teachers. But they are were not meant to spoon feed us. In the KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 (Which is twisted like a pretzel in your Modern Translations) tells us to study to shew (show) yourself approved unto GOD. This means we are to study God's Holy Word ourselves to show ourselves approved unto GOD and we are not to be just blindly spoon fed and trust blindly.
 
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The Greek does not convey that the Bereans searched as to see if they could disprove what Paul taught. It shows that what Paul taught sounded so good to them, that they searched to verify it was truth. Its like checking over and over again your lottery ticket number after hearing its won. The Bereans searched with anticipation of joy.



I can see where you are coming from. I can see why you would say that. Many pastors are not worth trusting much beyond the basics. Very few study diligently to show themselves approved. This pastor studied eight hours a day (and loved it) and taught his congregation six nights a week. Also, taught certain other special classes during the days of the week. That kind of motivation does not come from man. For 50 years he knew and continued to study, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Chaldean where applicable. Not the norm we find these days.

As for myself? After over forty years of proving what he taught, I can safely say I do follow him. He caused me to purchase and read more reference books, and to search Bible college libraries to verify.. verify.... verify! After a few years of that? I decided he was safe to trust. Not that everything he says I agree with. Its just what I can agree with? Hardly anyone has the ability and capacity to address the subjects he covered and taught on a daily basis.

Have you forgotten Ephesians 4:11-12, so soon? Even your KJV says the Lord has given us pastor-teachers.

There is lots to learn that you never knew existed. It could take you a lifetime.

You also talked about verifying your Pastor's work, and yet you did not verify the 30 points I provided to prove that the KJV is the pure Word of God for today.

CF Thread - 30 Reasons why the KJV is the divine and pure Word of God

Note: I posted the link again for your convenience to review.
 
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GenemZ

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Do you know Biblical Greek or Biblical Hebrew? How do you truly know your Pastor knows Biblical Greek or Biblical Hebrew? Did he time travel and grow up in Bible times?


When I attended a Bible college years ago my room mate had taped messages given by a professor of ancient languages who once taught at Harvard. At a time Harvard was not embedded with liberalism like we see today. He also served in the Military in WW ll as a translator. At the Bible college he taught classes in Biblical ancient languages.

I listened to a series of messages that revealed phenomenal insight into the Hebrew text in Genesis. One night at church service Professor Stan Ashby was sitting behind me. Before the service began I turned around and told him how much I appreciated his work on the series I had been learning from. He very modestly kept telling me over and over again that he got the foundation for what he taught from the pastor who later I would begin listening to full time. At the time I only heard of R.B. Thieme Jr's name mentioned at times on campus.

Take it for what its worth. God knows that some believers will crave knowing the Scriptures in depth and detail. For those believers God will raise up a few great teachers. If God did not? He would not be God....

I understand where you are coming from.

Many pastors from around the USA would order his messages for their reference material to work from. Just like professor Stan Ashby had done.

If interested? R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

grace and peace........
 
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GenemZ

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You also talked about verifying your Pastor's work, and yet you did not verify the 30 points I provided to prove that the KJV is the pure Word of God for today.

Order a month's worth of messages and find out what you just can not know yet. No money will be asked for.

FYI.... When I had just gotten saved someone handed me a copy of the KJV. I could not read it. It made me feel that it was about some archaic religion that can not pertain to today. Its filled with old fashioned English that no one uses today. If that serves your needs? Be my guest.
 
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When I attended a Bible college years ago my room mate had taped messages given by a professor of ancient languages who once taught at Harvard. At a time Harvard was not embedded with liberalism like we see today. He also served in the Military in WW ll as a translator. At the Bible college he taught classes in Biblical ancient languages.

I listened to a series of messages that revealed phenomenal insight into the Hebrew text in Genesis. One night at church service Professor Stan Ashby was sitting behind me. Before the service began I turned around and told him how much I appreciated his work on the series I had been learning from. He very modestly kept telling me over and over again that he got the foundation for what he taught from the pastor who later I would begin listening to full time. At the time I only heard of R.B. Thieme Jr's name mentioned at times on campus.

Take it for what its worth. God knows that some believers will crave knowing the Scriptures in depth and detail. For those believers God will raise up a few great teachers. If God did not? He would not be God....

I understand where you are coming from.

