Baptism, faith, spirit.

Religiot

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Yes. Both were prophesies one about baptism and one about the second resurrection, the day of judgement.
I'm sorry to say this, but I must: how you are interpreting scripture will make any further discussion with you perfectly unfruitful.

Unless you have a learned question, I must digress. I'm sorry.

I wish you well.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I've been a Christian for most of my life, and I must say, that I've never heard that interpretation before.

Would you please elaborate?

This is actually the pretty common, historic position taken by most of the historic churches. Seeing as St. John's Apocalypse is full of graphic imagery and figurative language, the meaning of much of its contents have always been--at the very best--difficult. However, many exegetes have noticed that throughout the general consensus of Scripture the resurrection of the dead is a singular event, it is a resurrection of all the dead, of the righteous and the wicked; which occurs at Christ's Parousia, where He returns in glory as judge of the living and the dead.

It is only here in the Apocalypse that we see a "first resurrection" and a "second resurrection". As such many Christian exegetes throughout history have looked at the way the Scriptures talk about Baptism, whereby we read that we are raised with Christ to newness of life.

E.g.

"In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised Him from the dead." - Colossians 2:11-12

That is, by the mystery of God's grace we have, even right now, become partakers of Christ's resurrection life, share in His resurrection, and are joined to Him in His resurrection life and power. This is ours now, as a gift, received through faith. Thus we have been mystically raised with Christ through our baptism, and this gift of God's grace is both for us here and now, and also points us toward our hope of the future resurrection of the body, when Christ returns, and God makes all things new.

Thus one of the more common views in the Church has historically been that the first resurrection in the Apocalypse refers to Baptism, while the second resurrection refers to the General Resurrection, i.e. the resurrection of the body. By the first resurrection we have shared in Christ and Christ's reign even now--as He lives and reigns at the right hand of the Father having received all power and authority--and when He returns, in glory, as judge of the living and the dead, we shall be raised bodily and share in that perfect beatific vision and life of the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Religiot

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This is actually the pretty common, historic position taken by most of the historic churches. Seeing as St. John's Apocalypse is full of graphic imagery and figurative language, the meaning of much of its contents have always been--at the very best--difficult. However, many exegetes have noticed that throughout the general consensus of Scripture the resurrection of the dead is a singular event, it is a resurrection of all the dead, of the righteous and the wicked; which occurs at Christ's Parousia, where He returns in glory as judge of the living and the dead.

It is only here in the Apocalypse that we see a "first resurrection" and a "second resurrection". As such many Christian exegetes throughout history have looked at the way the Scriptures talk about Baptism, whereby we read that we are raised with Christ to newness of life.

E.g.

"In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised Him from the dead." - Colossians 2:11-12

That is, by the mystery of God's grace we have, even right now, become partakers of Christ's resurrection life, share in His resurrection, and are joined to Him in His resurrection life and power. This is ours now, as a gift, received through faith. Thus we have been mystically raised with Christ through our baptism, and this gift of God's grace is both for us here and now, and also points us toward our hope of the future resurrection of the body, when Christ returns, and God makes all things new.

Thus one of the more common views in the Church has historically been that the first resurrection in the Apocalypse refers to Baptism, while the second resurrection refers to the General Resurrection, i.e. the resurrection of the body. By the first resurrection we have shared in Christ and Christ's reign even now--as He lives and reigns at the right hand of the Father having received all power and authority--and when He returns, in glory, as judge of the living and the dead, we shall be raised bodily and share in that perfect beatific vision and life of the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran
Please remember, that this is the first time that I'm hearing this, so without any citation that I can reference, your explanation is just an opinion that I cannot verify.

So if you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate at least a few--well known--citations that prove your assertion.

Thanks in advance.
 
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ViaCrucis

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[the first resurrection] is that by which we rise through baptism. As the apostle says, “If you have been raised with Christ, seek the things which are above.” And again he says, “living as [those who have been brought to life] from the dead.” For sin is death, as the apostle says, “when you were dead through trespasses, and sins.” Therefore, just as the first death is in this life because of sin, so also the first resurrection is in this life through the remission of sins.”– St. Caesarius of Arles, Exposition on the Apocalypse 20.5. Homily 18

Some sources showing the Eastern Orthodox view:

"To see what is the theological meaning of the first and second resurrection we must first consider what is the first and second death. The first death is the separation of man from God, Who is the real life, and the second death is the definitive separation of sinners from God that will occur at the Second Coming of Christ. Thus, the first resurrection is the communion of man with God, as long as man lives in this world within the Church, and the second resurrection is the communion of man with God at His Second Coming, when his body also will be resurrected." - The First and Second Resurrection | MYSTAGOGY

"Therefore, it should be clearly known that the first resurrection is the baptismal resurrection and the second resurrection is that which we await on the last day, the last resurrection. Furthermore, it should also be clear that the first death is the natural one or the separation of the soul from the body, while the second death is the eternal torment [of hell] (Mt. 18:8), so called due to its opposition to the blessed life of eternity (Jn. 5:24). It should also be clear that this second death has no power over those made worthy of the first resurrection. Likewise, from this it follows that the first death, from which not even the saints are delivered, is the natural or bodily death." - On the Thousand Year Reign (Chiliasm): Ch. 16 from The Truth of Our Faith

