Has Yeshua/Jesus Christ Returned?

Cis.jd · Aug 14, 2020

throughfireytrial said:
No, I am not stating my view; I am citing God's view via citing passages.

It's your view, you are tagging God to it and want to believe it's his views just to give cred to your argument. If the scriptures itself says "no one knows except the Father", then it should be obvious that the disciples/writers probably did not know, even if their writing was (as you believe) not of their own reasoning.

throughfireytrial said:
You simply cannot reconcile your views with the two passages I cited. God, the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible and the Bible is the Word and the Word is Jesus. God does not err. The Peter passages says above all you must understand that it was not of human will (and thus associated errors.)

Your passages don't really help your argument. No one denies the Word to be God breathed, but it can be misinterpreted, mistranslated, and it still requires thinking at the same time. Additionally, just because it has content in where the writer portrays the message based on his literary capabilities, beliefs, cultural understanding, and also the cultural understanding of his target audience doesn't mean it becomes less God breathed.

throughfiierytrial · Aug 14, 2020

Cis.jd said:
It's your view, you are tagging God to it and want to believe it's his views just to give cred to your argument. If the scriptures itself says "no one knows except the Father", then it should be obvious that the disciples/writers probably did not know, even if their writing was (as you believe) not of their own reasoning.

Your passages don't really help your argument. No one denies the Word to be God breathed, but it can be misinterpreted, mistranslated, and it still requires thinking at the same time. Additionally, just because it has content in where the writer portrays the message based on his literary capabilities, beliefs, cultural understanding, and also the cultural understanding of his target audience doesn't mean it becomes less God breathed.

The words, no one knows but the Father, are obviously referring to the last day. That is a fact cited by God via the Scriptures which record the words of Jesus the Christ. The events which will take place immediately before the end are also citation of fact...God breathed facts.
You are the one using a poor humanly conceived (in my view) interpretation and propping it up with what you believe to be introduced human error on part of the Apostles and Evangelists. This contradicts the very heart and spirit of the Timothy passage...
II Timothy 3:16-17:
and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,...

There cannot be unity or a means for unity if you use your caveat.

Cis.jd · Aug 14, 2020

throughfireytrial said:
The words, no one knows but the Father, are obviously referring to the last day. That is a fact cited by God via the Scriptures which record the words of Jesus the Christ. The events which will take place immediately before the end are also citation of fact...God breathed facts.

Yeah, but if the apostles knew the when Jesus would come back, then the whole verse in Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36 is invalidated.

You are the one using a poor humanly conceived (in my view) interpretation and propping it up with what you believe to be introduced human error on part of the Apostles and Evangelists. This contradicts the very heart and spirit of the Timothy passage...

Again, scripture is God's Word but there is content written by the writers understanding, knowledge, beliefs, and/or cultural understanding. This is shown in Luke 1:3. Not only does this verse show Luke had only 1 target audience in mind, but the information was passed down to him, and that he investigated everything in order to write this gospel.

On your reference of II Tim (and to revisit the 2 passages that you say I can't reconcile with). Paul's epistles where written before the gospels, so he obviously wasn't considering the NT (because it wasn't made yet). That isn't saying the NT isn't God breathed, just pointing out the things you don't know and did not consider, showing that it is you who is having poor humanly conceived interpretations.

throughfiierytrial · Aug 15, 2020

Cis.jd said:
Yeah, but if the apostles knew the when Jesus would come back, then the whole verse in Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36 is invalidated.

Again, scripture is God's Word but there is content written by the writers understanding, knowledge, beliefs, and/or cultural understanding. This is shown in Luke 1:3. Not only does this verse show Luke had only 1 target audience in mind, but the information was passed down to him, and that he investigated everything in order to write this gospel.

