What day do you believe is the “Lord's Day” in Revelation 1:10?


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nolidad

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I suspect that the impression that Patmos was this desolate, uninhabited island isn't accurate. As the island had been inhabited for at least three thousand years by John's time, Rome simply apparently liked to use it as a place to exile people.

We shouldn't necessarily assume then that John was in complete isolation. John's stay on Patmos may even have borne the fruit of conversion.

There is no reason to simply assume that St. John wasn't sharing his faith and life together with others, even there in exile.

-CryptoLutheran

And a portion of theat island was isolated as a mining prison for those considered enemies of the state. They had limited freedom and if custom held on Patmos- the Romans would not have allowed the prisoners to co mingle with whatever population of the island (plus they were busy working 12-14 hours a day in the mins)

Macedonia
 
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nolidad

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true.

And Ex 20:11 makes the case that - that act alone makes it binding.

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

so much so that even gentiles are singled out for a blessing as they choose not to profane it.

Isaiah 56:6
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;

Yes foreigners who joined Israel kept teh Sabbath. But as Exodus is a book desribing Gods relationship with Israel and not mankind-

Exodus 31:12-18
King James Version

12 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.


This is the first time we see God command anyone to keep HIS Sabbath! Prior to this we do not even have an implication of anyone keeping the Sabbath.

Now if you can show a verse or set of verses similar to this: then I agree that the Sabbath is for everyone.

But do you do labor on Saturday and profane the Sabbath?

Does your spouse work making meals or cleaning house profaning the Sabbath?

Whiat about all teh stores and movies and ga sstations profaning teh Sabbath?
 
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Nor does my bible say that, but that is the intent of the words in the original.. If John had used the definite article "the" I would agree with you. But He didn't so he was not specifying a day but describing the kind of day day he had the vision!

BTW KJV is my version of choice! but it is not infallible.

The OAO (Original Autograph Only) position is false and cannot be found in Scripture. Plus, nobody knows Biblical Hebrew or Biblical Greek. They are dead languages and men are guessing as to what these languages are really saying. The scholars you use to interpret what you believe to be the Word of God did not live during bible times. James says that God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith. The poor guy is not going to be the fat cat scholar with many years of bible school under his belt. Think. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Did you come to the faith by hearing biblical Greek? The promise in Psalms 12:6-7 is removed in Modern Translations. This is the agenda by the enemy. To attack God's Word and to question it. Psalms 12:6-7 in the KJV gives us the true promise because it is God's Holy Word. The promise is that His words are pure words, and they will endure for all generations. Your view says that His words only existed in the original autographs that we do not have anymore. Thus, you have to figure out what God's Word says in some dead language based on your own limited human reasoning. There is no Word of God that is perfect that you can trust plainly in your own language. Therein lies the problem. Either God preserved His words for this generation today or He failed to keep that promise. I believe God's Word. I don't have to try and piece together what His Word may say or many not say. I am not trying to create my own Bible or what I want to hear. I have God's words perfectly to hold in my hands and I believe them. You can keep seeking if you want.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes foreigners who joined Israel kept teh Sabbath.

The Isaiah 56:6-8 text does not say "who moved to Israel" or "Joined themselves to the nation" but rather "Joined themselves to the LORD" so then we see gentiles in worship services on Sabbath in Acts 13 asking that the gospel be preached to them "the next Sabbath"

So then Isaiah 66:23 says "all mankind" is to come before God and worship" from Sabbath to Sabbath.

Isaiah 56
Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

1. No reference to "just Jews of course"
2. No reference to "Just obedience in the future of course"

keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;

<No reference to "who will some day in future join himself to the Lord">

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join
themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

< no reference to "who in some future day will join" >

7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

This is a "God so loved the WORLD... yes really" kind of statement. Even Christ points that same thing out in the gospels.
 
