The W

To all;

Sometimes, some people will make up strawman arguments about those who love God and through faith in God's Word seek to keep God's commandments not because they believe they are saved by keeping them but because they love Jesus and God because they have received His free gift of salvation to them and have been born again to love and received God's new covenant promise to love *Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:15; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:6-10.

For example instead of using the correct term "Christian" they try and make God's people who are defined in God's Word as keeping all the commandments of God *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and who love God *John 14:15; Romans 13:8-10 and follow his Word *John 10:26-27 as being different from everyone else by calling them "Sabbatarians" and not referring to them as Christian. Shifting identity was the same practice that the Jews did to God's people in the days of Jesus by calling those who followed Jesus "Christians" even though it was the "christians" who were God's true people and followers. As the scriptures teach there is nothing new under the sun. The Spirit that guided the religious teachers in the days of Jesus who rejected God's Word and rejected the very Messiah (Jesus) their scriptures pointed is still at work and trying to decieve people in rejecting Jesus today by denying his Words that bring life.

These very same religious people seek to follow man made teachings and traditions that put man in the place of God by breaknig God's commandments as shown in the scriptures and very words of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Dear friends no one is following God by knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments. According to God's Word in the new testament, the purpose of God's law is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we knowingly break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.
God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and according to the scriptures if we break it just like any other of the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4.

God knows that many sincere people who are his poeple in all the different churches do not keep his 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments out of "ignorance" because they have been taught false teachings handed down from the "mother of all churches". According to the scriptures Gods' people are in every Church living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them *John 10:16 but the hour is coming and now is that God is calling his people out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24.

ORIGINS OF SUNDAY WORSHIP AND ABOLOSHING GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT


You can search from Genesis to Revelation and will not find a single scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Gods' 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a man made teaching and tradition that the fallen churches are teaching to lead many away from God and his Word. Jesus says those who knowingly follow these teachings are not worshipping God in Matthew 15:3-9.

As already shown through the scriptures, everyone of God's 10 commandments, including God's 4th commandment is repeated through the new testament scriptures even though some will tell you they are not *Hebrews 4:1-9; Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:1-8; (see post # 56; post # 57 and post # 58 for more scripture). Jesus and all the Apostles kept God's 4th commandment even after the death of Jesus as shown in * Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10. God's people all through time to the days of Jesus and the Apostles have always kept God's 4th commandment Sabbath according to the 10 commandments unbroken to this very present day. Yet the religious teachers of today and those who do not believe God's Word will tell us these things are not true as they did in denying the very Words of Jesus and by persecuting all those who believed and followed Gods' Word.

Strawman arguments abound. Some teach but, Gods' 4th commandment Sabbath of the 10 commandments is a "ceremonial law", when it is not a ceremonial law but a moral law as are all of Gods' 10 commandments that show our duty of love to God and mankind. God does not change *Isaiah 40:8 and God's Word does not lie *Romans 3:4, so lets hear the conclusion of this matter..

Hebrews 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

1 John 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Dear friends who should we believe and follow *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29? Are you being taught the truth of Gods' Word?

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 [13], Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. [14], For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God. God's sheep will hear his voice (the Word of God) and follow him while those who choose not to hear will not follow because they are not his sheep according to the scriptures *John 10:26-27. BABYLON has fallen has fallen and has become the habbitation of devils *Revelation 14:8-12; Revelation 17:1-5. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-5; Matthew 15:3:9. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Bible Highlighter said:

As for subtracting from the Torah: In fact, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. These are words from the Bible (i.e. God's Holy Word).

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There are many things you are preaching that are not, in my understanding, in accordance with the Holy Scriptures. Please consider the following.

"Man shall live by Every Word of God". I know how powerful religious doctrines and traditions are given these man made doctrines caused "MANY" Jews to kill their own God while believing they were serving HIM. That kind of deception is nothing to mess around with, and the reason, in my view, that Jesus told us to "beware" of the leaven of the Mainstream Preachers of His time.

