THE SABBATH TRUTH!

LoveGodsWord · Aug 25, 2020

klutedavid said:
Your saying that not coveting your neighbors oxen, is actually divine love in action. I find that hard to believe.

My neighbors buys a new shiny spade and starts to dig a hole. I think to myself, now I want that new spade. But resisting that desire for the spade is really God's eternal love, being directed towards my neighbor.

There is a serious problem with the way you understand God's love.

Indeed. Coveting is the root cause of breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *ROMANS 7:7

God's 10th commandment *EXODUS 20:17 is about desiring anything of our neighbors that is forbidden, lust.

G1939: ἐπιθυμίαdesire, passionate longing, lust

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1939: ἐπιθυμία ἐπιθυμία, ἐπιθυμίας, ἡ (ἐπιθυμέω) (from Herodotus on), the Sept. chiefly for תַּאֲוָה, אַוָּה, חֲמוּד; desire, craving, longing: Luke 22:15 (on which sevin ἐπιθυμέω, at the end); Revelation 18:14; τήν ἐπιθυμίαν ἔχειν εἰς τί, the desire directed toward, Philippians 1:23; ἐν πολλή ἐπιθυμία with great desire, 1 Thessalonians 2:17; plural αἱ περί τά λοιπά ἐπιθυμίαι, Mark 4:19 (Winers Grammar, § 30, 3 N. 5); specifically, desire for what is forbidden, lust (Vulg.concupiscentia): Romans 7:7; James 1:14; 2 Peter 1:4; πάθος ἐπιθυμίας, 1 Thessalonians 4:5; ἐπιθυμία κακῇ, Colossians 3:5 (Proverbs 21:26; (Proverbs 12:12); Plato, legg. 9, p. 854 a.; πονηρά, Xenophon, mem. 1, 2, 64; ἀγαθή, Sir. 14:14 where see Fritzsche (who cites also Proverbs 11:23; Proverbs 13:12)); plural, Galatians 5:24; 1 Timothy 6:9; 2 Timothy 2:22; 2 Timothy 4:3; 1 Peter 1:14; 1 Peter 4:2; with a genitive of the object, ἐπιθυμία μιασμοῦ, for unclean contact, 2 Peter 2:10 (others with Winer's Grammar, § 34, 3 b. take μιασμοῦ as the genitive of quality); with a genitive of the subject, αἱ ἐπιθυμίαι τῶν καρδιῶν, Romans 1:24; with a genitive of the thing by which the desire is excited, ἡ ἐπιθυμία τοῦ κόσμου, 1 John 2:17; τοῦ σώματος, Romans 6:12; τῆς ἀπάτης (see ἀπάτη), Ephesians 4:22; τῆς σαρκός, τῶν ὀφθαλμῶν, 1 John 2:16 (cf. Huther ad loc.); 2 Peter 2:18; τέλειν σαρκός, Galatians 5:16; αἱ σαρκικαι ἐπιθυμίαι, 1 Peter 2:11 (ψυχικαί, σωματικαί, 4 Macc. 1:32); αἱ κοσμικαι ἐπιθυμίαι, Titus 2:12; εἰς ἐπιθυμίας to arouse lusts, Romans 13:14; ποιεῖν τάς ἐπιθυμίας, John 8:44; ὑπακούειν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις, Romans 6:12 (L T Tr WH); δουλεύειν ἐπιθυμίαις (see δουλεύω, 2 b.), Titus 3:3; ἄγεσθαι ἐπιθυμίαις, 2 Timothy 3:6; πορεύεσθαι ἐν ἐπιθυμίαις, 1 Peter 4:3; πορεύεσθαι κατά τάς ἐπιθυμίας, Jude 1:16, 18; 2 Peter 3:3; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις τῆς σαρκός, Ephesians 2:3. (Synonym: cf. πάθος, and see Trench, § lxxxvii.)

Hope this helps

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
No need I have read it starting from v1. Do you know what Hebrews 4:1-5 is talking about and what God's rest is?

Hebrews 4 in entirety is about God's rest (7th day ) and God's people rest ( "Today")..
So are you God or are you His people?

LoveGodsWord · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
Hebrews 4 in entirety is about God's rest (7th day ) and God's people rest ( "Today")..
So are you God or are you His people?

Yep! No one enters into God's 7th day Sabbath if they do not believe and follow Gods' Word (Gospel). - Now read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 together.

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Yep! No one enters into God's 7th day Sabbath if they do not believe and follow Gods' Word (Gospel). - Now read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 together.

You didn't answer the question. Are you God or you are His people? If you know who you are you know what day you enter in to God's rest..
I will share Hebrew 3 after you answer the question..

Bob S · Aug 25, 2020

Bob S said: ↑
2Cor 3:6-11. However, all you did was to skirt the issue that in those verses it says that the ten commandments are DONE AWAY. That does not mean that they are written on/in our hearts nor does it tell us that the Holy Spirit helps us to observe them. Those verses do tell us that the ten, as Israel's guide, is done away and now the Holy Spirit is now our guide. I believe the reason it is so hard for you to understand is because of your present beliefs are so strong.

