THE SABBATH TRUTH!

LoveGodsWord · Aug 25, 2020

Bob S said:
Bob S said: ↑
2Cor 3:6-11. However, all you did was to skirt the issue that in those verses it says that the ten commandments are DONE AWAY. That does not mean that they are written on/in our hearts nor does it tell us that the Holy Spirit helps us to observe them. Those verses do tell us that the ten, as Israel's guide, is done away and now the Holy Spirit is now our guide. I believe the reason it is so hard for you to understand is because of your present beliefs are so strong.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was (past tense) glorious,
LGW, what was written and engraven in stones? If I am not wrong twice God engraved the ten commandments on stone, sent them down with Moses to the people. The first ones Moses smashed and the second set was put in the arc and later lost. Paul called the ten the ministration of death and said that ministration WAS (past tense) glorious. Why did Paul use a past tense verb LGW? Where are the covenants mentioned in the verse or in the remainder of the body of the paragraph LGW?

so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
It is obvious that the glory that was shown on Moses face was the reflection of the glorious stones. Paul wrote that that glory was (past tense) to be done away. The NIV explains it this way: so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its (the stones) glory, transitory though it was, Transitory means temporary LGW.

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
The ministration of the Spirit be more glorious that what LGW? More glorious than the face of Moses or more glorious than the engraved stones?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
The ten commandments were the ministry (guide) during Israel's sojourn in the wilderness and then in Canaan. At some point the ministry of the ten commandments were done away and replaced by the ministration of righteousness which was identified in verse 8 as the Holy Spirit.

10 For even that which was made glorious had (past tense) no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
The ministry of the glorious ten commandments had no glory with respect to the ministry of the Holy Spirit. At this point I remind you that not one word has been about covenants. It is only addressing some laws of the old covenant.

11 For if that which is done away was (past tense) glorious, much more that which remaineth is (present tense) glorious.
What does done away mean LGW? Was it Moses' face? How about getting real for once and admitting that Paul was referring to the ten commandments being done away.

In the old covenant the ten commandments were the guide for one nation, Israel, in the new covenant the ten have been done away and replaced with the most glorious Holy Spirit as being the guide for all mankind.

Hey BOB,

2 CORINTHIANS 3 is talking about the OLD and NEW COVENANTS. It is not talking about abolishing God's 10 commandments. It is talking about them being written on the heart by faith that works through LOVE in the Spirit. This is the ministration of the Spirit tied to God's new covenant promise...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

GALATIANS 5:16 walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh

ROMANS 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Faith does not abolish God's law Bob, it establishes it.

ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

.............

Let's look at the detail and the full contexts

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-14
[1], Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, letters of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2], you are our letter written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3], For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.

Note: in [v3] that Paul is stating that the Corinthians here are letters of Christ ministered by Paul and his companions “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone (reference to the 10 commandments) but IN the fleshly tables of the HEART! Pauls reference here is to Gods new covenant promise of JEREMIASH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT that i will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people. So the context here is the ministration (Paul and his companions being the ministers) of the new covenant Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the Corinthians are examples who have been given a new heart to love God and walk in his commandments which is the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Note: in [6] the context are repeated from [v3] that is that Paul and his companions were the MINISTERS of the NEW COVENANT. “NOT OF THE LETTER OF THE LAW BUT OF THE SPIRIT; FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE”. No where here does [v6] teach that God’s 10 commandments are abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 when God’s 10 commandments are broken and the penalty of sin is death *ROMANS 6:21-23; ROMANS 8:13 but it is not able to save us from sin and change our hearts to love and follow God. [v6] continues “FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE” reference to the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

The Jews had the letter of the law but did not have the Spirit of the law. JESUS said to the Jews that “unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven” *MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13. The Scribes and Pharisees had the letter of the law but not the Spirit of the law. They had the outward appearance as to what the law required but not the change of heart that the new covenant promised *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17. “THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE”. They had the letter or outward forms and ceremonies but were not born again *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 by the Spirit to love through a change of heart by the Spirit that brings life. On the OUTSIDE the Scribes and Pharisees appeared righteous to men but inwardly they were breaking God’s law and were full of dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:25-28.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28.

JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise to LOVE and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

This is leading to the NEW COVENANT PROMISE of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 5:42; 1 JOHN 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 4:16; 1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 4:8.

We do not have the LOVE of GOD in us *JOHN 5:42. We need to be BORN OF GOD to LOVE *1 JOHN 4:7 and partake of the NEW COVENANT promise. This is why JESUS teaches in *JOHN 3:3-7 that UNLESS we are made CLEAN from the INSIDE OUT and BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. This is what JESUS is talking about in MATTHEW 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's LAW from the INSIDE OUT.

Whosoever is BORN of GOD to LOVE in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12 does not commit SIN *1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 3:31; MATTHEW 22:36-40. This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospels in the NEW COVENANT we have a SAVIOUR to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

1 JOHN 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the INSIDE OUT. *REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12. Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7.

………….

So whats the conclusion of the matter and where is this leading us?

ECCLESIASTES 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.

God’s LAW (10 commandments) are not abolished they are fulfilled and established in the life of a believer as they believe God’s Word and abide in Christ and walk in God’s Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4.

[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:

Note: It is condemnation and death (sin) that is to be done away with and the letter through the Spirit not God’s law as God’s law is not sin but is Holy, Just and Good * ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 7:11-12 and gives us a knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25

[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

Note: The 10 commandments (the letter) written on stone is the “MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION” that is it condemns sin or the breaking of God’s 10 commandments. It brings a knowledge is sin and condemnation brings the guilt of sin which is death. Through the Spirit of JESUS our sins are forgiven as we have faith in God’s Word *JOHN 3:16-19; 1 JOHN 1:9 and His Spirit through faith in the Word of God *JOHN 6:63 changes our heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12 to love and obedience that leads to righteousness *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:14:16; ROMANS 1:5; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

[10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.

Note: The purpose of God’s law was only to give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20 and to lead us to JESUS *GALATIANS 3:22-25. It could never change us and free us from the power and condemnation of sin. The old covenant Sanctuary laws for remission of sins (burnt offerings and animal sacrifices and blood offerings) pointed to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the new covenant and God’s promise of salvation from sin’s power *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17; JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 3:6-9.

[12], Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13], AND NOT AS MOSES, WHICH PUT A VEIL OVER HIS FACE, THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY LOOK TO THE END OF THAT WHICH IS ABOLISHED:

Note: the veil to be abolished is the “letter of condemnation and sin” which leads to the Spirit of life which is received by faith in God’s Word that leads us to the Spirit of Christ that works in us to love *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12.

[14], BUT THEIR MINDS WERE BLINDED: FOR UNTIL THIS DAY REMAINS THE SAME VEIL NOT TAKEN AWAY IN THE READING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
[15], BUT EVEN TO THIS DAY, WHEN MOSES IS READ, THE VEIL IS ON THEIR HEART.

Note: Following the “letter of the law”(old covenant) only leads to the outward appearance of righteousness condemned by JESUS when talking to the Scribes and Pharisees as highlighted above and in MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13 MATTHEW 23:25-28. We need to be saved from the INSIDE and receive a new heart to love. Outward obedience to God’s law does not save us because sin originates from the heart *MATTHEW 5:17-27.

[16], NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.
[17], NOW THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.
[18], BUT WE ALL, WITH OPEN FACE BEHOLDING AS IN A GLASS THE GLORY OF THE LORD, ARE CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE FROM GLORY TO GLORY, EVEN AS BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD.

The Spirit of the law is JESUS and God’s new covenant promise of salvation from sin and a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; Whosoever is born of God does not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:6-9. Sin is breaking anyone of God’s 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11 or not believing and following Gods’ Word *ROMANS 14:23.

Sorry Bob, no where in those scriptures does it teach God's 10 commandments are abolished. The role of God's 10 commandments is to give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25 and set free to be born again to walk in God's Spirit *ROMANS 3:4; GALATIANS 5:16 and receive God's new covenant promise of love *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gods 10 commandments have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7.