Many pastors from around the USA would order his messages for their reference material to work from. Just like professor Stan Ashby had done.

If interested? R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

grace and peace........

Harvard is good for learning law, etc.; But if you want to learn God's Word, neither Harvard or a Bible college is the place to do it. I believe Bible colleges brainwash a person to believe that the only way you can understand God's Word is by looking to the original languages only (Which is a lie). People just accept that the guy with the fancy degrees knows what he is talking about (When this is not the case).

“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” (1 Corinthians 2:13).

Again, we do not learn the Bible by going to a school. We learn by comparing spiritual things with spiritual things and we learn by the Holy Ghost. We ask GOD to understand His Word and we do not seek out the wisdom of men who have fancy degrees.
 
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Order a month's worth of messages and find out what you just can not know yet. No money will be asked for.

I don't think you understand me here. I see the OAO position as highly unbiblical. There are differences of beliefs between Christians who hold to the KJV vs. Christians who hold to OAO (Original Autograph Only). I see making the KJV as one's final authority as the most biblical position, while the OAO position is biblical bankrupt and deceptive.

You said:
FYI.... When I had just gotten saved someone handed me a copy of the KJV. I could not read it. It made me feel that it was about some archaic religion that can not pertain to today. Its filled with old fashioned English that no one uses today. If that serves your needs? Be my guest.

It's why GOD says we are to study to show ourselves approved unto GOD. I use Modern Translations but my final word of authority is the KJV. I also do English word studies on archaic or hard to understand words in the KJV. Granted, one could use a Defined King James Bible, but again, it is good to do the study yourself and to show yourself approved unto GOD for ourselves because it is a command (Note: Well, this is true if you believe the KJV; Modern Translations appear to say something else, so you can forget about studying that Bible for yourself).
 
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Harvard is good for learning law, etc.; But if you want to learn God's Word, neither Harvard or a Bible college is the place to do it. I believe Bible colleges brainwash a person to believe that the only way you can understand God's Word is by looking to the original languages only (Which is a lie). People just accept that the guy with the fancy degrees knows what he is talking about (When this is not the case).

“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” (1 Corinthians 2:13).

Professor Ashby did not teach the Bible at Harvard. He taught ancient languages.


Yes... The Holy Spirit teaches you. Teaches you how to think with what God's delegated pastor-teacher teaches his congregation. You keep cutting that spiritual gift out of God's chain of command.

The word "ghost" does not appear in the original languages.

King James commissioned several universities to do the translating. University of Oxford, the University of Cambridge, and Westminster. One school decided to use the word "ghost" to translate for the same Greek word that the other universities translated "Spirit."

If that one school translated John 4:23-24?

This is what you would see today.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in ghost and in truth: for the Father seeketh
such to worship him.

God is a Ghost: and they that worship him must worship him in
ghost and in truth."

Fortunately.. that school was never chosen to translate John.
 
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GenemZ

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Do you know Biblical Greek or Biblical Hebrew? How do you truly know your Pastor knows Biblical Greek or Biblical Hebrew? Did he time travel and grow up in Bible times?

Do you? Did you?
 
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I see...you find the Bible in the original languages to be unbiblical.

No. I find the concept of looking to an ancient language not taught in Scripture. Paul did not look for some other more ancient language to understand God's Word better. In fact, the Scriptures being written in Greek at that time proves that God's Word moved with the times and they did not remain in the Hebrew. But if things are as you say, then the New Testament should not have been translated into a new language, but it should have remained in the more older and better languages (i.e. Hebrew Language). But that is not what happened. God's Word moved with the times because the world language at that time was Greek. God is consistent. He again moved with the times when the world language changed again through history to English.

Scripture talks about making copies of Scripture and it does not teach about how only the original autographs were better and or more superior.
 
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Do you? Did you?

I am not the one claiming to know Biblical Hebrew, and Biblical Greek.
I told you before that I believe the Bible is preserved (carried on) into the English with the King James Bible for our current day.
 
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GenemZ

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I am not the one claiming to know Biblical Hebrew, and Biblical Greek.
I told you before that I believe the Bible is preserved (carried on) into the English with the King James Bible for our current day.

I only use translations for the sake of communicating here.

If I stopped and asked someone directions to get to someplace. And, they spoke King James English? I would not know where to be heading. Its not speaking English to me... and to many others in the same boat. Its old English, not God's language.

