Was Mary Always a Virgin?

Well you know what I think.

Mary as Ever-Virgin |

In support of Mary only giving birth to Christ can be found in the Gospel of John,

John 19:26
When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”

If Jesus had other brothers, this would be a very strange situation as it would go against Jewish custom. According to custom if the oldest son died it would fall on the next oldest to take care of the mother. If the son, is the only son, it his responsibility to appoint someone else to care for the mother. Jesus, being the only son of Mary does exactly that when he delegates John to take care of His mother.

The scriptures also prophesy of Mary’s ever-virginity when describing the Temple,

Ezekiel 44:1-2
“The gate will be shut and it will not be opened, and no man shall enter by it, because the Lord God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut.”

The early church saw in this prophecy Mary as the Temple, Christ as the Prince of Peace, and the gate as Mary’s womb through which Christ entered into the world. This interpretation fits the Old Testament customs of dealing with the sacred. If something had been designated as sacred, it was forbidden to it to be used for ordinary purposes. If Joseph was to have sexual relations with Mary after giving birth to God, it would have been a utterly sacrilegious act, showing no understanding for the holiness of God.

The early church continued to call Mary, “virgin”, even after the time when she supposedly would have had more children. It would be very awkward to keep call her virgin and see her children next to her. The Orthodox hold firm to the teachings passed on to them from the Apostles, in accord with the Scriptures, that Mary was a virgin both before and after the birth of Christ.

Why is Mary Considered Ever-Virgin?

The Ever-Virginity of the Mother of God - Theology - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

Scripture and history seem to indicate that Mary had other children, and since no other husband was mentioned those would have been from the union of Mary and Joseph. Scripture indicates that Joseph did not "know" her until after she birthed Jesus, but it didn't elaborate on anything further - nor should it have. It was a God-ordained normal thing to have sexual relations in marriage and to have children result from that union. Only Jesus' birth was outside of the usual course. I find it impressive that this was undertaken with the permission of Mary and that Joseph agreed to the plan after it was explained to him. It's quite the story of love.

Rose2020 said:

How do you figure that when Joseph and Mary were married?

Click to expand...

Doesn't mean he same thing as in modern times, read the links. The Blessed Mother was ever virgin and that comes from the Apostles and the Early Church.

The Bible says Mary and Joseph had marital relations.

It's one of those things that is just not rocket science. We either believe the Bible or we don't.

Matthew 1:24-25 = "When Joseph woke up, he did just as an angel from God commanded and took Mary as his wife. But he didn’t have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son. Joseph called him Jesus."

"If anyone does not properly and truly confess in accord with the holy Fathers, that the holy Mother of God and Ever-Virgin and immaculate Mary in the earliest of the ages conceived of the Holy Spirit without seed, namely, God the Word Himself specifically and truly, who was born of God the Father before all ages, and that she incorruptibly bore [Him], her virginity remaining indestructible even after His birth, let him be anathema."

• Lateran Council under Pope St. Martin I (A.D. 649, Canon 3)


I think there is an Ecumenical Council that says this also but I'm having trouble finding it.

.

Rose2020 said:

Actually no I don't since I don't think you're involved in our other topic.

Click to expand...

She means because she's Catholic and they all believe she remained forever a virgin.

I do not. The bible says Jesus had brothers, and while they could have been from Joseph and a previous wife that died, the bible does not say that. There was no reason for Mary to remain a virgin. It is the presence of Jesus that made her womb Holy---After He was delivered, there was no longer any need for her to remain a virgin. His paternity was no longer in doubt, by the worlds standard---people had to say it was either Joseph's or another man, he married her so no one questioned that it was another man and Jesus was considered the son of Joseph. There was absolutely no sin in Joseph and Mary having relations. Once Jesus was born, there was no sin in Mary having relations with her husband. She was still under the command of God to be fruitful and multiply.
Besides, not having sexual relations was grounds for divorce.

agree; Mary is ever virgin.
If you look in the Scriptures, it's there; some of it not in plain English, but lots in Jewish tradition, metaphors, etc.
The risen Jesus walks through a closed door, which no human being could do, a reference to Mary's "closed door" of her womb.
The Ark of the Covenant which contains the 10 Commandments, formed and written by the hand of God, and is sealed, that no man could touch it or he would die; compared with Mary's womb which contained Jesus, formed by the Holy Spirit.

for further references, you might want to look up Duns Scotus, who famously argued for Mary's own Immaculate Conception. ( and thus she was no ordinary girl).

