Credit Trump?

JohnDB

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Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.
 

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Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.
"all the ills in the world"?

Please. No one thinks that. I can't imagine trump has much of an influence in any problems they have in Vietnam, or Burundi, or Peru, or the Netherlands. I can't imagine that Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer do either.
 
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Zoii

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Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.
I can only speak as a Non-USA citizen observer.
In the 3 1/2 years of Trump being in power, he has withdrawn the USA's influence in the world. It is, in Australia's estimation, very much a diminished country and China has stepped into the vacuum. This is because:
It has pulled out of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty of 1987
The Paris agreement of 2015
The trans-Pacific partnership of 2016
The South Korean Trade alliance
NAFTA organisation of 1994
The Singapore agreement
UN Human Rights Council of 1945
Iran Nuclear deal
WHO

It is threatening to pull out of NATO and also the WTO
It has abandoned long-standing trade partnerships and instead slapped trade tariffs on its allies.

ALL of these agreements were put in place but the USA, and thus breaking them all in 3 short years, makes the USA seem isolated and unreliable.

Domestically, since Trump came into office:
Unemployment as high as it was in the great depression
The US dollar has weakened significantly
Trade activity has fallen

He has proven incapable of managing a pandemic crisis with the USA having by far the greatest levels of infections and deaths. Even on a per capita basis, the USA fairs worse than most developing nations.

My point is mainly that in 3 1/2 years, he has managed to destroy US credibility.
 
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JohnDB

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I can only speak as a Non-USA citizen observer.
In the 3 1/2 years of Trump being in power, he has withdrawn the USA's influence in the world. It is, in Australia's estimation, very much a diminished country and China has stepped into the vacuum. This is because:
It has pulled out of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty of 1987
The Paris agreement of 2015
The trans-Pacific partnership of 2016
The South Korean Trade alliance
NAFTA organisation of 1994
The Singapore agreement
UN Human Rights Council of 1945
Iran Nuclear deal
WHO

It is threatening to pull out of NATO and also the WTO
It has abandoned long-standing trade partnerships and instead slapped trade tariffs on its allies.

ALL of these agreements were put in place but the USA, and thus breaking them all in 3 short years, makes the USA seem isolated and unreliable.

Domestically, since Trump came into office:
Unemployment as high as it was in the great depression
The US dollar has weakened significantly
Trade activity has fallen

He has proven incapable of managing a pandemic crisis with the USA having by far the greatest levels of infections and deaths. Even on a per capita basis, the USA fairs worse than most developing nations.

My point is mainly that in 3 1/2 years, he has managed to destroy US credibility.

Ummm
Most of all of these things are the pervue of Congress, not the President. He can Influence but those things that you mentioned are on the shoulders of the career Politicians I mentioned above.

I hate to burst your bubble on this.

Trump didn't actually do these things.

Except for the weakened dollar...which we consider a good thing because it makes exports go up.
 
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cow451

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Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.
The logic is Trump’s job performance.
 
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SimplyMe

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Ummm
Most of all of these things are the pervue of Congress, not the President. He can Influence but those things that you mentioned are on the shoulders of the career Politicians I mentioned above.

I hate to burst your bubble on this.

Trump didn't actually do these things.

Except for the weakened dollar...which we consider a good thing because it makes exports go up.

Since when has foreign policy been made by Congress? When did Congress remove the US from WHO, the Paris Accords, the Iran treaty, etc? When did Congress pass trade tariffs, or threaten to pull the US out of NATO? And when did Congress downplay the pandemic, get rid of the "pandemic playbook," or disband the pandemic response team?

Actually, it was very much Trump that did all these things, typically by Executive Order -- in many cases because even his Republican controlled Congress wouldn't go along with him.
 
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Zoii

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Most of all of these things are the pervue of Congress, not the President. He can Influence but those things that you mentioned are on the shoulders of the career Politicians I mentioned above.

I hate to burst your bubble on this.

Trump didn't actually do these things.

Except for the weakened dollar...which we consider a good thing because it makes exports go up.
You're not bursting my bubble at all. He's your president and if you believe he is the best person you could find to lead your country then...so be it.