You referenced Hebrews 7:12, "a change also in the Law" as support for the modern teaching that the entire Laws of God changed when He became a man. . And you use this verse to promote a religious doctrine that Jesus brought HIS Own Laws, and not the Laws He quoted to the man in Matt. 19. If I were to only read the one sentence in Heb. 7:12, I might also be convinced of this popular religious doctrine.

But when a man actually reads the exchange, they not only find what Law changed, but why it changed.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,)

(What Law was Levi supposed to Administer to the people? Laws God gave Israel, or Laws God gave specifically for the Levite Priests)

what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? What is the "order of Aaron?)

12 For the priesthood being changed,

Jesus, from the tribe of Judah, became the High Priest, Yes? How could that happen given only Levi, by Covenant of God, could partake in the Priesthood??

there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What Law? Love God and Love your neighbor, and all that hang on them? Or the Levitical Priesthood "Law of works" God gave specifically, and exclusively to Levi for the administration of God's Laws, and to provide for the Atonement of sin "Til the Seed should Come".

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; (Not Levi who God gave the priesthood too.) of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The only Law, shown to us here, that Changed was the Priesthood? According to the Law "ADDED because of Transgressions" 430 years after Abraham, Only a Levite could partake of God's Priesthood, or even touch the Arc of the Covenant where the Book of the Law resided. For someone other than a Levite to become the High Priest, it was necessary to change the Law regarding who could partake of it.

Hebrews 7-10 detail this very clearly, speaking only of the Levitical Priesthood and duties of the Sanctuary, and the reason for the animal sacrifices, etc. Heb. 7-10 make no mention of any of the Laws God Gave Israel, only the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf. It was the Levitical Priesthood which changed, not God's Laws for Israel, at least according to "God's Holy Word" that you quoted from.

It seems prudent to consider the whole exchange that the Spirit of the Christ, speaking through the Hebrews Author, AKA "God's Holy Word", shared with us which clearly define what Law changed, and why?

When a man compares this inspired verse, to the Creator of the New Covenant's OWN Promise, defining for us exactly what the New Covenant entails, it further solidifies what "Law Changed".

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Before these days, how were men to hear God's Laws? Was it not exclusively by the Levite Priest, who had sole authority over the Holy Scriptures, given Him from God, by Covenant, on Israel's behalf?

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Before these days, how were sins atoned for? Was the man that sinned not required to take an animal exclusively to a Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for the atonement of sins, to justify this man?

The teaching that the New Covenant was the destruction or replacing of the "torah" is a popular religious doctrine, but as you can see, the "Holy Word of God" doesn't teach this.

How do you reconcile your teaching with what Heb. 7 actually says?

Not all laws by God are applicable for all people. GOD told Noah to make an ark or boat because it was going to flood. We are obviously not under that command or Law. That Law or command was meant for Noah and the people during his time.

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"And God said unto Noah,", Yes, God's Commands for Noah, were for Noah.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

I would ask you a question.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

In your belief, was this the Holy Word's of Same God who Came to Earth in the person of Jesus?

Studyman said:

There are many things you are preaching that are not, in my understanding, in accordance with the Holy Scriptures.

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What many things?

You said:

"Man shall live by Every Word of God". I know how powerful religious doctrines and traditions are given these man made doctrines caused "MANY" Jews to kill their own God while believing they were serving HIM. That kind of deception is nothing to mess around with, and the reason, in my view, that Jesus told us to "beware" of the leaven of the Mainstream Preachers of His time.

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I am not your average Christian who holds to mainstream Christianity who holds to Belief Alone-ism. I believe we are saved by two processes of salvation called Justification, and Sanctification. I believe we must first be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ and in seeking forgiveness of our sins with Him and believing that He died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (i.e. Justification). I believe that a believer then must enter the Sanctification Process (Which is living holy by God's power, which includes love of God and others by: putting away sin, obeying God's New Testament commands, and doing good works, etc.).