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buzuxi02

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Well the bible never calls Sunday the Lords Day! Nor did God give the church
The word in Rev1:10 is in the feminine Kyriaki because all days of the week in the Greek language are in the feminine except for Σάββατο which is neuter. Kuryaki or Kyria literally means lady. Unless Jesus was a female, it can only refer to a specific day of the week which is what native Greek speakers in the country of Greece and Cyprus call Sunday. Let's see how scripture does refer to day of the Lord:

1Thess 5:2- Aυτοι γαρ ακριβως οιδατε οτι η ημερα κυριου ως κλεπτης εν νυκτι ουτως ερχεται...

Acts 2:20-20- ο ηλιος μεταστραφησεται εις σκοτος και η σεληνη εις αιμα πριν η ελθειν την ημεραν κυριου την μεγαλην και επιφανη

2Pet 3:10- ηξει δε η ημερα κυριου ως κλεπτης εν νυκτι εν η οι ουρανοι ροιζηδον παρελευσονται στοιχεια δε καυσουμενα λυθησονται και γη και τα εν αυτη εργα κατακαησεται..


Now this is what Rev 1:10 says which is totally different:

10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος.
 
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nolidad

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The OAO (Original Autograph Only) position is false and cannot be found in Scripture. Plus, nobody knows Biblical Hebrew or Biblical Greek.

So it is your contention that whatever generation wishes to add or subtract from the oldest manuscripts we have, you are fine with that? So you have no problem with the JW's New World Translation?

And the fact yu say Hebrew and Greek are dead languages says you know nothing of history and truth!

Israel speaks not Yiddish, but revived the ancient Hebrew language!

Koine Greek has been taught in Bible schools for millenia! If nobody knows the ancinet language we would be unable to have an English bible unless you believe like the Mormons in that someone got a special pair of eyeglasses and translated the ancient languages that way!
 
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nolidad

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The Isaiah 56:6-8 text does not say "who moved to Israel" or "Joined themselves to the nation" but rather "Joined themselves to the LORD" so then we see gentiles in worship services on Sabbath in Acts 13 asking that the gospel be preached to them "the next Sabbath"

So then Isaiah 66:23 says "all mankind" is to come before God and worship" from Sabbath to Sabbath.

Yes in the new heaven and earth (eternity)

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Pulling a portion of a thought out of its context to try to make some mandatory rule for man now is improper!

Again I ask: do you profane the Sabbath NOW by working on Saturday?

Does your wife work by making meals and thus profane the Sabbath?

Are you okay with all teh stores and gas stations and police and fire and hospitals open and bustling on the Sabbath?
 
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nolidad

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The word in Rev1:10 is in the feminine Kyriaki because all days of the week in the Greek language are in the feminine except for Σάββατο which is neuter. Kuryaki or Kyria literally means lady. Unless Jesus was a female, it can only refer to a specific day of the week which is what native Greek speakers in the country of Greece and Cyprus call Sunday. Let's see how scripture does refer to day of the Lord:

1Thess 5:2- Aυτοι γαρ ακριβως οιδατε οτι η ημερα κυριου ως κλεπτης εν νυκτι ουτως ερχεται...

Acts 2:20-20- ο ηλιος μεταστραφησεται εις σκοτος και η σεληνη εις αιμα πριν η ελθειν την ημεραν κυριου την μεγαλην και επιφανη

2Pet 3:10- ηξει δε η ημερα κυριου ως κλεπτης εν νυκτι εν η οι ουρανοι ροιζηδον παρελευσονται στοιχεια δε καυσουμενα λυθησονται και γη και τα εν αυτη εργα κατακαησεται..


Now this is what Rev 1:10 says which is totally different:

10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος.

Well you make an obvious error.

An adjective that is feminine in the dative is simply showing subordination and not gender!

Peter, Acts, and Thess. are speaking of a specific time frame and show that in the construct and the definite article being therein the construct.

also if you are demanding equality with the above verses, then they must be defined as sunday! but as teh adjectiove is describing the day and not specifying the day it is not a specific day of teh week.

Also the term Lords Day as Sunday would not have been something John would have written. He still was Jewish and Sunday would have been the first day of the week as he wrote in his gospel.

So both other writings, and internal construct ( I don't think we need to go into noun declensions and verb endings) simply are showing that John was in the Spirit on a "lordy" kind of day.