Hope this is helpful

BrotherD · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
Obedience under the old covenant is by works...obedience under the new covenant is by Faith..Romans 16:26

The patriarchs and prophets of old had faith. Hebrews 11 is a witness to that fact. They all obeyed the commandments of God by faith and not of works. The problem many have today is thinking they had a different gospel in the old testament but that is not so.

klutedavid · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, the more faith you have, the more rules you keep. How much faith is enough? Nothing less than the "ten commandments" according to Jesus in the following passages.

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments (1785): ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’” “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:17-27 NIV)

Hello guevaraj.

Did you read the text you quoted above (Mark 10:17-27)?

That rich young man walked away sad because he could not give his wealth away. The rich young man obeyed the commandments but was too wealthy. So how do you reconcile this with the ten commandments?

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

klutedavid said:
Hello guevaraj. Did you read the text you quoted above (Mark 10:17-27)? That rich young man walked away sad because he could not give his wealth away. The rich young man obeyed the commandments but was too wealthy. So how do you reconcile this with the ten commandments?

Brother, he did not fulfill the first commandment: "You shall have no other gods before Me." Jesus asked him for something and he could not do it. This was not a problem for the other disciples of Jesus, who immediately left everything to follow Jesus.

Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. (Matthew 19:27-29 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

BrotherD said:
The patriarchs and prophets of old had faith. Hebrews 11 is a witness to that fact. They all obeyed the commandments of God by faith and not of works. The problem many have today is thinking they had a different gospel in the old testament but that is not so.

The law given under the old covenant in Sinai (430 yrs) after Abraham was Not based on Faith But works (man's works). Go back and read how the old covenant in Sinai was established Exodus 19 between God and Israel just before the 10 commandments was given...Under the old covenant the people will DO Everything God said...
Moses spoke to Israel regarding the covenant God made with them who are alive But Not made with their fathers. This indicates the covenant in Sinai was only between God and those who came out of Egypt..Deuteronomy 5:2,3..." The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. It was Not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with US, with All of us who are alive here today..."

But the covenant of Promise spoken to Abraham and his descendants Genesis 12, Genesis 15 sealed by the blood of the seed of Abraham (Christ ) in NT is that GOD will Do Everything He promised...

Scripture said regarding Abraham, that Abraham believed God and his faith was credited as Righteousness..he believed God will fulfill All that He promises.Romans 4:21...

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, I am remembering this other passage when I speak of the "surpassing glory" of the new covenant over the old ten commandments "engraved in letters on stone". "surpassing" means more than not less than the ten commandments.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So what is the surpassing glory have to do with the rich man again??

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
So what is the surpassing glory have to do with the rich man again??

Brother, you asked what was missing? If he already kept the ten commandments. I responded with he lacked the "surpassing glory" of the new covenant expansion of the former glory of the ten commandments. "surpassing" means more than not less than the ten commandments.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)

"Murder" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "anger" is sin.

You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. (Mathew 5:21-22 NIV)

"Adultery" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "looking at a woman lustfully" is sin.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. (Mathew 5:27-30 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
GOD will Do Everything He promised...

Brother, what has God said He will do with the workers of "lawlessness"? In case it is not clear, those who practice and teach: do not obey the ten commandments.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, you asked what was missing? If he already kept the ten commandments. I responded with he lacked the "surpassing glory" of the new covenant expansion of the former glory of the ten commandments. "surpassing" means more than not less than the ten commandments.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)

"Murder" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "anger" is sin.

You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. (Mathew 5:21-22 NIV)

"Adultery" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "looking at a woman lustfully" is sin.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. (Mathew 5:27-30 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

If you're saying the rich man is missing the surpassing glory etc, then he is still follow the ministry engraved in stone (10 commandments ) Not the ministry of the Spirit Jesus is preaching...

What i think the rich man is missing is God's Love...he loves his wealth (material wealth) more then God or others...as it says "Anyone who loves the world and anything in the world, The love of the Father is Not in them"...

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, what has God said He will do with the workers of "lawlessness"? In case it is not clear, those who practice and teach: do not obey the ten commandments.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Faith is Not lawlessness...But those who rely on the Law for justification are still practice iniquity..

klutedavid · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, he did not fulfill the first commandment: "You shall have no other gods before Me." Jesus asked him for something and he could not do it. This was not a problem for the other disciples of Jesus, who immediately left everything to follow Jesus.

Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. (Matthew 19:27-29 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You did not read the text (Mark 10:17-27).

The rich young man said that he had obeyed the commandments.

“all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

You need to address the text itself. The ten commandments were not the issue; it was the fact that the young man could not forfeit his wealth. The text does not mention your interpretation, "he did not fulfill the first commandment".

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
Faith is Not lawlessness...But those who rely on the Law for justification are still practice iniquity..

Brother, the law does not justify us, but obeying the commandments of Jesus shows our love and faith that God uses to justify us. You have embraced "the error of the lawless" (2 Peter 3:17). Even demons believe in God and tremble with fear. Considered righteous is a person by "what they do" and not by faith alone.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. (James 2:18-24 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

klutedavid said:
You did not read the text (Mark 10:17-27). The rich young man said that he had obeyed the commandments. “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” You need to address the text itself. The ten commandments were not the issue; it was the fact that the young man could not forfeit his wealth. The text does not mention your interpretation, "he did not fulfill the first commandment".

Brother, it was to help him recognize who was speaking to him that Jesus said: "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good—except God alone.'" He kept the ten commandments in the past, but when Jesus asked him for something, he put his wealth above God, who asked him to give his wealth to the poor and follow me.

You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

klutedavid · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, it was to help him recognize who was speaking to him that Jesus said: "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good—except God alone.'" He kept the ten commandments in the past, but when Jesus asked him for something, he put his wealth above God, who asked him to give his wealth to the poor and follow me.

You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You persist in your interpretation of the text (Mark 10:17-21). Regardless of what the text actually states.

Mark 10:21
Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

The text says nothing about the young man breaking a commandment. Jesus said, "One thing you lack", Jesus did not say anything about breaking a commandment as you say.

guevaraj · Aug 26, 2020

pasifika said:
What i think the rich man is missing is God's Love...he loves his wealth (material wealth) more then God or others... as it says "Anyone who loves the world and anything in the world, The love of the Father is Not in them"...

Brother, you have a broader understanding of the first commandment. To help him recognize who was speaking to him, Jesus said: "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good—except God alone.'" The reason difficult is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God is because of the first commandment. He kept the ten commandments in the past, but when Jesus asked him for something, he put his wealth above God, who asked him to give his wealth to the poor and follow me.

You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3 NIV)

pasifika said:
If you're saying the rich man is missing the surpassing glory etc, then he is still follow the ministry engraved in stone (10 commandments ) Not the ministry of the Spirit Jesus is preaching...

As I have already said, you have embraced "the error of the lawless" (2 Peter 3:17). Jesus expects us to obey the ten commandments He gave us before the incarnation, writing them with His own finger. So that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory.

If you love Me, keep My commandments. (John 14:15 NKJV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj · Aug 26, 2020

klutedavid said:
You persist in your interpretation of the text (Mark 10:17-21). Regardless of what the text actually states. Mark 10:21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” The text says nothing about the young man breaking a commandment. Jesus said, "One thing you lack", Jesus did not say anything about breaking a commandment as you say.

Brother, I'm not making it up, it's in the context of the passage. The only reason that the rich man cannot enter the kingdom of God is because he disobeys one of the ten commandments, remember below that they are the ministry that brought death.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Bob S · Aug 26, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hey BOB,

HEBREWS 8:10-12 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Define "my laws" LGW. God gave Israel 613 laws, the laws Jesus kept. Jesus gave all mankind two laws Jn 15: 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1Jn 3: 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Faith does not abolish God's law Bob, it establishes it.

Is Jesus God? Jesus kept the old law and asks us to keep the new, Jn15:10

ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Do we void the new laws Jesus gave us Jn 15:10?? No absolutely not. Did Jesus ask us to keep the laws He Kept? Absolutely not.
.............

Let's look at the detail and the full contexts

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-14
[1], Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, letters of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2], you are our letter written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3], For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.