You said:

You referenced Hebrews 7:12, "a change also in the Law" as support for the modern teaching that the entire Laws of God changed when He became a man. . And you use this verse to promote a religious doctrine that Jesus brought HIS Own Laws, and not the Laws He quoted to the man in Matt. 19. If I were to only read the one sentence in Heb. 7:12, I might also be convinced of this popular religious doctrine.

But when a man actually reads the exchange, they not only find what Law changed, but why it changed.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,)

(What Law was Levi supposed to Administer to the people? Laws God gave Israel, or Laws God gave specifically for the Levite Priests)

what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? What is the "order of Aaron?)

12 For the priesthood being changed,

Jesus, from the tribe of Judah, became the High Priest, Yes? How could that happen given only Levi, by Covenant of God, could partake in the Priesthood??

there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What Law? Love God and Love your neighbor, and all that hang on them? Or the Levitical Priesthood "Law of works" God gave specifically, and exclusively to Levi for the administration of God's Laws, and to provide for the Atonement of sin "Til the Seed should Come".

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; (Not Levi who God gave the priesthood too.) of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The only Law, shown to us here, that Changed was the Priesthood? According to the Law "ADDED because of Transgressions" 430 years after Abraham, Only a Levite could partake of God's Priesthood, or even touch the Arc of the Covenant where the Book of the Law resided. For someone other than a Levite to become the High Priest, it was necessary to change the Law regarding who could partake of it.

Hebrews 7-10 detail this very clearly, speaking only of the Levitical Priesthood and duties of the Sanctuary, and the reason for the animal sacrifices, etc. Heb. 7-10 make no mention of any of the Laws God Gave Israel, only the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf. It was the Levitical Priesthood which changed, not God's Laws for Israel, at least according to "God's Holy Word" that you quoted from.

It seems prudent to consider the whole exchange that the Spirit of the Christ, speaking through the Hebrews Author, AKA "God's Holy Word", shared with us which clearly define what Law changed, and why?

When a man compares this inspired verse, to the Creator of the New Covenant's OWN Promise, defining for us exactly what the New Covenant entails, it further solidifies what "Law Changed".

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Before these days, how were men to hear God's Laws? Was it not exclusively by the Levite Priest, who had sole authority over the Holy Scriptures, given Him from God, by Covenant, on Israel's behalf?

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Before these days, how were sins atoned for? Was the man that sinned not required to take an animal exclusively to a Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for the atonement of sins, to justify this man?

The teaching that the New Covenant was the destruction or replacing of the "torah" is a popular religious doctrine, but as you can see, the "Holy Word of God" doesn't teach this.

How do you reconcile your teaching with what Heb. 7 actually says?

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"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13) (KJV).

Matthew 26:27-28
27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

The word “new testament” is the equivalent of saying “new covenant.”

When Hebrews 8:13 says, “In that he saith, 'A new covenant',” this is in reference to Jesus' words in Matthew 26:28 when He said said, “new testament.” [i.e. new covenant] when He was with His disciples. This means that when Jesus said these words, according to Hebrews 8:13 soon the first covenant (i.e. the Old Covenant or Old Testament) was ready to vanish away (Which took place the very next day with Christ's death upon the cross). For when Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom, letting us know that the Old Law had ended.

Our Bibles are divided into two sections. One is called, “the Old Testament” and the other is called, “the New Testament.” Hebrews 8:13 says “he has made the first one obsolete” (NLT), or “he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” This is in reference to the entirety of the Old covenant and not just a part of it. Nothing in Hebrews suggests a partial passing away of the Old covenant. Yes, certain laws in the Old have been repeated in the New Covenant, but we go by the New Covenant or New Contract, and not the Old one.

But Jesus said men would prefer the old after having tasted of the new.

“No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.” (Luke 5:39).

Anyways, if Hebrews 8:13 is not convincing, then...

Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):


”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14). What ordinances? Colossians 2:16 mentions Sabbaths, holy days, and dietary laws.

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).

You said:

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

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Again, I am of the belief that we must obey God's commands (i.e. albeit the New Testament commands) in order to be saved. There are Grace commands, and Sanctification commands.