Let us remember that the Gospel was written in close time frame to the REvelation. Why would John call Sunday the first day of the week in his gospel and then the Lords day in revelation especially with a construct that doesn't support the adjective describing a specific day??
 
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BobRyan

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Yes in the new heaven and earth (eternity)
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all mankind come to worship before me, saith the Lord. NASB

Yep - in the NEW Earth for all eternity after the cross -- only then will all mankind be Christian only then will all mankind on Earth have chosen as a group to serve the Lord.
 
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buzuxi02

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Let us remember that the Gospel was written in close time frame to the REvelation. Why would John call Sunday the first day of the week in his gospel and then the Lords day in revelation especially with a construct that doesn't support the adjective describing a specific day?

John's gospel does not say first day (Proti hmera) it says 'that day one removed from the sabbath':
John 20:1
20 τη δε μια των σαββατων μαρια η μαγδαληνη ερχεται πρωι σκοτιας ετι ουσης εις το μνημειον και βλεπει τον λιθον ηρμενον εκ του μνημειου

John 20:19:
19 ουσης ουν οψιας τη ημερα εκεινη τη μια των σαββατων και των θυρων κεκλεισμενων οπου ησαν οι μαθηται συνηγμενοι δια τον φοβον των ιουδαιων ηλθεν ο ιησους και εστη εις το μεσον και λεγει αυτοις ειρηνη .

Rev 1:10 is simply proof that the Greek speaking christians had already adopted the word Κυριακή for the first day of the week. Likewise they adopted the wordSabbath for the 7th day and Paraskevi for the 6th day (Greek for preparation). The rest of the days are still based on number Monday(Deutera not the masculine Deutero), Tues (Triti), Wed (Tetarti), Thurs (Pempti)
 
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So it is your contention that whatever generation wishes to add or subtract from the oldest manuscripts we have, you are fine with that?

You are inserting a loaded question that I do not believe. I believe God's Word existed from the originals and was faithfully preserved in copies of its own languages and then it was preserved in the KJV. The only adding and subtracting took place is through the false line of manuscripts (Which can be traced back to Westcott and Hort). Most Modern Translations can be traced back to Westcott and Hort. They were occultists.

You said:
So you have no problem with the JW's New World Translation?

I think you are forgetting that I believe the KJV is the divine and perfect preserved Word of God from the Textus Receptus line.

You said:
And the fact yu say Hebrew and Greek are dead languages says you know nothing of history and truth!

I can say the same for you. Try reading Gipp's Understanding the History of the Bible.

Gipp's Understandable History of the Bible (4th Edition)

You said:
Israel speaks not Yiddish, but revived the ancient Hebrew language!

I was not born again yesterday. Please take note that I said BIBLICAL Hebrew, and not just Hebrew (as it exists today).

You said:
Koine Greek has been taught in Bible schools for millenia! If nobody knows the ancinet language we would be unable to have an English bible

It does not matter how long we humans have studied a dead language. There are always going to be nuances in a language that will have passed away with time. In my opinion, it is arrogance to assume that we know a language without having lived in that culture and speaking and reading it around those who spoke and read it. For example: I thought I could impress my wife (at the time, my fiance) by studying a book on Brazilian Portuguese. The problem is that the things in the book were not always exactly like it said. Certain regions said words differently and I needed to be aware of that fact.

You said:
unless you believe like the Mormons in that someone got a special pair of eyeglasses and translated the ancient languages that way!

Again, this is just a false loaded question to make your position look good. I am strongly against the Mormon religion and other false religions that attempt to change God's Word. In fact, the New World Translation comes from the corrupt line of manuscripts from Westcott and Hort.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I would check out What day is the Sabbath and does it matter? | Sabbath Truth

God plainly stated the Seventh Day is the Holy day. It's written in the Ten Commandants and ironically the only Commandment that starts with Remember, because God knew most would forget or choose to follow mans tradition. Man changed Gods day from Saturday to Sunday (details referenced in the link above). The devil is the one who wants to confuse everyone. It is very important to God to keep the day He requested Holy. The Bible reference the Sabbath and Gods law throughout the Bible over and over. It's not confusing at all and pretty clear. Look in the back of your Bible and read every scripture on Sabbath and the Commandments. Here's just a few.

