Why did The Archangel Michael contend with the devil about the body of Moses in Jude 1:9 ? (Repost)

Running2win said:

I see you have a low regard of Scripture. Thanks for the clarification of your true beliefs.

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In the New Testament letter of St Jude we again find St Michael, now called an archangel, battling against the devil: “But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, ‘the Lord rebuke you’” (Jude 9). St Jude alludes here to an ancient Jewish tradition of a dispute between St Michael and Satan over the body of Moses, mentioned in an apocryphal book on the assumption of Moses (cf. Origen, De Principiis III.2.2). According to the tradition, St Michael concealed the tomb of Moses but Satan revealed its location in an effort to entice the Jewish people to worship Moses as a hero.

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

• Jude 1:9


So, What / Why was the reason for the dispute ?

What was it about ?

.

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• "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

• "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
• Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
• But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."

• "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
• And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
• Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel."

• "Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him."

• "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts."

• "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

• "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
• And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

• "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."

• "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

• "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.
• The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

• "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."

• "When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
• And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born."

• "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men."

• "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

• "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
• For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them."

• "He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
• This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me; him shall ye hear."

• "And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
• But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end."

• "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

• "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
• And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."

• "And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

• "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
• In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
• Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
• Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
• Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
• By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

• "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

• "Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,
• Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel."

• "And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
• Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves."

• "Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
• But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel."

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
• And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
• But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet."

• "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
• He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

TribulationSigns said:

I also like to clarify some misunderstood among some theology that Satan, the devil, was a created being or an intelligent being (an entire study on itself).

No scripture says the Devil is an intelligent created being, Scripture is clear the Devil is an evil spirit. The language of Christ contending with the Devil about the body of Moses has nothing to do with Moses' physical body, which is a pile of dust in the earth. It has to do with Old Covenant Israel and their lack of understanding of the law of Moses being a schoolteacher. To think it speaks literally of Moses body is a theater of the absurd. What has Satan to do with the literal body of Moses?

Deuteronomy 34:5-6

• "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
• And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."

The physical body of Moses has no significance to the spirit of evil or anyone else, it is a pile of dust in the ground. The body of Moses in view is the Old Covenant, which in Christ Jesus has decayed and waxed old just as surely as the Body of Moses did (Hebrews 8:13) to make way for the new. The body of Moses in dispute by Christ is Old Covenant Israel, which Christ contended no man could be saved by his own righteousness in keeping the law. Justification by the law is what was in dispute in Israel.

Acts 13:39

• "And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

When Christ contended with the adversaries it was about their ideas about the Covenant of Israel and the law of justification. The body of Moses is the house of Moses the same as the body of Christ is the house of Christ. Moses representing the Old Covenant law through sacrifices and offerings, which they didn't understand saved no one. All of God's chosen were actually saved by the body of Christ, in whom the law of Moses was satisfied/fulfilled. The Old Testament angels (messengers) of the kingdom didn't understand that justification was not now or ever had been, by law of Moses, but by the righteousness in faith of Christ.

Hebrews 10:5-10

• "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
• In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
• Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
• Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
• Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
• By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

This is what was always in dispute in Israel of Christ's adversaries. It wasn't through the law of Moses that the children of Israel were saved, but the body and deliverance of Moses merely prefigured the body and deliverance of Christ, the true who would come to satisfy the law in a New Covenant with Israel.

Romans 8:3

• "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

The law of Moses could not save Israel, but the law of Christ could. The Old Covenant house of Israel is passed away, and the body of Christ refers to the New Covenant House of Israel established upon better promises.

Christians should ask themselves, "Why would Michael (Christ) dispute with the Devil about the LITERAL body of Moses?" What's to be disputed? The whole idea makes no sense because man's literal body of flesh is but ashes or dust. And as for the Spiritual body of Moses, the Devil has no authority, sway or control over. For him to dispute that would be ludicrous. Of course there has been much conjecture, speculations and personal opinions in the church on the subject, but none of the guesses based solidly on the Bible alone. The significance of Moses’ body is that the Jews disputed with Christ about the methodology of righteousness, the nature of the kingdom and the purpose of the law. They could not understand the Old Covenant versus the New, or that the law was dead in the New Covenant kingdom of Christ. They didn't understand that only in Christ's house, in Christ's body, is Israel actually set free from captivity and able to enter into the promised land. This was also prefigured in Moses death (law) when the children of Israel physically entered into the physical land promised them. As a type of Christ it could only be after the death of Moses "signifying" the move from law to grace, as He was was a portrait of Christ.

Joshua 1:1-2

• "Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,
• Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel."