Note: in [v3] that Paul is stating that the Corinthians here are letters of Christ ministered by Paul and his companions “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone (reference to the 10 commandments) but IN the fleshly tables of the HEART! Pauls reference here is to Gods new covenant promise of JEREMIASH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT that i will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people. So the context here is the ministration (Paul and his companions being the ministers) of the new covenant Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the Corinthians are examples who have been given a new heart to love God and walk in his commandments which is the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

What are "my laws"? Jesus said His laws are believing in Him and loving others as He loves us. Pick and choose from the old covenant what you think you have to, I will choose to go with Jesus and the new covenant. Amen!

[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Yes, not of the defunct old covenant laws, but of the guidance of the Holy Spirit that gives life. Thank you Jesus!

Note: in [6] the context are repeated from [v3] that is that Paul and his companions were the MINISTERS of the NEW COVENANT. “NOT OF THE LETTER OF THE LAW BUT OF THE SPIRIT; FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE”. No where here does [v6] teach that God’s 10 commandments are abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 when God’s 10 commandments are broken and the penalty of sin is death *ROMANS 6:21-23; ROMANS 8:13 but it is not able to save us from sin and change our hearts to love and follow God. [v6] continues “FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE” reference to the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

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6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant – not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

I will take the privilege to paraphrase verse six. Jesus has made us, you and me, competent ministers of the new covenant, not the ten commandments, but the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, for the ten commandments kill, the Holy Spirit gives eternal life.

Right, verse six doesn't address the abolishing of the ten. It was not meant to do that. Verses 7-11 are a different story. The contents which you completely misconstrue.

The Jews had the letter of the law but did not have the Spirit of the law. JESUS said to the Jews that “unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven” *MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13. The Scribes and Pharisees had the letter of the law but not the Spirit of the law. They had the outward appearance as to what the law required but not the change of heart that the new covenant promised *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17. “THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE”. They had the letter or outward forms and ceremonies but were not born again *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 by the Spirit to love through a change of heart by the Spirit that brings life. On the OUTSIDE the Scribes and Pharisees appeared righteous to men but inwardly they were breaking God’s law and were full of dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:25-28.

Might I remind you that the purpose of the laws of the Sinai covenant were not supposed to be for people's salvation. They were the rules they were to live by. Ex 19:5-6. Salvation didn't come by observance of any law. Even the least of the laws like not shaving sideburns was a sin if one chose to cut them. Not cutting them couldn't save them. Sabbath keeping, even if kept perfectly, could not save anyone, but it was a sin if one didn't keep it perfectly. The covenant expectation was perfect obedience. If Israel couldn't or didn't do that then the stipulation in the covenant was that it would be voided. Moses described Abraham as a man of faith, that faith was his salvation. Israelites knew from Moses that their salvation came by faith and not of their works of the law.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32

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Jesus came to save lost mankind. The law required the shedding of blood for the remission of sins. Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the Earth.

The laws Jesus magnified were laws from the ten and the laws that God dictated to Moses. You just shot yourself in the foot LGW. You claim the "law" is the ten commandments and Jesus differs with your theory. Read the laws Jesus magnified.

JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise to LOVE and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

As I just wrote Jesus changed laws from the book of the law too. Yet you limit law breaking to just the ten. That is a misnomer and completely a false statement. Nowhere in the new Testament does it tell us that the commandments mentioned are the ten commandments yet you keep on refusing to admit it and continue to try to misinform us.

[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:

Note: It is condemnation and death (sin) that is to be done away with and the letter through the Spirit not God’s law as God’s law is not sin but is Holy, Just and Good

That my friend is not what the verse is saying. It says that the ten were glorious and the glorious ten were to be done away.

[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

Note: The 10 commandments (the letter) written on stone is the “MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION” that is it condemns sin or the breaking of God’s 10 commandments. It ~~brings~~ BROUGHT (my correction) a knowledge is sin and condemnation brings the guilt of sin which is death. Through the Spirit of JESUS our sins are forgiven as we have faith in God’s Word *JOHN 3:16-19; 1 JOHN 1:9 and His Spirit through faith in the Word of God *JOHN 6:63 changes our heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12 to love and obedience that leads to righteousness *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:14:16; ROMANS 1:5; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

I corrected your thought because Paul in Gal 3: 24 Wherefore the law was (past tense) our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we (meaning Israelites, Gentiles never were) are no longer under a schoolmaster. We Israelites are no longer under the ten commandments or any other law of the old covenant. We are under the law of love administered by Jesus and beginning at Calvary.