Proverbs 19:16
He who keeps the commandment keeps his soul, But he who is careless of his ways will die.

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
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parousia70

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Th Lord's Vengeance = The Vengeance of the Lord

The Lord's Mercy = The Mercy of the Lord

The Lords Grace = The Grace of the Lord

The Lord's Patience = The Patience of the Lord

The Lord's Wrath = The Wrath of the Lord

AND

The Lord's Day = The Day of the Lord

The Book of Revelation is nothing less than the apostolic witness of the contemporary, 1st century arrival of the Great Tribulation and Day of the Lord.
 
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nolidad

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23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all mankind come to worship before me, saith the Lord. NASB

Yep - in the NEW Earth for all eternity after the cross -- only then will all mankind be Christian only then will all mankind on Earth have chosen as a group to serve the Lord.

But it hasn't come to pass yet!

So let me ask again:

Do you profane the Sabbath by doing work on Saturdays?

do you require your spouse or other to cook you meals on the Sabbath and thus have them profane the Sabbath?

What is your opinion about all the retail doen on teh Sabbath? do you shop on teh Sabbath and thus tempt employers to profane the Sabbath by making people work to satisfy your shopping needs?
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all mankind come to worship before me, saith the Lord. NASB

Yep - in the NEW Earth for all eternity after the cross -- only then will all mankind be Christian only then will all mankind on Earth have chosen as a group to serve the Lord.

But it hasn't come to pass yet!

1. It shows the Sabbath observed by "all mankind" for all of eternity after the cross. The same one as in Isaiah 66. "from Sabbath to Sabbath" (not just "from New Moon to New Moon")
2. Isaiah 56:6-8 shows how blessing the gentiles for choosing not to profane the Sabbath applies to "my house shall be a house of prayer for all nations". even before the NT age.
3. Acts 13 where gentiles ask for more Gospel preaching to be presented "the next Sabbath" shows how even for those receiving the Gospel - they were meeting from Sabbath to Sabbath.
4. Acts 18:4 in fact "every Sabbath" both gentiles and Jews hearing the Gospel

So now for this thread the question is - where are those sorts of statements found in scripture for the idea that "week day 1 is to be called the Lord's day" or "week day 1 is to be kept holy, or reserved as a day of worship".?

Everyone can worship God any day they choose - but where is the Bible statement about week-day-1 as a day of worship, or called the "Lord's Day" in the way that we see the Bible making all those "Sabbath after Sabbath" gospel preaching and worship statements?

So let me ask again:
Do you profane the Sabbath by doing work on Saturdays?

1. Why would I do that???
2. Even if I coveted once a week --- why would that affect any truth in God's Word?

do you require your spouse or other to cook you meals on the Sabbath and thus have them profane the Sabbath?

1. Why would I do that???
2. Even if I coveted twice a week --- why would that affect any truth in God's Word?

What is your opinion about all the retail doen on teh Sabbath? do you shop on teh Sabbath and thus tempt employers to profane the Sabbath by making people work to satisfy your shopping needs?

1. Why would I do that???
2. Even if I coveted three times a week --- why would that affect any truth in God's Word?

I fully agree with your view that things like Isaiah 58:13 show us what it means for gentiles not profane the Sabbath (goes way beyond cooking)

Isaiah 58:13
13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And
call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,


So now - let's take the extreme form of it --
I could be an atheist and it would not change the Bible.
 
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parousia70

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In Heb 8:6-12 we have a verbatim quote of the New Covenant found in Jer 31 and it is unchanged from its OT form.

IT is applied to the church because as Paul points out in Romans 2 "He is not a Jew who is merely one outwardly" and in Romans 9 "the children of the promise" are counted as the descendants of Abraham.

Yes!, and?.... Seems we are in agreement then, no?
 