It is a fact though, that all those decisions to break away from US generated accords occurred under his presidency with his support - indeed he drove the decisions.

And re you're weakened dollar being good for exports - that's a true statement - Except the US reported exports were down so...

Anyway, you obviously like him. Where I live we just see the US as being a whole lot weaker and a very unreliable partner since Trump came to power.
 
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JohnDB

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You're not bursting my bubble at all. He's your president and if you believe he is the best person you could find to lead your country then...so be it.

It is a fact though, that all those decisions to break away from US generated accords occurred under his presidency with his support - indeed he drove the decisions.

And re you're weakened dollar being good for exports - that's a true statement - Except the US reported exports were down so...

Anyway, you obviously like him. Where I live we just see the US as being a whole lot weaker and a very unreliable partner since Trump came to power.

Not really a fan of Trump's....but then I've known of him for a lot longer than most. When he was divorcing his first wife.

I know who he is better than most presidents.

And I really don't favor either political party. Neither has been all that great in my opinion.
And I'm just shocked at all the rhetoric around him. He is just one guy...⅓ of our Government. Sure, he is a point person...but he is very limited.
Any executive order can be instantly blocked or stopped or reversed by Congress or the Courts.
Apparently those who have spent decades in Congress haven't even mentioned those things. And some of those "peace accords" were instituted by the previous President and Congress but then the other parties (nations) absolutely did none of the requisite actions to keep them. It's foolhardy to keep yourself bound by such agreements when the other side is preparing for war.

Some of the things Trump has done have traditionally been things the Democrats usually want and bring the ire of Republicans...but nobody seems to acknowledge that.
The wall along the Southern Border was promoted by Clinton but the Democrats now hate it is one such example.
Clinton and Obama both wanted to modify our agreement with China because both seen that it was being abused by China...but they did nothing. Bush certainly didn't do anything with it.

Where Trump isn't "my guy"...I really can't fault him for the things that he has done the way everyone else seems to want to. I think that it's rather odd to how the Republicans seem to rally behind him too just because of the "R" behind his name...he certainly hasn't behaved like one. Not one of the things Republicans usually do has he maintained. He hasn't done a "clean sweep" of DC and most of the people there are leftovers from Obama's team. (Very uncharacteristic)
I remember that the Clinton's fired even non-political positions and filled them with cronies...but Trump has kept a lot of political and non political people... until the day they move to cross him personally for party Politics...then he sees fit to replace them. And then everyone seems to have a fit over it.
This latest post office fiasco is just one example. Makes just about everyone foam at the mouth. (Except me)
Last weekend his address talking about executive orders to assist us with relief for pandemic slammed both days of the aisle...he doesn't seem to be much of a fan of either side either. And for that his esteem rose in my eyes.
Of course he was filled with self-aggrandizing rhetoric...but its to be expected. He is playing the role of politician.
 
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jardiniere

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Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.

Hyperbole doesn't actually strengthen your argument. People are most often taken seriously when they avoid exaggerations and quality-focused adjectives. State facts, then your opinion on what they mean to you, and you have a stronger base for people to consider your arguments seriously.
 
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DaisyDay

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Not really a fan of Trump's....but then I've known of him for a lot longer than most. When he was divorcing his first wife.
I've known of him longer than that; however you write uncritically, very much like a fan of his. In what way, exactly, are you not?

I know who he is better than most presidents.
That's a confusing sentence - it reads that you know better than most presidents who he is. But never mind.

<snip>
Any executive order can be instantly blocked or stopped or reversed by Congress or the Courts.
Instantly? That is simply contrary to fact. First, "the Courts" don't act on their own; there would have to be a legal basis for "the Courts" to even consider hearing it - someone with standing would have to sue. Then there would probably be appeals from the Executive side. It would be months if now years to overturn. A divided Congress is unlikely to "instantly" do anything.

Apparently those who have spent decades in Congress haven't even mentioned those things.
Huh? That's a bit vague...
And some of those "peace accords" were instituted by the previous President and Congress but then the other parties (nations) absolutely did none of the requisite actions to keep them. It's foolhardy to keep yourself bound by such agreements when the other side is preparing for war.
Of course those "peace accords" were instituted by the previous president and the one before him (then ratified by Congress), but saying that the other nations did nothing is, again, contrary to fact. Which nation are you saying was preparing for war? It was not Iran is that is what you're implying - it had complied with the terms of the deal; Donald unilaterally violated it.