The Greek was written to be exact and very hard to misunderstand. Alexander The Great invented Koine Greek to be used to conquer the world. Its very exacting. English is sloppy in comparison unless we use many words to narrow things down. Its why God chose the language to preserve the New Testament with.

Then you are missing a tremendous amount of understanding. What are you afraid of? It costs nothing. Why not order one of the Psalms? Proverbs? Learn how rich in content the Bible can be. You have not been shown what you are missing. Its spiritual warfare.

How many churches offer their lessons for no money? When I began listening I needed to suddenly open reference books and found out that so much is missed.

Look at what is offered... https://rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf

They never mention money when ordering. They only want to know what it is you want to learn about.


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There is no price list for any of our material. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of
God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible
doctrine.




Grace and peace......
 
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I only use translations for the sake of communicating here.

If I stopped and asked someone directions to get to someplace. And, they spoke King James English? I would not know where to be heading. Its not speaking English to me... and to many others in the same boat. Its old English, not God's language.

The Greek was written to be exact and very hard to misunderstand. Alexander The Great invented Koine Greek to be used to conquer the world. Its very exacting. English is sloppy in comparison unless we use many words to narrow things down. Its why God chose the language to preserve the New Testament with.

Then you are missing a tremendous amount of understanding. What are you afraid of? It costs nothing. Why not order one of the Psalms? Proverbs? Learn how rich in content the Bible can be. You have not been shown what you are missing. Its spiritual warfare.

How many churches offer their lessons for no money? When I began listening I needed to suddenly open reference books and found out that so much is missed.

Look at what is offered... https://rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf

They never mention money when ordering. They only want to know what it is you want to learn about.


R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions.
There is no price list for any of our material. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of
God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible
doctrine.




Grace and peace......

If I told you to read the King James Bible out loud you could do it. If someone was preaching from the King James you can understand them in many cases because it is still English and understable by looking up words in older dictionary like a Noah Webster's dictionary. But if I asked you to read Biblical Hebrew, and Biblical Greek, you would not get it. If someone was speaking these languages, you would not get it. A person can say that these words mean this or that, and you would be none the wiser. You cannot do that with the English because words are established in older dictionaries generally without a religous bias. But go ahead and believe what you do. I don't want any part of it. Believing in an inferior corrupted line of manuscipts of the Scriptures that attacks the deity of Christ, the blood atonement, and holy living, and the placing of the devil's name where it does not belong is not my cup of tea.
 
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GenemZ

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If I told you to read the King James Bible out loud you could do it. If someone was preaching from the King James you can understand them in many cases because it is still English and understable by looking up words in older dictionary like a Noah Webster's dictionary.

Well..... For about my first three years of attending church I was taught from the KJV. I sat there reading my translation which uses the vernacular of today. I could not truly understand much of the wording of the King James. And, neither could those teaching from it as as well. I caught so many mistakes of presumption while sitting in the pews, because the King James leaves too much room for subjective interpretation with it anachronisms... having to guess what the archaic English means.

During those early years I actually thought that a good pastor-teacher's job was not to exegete from the Greek and Hebrew. But, to exegete what the King James says.

I do not understand the KJV Only followers. They are missing out on so much understanding and knowledge, and concentrate on the little they think they understand as it being all they ever need to know. Sorry.. I can not begin to agree with you.

But if I asked you to read Biblical Hebrew, and Biblical Greek, you would not get it. If someone was speaking these languages, you would not get it. A person can say that these words mean this or that, and you would be none the wiser. You cannot do that with the English because words are established in older dictionaries generally without a religous bias. But go ahead and believe what you do. I don't want any part of it. Believing in an inferior corrupted line of manuscipts of the Scriptures that attacks the deity of Christ, the blood atonement, and holy living, and the placing of the devil's name where it does not belong is not my cup of tea.

Not all translations "attack" the Deity of Christ. And, the ones you claim do? Pronounce the Deity of Christ in other passages loud and clear. So, you are only expressing a nullified point. Besides... without citing examples? Its just what you believe to be so.

I have nothing against the KJV as a translation to refer to as a source. I do so with certain passages, because with some passages they get the literal meaning correct where other translations do not. And, visa versa.
 
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