Likewise, we are dead to the law, and thus are free in the body of Christ to enter into the Spiritual promised land of Israel. The Devil disputed this in the Priests, Scribe, Pharisees and rulers of the kingdom were vexed by this teaching, and the messengers of the Kingdom rejected this and were summarily cast out.

Luke 19:45-46

• "And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
• Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Christ's words are pointing us back to the prophecy of Jeremiah concerning the rebellion of the messengers of the house of Israel.

Jeremiah 7:11-12

• "Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
• But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel."

These are the messengers of the kingdom of heaven that were cast down to the earth. The adversary that persecuted the woman with child was working within the King who sought to kill the Baby Jesus. These are those moved of the Devil to who dispute and contend with Christ about the body of Moses (the Old Covenant congregation) concerning righteousness, the kingdom, Israel and their Messiah. The Stone that the builders rejected is become head of the corner because the builders were cast out and the kingdom restored and given to another. It had nothing to do with a Physical Temple being destroyed and rebuilt in 3 days. Likewise, this has nothing whatsoever to do with a physical body of Moses which had long ago returned to the dust. I believe it refers to the entire Old Covenant Mosaic liturgical system that has ended and the dispute with and rejection of the Christ that told them these things.

Matthew 21:42-46

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
• And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
• But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet."

Indeed He did speak of them as messengers of the Kingdom of heaven that disputed with and opposed Him. Indeed He spoke of how they would be cast out of the kingdom and it be given to the Gentiles who would bring forth the fruit thereof. Christ did speak on how their ideas about the law of Moses, the physical land, righteousness, physical Kingdom on earth and a Messiah that would reign on earth in Physical Israel, was without Biblical validation. The law of Moses never prophesied any of these things, their dispute with Him about these things notwithstanding.

One might then ask, why do we read that the Lord did not bring a railing accusation against the adversary, but said, "The Lord rebuke you" (Jude 9). This is because Christ came as the suffering Servant and Savior, not the judge. This confirmed by Christ Himself in John chapter 12.

John 12:47

• "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
• He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

He that rejected Christ and that would not receive His words were those with the Devil disputing the truth. The word of God He had Spoken is what judges the adversary. The word of God that they rejected because they had the spirit of antichrist to oppose Him about the house or body of Moses.

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

*** I accidentally posted this in the wrong section, so I posted it again here. ***


Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

• Jude 1:9


So, What / Why was the reason for the dispute ?

What was it about ?

.

Click to expand...

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

• Jude 1:9

So, What / Why was the reason for the dispute ?

What was it about ?

.

Click to expand...

mmksparbud said:

Moses was resurrected and taken to heaven. This is why he appears along with Elijah at the transfiguration. Moses was not allowed to enter into the promised land--Canaan---God had something better in mind for him---the real promised land, with Him.

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Dkh587 said:

This is speculation. Where do you read that Moses was resurrected?

The Transfiguration was a vision - Moses and Elijah were not really there.

Matthew 17:9
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.[/QUO

Dkh587 said:

This is speculation. Where do you read that Moses was resurrected?

The Transfiguration was a vision - Moses and Elijah were not really there.

Matthew 17:9
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

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Yeah, body is still hidden, IMO. Moses soul in in Heaven. Souls have form and can think and act, as shown in Rev 6. Just no resurrection body yet.

9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

6And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day.

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Interesting.

It makes me think of The Aerial Toll Houses :

Your View on The Aerial Toll Houses (Orthodox Only Please)

Aerial Toll-Houses - OrthodoxWiki

Aerial toll house - Wikipedia


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mmksparbud said:

Totally disagree. Lucifer, and all angels were created beings.
Eze_28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze_28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

You can go on and write another book on how this is not about Satan, it won't matter. He was created, and Jesus---who created all things, created him.

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

*** I accidentally posted this in the wrong section, so I posted it again here. ***


Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

• Jude 1:9


So, What / Why was the reason for the dispute ?

What was it about ?

.

Click to expand...

Chris V++ said:

If the verse was an allusion to Aerial Toll Houses wouldn't the dispute be more about the spirit of Moses and not his physical body? Or is it believed that a body needed by the accusing demons for some reason?

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

*** I accidentally posted this in the wrong section, so I posted it again here. ***


Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

• Jude 1:9


So, What / Why was the reason for the dispute ?

What was it about ?

.

Click to expand...

TribulationSigns said:

Ezekiel 28-13 is taking about Adam who was created until iniquity found in him. The name Lucifer is a name representing man’s spiritually fall. Satan is a spirit of fallen man - a spirit of disobedience. I know it’s hard to unlearn the church tradition of “fallen angels.”

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

*** I accidentally posted this in the wrong section, so I posted it again here. ***


Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

• Jude 1:9


So, What / Why was the reason for the dispute ?

What was it about ?

.

Click to expand...