Some sources showing the Lutheran view:

"In fact, the key text to understanding what is meant by the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20 comes from another one of the Apostle John’s writings, from John 5:24-29. When looking at these verses, notice how John records the words of our Savior, which clearly speak of two resurrections. The first resurrection (vv.24-25) is the awakening of a dead heart of sin (Ephesians 2:1) to a living heart of faith in Jesus. This resurrection is conversion, which is why Jesus speaks of it happening right now, in present time. The second resurrection (vv.28-29) is the physical resurrection of the dead on Judgment Day, which is why Jesus speaks of it as a future event that the second death (eternal damnation) “has no power” over the “blessed” who trust in Christ!" - How to Respond to… Millenialism | Immanuel Lutheran Church

"You were buried with Christ in baptism, not just symbolically as you died in baptism, not just symbolically, but really and truly, otherwise baptism would not have the power that St. Paul is discussing here. As Christ was buried and rose again by the Father’s glory you too have been raised to life by the Father’s glory. As Jesus says in John chapter three, 6“Anything born of the flesh is flesh, but anything born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Don’t be surprised when I tell you, you must all be born from above.” Our souls that were dead in sin have now been raised to life in Christ. We have been born of the Spirit, born of God from above. This is the first resurrection referred to in Revelation. Yet there is more! Even as Christ rose bodily from the tomb never to die again, in the likeness of Christ resurrection we also will be raised bodily to eternal life on the Last Day. We are children of God now in baptism. Why would be want to go on sinning?" - #DailyDevotion Baptism Is Your Second Death & First Resurrection

And if one looks at Roman Catholic, Reformed, and many other sources one will likewise find "the first resurrection" being attached to our conversion/baptism.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Albion

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I want to get baptised but my church is still closed due to covid.
You should contact a pastor/minister and have a talk with him. There are several different ways to proceed with what you are asking about, but the first thing to do is give someone in charge a call.
 
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7xlightray

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A person I used to know said she was 'born again'. She said that this had to happen, to be saved you have to be born again.
She said that the holy spirit came into her and this was quite an experience.Baptism with water isn't enough, you must believe and have the second baptism of the holy spirit... It says this in the Bible too.
What was it like to get the second baptism?
Yes, your friend is correct, that is God planting His word/seed/Christ in ones heart (Galatians 4:6), planting His own in the earth, born of the spirit, God is spirit.

* I say this, because there are those that teach, which they call "The honeymoon," goes away after awhile, and others who don't even believe in this. But that experience, that power of the holy spirit, we need to continue in, because He can also take away (Revelation 2:5; 3:2, 16, 19). We want to gain, gain is better, no value can one put on this! It is not something that should fade away, but get stronger (and more stronger at other times, as needed. And there is correction that hurts, but learn to get through those quickly), being properly trained by the holy spirit (Hebrews 12:11 (whole chapter good read for context)), believing God, the truth. And it starts the moment you ask for, and receive, the holy spirit. You will just need to learn to remain, learning to live and walk, in the spirit; believing God (Hebrews 11:7). Not false doctrine (Luke 11:52).

I accepted Christ as my savior, then one week later, while completely by my self, asked God for the baptism of His spirit (which was a very clean powerful feeling (that went through me from head to toe), and extremely joyous, that lasted over a year (it did not matter if bad things happen to me, ya couldn't bring me down), until eight months later I started going to church, and received false doctrine, then the scriptures started to become very confusing, but being a infant in Christ I did not know what doctrines they were, and that period of "The honeymoon" did go away after awhile, which took me on a long journey (which I received other temporary fillings of the spirit, until I received the correct doctrine), which is why I warn you about, because it should not go away after awhile (Romans 14:17)), then over a year later, had water baptism.

2 Timothy 3
5 Having a form of godliness [eusébeia: piety towards God, godliness, devotion, they are religious or reverent],
but denying the power [G1411: dyýnamis] thereof [the four verses before this verse gives more understanding]:
from such turn away.

..why? Because..

2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power [G1411: dyýnamis] hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life [that's now, today]
and godliness [eusébeia: piety towards God, godliness, devotion, they are religious or reverent], through the
knowledge
[epignósis: precise and correct knowledge] of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be
partakers of the divine nature, having escaped [yesterday, or today] the corruption that is in the world through lust [lust for whatever it may be of the things, or ways of the world, even what we think, God tests us (Luke 2:35; Jeremiah 17:10; Matthew 23:26; Hebrews 4:12)].

Colossians 1
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power [G1411: dyýnamis], unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness ["..longsuffering with joyfulness" God is completely content, and in need of nothing];

Ephesians 3
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man [the spirit is His power, His divine nature. And why we need His spirit];

Ephesians 3
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God [the mind of Christ].

Ephesians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power [G1411: dyýnamis] that worketh in us,

John 4
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[then clarifies what He means by spirit.. "God is spirit"..]
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Must receive His spirit (Galatians 5:22; Ephesians 1:13-14)
for a leopard cannot change it's spots (Jeremiah 13:23).
Yes, He may let people change some things about them selves in their own strength, but that pride keeps them in a delusion.

Galatians 5:16,
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [Galatians chapters 3, 4 also good for context].​
 
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