Is Jesus The Son of God?

Kiwi Jane

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I'm not sure where the implantation of an embryo is coming from. An embryo still has DNA, so where would that then come from? My personal opinion is that Jesus was physically only the son of Mary, as God doesn't have DNA, and moreover he had to be a descendant physically of King David as we know from the prophecies. That is important to remember and why genealogies are given in scripture. I know it's an odd concept, but it would have been a sort of miraculous asexual reproduction. It's certainly not unheard in the animal kingdom, so God certainly already created the potential.

Martin Luther believed in Mary's perpetual virginity and immaculate conception. He said, "Mother Mary, like us, was born in sin of sinful parents, but the Holy Spirit covered her, sanctified and purified her so that this child was born of flesh and blood, but not with sinful flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit permitted the Virgin Mary to remain a true, natural human being of flesh and blood, just as we. However, he warded off sin from her flesh and blood so that she became the mother of a pure child, not poisoned by sin as we are. For in that moment when she conceived, she was a holy mother filled with the Holy Spirit and her fruit is a holy pure fruit, at once God and truly man, in one person." I think this fits theologically with the idea of Mary being Jesus' only biological parent. She was purified and sanctified for this divine purpose. (That said I am not personally opposed to the idea of Mary and Joseph having later had children, but it isn't clear from the scripture or the Early Church Fathers. Certainly James, called the brother of the Lord, and his siblings were very close relatives of Jesus)

Joseph was his step-father, the definition given by Merriam-Webster for stepfather is "the husband of one's parent when distinct from one's natural or legal father."
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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My personal opinion is that Jesus was physically only the son of Mary, as God doesn't have DNA, and moreover he had to be a descendant physically of King David as we know from the prophecies.

Joseph is the descendant of David, not Mary. Jesus isn't a descendant physically of King David in the Bible since Joseph is not his biological father, but he is a descendant of King David because Joseph is his father nevertheless.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Joseph is the descendant of David, not Mary. Jesus isn't a descendant physically of King David in the Bible since Joseph is not his biological father, but he is a descendant of King David because Joseph is his father nevertheless.
Also, Mary is a descendant of King David...though traditionally only the father's side is taken into account in those lines given us.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Where does it say that? :eek:
I get this meaning from the fact that both Mary and Joseph went to be registered to be taxed in the same place...also some say that the recorded line of Christ (as to His human side) which Luke records is the line of Christ from Mary's side...this may be wrong. We do know for certain that Joseph was of the line of King David however.
 
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YeshuaFan

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I know that this is a ridiculous question because the obvious answer is yes He is. Although it seems like that a lot of people don't believe that and think that the Father and the Son are the exactly the same being and person. Which even though they are alike they are not the same because even Jesus refers to the creator as being His Father and prays to Him. He couldn't pray to Himself. So I just had to make this topic to make that perfectly clear. Jesus is the Son of God and Joseph is His step-father. I've known this even before I turned double digits.
Jesus is God who became a sinless human being, He is the eternal Word of the father became a man, but is not the Father!
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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I get this meaning from the fact that both Mary and Joseph went to be registered to be taxed in the same place...also some say that the recorded line of Christ (as to His human side) which Luke records is the line of Christ from Mary's side...this may be wrong. We do know for certain that Joseph was of the line of King David however.

Hmm, I always thought that families went to the place of the father's origin to be taxed, independent of the mother's origin, but I might be wrong on that.
 
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Bobber

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Yes that is true that God the spirit does not have a mother but Mary was indeed the mother of Jesus.

Yes well if you asked Jesus while on the earth, "Who is your mother?" He would have said Mary. But he would say that knowing he's meaning that only in a certain context. That would be she brought forth the physical component of his flesh and blood body. Not him but IT.

We need to remember though the physical body IS NOT the real person in the truest sense. The true being is the Spirit or the spirit of man.

You'll notice how the prophesy stated, “But a body You have prepared for Me.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:5‬ It give you the sense that the body of the physical is not the REAL person but the house they live in. Paul the Apostle stated about the difference between Spirit and flesh even with humans. He stated, But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: 1 Cor 9:27 So he called his physical body IT....and not him.

I think of a glove. The real life of course is that hand that goes in the glove. The glove is a mere covering. We may say the glove is the hand but not really. And the physical body is not really the person.

Now in legal affairs on this earth there is a right context in which we say the physical body is us. If someone hits you you say they hit me. Exactly but the greater spiritual truth is the physical is not you.
 
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eleos1954

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Jesus was true God and True man...he acquired His humanity through Mary. Jesus as Savior had to take on flesh to fulfill perfectly the LAW for us and save us from what was held against us and our salvation....in this way He reversed the curse...see the first chapters of Romans.

Mary had a sinful nature (just like any of us - through Adam & Eves lineage) .... Yes, Jesus had to have a fleshly (human) body .... what I'm saying is that God made the total conception happen within Mary .... nothing biological from her.

Just as the first Adam was created without sin .... so Jesus was born without sin.

We know all are born with a sin nature .... Jesus was not born with a sin nature.

He was God in the form of a man.

Jesus is fully God and fully man, and the fact of His incarnation is of utmost importance. He lived a human life but did not possess a sin nature as we do. He was tempted but never sinned (Hebrews 2:14-18; 4:15). Sin entered the world through Adam, and Adam’s sinful nature has been transferred to every baby born into the world (Romans 5:12)—except for Jesus.
 