On your reference of II Tim (and to revisit the 2 passages that you say I can't reconcile with). Paul's epistles where written before the gospels, there was no Matt-John published yet so obviously he isn't the NT in that statement (because it wasn't made yet). That isn't saying the NT isn't God breathed but me just pointing out the things you don't know and did not consider, showing that it is you who is having poor humanly conceived interpretations.

There are no dates given within Scripture and I believe that is God's intention...it is the content that counts.
As for the Apostles and Evangelists of the Bible being subject to their own humanity in their writing there is much to be pointed out via Scripture.
Peter and John were ordinary Galilean fishermen up and until Pentecost when they were filled with the Holy Spirit and this was noted...
Acts 4:8-13:
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

II Corinthians 5:16-17:
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come. The old has gone, the new is here!

I Peter 1:10-12:
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
(You see here the nature of prophecy by the Holy Spirit...it is not by the will, culture or intellect of a man.)
Also, remember Daniel's reaction to his visitations of the Holy Spirit in his dreams...he fell ill.

Look, you are making things way too difficult...just read the material and believe it...knowing God's power...and other passages will be revealed to you to make things clearer. Your method would have one searching for Truth by reading almost all books known to mankind. And I'm not ignorant.

Cis.jd · Aug 15, 2020

throughfireytrial said:
There are no dates given within Scripture and I believe that is God's intention...it is the content that counts.

"Context matters" on what, you already acknowledge that God intended to keep dates discrete?

As for the Apostles and Evangelists of the Bible being subject to their own humanity in their writing there is much to be pointed out via Scripture.
Peter and John were ordinary Galilean fishermen up and until Pentecost when they were filled with the Holy Spirit and this was noted...
Acts 4:8-13:
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is
II Corinthians 5:16-17:

This has nothing to do with anything I've posted.

I Peter 1:10-12:

Click to expand...

(You see here the nature of prophecy by the Holy Spirit...it is not by the will, culture or intellect of a man.)
Also, remember Daniel's reaction to his visitations of the Holy Spirit in his dreams...he fell ill.

So then why did Luke say he had to do research in Luke 1:3 (you've ignored this)?

1st Peter is talking about the OT prophesies of Christ. This whole passage is him writing about why Jesus is the messiah, this does not dispute my arguments that certain content in the Bible is still as to what I described about the writers in the previous post. Come on.

mlepfitjw · Aug 15, 2020

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

After speaking to His disciples about their generation that shall not pass away until all the things Yeshua spoke about were to be fulfilled. It seems like Yeshua is speaking on something else afterwards.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Heaven and earth shall pass away : We are going to die one day and the skys and earth are going to pass away before our eyes. Though Yeshua, and the words He has spoken are going to continue onward even after our death. We can see evidence of these words being true because we have the holy bible.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

No man knows the hour or day they are going to die and the sky and earth will pass away, not even the angels in heaven, but God knows the day a man/woman/child will pass away, just like God knows when a sparrow dies, and how many hairs a person has on their heads.

The next several verses are about death and how oblivious people were in the days of Noah, then Yeshua talks about how one shall be taken and one shall be left. One passes away from the earth and the heavens pass away for them at death, but a person is still left until their time comes.

Therefore it seems to me these texts relate to death, and how in death we will end up all at our own individual death with our spirit going on-ward to God.

As a human being who makes mistakes, it's noted that my view could be wrong.

@throughfireytrial; @Cis.jd : This is my understanding

Colossians 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. 15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Yeshua, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

throughfiierytrial · Aug 15, 2020

Cis.jd said:
"Context matters" on what, you already acknowledge that God intended to keep dates discrete?

This has nothing to do with anything I've posted.

So then why did Luke say he had to do research in Luke 1:3 (you've ignored this)?

1st Peter is talking about the OT prophesies of Christ. This whole passage is him writing about why Jesus is the messiah, this does not dispute my arguments that certain content in the Bible is still as to what I described about the writers in the previous post. Come on.

Getting too argumentative...I'm out now, while standing by the evidence I presented.