Some of the things Trump has done have traditionally been things the Democrats usually want and bring the ire of Republicans...but nobody seems to acknowledge that.
The wall along the Southern Border was promoted by Clinton but the Democrats now hate it is one such example.
That's a half truth at best. Democrats, contrary to all the claims that they support "open borders" have usually called for a secure border, with fencing as appropriate which is not the same as a "big, beautiful wall" going coast to coast. I find it hard to believe that you are unaware of this.
Clinton and Obama both wanted to modify our agreement with China because both seen that it was being abused by China...but they did nothing. Bush certainly didn't do anything with it.

Where Trump isn't "my guy"...[^_^ ^_^] I really can't fault him for the things that he has done the way everyone else seems to want to. I think that it's rather odd to how the Republicans seem to rally behind him too just because of the "R" behind his name...he certainly hasn't behaved like one. Not one of the things Republicans usually do has he maintained. He hasn't done a "clean sweep" of DC and most of the people there are leftovers from Obama's team. (Very uncharacteristic)
That is, again, not true unless you are talking about career civil service people who aren't on anyone's team - they work for the government. Donald is forbidden by law from dismissing such employees on a partisan basis. That has not stopped him from trying by putting ill-qualified people in charge of them and sidelining those who don't pass the loyalty test.

I remember that the Clinton's fired even non-political positions and filled them with cronies...but Trump has kept a lot of political and non political people... until the day they move to cross him personally for party Politics...then he sees fit to replace them. And then everyone seems to have a fit over it.
Unfortunately, to disagree with Donald is to cross him. Remember poor Jeff Sessions who rightfully recused himself from involvement with the Russian investigation because that would mean investigating himself? Donald never forgave him for upholding the law.
This latest post office fiasco is just one example. Makes just about everyone foam at the mouth. (Except me)
Which leads to the question: why are you okay with this appointee with a conflict of interest (millions of dollars investment in a Post Office competitor) dismantling and crippling the Post Office in the run up to the election?
Last weekend his address talking about executive orders to assist us with relief for pandemic slammed both days of the aisle...he doesn't seem to be much of a fan of either side either. And for that his esteem rose in my eyes.
Why? Simply because you are against our form of government?
Of course he was filled with self-aggrandizing rhetoric...but its to be expected. He is playing the role of politician.
He is playing the role of a corrupt, tinpot dictator; sadly, he is doing it well.
 
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JohnDB

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I've known of him longer than that; however you write uncritically, very much like a fan of his. In what way, exactly, are you not?

That's a confusing sentence - it reads that you know better than most presidents who he is. But never mind.

<snip>
Instantly? That is simply contrary to fact. First, "the Courts" don't act on their own; there would have to be a legal basis for "the Courts" to even consider hearing it - someone with standing would have to sue. Then there would probably be appeals from the Executive side. It would be months if now years to overturn. A divided Congress is unlikely to "instantly" do anything.

Huh? That's a bit vague...
Of course those "peace accords" were instituted by the previous president and the one before him (then ratified by Congress), but saying that the other nations did nothing is, again, contrary to fact. Which nation are you saying was preparing for war? It was not Iran is that is what you're implying - it had complied with the terms of the deal; Donald unilaterally violated it.

That's a half truth at best. Democrats, contrary to all the claims that they support "open borders" have usually called for a secure border, with fencing as appropriate which is not the same as a "big, beautiful wall" going coast to coast. I find it hard to believe that you are unaware of this.
Clinton and Obama both wanted to modify our agreement with China because both seen that it was being abused by China...but they did nothing. Bush certainly didn't do anything with it.


That is, again, not true unless you are talking about career civil service people who aren't on anyone's team - they work for the government. Donald is forbidden by law from dismissing such employees on a partisan basis. That has not stopped him from trying by putting ill-qualified people in charge of them and sidelining those who don't pass the loyalty test.