As for the "brothers", that's a specific rendering of the language of that day which is still carried over into some languages and religions today.

Quakers do this; refer to members of their congregation as "Brother Bob" or Sister Grace." Catholics also call their vowed religious "Mother", "Sister", "Father," "Brother", where no genetic relationship exists.

in some languages even today, children are called brothers and sisters who are actually properly related as cousins by birth. But because the language has no word that translates to the word "cousin" they are biblically referred to as brothers and sisters.

Rose2020 said:

I decided to create a whole new topic for this since it seems like there was a debate in another thread that James and Jesus' other unnamed siblings weren't her biological children.

Click to expand...

Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Jesus was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit who was a virgin before she and Joseph consummated their marriage. Marriage is consummated by having sexual intercourse.

and His birth was prophesied in the OT

Isaiah 7:14

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel (which means God with us). Jesus was fully God and fully man.

Matthew 1:25
New International Version
But he (Joseph) did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

Mary & Joseph had several children (ie .. brothers & sisters) after Jesus birth and everybody on earth has always known how that happens ;o)

Nowhere in His word does it speak of Joseph having children prior to their marriage ... nor any kind of "adoption" going on either before or after the birth of Jesus.

Rose2020 said:

Actually no I don't since I don't think you're involved in our other topic.

Click to expand...

What the Early Church Believed: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary

The Case for Mary’s Perpetual Virginity

eleos1954 said:

Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Jesus was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit who was a virgin before she and Joseph consummated their marriage. Marriage is consummated by having sexual intercourse.

and His birth was prophesied in the OT

Isaiah 7:14

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel (which means God with us). Jesus was fully God and fully man.

Matthew 1:25
New International Version
But he (Joseph) did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

Mary & Joseph had several children (ie .. brothers & sisters) after Jesus birth and everybody on earth has always known how that happens ;o)

Nowhere in His word does it speak of Joseph having children prior to their marriage ... nor any kind of "adoption" going on either before or after the birth of Jesus.

Click to expand...

Yep. This is it! Just cause Mary had other children after Jesus doesn't take away from her forever blessed status in all our eyes.

26Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” 29But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32“He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. 36“And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. 37“For nothing will be impossible with God.” 38And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

he Magnificat

46And Mary said:
“My soul exalts the Lord,

47And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

48“For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave;
For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed.

49“For the Mighty One has done great things for me;
And holy is His name.

50“AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION
TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM.

51“He has done mighty deeds with His arm;
He has scattered those who were proud in the thoughts of their heart.

52“He has brought down rulers from their thrones,
And has exalted those who were humble.

53“HE HAS FILLED THE HUNGRY WITH GOOD THINGS;
And sent away the rich empty-handed.

54“He has given help to Israel His servant,
In remembrance of His mercy,

55As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and his descendants forever.”

56And Mary stayed with her about three months, and then returned to her home.

Rose2020 said:

I guess since I'm not Catholic is the plain and simple reason that I don't believe that she was forever a virgin. (Had a lot of trouble understanding the articles btw.)

Click to expand...

Well, just look at Church history. Sacred Scripture is priceless but it does not hold all knowledge. We must look at Christian history and tradition as well. But I get it. I’m a convert and still learning. I would not be a Catholic today if I had not felt like I hit a brick wall in Protestantism which I still love and respect.

Rose2020 said:

I guess since I'm not Catholic is the plain and simple reason that I don't believe that she was forever a virgin. (Had a lot of trouble understanding the articles btw.)

Click to expand...

Yah, you have to be Catholic or Eastern Orth. to understand their thinking on that.

Rose2020 said:

I guess since I'm not Catholic is the plain and simple reason that I don't believe that she was forever a virgin. (Had a lot of trouble understanding the articles btw.)

Click to expand...

It not just Catholics but a great deal of Christianity. The idea that the Great Theotokos was not ever virgin is a new invention by modern believers who didn't like Traditional Apostolic Christianity. There are Orthodox, Lutherans, and others who know from Apostolic times the the Blessed Mother was ever virgin. You see Mary's womb contained the Holy and She was and is the new Ark, would anything ordinary and not Holy ever go in the Ark of the Covenant