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Dkh587

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Joseph is the descendant of David, not Mary. Jesus isn't a descendant physically of King David in the Bible since Joseph is not his biological father, but he is a descendant of King David because Joseph is his father nevertheless.

Christ is indeed a physical descendant of David. His mother was born into David’s line - it’s right in Matthew 1

2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel
 
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plain jayne

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Christ is indeed a physical descendant of David. His mother was born into David’s line - it’s right in Matthew 1

2 Timothy 2:8

Actually, Matthew gives Joseph's legal lineage. Luke give Mary's biological lineage.

Mary and Joseph both are directly descended from David.
 
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Dkh587

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Actually, Matthew gives Joseph's legal lineage. Luke give Mary's biological lineage.

Mary and Joseph both are directly descended from David.
Seemingly, Matthew lists Joseph’s lineage, yet Luke also lists his lineage.

Luke 3 says nothing about Mary. Luke 3 says Joseph is the son of Heli, yet Matthew 1 says Joseph is the son of Jacob.

is Joseph, Mary’s husband, the son of Heli or Joseph?
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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Actually, Matthew gives Joseph's legal lineage. Luke give Mary's biological lineage.

Mary and Joseph both are directly descended from David.

In my Bible both lineages are Joseph's. I don't know where you see Mary in there.
 
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solid_core

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In my Bible both lineages are Joseph's. I don't know where you see Mary in there.
Nowhere. Its just a strategy how to explain two different genealogies... somebody just said "the other one is of Mary". No evidence.
 
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The Liturgist

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A surrogate mother would have the egg of another woman so Mary was not a surrogate. I agree with you that she is not the mother of God as God is not created or born. She birthed the human flesh God the Son would inhabit for his Earthly life. This makes him 100 percent man (via Mary) and also 100 percent God (via the Father)

Note that the Council of Ephesus decreed, against Nestorius, in 431 that since Christ is God, and Mary gave birth to God, the term Theotokos is doctrinally correct. The problem with Nestorian Christology is it introduces a division between the human and divine natures, which are undivided, and is incompatible also with the fundamental Christological doctrine of communicatio idiomatum, which basically states that any statement you make about one nature of Christ can be communicated to the other, due to the hypostatic union defined by Chalcedon. And Chalcedon by the way requires the acceptance of the council of Ephesus; one cannot claim to be Chalcedonian without accepting the council of Ephesus as the proceedings of the Council of Chalcedon expressly require acceptance of the term “Theotokos” and of the council of Ephesus.
 
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plain jayne

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Seemingly, Matthew lists Joseph’s lineage, yet Luke also lists his lineage.

Luke 3 says nothing about Mary. Luke 3 says Joseph is the son of Heli, yet Matthew 1 says Joseph is the son of Jacob.

is Joseph, Mary’s husband, the son of Heli or Joseph?

First, let me chase this rabbit. To get the whole Christmas story you have to read Matthew and Luke.
  • Matthew = Joseph's dream and message from the angel, his reaction, the Wise Men, and Herod.
  • Luke = Mary's message from the angel, her reaction, the shepherds, and the angels.
With that being said, the two genealogies are different in that Matthew lineage of Jesus through King Solomon, David's son and Luke lineage of Jesus goes through Nathan, David's son and the names of men all the way from those points are completely different men.

So both of these cannot be the genealogy of Christ.

Matthew is writing to Jews. He HAS to point out the "credentials" of Jesus to BE the Messiah and that's being a son of Abraham. That's why his lineage STARTS with Abraham and goes FORWARD to Joseph, the legal father. He starts by saying - here is a man's genealogy - let me tell you why he is the Christ".

Luke is writing to Gentiles - one in particular. They don't need any historical background for the credentials of a Messiah. They need to know that Jesus IS God. That's why he starts with the Joseph and as he calls him parenthetically "the son [as it was supposed] of Joseph". Then, he lists completely different ancestors. And he goes BACKWARD all the way to God. Luke starts by telling a man's story and USES his genealogy to prove he is God.

With THAT being said .....whew......Matthew teaches the legal status of Jesus in his opening. Joseph's genealogy.

Luke teaches the Godhead of Jesus in his genealogy - Mary's being the one who carried part of that Godhead - the Son - this is her genealogy.

Others believe differently, but since this does not cause one to be saved or damned - to each his own.
 
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The Liturgist

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What evidence is there that they are undivided?

This is a complex subject, and its a good idea to read up on why Nestorian Christology was rejected, and to read Cyril of Alexandria, for example, but in essence the economy of salvation, the ability of Jesus to save us, depends upon the union, without change, confusion, or separation, of the distinct human and divine natures.
 
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plain jayne

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In my Bible both lineages are Joseph's. I don't know where you see Mary in there.

So Joseph came from both Solomon, son of David AND Nathan, son of David.

He is descended directly from the sperm of TWO brothers? Hmm.....that's not how my mother explained it to me back in elementary school! ^_^
 
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solid_core

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This is a complex subject, and its a good idea to read up on why Nestorian Christology was rejected, and to read Cyril of Alexandria, for example, but in essence the economy of salvation, the ability of Jesus to save us, depends upon the union, without change, confusion, or separation, of the distinct human and divine natures.
Becaus God does not change, do you propose that He has always had the human nature?

What does "the human nature" even mean, exactly?
 
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