Did Jesus bear the whole sinful condition of the universe on the cross, or only man's sin?

Hmm. Jesus died to justify us in God's eyes, and to enable us to have a relationship with God. Animals and nature have no conscience and are not responsible for what they do, nor will animals go to hell anyway. I don't see any benefit of Jesus' death for animals and plants.

zoidar said:

Adam's fall lead to a corruption of the whole universe, creation itself got in some sense plagued with sin. Did Jesus bear the whole sinful condition of the universe on the cross, or only man's sin? Thoughts ...

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Creation itself groans for redemption...so I would say he also took on the sinful condition of the universe, or rather, the way the universe is now broken and imperfect because of sin.

ewq1938 said:

What scripture says the entire universe was corrupted from Adam's sin?

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For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

zoidar said:

Adam's fall lead to a corruption of the whole universe, creation itself got in some sense plagued with sin. Did Jesus bear the whole sinful condition of the universe on the cross, or only man's sin? Thoughts ...

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Only those made in God`s image. Be blessed.

Hello zoidar,

the answer to your question is very clear: Jesus atonement accounts for all sin. It doesn't matter so much to make distinctions between sin in humans, animals, angles or what have you, as long as it is not clarified, why you would make such distinctions.

Having said that, tell me, what is your issue behind the question?

jomenvisst,

Springbok

The atonement freed the "carbon based" material universe from the affects of mans' disobedience. This is how and why the cosmos gets recreated.

There are entities that are outside of redemption though. Fallen angels are one of them. (As far as I'm aware; the Scripture does not name any others.)

Within this too though; comes the discussion of what the atonement actually covered in regards to the sin of individuals; because not all humans become redeemed.

zoidar said:

Adam's fall lead to a corruption of the whole universe, creation itself got in some sense plagued with sin. Did Jesus bear the whole sinful condition of the universe on the cross, or only man's sin? Thoughts ...

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Sin started in heaven with Lucifer and the 1/3 angels .... the Lord expelled them from there and they came to the earth ... Adam & Eve were deceived ... sinned .... and sin corrupted the earth and everything on it. The plants, trees, animals, ecosystem., weather patterns etc. all were all effected.

Romans 8:22

Berean Study Bible
We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time.

Since satan has dominion over the earth (replaced/conquered Adam) ..... I do not believe sin is effecting/effected the universe .... just the earth and everything on/in it.

It appears that satan does have some limited access to heaven (ie in the book of Job) but that heaven is not his permanent abode ... earth is.

Jesus died for mankind alone. In the very end He will make a new heaven and new earth with the old being destroyed by fire.

Cats don’t sin, although one of mine does occasionally pee on my carpet.

zoidar said:

Adam's fall lead to a corruption of the whole universe, creation itself got in some sense plagued with sin. Did Jesus bear the whole sinful condition of the universe on the cross, or only man's sin? Thoughts ...

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It seems to me that the whole creation groans, not just the earth. God created everything both visible and invisible during the creation week. Also, we have the statement there will be a new heaven and new earth in Rev. Peter uses plural in heavens, so seems like stars (universe) will be effected. Also Gods judgments effects the stars, the Sun being our star.

Once God restores creation to it's pristine shape, they will never run down or wear out, IMO.

And Jesus can only die for humans, not the creation-but the redemption of mankind does effect the creation one day. It was just cursed for mans sake, the creation was innocent-besides the snake, and angels that sinned.

Hebrews says the
“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,

12AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”

7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

eleos1954 said:

Sin started in heaven with Lucifer and the 1/3 angels

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1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What exactly was Lucifer"s sin, is his rebellion documented as SIN?

eleos1954 said:

Since satan has dominion over the earth (replaced/conquered Adam)

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What does this verse mean then?

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

How can/does Satan retain Dominion over the Earth, having been defeated by Jesus, and by our Reconciliation to God by Jesus?

WE Christians have been given back the Dominion lost through the fall.

If The Devils of Satan can be cast out, how does Satan have Dominion?

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

zoidar said:

The sinful condition is death, so if the universe were uneffected by sin I would think it would be a paradise for us out there in space.

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Every thing is running down now and decaying. Before the fall not so. Very good is what God said about the creation.

Is the Universe Decaying?

This is related to the fact that heaven isn't our eternal home, like many believe. Our forever home is the new heavens and new earth. This remaking goes far beyond just remaking humans by giving us new bodies.

Revelation 21:1–5
"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, 'Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.' Then He who sat on the throne said, 'Behold, I make all things new.' And He said to me, 'Write, for these words are true and faithful.' "


Isaiah 65:17–19
"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, and her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people; the voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

zoidar said:

Adam's fall affected the whole creation. Christ is the second Adam, isn't he undoing the effects of Adam?

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Yes, and even more than an undoing, it's a whole new creation.

JIMINZ said:

1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What exactly was Lucifer"s sin, is his rebellion documented as SIN?




What does this verse mean then?

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

How can/does Satan retain Dominion over the Earth, having been defeated by Jesus, and by our Reconciliation to God by Jesus?

WE Christians have been given back the Dominion lost through the fall.

If The Devils of Satan can be cast out, how does Satan have Dominion?

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Click to expand...

IMO, we can piece together what happened and what will happen to Satan.

So, Satan was lifted up with pride in dwelt the serpent, and was cast out of the garden, but still has access to the throne room (Job). 1/3 of the angels in heaven followed him in the rebellion, some were put in Hades others were allowed to remain free-in order to fulfill Scripture. He was judged at the cross and he knows his fate is sealed- because Jesus is the new Adam, and will one day take back dominion from him (Rev 10).

He will be further limited during the last half of the 70th week of Daniel (3.5 years) when he is cast out of heaven for good and has great wrath against anything God. He will then be put in the bottomless pit (Hades) for 1000 years when Christ returns to take possession of the earth from him and his followers, and reigns on the earth in the MK. He will set free for a short season to draw out all unbelievers born in the the 1000 year reign. He is then thrown in the lake of fire just before the great white throne judgment-that was prepared for him and his angels that sinned, and all his children (unbelievers).

So his judgement is drawn out over a long period of time-just like someone on death row. If we see the big picture, it all makes sense.

Yes, Christians do have power over the demons and our soul cannot be touched, nor can we be indwelt by them (but oppressed and deceived), but the non born again are still under his dominion-the children of disobedience, along with the world system-governments, airwaves and such. This is what I believe the Bible teaches.

3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.


4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, a putting them in chains of darkness b to be held for judgment;

Satan behind the King of Tyre,

11The word of the Lord came to me: 12“Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“ ‘You were the seal of perfection,

full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13You were in Eden,

the garden of God;

every precious stone adorned you:

carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,

topaz, onyx and jasper,

lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. b

Your settings and mountings c were made of gold;

on the day you were created they were prepared.

14You were anointed as a guardian cherub,

for so I ordained you.

You were on the holy mount of God;

you walked among the fiery stones.

15You were blameless in your ways

from the day you were created

till wickedness was found in you.

16Through your widespread trade

you were filled with violence,

and you sinned.

So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,

and I expelled you, guardian cherub,

from among the fiery stones.

17Your heart became proud

on account of your beauty,

and you corrupted your wisdom

because of your splendor.