You said:

I would ask you a question.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

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Yes, I imagine thousands in the Old Covenant did exist who kept those unique commands for that covenant. We need to keep the commands of the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant. No place in New Testament commands us to keep the Old Law or the Saturday Sabbath. On the contrary it says the exact opposite.

You said:

In your belief, was this the Holy Word's of Same God who Came to Earth in the person of Jesus?

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Exodus 20:6 was for Israel. The church is not Israel. Just as the command given to Noah was for Noah and his family and not people today.

To everyone:

Certain folks will say that we are not saved by keeping His commandments. But this is not what Jesus taught. Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17) (Which is also confirmed for us in Luke 10:25-28). In fact, the way we show that we love God is to keep His commandments (John 14:15), and Paul said if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (i.e. accursed). Various people will erroneously say that we keep God's commands because we love God. But Jesus says the opposite. For He said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;” (John 15:10).

Select individuals will also say that it is wrong to label certain Christians after what they believe or push. But even Paul called the Galatians as being foolish. Also, names like OSAS Proponent, or Sabbatarian, or Calvinist, etc. are just names to help us to identify what a particular group of Christians believe. There may not always be a negative inference by the mere mention of these types of believers, but they are merely mentioned so as to identify them in what they believe. It's like saying Republican or Democrat. It helps us to identify what kind of beliefs they hold to. Sure, somebody can use the word Republican or Democrat in a derogatory or bad way, but they would have to specifically make that obvious. But mere labeling of the types of different kinds of Christians that are out there helps all of us to identify what they believe and how to have a proper discussion with them with God's Word.

Those believers who are for obeying certain aspects of the Old Law they believe are binding upon the believer will quote NT verses out of context to the whole of Scripture. For there are no NT verses that teach that we must obey the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, and or other holy days. I challenge any believer who thinks we must keep the Sabbath to show me just one direct explicit command in the New Testament that is given to us by Jesus and or His followers to keep the Sabbath. There is none. On the contrary we find in Colossians 2:16 that we are not to allow others to judge us according to Sabbaths, holy days, and dietary laws. Colossians 2:14 in context mentions how Christ blotted out the ordinances that were against us and nailed them to the cross. Meaning, the ordinances such as the Sabbaths holy days, and dietary laws have been blotted out. They are no more. They are nailed to the cross. But Jesus said men will say that the old is better after having tasted of the new (Luke 5:39).

While some do falsely believe that Saturday was changed to Sunday, this is not the case for all believers who hold to the view that we need to obey God as a part of life. There are believers like myself who do not think that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. Yes, Sunday is the day that we gather for fellowship now, and it is not Saturday anymore. Sunday is the Lord's day because of Christ's resurrection. But this does not mean the Saturday Sabbath is changed. The Saturday Sabbath is still the Saturday Sabbath and one can even observe it if they feel compelled to do so. But the fact of the matter is that the Saturday Sabbath is no longer a binding command under the New Covenant. Romans 14 talks about how some regard every day alike. Paul did not condemn those who thought this way. But if the Saturday Sabbath was a must, surely Paul would be speaking against those who believe that every day is a like.

Those who think that we must keep the Saturday Sabbath will quote portions of NT Scripture out of context. They will quote Hebrews 4 in defense of the Sabbath, but they are not reading the entire chapter in context as a whole.

Hebrews 4 is not referring to the Saturday Sabbath, but it is referring to laboring to enter into the rest of Christ Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

Verse 11 refers to how we need to labor to enter into this rest otherwise (lest) that person will fall away by the same example of unbelief.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” (Hebrews 4:16).

Jesus says, “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

Jesus is our Sabbath rest. It is not the Sabbath day anymore.

• “For we which have believed do enter into rest,...” (Hebrews 4:3).
• “Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:” (Acts of the Apostles 2:26).
• “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.” (Matthew 11:29).

“For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.” (Hebrews 4:8).

