Where do the dead go? The answers may surprise you :)

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

Hello all,
as a pastor (by God's grace) the question I hear most often is: "where do the dead go?"

The following video was made to answer that question.

Here's the summary: the answer depends on 2 main things:
1) whether the person was justified or not
2) whether that person died before the cross (Old Testament) or after the cross (New Testament)

In the O.T. both lost and saved went down into the heart of the earth into the same prison-complex. However, the saved were in the upper level, what Christ called Abraham's bosom.
It's important to note that Abraham's bosom is not heaven.
The lost went to a lower level, hell proper, tormented in flames.

In the N.T. the lost still go to hell, but the saved, because the blood of Christ is now shed, now go straight up to heaven, where the Lord had previously carried the souls that had been imprisoned in Abraham's bosom upon his resurrection (Eph.4).

I hope this comforts you if you're saved: there is now nothing hindering your soul from going straight to heaven to be with the Lord for ever! Amen?

eleos1954 · Aug 25, 2020

George Antonios said:
Hello all,
as a pastor (by God's grace) the question I hear most often is: "where do the dead go?"

The following video was made to answer that question.

Here's the summary: the answer depends on 2 main things:
1) whether the person was justified or not
2) whether that person died before the cross (Old Testament) or after the cross (New Testament)

In the O.T. both lost and saved went down into the heart of the earth into the same prison-complex. However, the saved were in the upper level, what Christ called Abraham's bosom.
It's important to note that Abraham's bosom is not heaven.
The lost went to a lower level, hell proper, tormented in flames.

In the N.T. the lost still go to hell, but the saved, because the blood of Christ is now shed, now go straight up to heaven, where the Lord had previously carried the souls that had been imprisoned in Abraham's bosom upon his resurrection (Eph.4).

I hope this comforts you if you're saved: there is now nothing hindering your soul from going straight to heaven to be with the Lord for ever! Amen?

The dead go to the grave (in a dormant sleep) and await resurrection.

State of the Dead

Psalm 90:3-6

You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

Job 7:21

"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10-12

"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 13:3

Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

Daniel 12:2

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24

He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Mark 5:39

And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."

Luke 8:52-53

Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

1 Kings 2:10

Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Deuteronomy 31:16

The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12

"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 11:43

And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

1 Kings 14:20

The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

1 Kings 16:6

And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

1 Kings 22:50

And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 14:16

So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 15:7

And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 16:20

So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

2 Kings 20:21

So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 21:18

And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

John 11:11-14

This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.

Acts 7:60

Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6

After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

John 5:28-29

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Job 14:13-15

"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

Psalm 17:15

As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

Isaiah 26:19

Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.

1 Corinthians 15:20

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Jeremiah 51:57

"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Psalm 7:3-5

O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 76:5

The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

Jeremiah 51:39

"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.

Arc F1 · Aug 25, 2020

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2 KJV
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

I always believed we were in limbo until such time we were awakened. Sheol.

Friedrich Rubinstein · Aug 25, 2020

There might be different ways to understand Scripture on this, but in my humble opinion it does not make much sense to say that anyone goes to heaven/hell before judgement day. Whenever I read one of the many passages in the Bible that describe Jesus' return and the judgement, it seems obvious to me that the dead rise from their graves to be judged and then go to heaven or hell; not that they are in heaven, get judged and then return to heaven...

I found this video explaining it all based on the Bible, what do you think about it?

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

eleos1954 said:
The dead go to the grave (in a dormant sleep) and await resurrection.

State of the Dead

Psalm 90:3-6

You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

Job 7:21

"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10-12

"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 13:3

Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

Daniel 12:2

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24

He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Mark 5:39

And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."

Luke 8:52-53

Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

1 Kings 2:10

Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Deuteronomy 31:16

The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12

"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 11:43

And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

1 Kings 14:20

The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

1 Kings 16:6

And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

1 Kings 22:50

And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 14:16

So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 15:7

And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 16:20

So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

2 Kings 20:21

So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 21:18

And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

John 11:11-14

This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.

Acts 7:60

Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6

After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

John 5:28-29

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Job 14:13-15

"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

Psalm 17:15

As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

Isaiah 26:19

Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.

1 Corinthians 15:20

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Jeremiah 51:57

"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Psalm 7:3-5

O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 76:5

The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

Jeremiah 51:39

"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.

I appreciate scriptures but it's hard to focus a reply to a listing of verses.
Maybe choose one or two verses?

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

Arc F1 said:
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2 KJV
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

I always believed we were in limbo until such time we were awakened. Sheol.

Since sleeping is there said to be in the dust, that verse is a reference to the body sleeping, since the soul cannot sleep in dust. Case in point, Christ said that Lazarus' body was "sleeping" (John 11).

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
There might be different ways to understand Scripture on this, but in my humble opinion it does not make much sense to say that anyone goes to heaven/hell before judgement day. Whenever I read one of the many passages in the Bible that describe Jesus' return and the judgement, it seems obvious to me that the dead rise from their graves to be judged and then go to heaven or hell; not that they are in heaven, get judged and then return to heaven...