[10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.

When the Holy Spirit was gifted to us a Pentecost it became the glorious gift and the previous ten commandment glorious gift was DONE AWAY. The gift of the Holy Spirit gives life and is given to all mankind. The gift of the ten commandments became the ministry of death.

Note: The purpose of God’s law was

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Correct was is past tense. You got that right.

only to give us Israel (my correction) a knowledge of what sin is was. *ROMANS 3:20 and to lead us to JESUS *GALATIANS 3:22-25.

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I corrected your statement to make it true.

It could never change us (Israel) and free us (Israel) from the power and condemnation of sin. The old covenant Sanctuary laws for remission of sins (burnt offerings and animal sacrifices and blood offerings) pointed to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the new covenant and God’s promise of salvation from sin’s power *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17; JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 3:6-9.

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Couple more corrections.

Sorry Bob, no where in those scriptures does it teach God's 10 commandments are abolished. The role of God's 10 commandments is to give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25 and set free to be born again to walk in God's Spirit *ROMANS 3:4; GALATIANS 5:16 and receive God's new covenant promise of love *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gods 10 commandments have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7.

Hope this is helpful

No LGW, it was not helpful in the least. It is full of errors, errors you have to make to jive with your preconceived beliefs. What was glorious to the Israelites is no longer. What was glorious has been replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Yes Paul IS writing about the ten commandments in verses 6-11. You can deny and try to tell us differently, but we know better.

BiffBuffering · Aug 26, 2020

Why would Christ go about teaching how to better keep the ten commandments (Sabbath, murder, adultery) if He knew they were going to be done away with? Utterly ridiculous.

If the ten commandments hung on the two great commandments and fell off, the entire Old Testament would've fallen with them. Which would, in turn, include the two great commandments because that's where Christ got them from in the first place.

This kind of thinking is why we have theistic evolution now. Part of the Bible goes and eventually, we end up with godless philosophy.

pasifika · Aug 26, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, you have a broader understanding of the first commandment. To help him recognize who was speaking to him, Jesus said: "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good—except God alone.'" The reason difficult is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God is because of the first commandment. He kept the ten commandments in the past, but when Jesus asked him for something, he put his wealth above God, who asked him to give his wealth to the poor and follow me.

You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3 NIV)

As I have already said, you have embraced "the error of the lawless" (2 Peter 3:17). Jesus expects us to obey the ten commandments He gave us before the incarnation, writing them with His own finger. So that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory.

If you love Me, keep My commandments. (John 14:15 NKJV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So what makes you think the rich man used to keep the 10 commandments and what makes you think the one thing he's still missing is the first commandment?

Can you show me where did Jesus said in John 14 to keep the 10commandment?

guevaraj · Aug 26, 2020

BiffBuffering said:
Why would Christ go about teaching how to better keep the ten commandments (Sabbath, murder, adultery) if He knew they were going to be done away with? Utterly ridiculous.

Brother, that's not the proper translation given the context, it is out shined in its "glory" by the "surpassing glory" of the new covenant expansion of the previous "glory" of the ten commandments. The ten commandments are not replaced but "surpassed", Jesus only made them more demanding so that our righteousness "surpasses" that of our predecessors.

If for that which is fading away [was] through glory, much more [is] that remaining in glory! (2 Corinthians 3:11 interlinear)

pasifika said:
Can you show me where did Jesus said in John 14 to keep the 10commandment?

The same word is used in both passages below. Jesus in the first passage tells us that they are the ten commandments that the Jew said he "kept since I was a boy".

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments (1785): ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’” “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:17-27 NIV)

The word clarified above by Jesus as the ten commandments is the same word below.

If you love Me, keep My commandments (1785). (John 14:15 NKJV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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