Suppose Trump used the emergency powers to postpone the election

Speedwell

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You are correct to a point. There isn't a conservative party in the U.S., there never was one. From the 1860s on it has been the republicans and democrats, with a few insignificant parties.
The republican party is in bad shape. Most republican politicians aren't helping much at all. They are abandoning conservative values, but they are the best option for conservatives right now. Trump is the best option for conservatives right now.
Not only are they abandoning conservative values, they are trashing those who don't, led by Trump himself. One only has to look at how, say, John McCain was treated.
 
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Under One King

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Not only are they abandoning conservative values, they are trashing those who don't, led by Trump himself. One only has to look at how, say, John McCain was treated.
John McCain was not really a conservative.
 
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SimplyMe

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(sigh)
My views are very different from the views of the Left. Naturally, I believe Biden will ruin America, because he stands for all the things I don't and I stand for all the things he doesn't. The same is true for the other side. Trump stands for things they don't and they stand for things Trump doesn't, so naturally they think he is the one ruining America. Maybe we can look back in 20 years or so and see who is right.

That is quite a non-answer. I'm asking specifically, what will Biden do that will "ruin" America? Not what will he do that you don't care for, but specifically, what things will he do that will cause America's ruin -- which is what you seem to be claiming.

I'm not a fan of claiming that "the other side" winning will "ruin America." I've lived through numerous Presidents, from both parties, and have often disagreed, yet I haven't believed those policies would "ruin" America.

I've been against numerous Trump "policies" -- such as his increasing the national debt in a time of the best economy of the last 50 years. In his first two years of office, Trump basically doubled the deficit spending compared to the last couple of years of Obama, adding about a Trillion Dollars in new debt in each new budget he signed -- again, in the best economy of the last 50 years, when tax revenues are at their highest and we should be, at a minimum, lowering the deficit if not paying down the debt.

Of course, with the pandemic we are no longer in the "best economy" and we will current add $3 trillion in new debt for 2020 alone. Now, I don't believe this will ruin America -- it just will require some hard choices and strong leadership in future years to fix (though I must note, with the current atmosphere and seeming lack of strong leadership in either party, I question how this will happen).

In some ways, I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw after the 1976 election -- I was attending school in a very Republican area and personally voted Ford. The cartoon showed a man loading up his station wagon (back before minivans and then SUVs became popular) with the families important possessions, preparing to quickly move his family, and his wife is in the doorway saying something like, "Carter being elected isn't that bad...." Carter, in MHO, was one of our worst presidents but, as bad as he was, he didn't ruin America.

So, again, exactly what is Biden going to do to ruin America?
 
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SimplyMe

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Not only are they abandoning conservative values, they are trashing those who don't, led by Trump himself. One only has to look at how, say, John McCain was treated.

If John McCain doesn't fit your definition, what about George Will? It seems to me it is pretty hard to deny his conservative credentials, or the treatment he has received from Trump's GOP.
 
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Pommer

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You are correct to a point. There isn't a conservative party in the U.S., there never was one. From the 1860s on it has been the republicans and democrats, with a few insignificant parties.
The republican party is in bad shape. Most republican politicians aren't helping much at all. They are abandoning conservative values, but they are the best option for conservatives right now. Trump is the best option for conservatives right now.
“Democratic sympathizers”, oh my!
But seriously, given the current state of affairs, the Parties are likely going to be switching ideologies again.

The Republicans are wedded to President Trump, who is currently calling into question the value of various parts of our government and whether the “administrative state” is effective form of governance.
This is not a “conservative” position, at all.

If this continues the Democrats will find themselves fighting to maintain the status quo, becoming “conservative” by default.
Of course this means that “conservative core values” will necessarily include maintaining the legacies of FDR, JFK/LBJ and BHO.

The Republicans will become “the party of ideas”, aka, liberals.

Enjoy your day!

if you’re truly a Conservative who desires to hold onto Conservative principles you’re going to have to become a Democrat!
 
