Deeper than the Surface

Victor in Christ · Aug 22, 2020

Look at your life , look at the pictures in the video, the humming bird extracting nectar from the flower (extracting delight from the bible) is one picture that touched me, standing on the mountain top, the oasis in the desert.........

God bless.....

pinacled · Aug 22, 2020

Victor in Christ said:
Don't know, could it be seven ?

4 is the correct answer.
And multiplied with 45 equals a half yom(day)

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

AbbaLove said:
This thread title "Deeper Than The Surface" implies the great importance of the abiding presence (baptism/immersion) of His Ruach HaKodesh indwelling us.

No it doesn't. Did you read the OP? It speaks of the depth of the Torah, and to the depth to which we are to keep it. It somewhat puzzles me why it seems every time I start a thread concerning the Torah, someone wants to quickly change the subject and start talking about the spirits.

The churches that ignore the Torah are full of talk about the spirits.

This is a Messianic forum. I would hope to be able to find someone here who would be interested in talking about the depth of YHWH's Torah.

Let's ask that we not derail this thread any further; while brushing his perfect Torah under the rug.

Victor in Christ · Aug 22, 2020

There's only one spirit Hark and he comes through full belief in Christ Jesus, a deep inner confession that you are not even worthy to be on this earth. We are the created ( examine the book of Job). If it wasn't for Christ shedding his blood for our sins and offering us eternal life, we'd be lost to the world. Christ will bless you abundantly if you humble yourself before your creator.

I don't have the knowledge of everything this preacher says....but i know Christ is powerful like he does.

god bless

Mr. M · Aug 22, 2020

HARK! said:
This is because those who are obedient to Torah are in Messiah.

Philippians 3:6. concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Was Paul "In Messiah" before his conversion experience; by Torah alone?!?
I am sure that you have previously argued as such, using the above quote.
Galatians 1:
12 I did not receive it from any human, nor was I taught it, but it came through
a revelation of Yeshua the Messiah.
13 For you have heard of my earlier behavior in Judaism—how I persecuted God’s community
beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 I was even advancing within Judaism beyond many my own age among my people,
being a more extreme observer of my fathers’ traditions.
Talk about a circular argument!
Philippians 3:6. as for zeal, persecuting Messiah’s community; [full verse]
as for Torah righteousness, found blameless.
Clearly, the fault was not in the Torah, but in the Spirit. He needed new traditions.
The Torah alone did not prevent most of the Pharisees from being blinded. Isaiah 6:10
1 Corinthians 11:
1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Messiah.
2 Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firm the traditions
just as I passed them on to you.
How did he know Messiah? from Torah? or by revelation of the Spirit?
Where did Paul receive these new traditions?
1 Corinthians 11:23. For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you—
that the Lord Yeshua, on the night He was betrayed, took bread;
Paul was not a disciple of Yeshua or sit at the Lord's Table, yet when brothers were sent
out to check on these new congregations, they found them breaking bread!

1 Timothy 1:
12 I thank Messiah Yeshua our Lord, who has strengthened me, because
He considered me faithful, appointing me to service.
13 Even though I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man.
Yet I was shown mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief,
14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed with the faith and love that are
in Messiah Yeshua.
15 Trustworthy is the saying and deserving of complete acceptance:
Messiah Yeshua came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am foremost.
[He was a chief sinner, though blameless by The Law!]
16 Yet for this reason I was shown mercy—so that in me as the foremost,
Messiah Yeshua might demonstrate His complete patience, as an example
for those about to put their trust in Him for eternal life.

Romans 16:
25 Now to the One who is able to strengthen you according to my Good News and
the proclamation of Yeshua the Messiah, according to the revelation of the mystery
which has been kept secret for long ages,
26 but now is revealed and through the Writings of the Prophets has been made known to all the nations, according to the commandment of the eternal God to bring about obedience of faith—
27 to the only wise God, through Yeshua the Messiah, to Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Victor in Christ · Aug 22, 2020

O God, my heart doth long for Thee,
Let me die, let me die;
Now set my soul at liberty,
Let me die, let me die;
To all the trifling things of earth,
They’re now to me of little worth,
My Saviour calls, I must go forth,
Let me die, let me die.

The slaying power in me display,
Let me die, let me die;
I must be dead from day to day,
Let me die, let me die;
Unto the world and its applause,
To all the customs, fashions, laws,
Of those who hate the humbling cross,
Let me die, let me die.