LoveGodsWord said:
No it doesn't Bob. 2 CORINTIANS 3:6-11 says no where that the 10 commandments are done away.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was (past tense) glorious,
LGW, what was written and engraven in stones? If I am not wrong twice God engraved the ten commandments on stone, sent them down with Moses to the people. The first ones Moses smashed and the second set was put in the arc and later lost. Paul called the ten the ministration of death and said that ministration WAS (past tense) glorious. Why did Paul use a past tense verb LGW? Where are the covenants mentioned in the verse or in the remainder of the body of the paragraph LGW?

so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
It is obvious that the glory that was shown on Moses face was the reflection of the glorious stones. Paul wrote that that glory was (past tense) to be done away. The NIV explains it this way: so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its (the stones) glory, transitory though it was, Transitory means temporary LGW.

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
The ministration of the Spirit be more glorious that what LGW? More glorious than the face of Moses or more glorious than the engraved stones?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
The ten commandments were the ministry (guide) during Israel's sojourn in the wilderness and then in Canaan. At some point the ministry of the ten commandments were done away and replaced by the ministration of righteousness which was identified in verse 8 as the Holy Spirit.

10 For even that which was made glorious had (past tense) no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
The ministry of the glorious ten commandments had no glory with respect to the ministry of the Holy Spirit. At this point I remind you that not one word has been about covenants. It is only addressing some laws of the old covenant.

11 For if that which is done away was (past tense) glorious, much more that which remaineth is (present tense) glorious.
What does done away mean LGW? Was it Moses' face? How about getting real for once and admitting that Paul was referring to the ten commandments being done away.

In the old covenant the ten commandments were the guide for one nation, Israel, in the new covenant the ten have been done away and replaced with the most glorious Holy Spirit as being the guide for all mankind.

Bob S · Aug 25, 2020

Concerning Heb 4 the rest the writer of Heb was referring was our rest in Christ. If that were not so then the writer was preaching to the choir. The Jews were already observing the Sabbath. They didn't need to be told anything about Sabbath observance. The content of Heb 4 is telling us that the Jews had never entered the rest God had for them. Since they were strict Sabbath believers that rest certainly was not about the Seventh day rest, it had to do with something much greater than not doing anything on Saturday. Jesus tells us to come unto Him to find rest. Our rest is in Jesus Christ not a command that ended at Calvary along with the remainder of the old covenant laws.

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
If you know who you are you know what day you enter in to God's rest..

Bob S said:
The Jews were already observing the Sabbath. They didn't need to be told anything about Sabbath observance. The content of Heb 4 is telling us that the Jews had never entered the rest God had for them. Since they were strict Sabbath believers that rest certainly was not about the Seventh day rest, it had to do with something much greater than not doing anything on Saturday. Jesus tells us to come unto Him to find rest.

Brothers, those who will enter God’s rest from sin will do so through obedience, not disobedience. The rest we remember each weekly Sabbath in memory of our first creation gives us certainty of God completing our second creation, which takes place when Jesus returns. When Jesus returns, we are “changed”, “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet” we will be “changed”. Not given is this change to those who disobey, such as those who died before entering the promised land, God having “declared on oath in my anger” that they will never enter His rest, due to their disobedience. Today, unlike those who died in the desert, show obedience to enter the full measure of God's rest completed when Jesus returns. Just as they lost that rest because of their disobedience, you too can lose that rest because of your disobedience.

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Bob S · Aug 25, 2020

There is no such thing as the Sabbath in the new covenant Jorge. No Sabbath no sin.

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

Bob S said:
There is no such thing as the Sabbath in the new covenant Jorge. No Sabbath no sin.

Brother, I prefer to let the word of God speak for itself, instead of inventing my way because it feels good to spend Sunday with "lawbreakers". You are not ready for what is coming when looking to feel good. It certainly didn't feel good for Jesus to save me and I don't expect to feel good following Him on this side of the earth made new.

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. (James 2:8-11 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Bob S · Aug 25, 2020

The Sinai covenant with its 613 commands ended at Calvary, you claim we have to keep the WHOLE LAW, 613. That would mean that all of the 613 laws that pertain to the layman must be kept. How many of them do your keep Jorge?

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

Bob S said:
The Sinai covenant with its 613 commands ended at Calvary, you claim we have to keep the WHOLE LAW, 613. That would mean that all of the 613 laws that pertain to the layman must be kept. How many of them do your keep Jorge?

Brother, the more faith you have, the more rules you keep. How much faith is enough? Nothing less than the "ten commandments" according to Jesus in the following passages.

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments (1785): ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’” “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:17-27 NIV)

These two requirements expanded above are repeated below in the last book of the Bible.

