Sinners in Their Refusal, Responsibility and Retribution

Victor in Christ said:

Do you think i put sermons on this website without watching and learning from them first?

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Just seems odd that with the time and effort you've spent responding to the posts here you could have easily written a quick explanation of what the video was about and we could have started a little conversation about it.

Victor in Christ said:

No. If you haven't 1 hour in the life that has been given to you, you really need to seriously think what path your walking blindlessly down into.

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If I watch it are you willing to honestly discuss the implications of what he says? Or are you in the camp of what he says is the truth no matter what I would say?

Victor in Christ said:

the summary is in the title of the sermon.

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Not really. I can make guesses from the title:

1. Sinners refuse an unnamed something. Refuse to do what is right, perhaps?
2. Sinners are responsible for something, probably are responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions.
3. Sinners want to exact retribution from other people, and that desire for revenge is itself sinful. Or maybe, other people want to exact retribution from sinners.

#2 is a principle that most readers of this forum could agree on, I think. #1 and #3 are still not well specified. Potentially, we could have an interesting discussion of the balance between justice and vengeance (i.e., responsibility vs retribution) in our interpersonal relationships, if that's what you have in mind.

Are you sure you don't want to provide a summary of your ideas?

PloverWing said:

Not really. I can make guesses from the title:

1. Sinners refuse an unnamed something. Refuse to do what is right, perhaps?
2. Sinners are responsible for something, probably are responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions.
3. Sinners want to exact retribution from other people, and that desire for revenge is itself sinful. Or maybe, other people want to exact retribution from sinners.

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Ah, a little different from my interpretation.
I figured:
1. Sinners refuse God's rules and expectations.
2. Sinners have a responsibility to follow those rules and expectations.
3. Sinners will face divine retribution for refusing to follow them (eternal punishment in hell).

awitch said:

Ah, a little different from my interpretation.
I figured:
1. Sinners refuse God's rules and expectations.
2. Sinners have a responsibility to follow those rules and expectations.
3. Sinners will face divine retribution for refusing to follow them (eternal punishment in hell).

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Alas, you're probably right. I didn't watch the video either, but I was hoping to turn the conversation in a more interesting direction.

PloverWing said:

Alas, you're probably right. I didn't watch the video either, but I was hoping to turn the conversation in a more interesting direction.

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I watched about half but had to give up,

I could hardly understand him.

But it seemed very dry.

When you think that giving a stranger a smile can turn his whole day around.

"Serve the Lord your God with joy."

Victor in Christ said:

the summary is in the title of the sermon.

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I believe the forum moderators want a better summary, like a few sentences. It that not possible for you to do?

Victor in Christ said:

Never read in the bible that giving a stranger a smile will get you into heaven.

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It may help in bringing heaven down to earth.

Victor in Christ said:

Christ's power?....yeah it might, but prayer for that heavenly power is more effective as a believer in our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ [Jehovah Tsidkenu]. Firstly you have to repent of your sins and then Christ's power will desend. The OT prophets and saints of old always sought for Jehovah Tsidkenu through prayer.

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Prayer is a wonderful thing but there are times
when you have to put it aside and go and help a brother or sister who have fallen,
maybe into a dark pit with snakes and scorpions.

Victor in Christ said:

Sinners in Their Refusal, Responsibility and Retribution

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Well I watched the entire sermon part. The Sermon actually starts at 25:10, there are prayers and some hymns prior to the sermon. The text is Isaiah 22:8-25 KJV.

My summary is that he is saying that there comes a point prior to physical death where we are condemned and cannot be saved. If unbelievers don't turn at some point from their sin and turn to God there is a point they no longer can be saved before death. God warns us of our death and punishment bu bringing calamity or killing others thorough natural disasters such as Covid-19.

Here are some specific points:

29:10 - Unbelievers are in denial of God. This implies that we know God exists and are purposefully denying His existence. This is mind reading and false for me and many non believers.

30:50 - Covid-19 was sent by God to warn people about their mortality. He just asserts this and gives no reason why to believe this.