As for Mark 2:27-28 and Matthew 12:1-8 are mentioned within the time before the temple veil was torn when Christ died upon the cross. Jesus also said to a man leave one's gift at the altar and first reconcile with their brother (Matthew 5:23-24). The gift here is in reference to animal sacrifice. Do we still offer animal sacrifices? No. We see Scripture giving us clues that the laws on animal sacrifices have ended in the New Testament, just as we see verses that give us clues that the Saturday Sabbath has ended in the New Testament or New Covenant (Like Colossians 2:16, and Romans 14:5).

Sometimes believers who believe the Saturday Sabbath is still binding upon us today will say that the Saturday Sabbath is a moral law and not a ceremonial law. A ceremonial law is any law that involves some kind of ceremony or ritual of some kind. Obviously the weekly Sabbath is an observance or ceremony and not an instinctual law of doing good without anyone telling them to do good. For the laws that the Gentiles were able to keep without having the Law would naturally be the Moral Law (See: Romans 2:14).

Moral Law:
(noun):


Source:
Definition of MORAL LAW

To everyone:

Certain people claim you are saved by keeping the law. This is not true as according to the scriptures we are not saved by keeping the law but by God's grace through faith (please see Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:27; Romans 9:32; Romans 13:8-10; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:2-10 etc).

What some do not understand is that "ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD" There is none good no not one! *Romans 3:9-23 We are all sinners in need of God's salvation *Romans 7:9-24.

The purpose of Gods' law (10 commandments) in the new covenant is to give us a knowledge of what sin is to to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25, that we might be born again to receive a new heart to love *John 3:3-7; Hebrews 8:10-12 which is the operation of God in all those who believe his Word.

It is our faith alone in God's Word to do what it says it will do that changes the heart from the inside out to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4 and establishes God's law in those who believe Gods' Word *Romans 3:31.

We are saved by God's grace through faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Our obedience to God's law is the FRUIT of faith that works by love in those who have entered into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 and have been born again to love *1 John 3:4-10.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

.................

GOD’S 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE ALL MORAL LAWS

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828 - Moral
MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness.
Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue.
Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.
2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.
3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.
Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.
Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.
4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.
5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.

................

As posted somewhere else all of God's 10 commandments are the standard of "right doing which is translated as "righteousness" They give us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we knowingly break any one of them *JAMES 4:17; ACTS 17:30-31 according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H6664
RIGHTEOUSNESS; RIGHTEOUS; from צדק; tsedeq (H6663); meaning the right (natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness).

God's Word defines Righteousness or Righteouss as right doing and the moral standard as God's commandments.

PSALMS 119:172 My tongue shall speak of your word for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS <Right Doing - MORAL>

The first four commandments of God's 10 Commandments are our duty of love and right doing towards God and the next six commandments are our duty of love and right doing towards our fellow man. This is why JESUS says on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. Paul is saying the same thing in ROMANS 13:8-10 as does JAMES in JAMES 2:8-12.

God bless

Bible Highlighter said:

What many things?



I am not your average Christian who holds to mainstream Christianity who holds to Belief Alone-ism. I believe we are saved by two processes of salvation called Justification, and Sanctification. I believe we must first be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ and in seeking forgiveness of our sins with Him and believing that He died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (i.e. Justification). I believe that a believer then must enter the Sanctification Process (Which is living holy by God's power, which includes love of God and others by: putting away sin, obeying God's New Testament commands, and doing good works, etc.).

Click to expand...

Yes, HE Became our High Priest. We are justified by His Blood, not "works" of the Levitical Priesthood. The Priesthood changed, not God's definition of sin.

I will ask you, "How were the sins of man atoned for prior to "After those Days" when the Christ Himself said HE would forgive their sins? I hope you will answer.

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13) (KJV).

Click to expand...

I will ask you, "How does the Creator of HIS OWN New Covenant define HIS Own New Covenant?" And do you believe men, who Love Him, should accept HIS Definition, or the definition of "other voices"? Please answer.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

So here is the Creator of the New Covenant, defining for us, HIS NEW Covenant. Lets see what HE says together.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I will ask you, "How were God's Laws administered prior to this?" How did Men learn about God's Laws before this New Covenant? Did His People not receive God's Laws through the Levitical Priesthood? In fact, didn't they have the exclusive power over the "Book of the Law"? Was it possible, before the New Covenant, for regular men like you and I to take the Book of the Law and read it for ourselves? Or was it Priesthood Law that to Hear the Word of God, I must first go find the Levite Priest? I hope you will engage.

