Really? You think God is going to destroy *this*?

mkgal1 said:

I just came across this video of all the wonderful beauty there is in nature.....yet some believe our Creator is going to destroy what He's created. Why would He go through such an extent to create so much beauty.....and then destroy it? And the Bible even states that nature testifies of Him (Psalm 19; Romans 1:20; Psalm 33:5). And also there's the covenant God made with Noah. I just don't understand how that can all be reconciled.

Genesis 8:21 ~
When the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, He said in His heart, “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from his youth. And never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done.
​

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While there is no doubt that the creation bears witness to the existence of Almighty God, the beauty that we presently witness is but a shell of what once was before sin, through Adam, entered into the world and with sin, death, (Rom. 6:23) and so death passed unto all of humanity because of their inherited sinful state from Adam (Rom. 5:12) but death did not stop with man, but has affected all of creation due to the curse that was placed thereon because of Adam and so because of the curse, death, decay and all manner of suffering and pain afflict not only man, but all of creation as well. We are told at least some of the changes that the creation underwent due to the curse in Genesis chapter three and since the fall of man, it has been in a slow but sure state of decline to this day and is destined to pass away as stated in scripture but it is because of the curse that it the creation groans and travails in pain to this day (Rom. 8:18-22)

Sin, death, and the curse are the reasons why we have natural disasters, extinctions, disease, famines, and every kind of wickedness, pain, and suffering that there could be, but none of these things were a part of God's plan for mankind or any part of creation, but rather they are a consequence for man's disobedience, yet the day is coming when all of creation will be redeemed and liberated from the present hardships and evils that afflict it, but the redemption begins with us who are in Christ with first the cleansing of our souls from the sin that would otherwise condemn us, the redemption of our bodies (1 Cor. 15:51-55, 1 Thess. 4:13-18), and afterward, the redemption of all of creation (Rev. 21-22)

However, this is all best understood when the creation account of Genesis is taken, not as allegory, or metaphorically, but as historical fact.

Before sin:

1) No death or suffering.

2) Man and God meet face to face.

3) Perfect harmony between God, man, and nature.

After sin:

1) Separation from God (man can no longer see God face to face in this present world)

2) Spiritual and physical death.

3) Curse upon all of creation because of man's sin which brings all forms of death, suffering, and pain, not just to man, but all of creation.


Redemption (What the death of Christ on the cross and His resurrection mean for us)


1) The redemption of our souls and restored fellowship with God.

2) The redemption of our bodies (our bodies are transformed so that they are no longer sinful, corruptible, or subject to death)

3) Creation is redeemed by being remade anew and God makes His dwelling place among men. Man can now look upon the face of God, just as Adam had before he sinned.

mkgal1 said:

I don't recall a response for the issue of Matthew 5:18 - how the belief that the Bible is referring to material world destruction when "heaven and earth passing" is mentioned but this verse implies heaven and earth have passed away (but we're still here). How is that explained?

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Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

This is talking about the 10 commandments---so they are still binding---and has nothing to do with the return of Jesus at which the earth is destroyed in fire.

mkgal1 said:

I don't recall a response for the issue of Matthew 5:18 - how the belief that the Bible is referring to material world destruction when "heaven and earth passing" is mentioned but this verse implies heaven and earth have passed away (but we're still here). How is that explained?

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Have you even answered the question, "What does the Law fulfil"? We are still here after 7000 years. Nothing has changed material wise.

mkgal1 said:

Matthew 5:18 doesn't say it's referring to just the 10 commandments (and whether that's binding is also debatable).

The Law = the Mosaic Law (see Deuteronomy and Leviticus). Nothing can pass from that Law *until* heaven and earth passes. Well.....the laws in Deuteronomy and Leviticus are gone.

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Believe what you wish --- I am unwatching this thread. Have a good night.

mkgal1 said:

I don't understand what you're asking. Jesus fulfilled the Law....the Law doesn't fulfill anything (that i can think of). The Law points us to Christ ("Law" as meaning the Books of Moses - not just the 10 commandments).

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Paul said the Law was a teacher. What did it teach us? Have all learned from the Law? The verse seems to say the Law will still teach until this earth is exchanged for a new one. The Law is not "completed". This verse does not say, the Law had to be fulfilled by Jesus. This verse points out the Law will keep teaching until the very end.

The law was a figure of the perfect lamb or perfect heifer. The Law never asked for a perfect human or God sacrifice. The faith of Abraham was that God Himself would be the sacrifice instead of Isaac.

No one can live by the Law. That is what the law teaches. We can only live by God’s grace and mercy.

mkgal1 said:

I just came across this video of all the wonderful beauty there is in nature.....yet some believe our Creator is going to destroy what He's created. Why would He go through such an extent to create so much beauty.....and then destroy it? And the Bible even states that nature testifies of Him (Psalm 19; Romans 1:20; Psalm 33:5). And also there's the covenant God made with Noah. I just don't understand how that can all be reconciled.

Genesis 8:21 ~
When the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, He said in His heart, “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from his youth. And never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done.
​

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And that he would actually plant a tree that knowingly would cause him to do so ...

mmksparbud said:

The covenant was with man all living things that He would not destroy by flood again.

Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

This will not be by flood but by fire.

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Yeah, and if you think about it, God could not just wash away 21st century man made toxins, they have to be burned, and it has to be hot. This has to happen before Jesus reigns and the curse is lifted.

mkgal1 said:

So.....in your belief....Jesus wasn't what John said He was? He didn't take away the sin of the world on the Cross? God has to also burn off sin?

Personally....I believe Jesus reigns now.
Daniel prophesied of Jesus's kingdom - recorded in Daniel 7:

Daniel 7:13-14 ~ In my vision in the night I continued to watch, and I saw One like a Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, that the people of every nation and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Acts 1:9-11 ~ And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

​

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Yes, that is where we disagree. Notice in Acts it says Jesus will come back just as He left. In the clouds. Daniel has the Son of Man coming with Clouds. In Rev 1, Jesus says He comes with cluuds and all eyes will see Him, tie this with Mat 24.

The earth must go through a cleansing judgment before He comes with clouds and all eyes see Him. He will then reign on the Earth from Jerusalem.

If words mean what they say, and say what they mean, this is the correct interpretation. Plenty of war now, in fact we are just about to get started.


1The word which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.

3And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4And He will judge between the nations,
And will render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.

mkgal1 said:

Jesus also said this ("see" can also mean "know"):

Luke 17:20 ~ One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, “When will the Kingdom of God come?” Jesus replied, “The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs.​

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Oh boy.

mkgal1 said:

Wait. I just re-read this quote.

Are you asserting that Acts 1:9 (Jesus's ascension) is not what Daniel was referring to when speaking of the Son of Man? And you're basing that on how Acts 1:9 doesn't specifically say Son of Man "coming with clouds"?

I recently discovered this video from the Bible Project....it's short but thorough:

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You can try and re-interpret the whole Bible if you want. Jesus will judge one day on what we teach and hold to. I would hate to be in a Preterist camp, because Jesus Himself is Pre-Mill. He is coming after the great tribulation, and before His 1000 year reign spoken of six times in the book of Revelation. The early Church Fathers were Pre-Mill too.

See and know this:

Mark 13,

14“But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 15“The one who is on the housetop must not go down, or go in to get anything out of his house; 16and the one who is in the field must not turn back to get his coat. 17“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18“But pray that it may not happen in the winter. 19“For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will. 20“Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days. 21“And then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ’; or, ‘Behold, He is there’; do not believe him; 22for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23“But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.



The Return of Christ

24“But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, 25AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26“Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. 27“And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.