I found this video explaining it all based on the Bible, what do you think about it?

I'll check it out, thanks; but a quick answer to your observation is that there are multiple resurrections in the Bible. It depends which one you're reading about.

Albion · Aug 25, 2020

George Antonios said:
Hello all,
as a pastor (by God's grace) the question I hear most often is: "where do the dead go?"

Hmmm. I'm mildly surprised. I would have guessed that questions like how to be saved (or assured of it) or perhaps how to understand the nature of God would be asked more often.

eleos1954 · Aug 25, 2020

George Antonios said:
I appreciate scriptures but it's hard to focus a reply to a listing of verses.
Maybe choose one or two verses?

Best to cover the totality of scripture on the subject .... else people take one or two verses and twist them around to fit their adopted theology.

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

eleos1954 said:
Best to cover the totality of scripture on the subject .... else people take one or two verses and twist them around to fit their adopted theology.

I agree, and we should discuss all verses on a topic, definitely. But just listing verse does not provide context. Anyway, if you wish, choose one to start and we can go through them all.

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

Albion said:
Hmmm. I'm mildly surprised. I would have guessed that questions like how to be saved (or assured of it) or perhaps how to understand the nature of God would be asked more often.

It's just my experience, possibly in different settings other preachers get different questions.
I certainly wish what must I do to be saved was the most asked question

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
There might be different ways to understand Scripture on this, but in my humble opinion it does not make much sense to say that anyone goes to heaven/hell before judgement day. Whenever I read one of the many passages in the Bible that describe Jesus' return and the judgement, it seems obvious to me that the dead rise from their graves to be judged and then go to heaven or hell; not that they are in heaven, get judged and then return to heaven...

I found this video explaining it all based on the Bible, what do you think about it?

Ok so I watched 2/3 of it, and indeed:

1) he does not note that there is more than one resurrection prophesied in the Bible. The general resurrection at judgment day is called of John the second resurrection (Rev.20:6) as he speaks of a first resurrection (Rev.20:6) which are clearly separated by 1,000 years of time.
2) Abraham's bosom was only the place of the righteous before the cross, but not after.
3) There is more than one judgment day. Matthew 25 is at the beginning of the millennial kingdom.
Revelation 20:11-15 is at the end thereof.
4) The judgment seat of Christ is not the great white throne judgment.

Many details have been confounded together in that video.

eleos1954 · Aug 25, 2020

George Antonios said:
I agree, and we should discuss all verses on a topic, definitely. But just listing verse does not provide context. Anyway, if you wish, choose one to start and we can go through them all.

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

dqhall · Aug 25, 2020

George Antonios said:
Hello all,
as a pastor (by God's grace) the question I hear most often is: "where do the dead go?"

The following video was made to answer that question.

Here's the summary: the answer depends on 2 main things:
1) whether the person was justified or not
2) whether that person died before the cross (Old Testament) or after the cross (New Testament)

In the O.T. both lost and saved went down into the heart of the earth into the same prison-complex. However, the saved were in the upper level, what Christ called Abraham's bosom.
It's important to note that Abraham's bosom is not heaven.
The lost went to a lower level, hell proper, tormented in flames.

In the N.T. the lost still go to hell, but the saved, because the blood of Christ is now shed, now go straight up to heaven, where the Lord had previously carried the souls that had been imprisoned in Abraham's bosom upon his resurrection (Eph.4).

I hope this comforts you if you're saved: there is now nothing hindering your soul from going straight to heaven to be with the Lord for ever! Amen?

Jesus was going to raise Lazarus from the dead, World English Bible - Public Domain:

John 11:17 So when Jesus came, he found that he had been in the tomb four days already. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about fifteen stadia away. 19 Many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to console them concerning their brother. 20 Then when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary stayed in the house. 21 Therefore Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you would have been here, my brother wouldn’t have died. 22 Even now I know that whatever you ask of God, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will still live, even if he dies. 26 Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to him, “Yes, Lord. I have come to believe that you are the Christ, God’s Son, he who comes into the world.”

28 When she had said this, she went away and called Mary, her sister, secretly, saying, “The Teacher is here and is calling you.”

29 When she heard this, she arose quickly and went to him. 30 Now Jesus had not yet come into the village, but was in the place where Martha met him. 31 Then the Jews who were with her in the house and were consoling her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up quickly and went out, followed her, saying, “She is going to the tomb to weep there.” 32 Therefore when Mary came to where Jesus was and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying to him, “Lord, if you would have been here, my brother wouldn’t have died.”

33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews weeping who came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 34 and said, “Where have you laid him?”

They told him, “Lord, come and see.”

35 Jesus wept.

36 The Jews therefore said, “See how much affection he had for him!” 37 Some of them said, “Couldn’t this man, who opened the eyes of him who was blind, have also kept this man from dying?”