Randy777 · Aug 15, 2020

Agallagher said:
Do you trust what the Apostles said about Yeshua Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Yeshua Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.

If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Yeshua Christ, should we trust anything that they said?

If Yeshua Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?

I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false.

James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near). 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?

Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Yeshua Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Yeshua Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)

35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[h] Who will come?

1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Yeshua Christ is the will of God).

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.

1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Yeshua's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?

1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)

Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed. Or if your reading glasses are right near-by and you grab them, they are at hand.

Is there any place in the bible where you can find the phrase 'and this is also for them at a later time, or in the future'?

Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then?

Or do you think that Yeshua Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?

NO
He must remain at the Fathers side until His enemies are made a footstool for His feet. I think its clear Gods enemies are still loose in this world.

Peter addressed soon.
Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

The Lord coming in the 1st century is not a possible answer to any question asked.

Eloy Craft · Aug 15, 2020

Agallagher said:
Do you trust what the Apostles said about Yeshua Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Yeshua Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.

If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Yeshua Christ, should we trust anything that they said?

If Yeshua Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?

When a prophetic vision is received it doesn't come with a timeline.In fact it all feels right now. You read Jesus say often when describing something future He then say's "now is" That's because eternal reality is now. All that has happened, is happening and will happen is contained in the eternal moment which has no beginning and no end. The Apostles didn't know how long really at first. They understood the sequence of events but experienced them as happening in the moment. The end of time events felt right around the corner to them. Because the prophetic spirit infuses truth from eternity all time is experienced as in the moment. Yet the time it will take is quite unknown to them. They eventually came to understand that phenomenon.

I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false.

James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near). 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?

Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Yeshua Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Yeshua Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)

35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[h] Who will come?

Even in heaven the Lord is "coming " That's because the awe of revelation is never exhausted. The lord will always be revealed anew. Even in heaven or better yet especially in heaven. I love that. The mystery of God is never exhausted. The Lord is eternally coming again.

1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Yeshua Christ is the will of God).

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.

1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Yeshua's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?

According to the author "the Chief Shepherd.

1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)

Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed. Or if your reading glasses are right near-by and you grab them, they are at hand.

Is there any place in the bible where you can find the phrase 'and this is also for them at a later time, or in the future'?

Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then?

Or do you think that Yeshua Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?

There are passages that speak of the future.
Peter II
waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set ablaze and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire?

Jesus said it wasn't for us to know times and seasons. Even He didn't, only the Father knows that.
The reason they wrote as if the end was near is because when they received their prophetic knowledge it felt like it was unfolding right then. It all ends in Christ so in Christ it was all happening in the eternal moment that is now.

John 4:23
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him.

John 5:25
Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Contenders Edge · Aug 15, 2020

Agallagher said:
Do you trust what the Apostles said about Yeshua Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Yeshua Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.

If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Yeshua Christ, should we trust anything that they said?

If Yeshua Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?

I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false.

James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near). 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?

Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Yeshua Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Yeshua Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)

35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[h] Who will come?

1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Yeshua Christ is the will of God).

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.

1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Yeshua's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?

1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)

Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed. Or if your reading glasses are right near-by and you grab them, they are at hand.

Is there any place in the bible where you can find the phrase 'and this is also for them at a later time, or in the future'?

Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then?

Or do you think that Yeshua Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?

Just as it was incumbent upon the Apostolic generation to teach the soon return of the Lord, so it must be with every generation for it is written that we know not the day nor the hour of the Lord's return. He could have just as easily returned in their day as in any generation, but the Apostle Peter was aware of the possibility that Christ might not return in his day which is why he said:

"be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. That the Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Pet. 3:8-9) If the return of Christ was to take place in their day, the words of Peter in that particular passage would be meaningless.

But if the return of Christ was near in their day, how much more so now and even more so in each succeeding generation?

mlepfitjw · Aug 15, 2020

Hello! There, Your views are totally okay to have I won’t try to argue you with them.