31:20 - Basically says that God kills some people to warn others of their death. He seems to believe unbelievers are walking around not knowing that they will die someday. This seems very immoral by God since he can warn us in other ways without killing people. I thought The Bible was our warning? Isn't the Bible enough?

31:50 - Makes a claim that all unbelievers do is pursue sin. This is erroneous and slanderous. Unbeliever may do sinful things as defined by Christianity but they do not go out of their way to make sure they are sinning as Christians define sin.

33:14 - Says unbelievers are ignoring the Covid-19 warning. My question is how are we supposed to know Covid-19 is a warning from God? Why is God so inept at communicating to humans? He is killing people to make a point yet it is unclear to us it is god doing it. Another immoral act of God.

34:26 - Makes the claim that unbelievers only live for self. Another false statement. As an unbeliever I live for my family and friends as well. I make sacrifices so my family is better off etc. This just proves to unbelievers that Christians do not know what they are talking about.

35:47 - Makes claim that unbelievers ignore the fact the death will lead to hell for the unbeliever. As an unbeliever I am not ignoring this, I have no reason to believe it is a fact. Another lack of communication by God with dire consequences.

36:41 - Starts to talk about peoples refusal of God. How can an unbeliever refuse God if God has ot shown that he exists. Or that the doctrines are true?

40:00 - Humanity uses self effort and refuses to rely on God. Well show me God has done anything and I will reconsider. My wife has a chronic medical condition. The only people I have seen help her in any way were science based medical doctors and technicians that have made her life livable. No signs that God did anything.

41:23 - God sent an invasion into Jerusalem because some Jews turned from God. How is this even moral?

41:31 - God sent calamities to warn people about death and punishment. How is this moral? It has proven not to work. When calamities happen why do we not know that God is warning us, that he is behind us. Why cannot God get this across to us. What good is the bible as a warning tool if He resorts to calamities and killing to get a pint across.

43:06 - Claims we refuse to acknowledge God is our creator. Nope. What evidence am I refusing to believe?

46:00 - People are foremost a sinner. Jeez, God only ever sees us as sinners. He hates who we are because we are sinners. Yet, if we are saved, he sees Jesus works and righteousness. He never loves us as we really are.

59:11 - says no one is repenting because God sent Covid-19. Well maybe if God was clear it is a warning we would repent. Christians disagree on this issue, how is an unbeliever supposed to know?

1:03:02 - Starts a multitude of threats of hell. Whatever, without good evidence it should not be believed. Why do we need threats when the God of the universe could explain it to us so we would understand.

1:05:46 - Makes it clear that we are condemned in our lifetime. That there is a turning point in our lives that if we sin too much we cannot be saved. No deathbed confessions.

1:06:43 - Talks of eternal punishment for finite crimes. Again, without a clear communication from God how is this our responsibility. If I am in hell it is Gods doing not mine. He has purposefully not been clear. If God sends me to hell it will be an immoral act on his part.

These are the things that stood out to me while listening and some short responses. He is describing a God that cannot communicate well and is immoral. I wonder if the original poster wants a conversation or just plop a video ad pray people get saved.

I figured as much. You post a video you want people to watch and invest their time into (over an hour) and when they do and give feedback and summarize it for you, you spend less than 12 minutes reading it before responding with nothing. I will know better next time.

Victor in Christ said:

i'll get a notification if that is what is required. Thanks

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Okay, I hope I wasn't rude

Robban said:

Prayer is a wonderful thing but there are times
when you have to put it aside and go and help a brother or sister who have fallen,
maybe into a dark pit with snakes and scorpions.

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And with the same stroke of the pen will say,

there are times when we just have to get out of the way.

Not be a hinder.

Came to realize I do not understand much at all but it is not my job either.

It is more or less a case of, "Just do it."

As the saying goes,

"If we do His will because it makes sense,
what has it to do with Him?"

We are doing our own will.

Victor in Christ said:

No. If you haven't 1 hour in the life that has been given to you, you really need to seriously think what path your walking blindlessly down into.

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Blindlessly?

Victor in Christ said:

No. If you haven't 1 hour in the life that has been given to you, you really need to seriously think what path your walking blindlessly down into.

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There are some assumptions given here that I think are very questionable.