So according to the Christ's own definition of HIS Own NEW Covenant, there is absolutely no mention, suggestion, implication or teaching that God's Law defining SIN would change, the only change mentioned in this part of HIS definition of His New Covenant is the Manner in which HIS Laws are administered.

What else "Changed" in His Definition of HIS New Covenant?

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So this begs another question; "How were transgressions of God's Laws forgiven prior to this time?" Please answer this relevant question.

Did God not make a Covenant with Levi to "Minister before Him in the Priests office"? Did this Covenant include sacrificial "Works" for the forgiveness of transgression of God's Laws, AKA "sins", which were to be performed "EXCLUSIVELY" by a Levite Priest?


Once again, there is not even one mention, implication, or even suggestion that God's LAW changed, only the manner in which transgression of these laws are atoned for.

So did this "Priesthood" given by Covenant of God exclusively to Levi, become obsolete? Did it Pass away and a New and Better "ministry", a New Priesthood, replace it? Of course, it was always to be a temporary Law, "till the Seed should come".

So where do the religions of this land find the religious doctrine that God replaced HIS LAWS, and not just the manner in which they are administered (Received) and the manner in which transgression of HIS Law is atoned for (forgiven)?

Matthew 26:27-28
27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

The word “new testament” is the equivalent of saying “new covenant.”

Click to expand...

There is no doubt Jesus ushered in HIS Promised New Covenant, New Testament, when He came to Earth as a man. Like HE says, the sins of men are now atoned for by HIS Own Blood, not the way it used to be, by taking a turtle dove to the Levite Priest who would then sprinkle this blood on the alter for forgiveness of sins.

I am not trying to show that there was not a new Covenant, I am just point out what the New Covenant is, "ACCORDING TO IT'S CREATOR".

When Hebrews 8:13 says, “In that he saith, 'A new covenant',” this is in reference to Jesus' words in Matthew 26:28 when He said said, “new testament.” [i.e. new covenant] when He was with His disciples. This means that when Jesus said these words, according to Hebrews 8:13 soon the first covenant (i.e. the Old Covenant or Old Testament) was ready to vanish away (Which took place the very next day with Christ's death upon the cross). For when Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom, letting us know that the Old Law had ended.

Click to expand...

The Old Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf has Ended. The Levitical Priesthood is changed. That is the LAW that has ended. Sin still exists, God's definition of Sin, Holy, Justice, Righteousness, has not changed, nor will it ever. The implication of the religious doctrines and traditions I was born into, is that the two greatest Commandments in the Law, and all that hang on them, has ended. But this is not true according to Scriptures. The only thing the Christ said changed was the manner in which HIS Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of these Laws are atoned for. Anything else has been added by religious man, that Jesus Himself warned against several times.

Our Bibles are divided into two sections. One is called, “the Old Testament” and the other is called, “the New Testament.” Hebrews 8:13 says “he has made the first one obsolete” (NLT), or “he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” This is in reference to the entirety of the Old covenant and not just a part of it.

Click to expand...

I agree. The Law "ADDED" because of transgression, that is the Levitical Priesthood, has all been changed. Not just part of it. We don't hold on to "any" part of the sacrifice of animals, "any part" of the written sanctuary, Priests and their robes, Alters, candle sticks, basins of water, temples built of wood and stone.

His Temple is the minds of His People, HIS Laws are not written in stone, but on the hearts of His People. We offer ourselves to the Christ, a living sacrifice. We don't have Priest's to administer God's Words, because HIS Word is available to each one of us, in our home, and in our hearts.

But as it was with the Mainstream Preachers of Paul's time, there are still those who cling to the Old Covenant. The Old Priesthood with their alters, and long flowing robes, and "Chief Seats" in their temples made of wood and stone.