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Hans Blaster

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When it reaches 270, they will have neutralized the Electoral College, barring a Supreme Court decision that rules against it. If Biden wins, Ruth Bader Ginsburg will retire and Biden will nominate someone to replace her on the Court who will be the 5th vote for the NPV.

That's not how constitutional change works.
 
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Yttrium

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I wasn't clear enough. Although the electors are chosen by the states, it is their votes in the Electoral College that determines the president.

But by this proposed National Popular Vote scheme, the states circumvent the usual process of the College by requiring their electors to vote for the winner of the popular vote regardless of how the election went in their own states.

What do you mean by "the usual process"? The Constitution allows the states to choose their electors however they want. The votes from the states contribute to the overall popular vote, so they still have value.

So far, 18 (?) states have signed on to it by action of their legislatures and they account for over 190 electoral votes that would be given to the candidate who gets the most popular votes nationwide, regardless of who won any of those states.

When it reaches 270, they will have neutralized the Electoral College, barring a Supreme Court decision that rules against it.

It hardly neutralizes the Electoral College, since electors are still chosen, and they still vote for President. And at any time, states could change their minds and do something different.

If Biden wins, Ruth Bader Ginsburg will retire and Biden will nominate someone to replace her on the Court who will be the 5th vote for the NPV.

Eh. I'm a centrist. Trump got in a couple good picks, I have no problem with Biden getting a pick for balance.
 
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Yttrium

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John McCain was not really a conservative.


How do you figure?

I'm beginning to get the feeling that it's you who is not a conservative.

I agree that McCain wasn't really a conservative. He sure tried hard to look like a conservative when he ran for president, but that doesn't mesh with his wishy washy voting record in the Senate, as far as I can tell.
 
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Speedwell

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I agree that McCain wasn't really a conservative. He sure tried hard to look like a conservative when he ran for president, but that doesn't mesh with his wishy washy voting record in the Senate, as far as I can tell.
Do you have anything specific in mind?
 
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TLK Valentine

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stevil

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"The question isn't whether Trump has legal authority to move Election Day and thereby extend his presidency—he doesn't—but a different question: what happens if he just declares that he *does* have this power? And what if he can do so with a false *veneer* of legal legitimacy?"
And so Seth Abramson walks us through such a scenario.

Would you vote in November anyway?
Maybe it goes through the courts and appeals system, just like his taxes and almost four years later (sometime after the 2024 election) the supreme court will be ready to make a call on whether the 2020 election can be delayed.
 
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Yttrium

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This site analyzed his voting record and came to a somewhat different conclusion.

John McCain, former Senator for Arizona - GovTrack.us

What was your criteria?

Well, by my standards, I'd say that the first box is liberal, the next is moderate left, the next centrist, the next moderate right, and the next conservative. That would put McCain in the moderate right category. I don't see how that site would label it offhand.
 
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Albion

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What do you mean by "the usual process"?
The winner of the popular vote in any state elects a slate of electors. Then these people customarily vote in convention 100% for their party's nominee. So the winner of the popular vote in each state (even if the vote was close) gets all that state's electoral votes. It sometimes happens, then, that the winner of the popular vote nationally does not win a majority of the Electoral College votes.

It hardly neutralizes the Electoral College, since electors are still chosen, and they still vote for President.
But not necessarily for the winner of the popular vote in their respective states.

For example, if Biden won Ohio by a hair, under the current system he would get all the state's Electoral Votes, but if Trump won the popular vote nationwide while losing Ohio, the Democratic Party's electors for Ohio would be legally obligated to cast all their votes for Trump.
 
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Yttrium

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The winner of the popular vote in any state elects a slate of electors. Then these people customarily vote in convention 100% for their party's nominee. So the winner of the popular vote in each state (even if the vote was close) gets all that state's electoral votes. It sometimes happens, then, that the winner of the popular vote nationally does not win a majority of the Electoral College votes.

Yes, it's been popular for states to do it that way. However, there's no constitutional requirement for them to do it that way. They could just as easily assign electors based on the percentages of the popular vote within the state, or by the winner of each voting district, or whatever. They could even just ignore the popular vote altogether, and have the legislature or governor pick the electors, but that would raise the wrath of the voters.
 
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