My friends may say, “I’ll ruined be,”
Let me die, let me die;
But all I leave and follow Thee,
Let me die, let me die;
Their arguments will never weigh,
Nor stand the trying judgment day,
Help me to cast them all away,
Let me die, let me die.

Author: Janette Palmiter

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

Victor in Christ said:
There's only one spirit Hark

(CLV) Mt 12:43
"Now, whenever the unclean spirit may be coming out from a man, it is passing through waterless places seeking rest, and is not finding it.

(CLV) Mt 12:44
Then it is saying, `Into my home will I be turning back, whence I came out.' And coming, it is finding it |unoccupied, and swept and decorated.

(CLV) Mt 12:45
Then it is going and taking along with itself seven other spirits, more wicked than itself, and entering, it is dwelling there. And the last state of that man is becoming worse than the first. Thus will it be to this wicked generation also."

Again; this thread is about the Torah. Why is it that when we talk about the Torah; people say "er-um" and change the subject to spirits?

This tread is about YHWH's perfect Torah.

We test spirits by his Torah.

Deuteronomy 13

Complete Jewish Bible

13 (12:32) “Everything I am commanding you, you are to take care to do. Do not add to it or subtract from it.

2 (1) “If a prophet or someone who gets messages while dreaming arises among you and he gives you a sign or wonder, 3 (2) and the sign or wonder comes about as he predicted when he said, ‘Let’s follow other gods, which you have not known; and let us serve them,’ 4 (3) you are not to listen to what that prophet or dreamer says. For Adonai your God is testing you, in order to find out whether you really do love Adonai your God with all your heart and being. 5 (4) You are to follow Adonai your God, fear him, obey his mitzvot, listen to what he says, serve him and cling to him; 6 (5) and that prophet or dreamer is to be put to death; because he urged rebellion against Adonai your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from a life of slavery; in order to seduce you away from the path Adonai your God ordered you to follow. This is how you are to rid your community of this wickedness.

7 (6) “If your brother the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or your wife whom you love, or your friend who means as much to you as yourself, secretly tries to entice you to go and serve other gods, which you haven’t known, neither you nor your ancestors — 8 (7) gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near or far away from you, anywhere in the world — 9 (8) you are not to consent, and you are not to listen to him; and you must not pity him or spare him; and you may not conceal him. 10 (9) Rather, you must kill him! Your own hand must be the first one on him in putting him to death, and afterwards the hands of all the people. 11 (10) You are to stone him to death; because he has tried to draw you away from Adonai your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of a life of slavery. 12 (11) Then all Isra’el will hear about it and be afraid, so that they will stop doing such wickedness as this among themselves.

13 (12) “If you hear it told that in one of your cities which Adonai your God is giving you to live in, 14 (13) certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city by saying, ‘Let’s go and serve other gods, which you haven’t known,’ 15 (14) then you are to investigate the matter, inquiring and searching diligently. If the rumor is true, if it is confirmed that such detestable things are being done among you, 16 (15) you must put the inhabitants of that city to death with the sword, destroying it completely with the sword, everything in it, including its livestock. 17 (16) Heap all its spoils in an open space, and burn the city with its spoils to the ground for Adonai your God; it will remain a tel forever and not be built again — 18 (17) none of what has been set apart for destruction is to stay in your hands. Then Adonai will turn from his fierce anger and show you mercy, have compassion on you and increase your numbers, as he swore to your ancestors — 19 (18) provided you listen to what Adonai says and obey all his mitzvot that I am giving you today, thus doing what Adonai your God sees as right.

pinacled · Aug 22, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Mt 12:43
"Now, whenever the unclean spirit may be coming out from a man, it is passing through waterless places seeking rest, and is not finding it.

(CLV) Mt 12:44
Then it is saying, `Into my home will I be turning back, whence I came out.' And coming, it is finding it |unoccupied, and swept and decorated.

(CLV) Mt 12:45
Then it is going and taking along with itself seven other spirits, more wicked than itself, and entering, it is dwelling there. And the last state of that man is becoming worse than the first. Thus will it be to this wicked generation also."

Again; this thread is about the Torah. Why is it that when we talk about the Torah; people say "er-um" and change the subject to spirits?

This tread is about YHWH's perfect Torah.

We test spirits by his Torah.

Deuteronomy 13

Complete Jewish Bible

13 (12:32) “Everything I am commanding you, you are to take care to do. Do not add to it or subtract from it.