Unfortunately, to disagree with Donald is to cross him. Remember poor Jeff Sessions who rightfully recused himself from involvement with the Russian investigation because that would mean investigating himself? Donald never forgave him for upholding the law.
Which leads to the question: why are you okay with this appointee with a conflict of interest (millions of dollars investment in a Post Office competitor) dismantling and crippling the Post Office in the run up to the election?
Why? Simply because you are against our form of government?

He is playing the role of a corrupt, tinpot dictator; sadly, he is doing it well.

Oh come on...you are a totally entrenched party line Democrat.
LOL
I was a fan of that little old lady who refused to sell her retirement beach house to Donald and that was what resulted in his bankruptcy. (Amongst a lot of other things)

I knew that he would bounce back...he isn't a propped up guy.
I'm definitely not a fan of his personal morals.
And when he got busted for all the illegal aliens working in his hotel... again I was applauding the agents who busted him for it.

The man is far from perfect...has a lot of moral failings. Not exactly a hero type. He has been described as a woman hater...lol...I think he likes too many of them IMHO.

And in the OP I listed career politicians who have been in office for decades... people who should know how to get things done in Government...they have certainly been there long enough to know how.

The comparison is valid.

You obviously have an agenda.

I'm just saying that for a non-political person he sure has stirred things up and caused everyone to foam at the mouth to become unintelligible.
 
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cow451

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Not really a fan of Trump's....but then I've known of him for a lot longer than most. When he was divorcing his first wife.

I know who he is better than most presidents.

And I really don't favor either political party. Neither has been all that great in my opinion.
And I'm just shocked at all the rhetoric around him. He is just one guy...⅓ of our Government. Sure, he is a point person...but he is very limited.
Any executive order can be instantly blocked or stopped or reversed by Congress or the Courts.
Apparently those who have spent decades in Congress haven't even mentioned those things. And some of those "peace accords" were instituted by the previous President and Congress but then the other parties (nations) absolutely did none of the requisite actions to keep them. It's foolhardy to keep yourself bound by such agreements when the other side is preparing for war.

Some of the things Trump has done have traditionally been things the Democrats usually want and bring the ire of Republicans...but nobody seems to acknowledge that.
The wall along the Southern Border was promoted by Clinton but the Democrats now hate it is one such example.
Clinton and Obama both wanted to modify our agreement with China because both seen that it was being abused by China...but they did nothing. Bush certainly didn't do anything with it.

Where Trump isn't "my guy"...I really can't fault him for the things that he has done the way everyone else seems to want to. I think that it's rather odd to how the Republicans seem to rally behind him too just because of the "R" behind his name...he certainly hasn't behaved like one. Not one of the things Republicans usually do has he maintained. He hasn't done a "clean sweep" of DC and most of the people there are leftovers from Obama's team. (Very uncharacteristic)
I remember that the Clinton's fired even non-political positions and filled them with cronies...but Trump has kept a lot of political and non political people... until the day they move to cross him personally for party Politics...then he sees fit to replace them. And then everyone seems to have a fit over it.
This latest post office fiasco is just one example. Makes just about everyone foam at the mouth. (Except me)
Last weekend his address talking about executive orders to assist us with relief for pandemic slammed both days of the aisle...he doesn't seem to be much of a fan of either side either. And for that his esteem rose in my eyes.
Of course he was filled with self-aggrandizing rhetoric...but its to be expected. He is playing the role of politician.
I have "known" him even longer, when he was still with wife #1. Then he found Marla Maples, a local girl. I know a couple of family friends who have told me that, "Trump was the same &^%%$# then as he appears to be now".

IOW, he has been lying, cheating, stealing and self-dealing all his adult life. Any move he makes is 100% for the Trump brand. Period. He is not to be trusted to ever act in anyone's interest but his own. That is why I do not consider him a racist. He simply doesn't care whether someone is White, Brown, Black, American or none of the above. It matters only what any individual can do to advance Donald Trump.

If Trump thought it would get him more votes, he would pivot and authorize, by Executive Order, that all mail be delivered by a french-speaking chauffeur from a Mercedes Benz.
 
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Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.

I would never give any President that much credit....much less the current one.
 