Here is a question:we have scriptures that say in the written letters to certain people’s: ( 1 Peter 1:1-3, Romans 1:1-5, 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 1 Corinthians 1:1-5, Colossians 1:1-5, Ephesians 1:1-5, Philippians 1:1-5, Galatians 1:1-5, ) Saints, Elected, By foreknowledge if God, in a time where they had the letter and read what Paul wrote to the church that was at that time.

Is there anything scripture could point to that tells us that what they was told in the letters they received which was for them, where it was for future generations to come?

Also in my own view of seeing Yeshua already coming back.

@Contenders Edge , liking what you said, it seems impossible to argue with what you said about if it was near in their day how much more for the future generations. I would equate death into the equation because we are all on our way at the day we do not know the time of or the hour but the Father knows.

Victor in Christ · Aug 16, 2020

Agallagher said:
Okay, the way my view is it’s a spiritual one.

I try and respect all views equally too

I agree. Its God divine plan. I tend not to drift into the literal but won't stop anyone if that is what the Lord had told them to do. I believe Christ wants his church to mature spiritually, his individual Saint to mature spiritually.

I've seen in my life and in other Christians the fruits of the Spirit diminish when the scripture is taken literally. I've seen strife, anger, wrath, rebellion against the powers of government take control of lives. It had and still does saddened me. I drifted that way before Christ knocked on the door and i opened up to him. Since that day he's blessed me and my family so much and still is. i promised him back them i will go where you lead me Lord and that vow i hope and pray i will never break. God bless.

Here's a wee hymn which is so meaningful. Enjoy and grow as Christian brother.

Eloy Craft · Aug 16, 2020

Agallagher said:
Is there anything scripture could point to that tells us that what they was told in the letters they received which was for them, where it was for future generations to come?

Luke1:50
His mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.

Luke 1:55
He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
55 according to the promise he made to our ancestors,
to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”

solid_core · Aug 16, 2020

throughfireytrial said:
You are mincing thoughts here...again, what is your view on inspiration of Scripture?
Matthew 24:29...another citation of Jesus' words.

Jesus did not mention that the Universe will be scrolled like a scroll.

Nothing He said is against how the universe works. Sun is darkened and moon is changing to red few times in a generation. So its a visible sign which is not too frequent so that disciples knew that when it happened, the tribulation was near.

My view about the inspiration of Scriptures is probably off topic here. I have no short answer to that, because the Bible is a library of various books variously preserved with various genres and with various textual variants etc.

ViaCrucis · Aug 16, 2020

When He comes nobody is going to have to ask if He came.

If we have to ask the question then no, no He hasn't come.

-CryptoLutheran

Victor in Christ · Aug 16, 2020

This sermon today will answer your question. God bless

starts 26mins in

Christ's New Normal!

1213 · Aug 17, 2020

Agallagher said:
...should we trust anything that they said?
...

Near or soon is very relative word. Sometimes one minute feels like an hour and sometimes a day goes faster than 24 hours. I think it is possible that many things happened already. But, for me the important things in the Bible are the teachings of good and right. I think most of the Bible is not about believing/trusting but about right understanding, wisdom of the just. For example, it is good to love others. Would that change, if they got the time wrong? I don’t think so and I also don’t think they gave wrong date. Jesus himself said:

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

"It isn't for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set within His own authority.
Acts 1:7

I have no doubt that the end of evil comes, but I think we should be thankful that there is still time for people to repent and become righteous.

Love is patient…
1 Cor. 13:4

The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Pet. 3:9

Has Yeshua/Jesus Christ Returned?

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Truth-Lover

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Truth-Lover

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May you be blessed!

Truth-Lover

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Myth only points, Truth happened!

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May you be blessed!

Jehovah Tsidkenu

Myth only points, Truth happened!

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Confessional Lutheran

Jehovah Tsidkenu

Disciple of Jesus

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