2 (1) “If a prophet or someone who gets messages while dreaming arises among you and he gives you a sign or wonder, 3 (2) and the sign or wonder comes about as he predicted when he said, ‘Let’s follow other gods, which you have not known; and let us serve them,’ 4 (3) you are not to listen to what that prophet or dreamer says. For Adonai your God is testing you, in order to find out whether you really do love Adonai your God with all your heart and being. 5 (4) You are to follow Adonai your God, fear him, obey his mitzvot, listen to what he says, serve him and cling to him; 6 (5) and that prophet or dreamer is to be put to death; because he urged rebellion against Adonai your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from a life of slavery; in order to seduce you away from the path Adonai your God ordered you to follow. This is how you are to rid your community of this wickedness.

7 (6) “If your brother the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or your wife whom you love, or your friend who means as much to you as yourself, secretly tries to entice you to go and serve other gods, which you haven’t known, neither you nor your ancestors — 8 (7) gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near or far away from you, anywhere in the world — 9 (8) you are not to consent, and you are not to listen to him; and you must not pity him or spare him; and you may not conceal him. 10 (9) Rather, you must kill him! Your own hand must be the first one on him in putting him to death, and afterwards the hands of all the people. 11 (10) You are to stone him to death; because he has tried to draw you away from Adonai your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of a life of slavery. 12 (11) Then all Isra’el will hear about it and be afraid, so that they will stop doing such wickedness as this among themselves.

13 (12) “If you hear it told that in one of your cities which Adonai your God is giving you to live in, 14 (13) certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city by saying, ‘Let’s go and serve other gods, which you haven’t known,’ 15 (14) then you are to investigate the matter, inquiring and searching diligently. If the rumor is true, if it is confirmed that such detestable things are being done among you, 16 (15) you must put the inhabitants of that city to death with the sword, destroying it completely with the sword, everything in it, including its livestock. 17 (16) Heap all its spoils in an open space, and burn the city with its spoils to the ground for Adonai your God; it will remain a tel forever and not be built again — 18 (17) none of what has been set apart for destruction is to stay in your hands. Then Adonai will turn from his fierce anger and show you mercy, have compassion on you and increase your numbers, as he swore to your ancestors — 19 (18) provided you listen to what Adonai says and obey all his mitzvot that I am giving you today, thus doing what Adonai your God sees as right.

Exodus 20:7

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Philippians 3:6. concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Was Paul "In Messiah" before his conversion experience; by Torah alone?!?
I am sure that you have previously argued as such, using the above quote.

The more appropriate question is "can one be in Messiah without the Torah?"

(CLV) Ga 3:24
So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.

"Has become" is the present perfect tense.

Do you believe that Paul could have been in Messiah while ignoring the Torah?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

pinacled said:
Exodus 20:7

Agreed, we should not render YHWH's kodesh name empty, as those who would blot it out.

pinacled · Aug 22, 2020

HARK! said:
The more appropriate question is "can one be in Messiah without the Torah?"

(CLV) Ga 3:24
So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.

"Has become" is the present perfect tense.

Do you believe that Paul could have been in Messiah while ignoring the Torah?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

Sheep know the voice of their Shepherd and will harken to no other.

Mr. M · Aug 22, 2020

HARK! said:
"Has become" is the present perfect tense.

Galatians 3:OJV
23 But before Emunah came, we were being held in custody, being confined and guarded
for the about-to-be- revealed Emunah.
24 This is the result: the Torah functioned as our omenet (governess) to lead us to Moshiach,
that by emunah we might be YITZDAK IM HASHEM.
25 But Emunah having come, we are no longer under an omenet (governess).
26 For through emunah in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua, you are all yeladim of Elohim.
27 For as many as have had a tevilah into Moshiach have clothed yourselves with Moshiach.
Galatians 5:OJV
1 For this “zman cheruteinu” (Pesach Haggadah Kiddush), Moshiach freed us; stand fast, therefore, and be not again bound by an ol (yoke) of avdut (slavery).
2 Hinei, I Sha’ul say to you, that if you Goyim undergo the bris milah, Moshiach will profit you nothing [3:12-14].
3 And I testify again to every one of you undergoing bris milah that such is chal (placed under obligation) to do the whole Torah.
4 You who want to be YITZDAK IM HASHEM ("justified with G-d") by chumra (legalism), [i.e., legal justification] by chukim of the Torah, are estranged from Moshiach, you at that point fall from the Chen v’Chesed Hashem.
5 For we by the Ruach Hakodesh eagerly await by emunah that for which we have tikvah, the Tzidkat Hashem (DANIEL 9:24).
6 For in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua neither bris milah is of any force nor the lack of it,
but emunah working through ahavah (agape).
7 You [Goyim] were running well: who hindered you from being persuaded by HaEmes?
8 This persuasion is not of the One calling you.
9 A little chametz leavens all habatzek (the dough, T.N. see Pesach Haggadah).
10 I have bitachon, (confidence) in you in Adoneinu that you will think nothing other, but the one troubling you will bear the judgment, whoever he may be.