Nothing in Hebrews suggests a partial passing away of the Old covenant. Yes, certain laws in the Old have been repeated in the New Covenant, but we go by the New Covenant or New Contract, and not the Old one.

Click to expand...

No, the pattern shown on the mount was Jesus, the Priesthood which has become obsolete was a shadow of Him. They were not to retain any of the Old Priesthood. But they did anyway, they still called for the sacrificial and ceremonial "works of the law" for justification. They still required a Priest, not the Christ, for the administration of God's Laws.

Today there are still those who cling to the Old Priesthood Laws and ceremonies. You must hear God's Word from a Preacher or Priest. You must be sprinkled with water, or perform this religious tradition of that religious doctrine. You must go to a temple made of wood and stone, come to that Alter, be touched by the preacher, etc., etc.

These have all become obsolete, in favor of a New Covenant where we don't have to hear the Word of the Lord from others, but we can meet with the Christ, the Word of God, face to face. And read His Word's without the influence of the "other voice" in the garden.

But Jesus said men would prefer the old after having tasted of the new.

“No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.” (Luke 5:39).

Anyways, if Hebrews 8:13 is not convincing, then...

Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):


”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

Click to expand...

Before I knew the Christ, before, when I lived in disobedience to God, I was not married to Him. The Law said if I break it, I shall surely die. I broke it, and I died. But Jesus gave HIS Blood so that my past transgressions could be forgiven, and I could be free from "Death" my disobedience caused. Now I am free from the Law, being dead wherein I was held, so that I can serve another, be married to another. The Christ Jesus.

Rom. 6:
15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, but under grace? (Married to the Christ) God forbid. (that means NO)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Nothing here about rejecting the Law and Prophets, or the Word's of the God that had it written for our admonition. The Priesthood Changed, not God's Laws, Commandments, or Statutes. At least according to Scriptures.

But as the Christ says, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump. "Many have been convinced that the New Covenant replaced all of God's Law. It did not. It replaced the Priesthood. But because religious men have been convinced of this falsehood, every scripture is influenced by this leaven.

So they believe;

The Law and the prophets are against us and nailed to the cross, when Jesus said "Do not even THINK He came to destroy them.

God's Law is against us, when Jesus and Paul both said God's Laws are written "for our sake's no doubt"

God's Law is a respecter of persons and caused Gentiles to be "aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel, without God and without Hope in the world", when it was the Mainstream Preachers who taught for doctrines the "Commandments of Men" whose Laws condemned a non-Jew.

God's Law is Beggarly Elements, when Paul calls God's Laws Good, Just, and Holy.

God's Law is the Yoke of Bondage, when God Himself said they were there in our minds that we may hear them and do them, and it was religious men who taught for doctrines the Commandments of men that placed burdens on their shoulders..

God's Law caused Israel to fall, when Jesus said it was because they transgressed the commandments of God by their religious traditions.

All because men are convinced, as was Eve, that God's Law is the burden, when the real burden is listening to the other voice in the garden and choosing its word over the Righteous Words of God.

There is a huge chasm between what you believe and what I believe. If we could just accept How God Himself defines HIS Own New Covenant, this chasm wouold become smaller in a hurry.

My hope is that we can.

Studyman said:

Yes, HE Became our High Priest. We are justified by His Blood, not "works" of the Levitical Priesthood. The Priesthood changed, not God's definition of sin.

I will ask you, "How were the sins of man atoned for prior to "After those Days" when the Christ Himself said HE would forgive their sins? I hope you will answer.



I will ask you, "How does the Creator of HIS OWN New Covenant define HIS Own New Covenant?" And do you believe men, who Love Him, should accept HIS Definition, or the definition of "other voices"? Please answer.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

So here is the Creator of the New Covenant, defining for us, HIS NEW Covenant. Lets see what HE says together.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I will ask you, "How were God's Laws administered prior to this?" How did Men learn about God's Laws before this New Covenant? Did His People not receive God's Laws through the Levitical Priesthood? In fact, didn't they have the exclusive power over the "Book of the Law"? Was it possible, before the New Covenant, for regular men like you and I to take the Book of the Law and read it for ourselves? Or was it Priesthood Law that to Hear the Word of God, I must first go find the Levite Priest? I hope you will engage.