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commandments (1785) and remain faithful to Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brothers, those who will enter God’s rest from sin will do so through obedience, not disobedience. The rest we remember each weekly Sabbath in memory of our first creation gives us certainty of God completing our second creation, which takes place when Jesus returns. When Jesus returns, we are “changed”, “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet” we will be “changed”. Not given is this change to those who disobey, such as those who died before entering the promised land, God having “declared on oath in my anger” that they will never enter His rest, due to their disobedience. Today, unlike those who died in the desert, show obedience to enter the full measure of God's rest completed when Jesus returns. Just as they lost that rest because of their disobedience, you too can lose that rest because of your disobedience.

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Obedience under the old covenant is by works...obedience under the new covenant is by Faith..Romans 16:26

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, the more faith you have, the more rules you keep. How much faith is enough? Nothing less than the "ten commandments" according to Jesus in the following passages.

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments (1785): ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’” “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:17-27 NIV)

These two requirements expanded above are repeated below in the last book of the Bible.

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commandments (1785) and remain faithful to Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So, the question is...if the man kept the commandments in the 10 commandments according to his own admission (Mark 10:17-27) why then Jesus said he's still lack one thing?
What was that one thing he's lack of?

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
Obedience under the old covenant is by works...obedience under the new covenant is by Faith..Romans 16:26

Brother, you contradict the Bible, it has always been about "faith" demonstrated through obedience.

By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. (Hebrews 11:8 NIV)

From this humble beginning we are all blessed.

By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, (Hebrews 11:17 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
So, the question is...if the man kept the commandments in the 10 commandments according to his own admission (Mark 10:17-27) why then Jesus said he's still lack one thing?
What was that one thing he's lack of?

Brother, he lacked the surpassing glory of the new covenant expansion of the former glory of the ten commandments. The fact is, that Jesus made it easier to deal with sin, so He has increased His demands on us, wanting our righteousness to surpass that of our predecessors. "Murder" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "anger" is sin.

You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. (Mathew 5:21-22 NIV)

"Adultery" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "looking at a woman lustfully" is sin.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. (Mathew 5:27-30 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, you contradict the Bible, it has always been about "faith" demonstrated through obedience.

By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. (Hebrews 11:8 NIV)

From this humble beginning we are all blessed.

By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, (Hebrews 11:17 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The law is Not based on Faith..Galatians 3:12

pasifika · Aug 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, he lacked the surpassing glory of the new covenant expansion of the former glory of the ten commandments. The fact is, that Jesus made it easier to deal with sin, so He has increased His demands on us, wanting our righteousness to surpass that of our predecessors. "Murder" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "anger" is sin.

You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. (Mathew 5:21-22 NIV)

"Adultery" is no longer the only sin in this category, now even "looking at a woman lustfully" is sin.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. (Mathew 5:27-30 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So the man in Mark 10:17-27 lack the surpassing glory of the new covenant??? Well I don't know any surpassing glory of the new covenant etc... Is that how you understood the text?

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
The law is Not based on Faith..Galatians 3:12

Brother, the law cannot save us. God uses our faith demonstrated through obedience to save us. We are not saving ourselves by obeying, God is the one who saves us through our obedience on a path of growth. In terms we can understand, you can't win the Olympics in a lifetime without a good coach to keep you motivated and focused to hit the important marks along the way.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:6-10 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj · Aug 25, 2020

pasifika said:
So the man in Mark 10:17-27 lack the surpassing glory of the new covenant??? Well I don't know any surpassing glory of the new covenant etc... Is that how you understood the text?

Brother, I am remembering this other passage when I speak of the "surpassing glory" of the new covenant over the old ten commandments "engraved in letters on stone". "surpassing" means more than not less than the ten commandments.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

LoveGodsWord · Aug 25, 2020

Bob S said:
Concerning Heb 4 the rest the writer of Heb was referring was our rest in Christ. If that were not so then the writer was preaching to the choir. The Jews were already observing the Sabbath. They didn't need to be told anything about Sabbath observance. The content of Heb 4 is telling us that the Jews had never entered the rest God had for them. Since they were strict Sabbath believers that rest certainly was not about the Seventh day rest, it had to do with something much greater than not doing anything on Saturday. Jesus tells us to come unto Him to find rest. Our rest is in Jesus Christ not a command that ended at Calvary along with the remainder of the old covenant laws.

Our rest is in Christ. Hebrews 4 is talking about God's rest which is the seventh day Sabbath and combining our rest in Christ by believing God's Word (the gospel) as being a condition of entering into God's seventh day Sabbath rest. Context is provided in HEBREWS 4:1-5.

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH (God's rest)

We enter into God's rest by believing and following God's Word. If we do not believe and follow God's Word we have no rest as there is no rest for the wicked according to the scriptures *Hebrews 3; Hebrews 4; Isaiah 57:20-21 or entering into God's sabbath rest.

Hope this is helpful

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