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
25 But Emunah having come, we are no longer under an omenet (governess).

We are no longer under the curses of the law; when we are obedient to the law.

Minister Monardo said:
Galatians 5:OJV
1 For this “zman cheruteinu” (Pesach Haggadah Kiddush), Moshiach freed us; stand fast, therefore, and be not again bound by an ol (yoke) of avdut (slavery).
2 Hinei, I Sha’ul say to you, that if you Goyim undergo the bris milah, Moshiach will profit you nothing [3:12-14].
3 And I testify again to every one of you undergoing bris milah that such is chal (placed under obligation) to do the whole Torah.
4 You who want to be YITZDAK IM HASHEM ("justified with G-d") by chumra (legalism), [i.e., legal justification] by chukim of the Torah, are estranged from Moshiach, you at that point fall from the Chen v’Chesed Hashem.
5 For we by the Ruach Hakodesh eagerly await by emunah that for which we have tikvah, the Tzidkat Hashem (DANIEL 9:24).
6 For in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua neither bris milah is of any force nor the lack of it,
but emunah working through ahavah (agape).
7 You [Goyim] were running well: who hindered you from being persuaded by HaEmes?
8 This persuasion is not of the One calling you.
9 A little chametz leavens all habatzek (the dough, T.N. see Pesach Haggadah).
10 I have bitachon, (confidence) in you in Adoneinu that you will think nothing other, but the one troubling you will bear the judgment, whoever he may be.

Galatians 5 (CLV)
1 For freedom Christ frees us! Stand firm, then, and be not again enthralled with the yoke of slavery."

What is Messiah freeing us from? Is it YHWH's Law?

Where in scripture can we find that YHWH's law is slavery?

(CLV) Ja 1:25
Now he who peers into the perfect law, that of freedom, and abides, not becoming a forgetful listener, but a doer of the work, this one will be happy in his doing.

That doesn't sound like slavery.

What does Paul say about the law?

(CLV) Ro 7:12
So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good.

What might this bondage be?

Let's look at this letter in context. After all, it was written to be read as a letter, not a sound byte.

CLV) Ga 2:4
Yet, it was because of the false brethren who were smuggled in, whoa came in by the way to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they shall be enslaving us-

Ahh! I see. We're back to the Pharisees, and the traditions of men.
Paul on the Law: Galatians 2

(CLV) Ga 4:3
Thus we also, when we were minors, were enslaved under the elements of the world.Paul on the Law: Galatians 4

Ah yes, and the elements of the world. That's in opposition to the Law of YHWH
The word "again" in that verse, settles it. The Galatians weren't Torah observant before Paul, so they couldn't return to the Torah, if they didn't come from it.

Clearly again, Paul did not abolish YHWH's Law.

2 Lo! I, Paul, am saying to you that if you should be circumcising, Christ will benefit you nothing." 3 Now I am attesting again to every man who is circumcising, that he is a debtor to do the whole law."

Again, in context to the Pharisees. Paul is reminding the Galatians that if you are to be saved by the law; you must keep all of the law perfectly.

4 Exempted from Christ were you who are being justified in law. You fall out of grace.

Is Paul saying that by keeping YHWH's law through faith that we fall from grace? Of course not!

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

5 For we, in spirit, are awaiting the expectation of righteousness by faith."

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision is availing anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith, operating through love."

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 15:10
If ever you should be keeping My precepts, you will be remaining in My love, according as I have kept the precepts of My Father and am remaining in His love.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

7 You raced ideally! Who hinders you not to be persuaded by the truth? 8 This persuasion is not of Him Who is calling you. 9 A little leaven is leavening the whole kneading. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that in nothing you will be disposed otherwise. Now he who is disturbing you shall be bearing his judgment, whosoever he may be." 11 Now I, brethren, if I am still heralding circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? Consequently the snare of the cross of Christ has been nullified." 12 Would that those who are raising you to insurrection struck themselves off also! 13 For you were called for freedom, brethren, only use not the freedom for an incentive to the flesh, but through love be slaving for one another." 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself." 15 Now if you are biting and devouring one another, beware that you may not be consumed by one another." 16 Now I am saying, Walk in spirit, and you should under no circumstances be consummating the lust of the flesh." 17 For the flesh is lusting against the spirit, yet the spirit against the flesh. Now these are opposing one another, lest you should be doing whatever you may want."