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nolidad

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1. It shows the Sabbath observed by "all mankind" for all of eternity after the cross. The same one as in Isaiah 66. "from Sabbath to Sabbath" (not just "from New Moon to New Moon")
2. Isaiah 56:6-8 shows how blessing the gentiles for choosing not to profane the Sabbath applies to "my house shall be a house of prayer for all nations". even before the NT age.
3. Acts 13 where gentiles ask for more Gospel preaching to be presented "the next Sabbath" shows how even for those receiving the Gospel - they were meeting from Sabbath to Sabbath.
4. Acts 18:4 in fact "every Sabbath" both gentiles and Jews hearing the Gospel

So now for this thread the question is - where are those sorts of statements found in scripture for the idea that "week day 1 is to be called the Lord's day" or "week day 1 is to be kept holy, or reserved as a day of worship".?

Everyone can worship God any day they choose - but where is the Bible statement about week-day-1 as a day of worship, or called the "Lord's Day" in the way that we see the Bible making all those "Sabbath after Sabbath" gospel preaching and worship statements?



1. Why would I do that???
2. Even if I coveted once a week --- why would that affect any truth in God's Word?



1. Why would I do that???
2. Even if I coveted twice a week --- why would that affect any truth in God's Word?



1. Why would I do that???
2. Even if I coveted three times a week --- why would that affect any truth in God's Word?

I fully agree with your view that things like Isaiah 58:13 show us what it means for gentiles not profane the Sabbath (goes way beyond cooking)

Isaiah 58:13
13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And
call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,


So now - let's take the extreme form of it --
I could be an atheist and it would not change the Bible.

I don't know why, but do you do work on the Sabbath? It is you calling for us to observe it- are you observing the Sabbath? YOu have not answered yet and I am asking.

I do not observe the Sabbath as issued by God as a sign between Him and Israel for all generations. I workl on Saturdays and my wife as well and I am glad that people are in stores.

Now what do you do with the Sabbath?
 
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BobRyan

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I don't know why, but do you do work on the Sabbath? It is you calling for us to observe it- are you observing the Sabbath? YOu have not answered yet and I am asking.

I apologize if I was unclear.

My intent was to keep saying "no - I don't do that ... and ... why would I do it in the first place?"

So I keep adding that even if I were an atheist it would say nothing about whether the Bible is true or not ... the points made here about what the Bible says or does not say would still remain.

I believe the Bible says that on Sabbath (The Lord's day) No work, no stores, no cooking meals etc. So that is what I choose to do.

Friday is called "the preparation day" in the Bible and that is when all those sorts of things get done.

But my argument is NOT that because I do it - someone else should ... my argument is "what does the Bible say"?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I know no one asked me but it appears @BobRyan and I are of the same denomination.

On Sabbath I go to Church, read the Bible, take nature walks and visit elderly (if I am able). I grew up SDA went away from the church and went back after I started to work on Sabbath, which tore up my soul. I sold that company and with the grace of God, He helped me sell it during COVID, so I could go to church and truly keep the Sabbath. My soul is at peace and look forward to each Sabbath now.
 
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nolidad

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I apologize if I was unclear.

My intent was to keep saying "no - I don't do that ... and ... why would I do it in the first place?"

So I keep adding that even if I were an atheist it would say nothing about whether the Bible is true or not ... the points made here about what the Bible says or does not say would still remain.

I believe the Bible says that on Sabbath (The Lord's day) No work, no stores, no cooking meals etc. So that is what I choose to do.

Friday is called "the preparation day" in the Bible and that is when all those sorts of things get done.

But my argument is NOT that because I do it - someone else should ... my argument is "what does the Bible say"?

I just wish you would look more closely at what the bible says and who it is saying it to!

Once again teh Sabbath was given to Israel. Paul even warned the Gentile believers about observing teh Jewish festivals and Sabbaths.

Gal. 4:
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

When one understands that Paul is railing hotly against the Judiazers and then go back and trace these words, they find out that days mean Sabbath days!

Yes we will all worship God from Sabbath to Sabbath in eternity as Isaiah prophesied but right now there is no demanded day for the church!

And so as I completely understand and am not mistaken;

1. You refrain from all labor on teh Sabbath as a habit.
2. You do not allow your wife to do housework or cook on teh Sabbath as a habit.
3. you believe that stores and fiore depts and police open for business are a sin for they are not observing the Sabbath?

Please just say yes or no.
 
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