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JohnDB

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IOW, he has been lying, cheating, stealing and self-dealing all his adult life. Any move he makes is 100% for the Trump brand. Period. He is not to be trusted to ever act in anyone's interest but his own. That is why I do not consider him a racist. He simply doesn't care whether someone is White, Brown, Black, American or none of the above. It matters only what any individual can do to advance Donald Trump.

And I would tend to agree with a lot of this...but not exactly with the same motivations... similar but not the same. He does what he thinks that he can legitimately and legally get away with to further his goals regardless of the fallout of those who speak ill of him. And usually has an "in your face monkey_____" comment to go with it to further infuriate his opponents. (Not statesman like in any fashion)

But for some reason he has taken this job seriously and with some respect.
Which has been a pleasant surprise in his conduct during the presidencey. He has kept most of his campaign promises (except for the golf) during his tenure as if he considered them as mandates from a board of directors. No other president has done that...oh they may get one or two accomplished but the laundry list of the first term becomes the promised goal of the second term... usually with more platitudes about "if Congress...." But no real results.
And that summary can legitimately characterize the last four Presidents we've had except for Trump.

I guess that my personal feelings about someone are separate from judging the job they have done. Which is what we need more of. I don't want a beer buddy in the WH...I need someone to do what's best for us. (Even if I would count the silverware after he was gone...Bill and Hillary coming to mind)
 
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DaisyDay

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Oh come on...you are a totally entrenched party line Democrat.
You're mistaken - I'm a liberal registered Independent.

I was a fan of that little old lady who refused to sell her retirement beach house to Donald and that was what resulted in his bankruptcy. (Amongst a lot of other things)
Vera Coking? Yes, she refused to sell but that is not what led to that particular bankruptcy, one of six, count 'em six, bankruptcies.

I knew that he would bounce back...he isn't a propped up guy.
He was propped up by his daddy's millions and his political connections.
I'm definitely not a fan of his personal morals.
And when he got busted for all the illegal aliens working in his hotel... again I was applauding the agents who busted him for it.
Busted him? He simply denied all responsibility and got away with it, no consequences.

The man is far from perfect...has a lot of moral failings. Not exactly a hero type. He has been described as a woman hater...lol...I think he likes too many of them IMHO.
He may like their lady parts, but aside from Ivanka, he doesn't seem to like them as people, to say the least.

And in the OP I listed career politicians who have been in office for decades... people who should know how to get things done in Government...they have certainly been there long enough to know how.
They do know how and they do get some things done, however, our government was designed to be a group endeavor to keep power out of the hands of despots.

The comparison is valid.
What comparison?

You obviously have an agenda.
Why yes, yes I do - good government for the benefit of its citizens.

I'm just saying that for a non-political person he sure has stirred things up and caused everyone to foam at the mouth to become unintelligible.
That's trite and untrue. Btw, do you consider yourself to be part of "everyone" or are you the lone exception? ^_^
 
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cow451

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And I would tend to agree with a lot of this...but not exactly with the same motivations... similar but not the same. He does what he thinks that he can legitimately and legally get away with to further his goals regardless of the fallout of those who speak ill of him. And usually has an "in your face monkey_____" comment to go with it to further infuriate his opponents. (Not statesman like in any fashion)

But for some reason he has taken this job seriously and with some respect.
Which has been a pleasant surprise in his conduct during the presidencey. He has kept most of his campaign promises (except for the golf) during his tenure as if he considered them as mandates from a board of directors. No other president has done that...oh they may get one or two accomplished but the laundry list of the first term becomes the promised goal of the second term... usually with more platitudes about "if Congress...." But no real results.
And that summary can legitimately characterize the last four Presidents we've had except for Trump.

I guess that my personal feelings about someone are separate from judging the job they have done. Which is what we need more of. I don't want a beer buddy in the WH...I need someone to do what's best for us. (Even if I would count the silverware after he was gone...Bill and Hillary coming to mind)
I want a leader and this one ain’t it. He is serious about the job... of self-aggrandizement and self-dealing. It is only by accident if any of his efforts help anyone outside himself.
 
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Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

Not all of them... just the ones he caused and/or made worse.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.

Remember where the buck stops.
 
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