38 Jesus therefore, again groaning in himself, came to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.”

Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to him, “Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”

40 Jesus said to her, “Didn’t I tell you that if you believed, you would see God’s glory?”

41 So they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, “Father, I thank you that you listened to me. 42 I know that you always listen to me, but because of the multitude standing around I said this, that they may believe that you sent me.” 43 When he had said this, he cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”

44 He who was dead came out, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth.

Jesus said to them, “Free him, and let him go.”

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

eleos1954 said:
1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

King James Bible:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

A number of things can be pointed out, but the first is that you would have to establish that "sleep" is there a reference to the soul, not the body.

Gabriel speaks of sleeping in the dust:
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The soul cannot sleep in dust. But the body can, especially since it was the body that was made of the dust:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

eleos1954 · Aug 25, 2020

George Antonios said:
King James Bible:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

A number of things can be pointed out, but the first is that you would have to establish that "sleep" is there a reference to the soul, not the body.

Gabriel speaks of sleeping in the dust:
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The soul cannot sleep in dust. But the body can, especially since it was the body that was made of the dust:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7

Then the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nostrils, and the man became a living person.

I living person IS a soul .... a person ...

Do souls die?

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

According to God's Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17). Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul goes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.

There is nothing immortal about us ... we do not become immortal until Jesus returns and changes us.

Semper-Fi · Aug 25, 2020

A "bosom" is the breast of a human being, with the arms as an enclosure; a loving embrace by the arms of one person about another; an intimate relationship.

So Luke 16 then, A "bosom" here means to enter into
an intimate relationship with Abraham.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed
(children), and heirs according to the promise."

Thru Christ we become the children of Abraham.
Thru faith we all become "the children of Abraham."

That is an intimate relationship with Abraham.
That is being taken into Abraham's bosom!

Now we and Abraham is an HEIR of God. Did God
ever promise Abraham and his children HEAVEN?

God promised Abraham: "For all the LAND which thou
seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed FOREVER."

Abraham is heir to the world.

God will care for His people as a shepherd does for his
sheep, which He will carry "in His bosom." Isaiah 40:11

Jesus was "in the bosom" of the Father (John 1:18),
enjoying the Father's blessings and close relationship.

Moses carried the children of Israel in his bosom.
To be in one's bosom is to have that one's love and
protection, and share his blessings and inheritance.

So it will be AT THE RESURRECTION!

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

eleos1954 said:
Genesis 2:7

Then the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nostrils, and the man became a living person.

I living person IS a soul .... a person ...

Do souls die?

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

According to God's Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17). Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul goes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.

There is nothing immortal about us ... we do not become immortal until Jesus returns and changes us.

I did not say that souls can't die. I said you'd have to establish that Paul is talking about the soul sleeping rather than the body sleeping - like Lazarus was "sleeping".
And then if you can prove that the context is about the soul dying, you'll have to explain how a soul which is "in Christ" can die in the first place, since the whole point of the soul being '"in Christ" is that is won't ever die (Jn.11:26).

George Antonios · Aug 25, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
A "bosom" is the breast of a human being, with the arms as an enclosure; a loving embrace by the arms of one person about another; an intimate relationship.

So Luke 16 then, A "bosom" here means to enter into
an intimate relationship with Abraham.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed
(children), and heirs according to the promise."

Thru Christ we become the children of Abraham.
Thru faith we all become "the children of Abraham."

That is an intimate relationship with Abraham.
That is being taken into Abraham's bosom!

Now we and Abraham is an HEIR of God. Did God
ever promise Abraham and his children HEAVEN?

God promised Abraham: "For all the LAND which thou
seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed FOREVER."

Abraham is heir to the world.

God will care for His people as a shepherd does for his
sheep, which He will carry "in His bosom." Isaiah 40:11

Jesus was "in the bosom" of the Father (John 1:18),
enjoying the Father's blessings and close relationship.

Moses carried the children of Israel in his bosom.
To be in one's bosom is to have that one's love and
protection, and share his blessings and inheritance.

So it will be AT THE RESURRECTION!

The whole passage is geographical: great gulf fixed, send, thence, carried, pass etc.

We don't need angels to carry us into an "intimate relationship with Abraham".

Semper-Fi · Aug 25, 2020

George Antonios said:
The whole passage is geographical: great gulf fixed, send, thence, carried, pass etc.

We don't need angels to carry us into an "intimate relationship with Abraham".

Christ shall "send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds"-- out of their graves in a RESURRECTION.
(Mat. 24:31.)

The TIME when the angels carry Lazarus and the saints into sharing the INHERITANCE
with Abraham-- into Abraham's bosom-- is the time of the RESURRECTION!

There is a great gulf fixed between a doomed sinner
and all the glorified saints in God's Kingdom.

The gulf mentioned by Abraham which prevents the wicked
from escaping death by hell-fire, and which also keeps
the righteous from being burned, is immortality.

Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable.

Where do the dead go? The answers may surprise you :)

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