Lawlessness

Is the Spirit of YHWH in opposition to the Law of YHWH?

Of course not.

Verse 5 just stated that in the spirit we are awaiting righteousness, that is obedience to the law.

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

18 Now, if you are led by spirit, you are not still under law."

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

Which law do you suppose you are not under, when led by the Ruach HaKodesh?

(CLV) Ezk 36:26
I will give you a new heart, And a new spirit will I bestow within you, And I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh, And I will give you a heart of flesh.

(CLV) Ezk 36:27
My spirit shall I bestow within you, And I will make it that you shall walk in My statutes and observe My ordinances, And you will obey them.

If you are of the spirit you aren't under the law; as you aren't under sin. You're obedient to the law.

This was covered Here: Paul on the Law: Galatians 4

Romans 7
14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

19 Now apparent are the works of the flesh, which are adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness, 20 idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects, 21 envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God."

Because they continued breaking YHWH's law; therefore they were under the law. They were slaves of sin. They were in the flesh.

22 Now the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 meekness, self-control: against such things there is no law." 24 Now those of Christ Jesus crucify the flesh together with its passions, and lusts." 25 If we may be living in spirit, in spirit we may be observing the elements also." 26 We may not become vainglorious, challenging one another, envying another."

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
1 Timothy 1:
12 I thank Messiah Yeshua our Lord, who has strengthened me, because
He considered me faithful, appointing me to service.
13 Even though I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man.
Yet I was shown mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief,
14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed with the faith and love that are
in Messiah Yeshua.
15 Trustworthy is the saying and deserving of complete acceptance:
Messiah Yeshua came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am foremost.
[He was a chief sinner, though blameless by The Law!]
16 Yet for this reason I was shown mercy—so that in me as the foremost,
Messiah Yeshua might demonstrate His complete patience, as an example
for those about to put their trust in Him for eternal life.

The Torah is just as valid today; as it was in the day of Moses if not more so.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is not longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

What is sin? Sin is transgression of YHWH's perfect Torah.

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without =pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not |infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

Heaven and earth have not passed.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

Victor in Christ · Aug 22, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Mt 12:43

We test spirits by his Torah.

Deuteronomy 13

The spirit of truth will testify of Christ. False Prophets and teachers will even perform miracles (claim to have this or that power), a revolt against the word of God is always present as fashions, customs, etc, will change. We never should wait to see if a heresy comes to full flower, we should nip it in the bud and stop it from growing. If its not biblical, put that tree to the axe.

This is not only for the OT era [Torah], its in the NT also......continous process.

god bless

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

Victor in Christ said:
This is not only for the OT era [Torah], its in the NT also......continous process.

We should understand that the Torah is not the Covenant. The Covenant is the agreement. The Torah are terms of the Covenant. In order to be in Covenant; we must agree to the terms.

HARK! · Aug 22, 2020

pinacled said:
Sheep know the voice of their Shepherd and will harken to no other.

The sheep will follow their Master in his instructions. Our master's instructions are his Father's instructions.

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

The Torah are the Father's instructions.

Hebrew word study: Torah, 'instruction, teaching, guidance, law' - Biblical Hebrew made easy

visionary · Aug 22, 2020

pinacled said:
Yes

explain

Victor in Christ · Aug 22, 2020

HARK! said:
We should understand that the Torah is not the Covenant. The Covenant is the agreement. The Torah are terms of the Covenant. In order to be in Covenant; we must agree to the terms.

Your language confuses me. The OLD covenant foreshadows the NEW covenant. The NEW convent is better. If you're confined/in bondage to the old, you will go astray. Put your faith in the NEW covenant through Christ, don't be tempted back into your old ways.

Both covenants are interlinked, but the old is only a foreshadow of what was to come - ie- Christ's sacrifice for our sins and his offer of redemption.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Chapter 3 goes into detail about rejecting the coming of our Lord .

Deeper than the Surface

Jehovah Tsidkenu

walking with the Shekinah

שמע

Jehovah Tsidkenu

Well-Known Member

Jehovah Tsidkenu

שמע

walking with the Shekinah

שמע

שמע

walking with the Shekinah

Well-Known Member

שמע

שמע

שמע

Jehovah Tsidkenu

שמע

שמע

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jehovah Tsidkenu

Similar threads