So according to the Christ's own definition of HIS Own NEW Covenant, there is absolutely no mention, suggestion, implication or teaching that God's Law defining SIN would change, the only change mentioned in this part of HIS definition of His New Covenant is the Manner in which HIS Laws are administered.

What else "Changed" in His Definition of HIS New Covenant?

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So this begs another question; "How were transgressions of God's Laws forgiven prior to this time?" Please answer this relevant question.

Did God not make a Covenant with Levi to "Minister before Him in the Priests office"? Did this Covenant include sacrificial "Works" for the forgiveness of transgression of God's Laws, AKA "sins", which were to be performed "EXCLUSIVELY" by a Levite Priest?


Once again, there is not even one mention, implication, or even suggestion that God's LAW changed, only the manner in which transgression of these laws are atoned for.

So did this "Priesthood" given by Covenant of God exclusively to Levi, become obsolete? Did it Pass away and a New and Better "ministry", a New Priesthood, replace it? Of course, it was always to be a temporary Law, "till the Seed should come".

So where do the religions of this land find the religious doctrine that God replaced HIS LAWS, and not just the manner in which they are administered (Received) and the manner in which transgression of HIS Law is atoned for (forgiven)?




There is no doubt Jesus ushered in HIS Promised New Covenant, New Testament, when He came to Earth as a man. Like HE says, the sins of men are now atoned for by HIS Own Blood, not the way it used to be, by taking a turtle dove to the Levite Priest who would then sprinkle this blood on the alter for forgiveness of sins.

I am not trying to show that there was not a new Covenant, I am just point out what the New Covenant is, "ACCORDING TO IT'S CREATOR".



The Old Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf has Ended. The Levitical Priesthood is changed. That is the LAW that has ended. Sin still exists, God's definition of Sin, Holy, Justice, Righteousness, has not changed, nor will it ever. The implication of the religious doctrines and traditions I was born into, is that the two greatest Commandments in the Law, and all that hang on them, has ended. But this is not true according to Scriptures. The only thing the Christ said changed was the manner in which HIS Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of these Laws are atoned for. Anything else has been added by religious man, that Jesus Himself warned against several times.



I agree. The Law "ADDED" because of transgression, that is the Levitical Priesthood, has all been changed. Not just part of it. We don't hold on to "any" part of the sacrifice of animals, "any part" of the written sanctuary, Priests and their robes, Alters, candle sticks, basins of water, temples built of wood and stone.

His Temple is the minds of His People, HIS Laws are not written in stone, but on the hearts of His People. We offer ourselves to the Christ, a living sacrifice. We don't have Priest's to administer God's Words, because HIS Word is available to each one of us, in our home, and in our hearts.

But as it was with the Mainstream Preachers of Paul's time, there are still those who cling to the Old Covenant. The Old Priesthood with their alters, and long flowing robes, and "Chief Seats" in their temples made of wood and stone.



No, the pattern shown on the mount was Jesus, the Priesthood which has become obsolete was a shadow of Him. They were not to retain any of the Old Priesthood. But they did anyway, they still called for the sacrificial and ceremonial "works of the law" for justification. They still required a Priest, not the Christ, for the administration of God's Laws.

Today there are still those who cling to the Old Priesthood Laws and ceremonies. You must hear God's Word from a Preacher or Priest. You must be sprinkled with water, or perform this religious tradition of that religious doctrine. You must go to a temple made of wood and stone, come to that Alter, be touched by the preacher, etc., etc.

These have all become obsolete, in favor of a New Covenant where we don't have to hear the Word of the Lord from others, but we can meet with the Christ, the Word of God, face to face. And read His Word's without the influence of the "other voice" in the garden.



Before I knew the Christ, before, when I lived in disobedience to God, I was not married to Him. The Law said if I break it, I shall surely die. I broke it, and I died. But Jesus gave HIS Blood so that my past transgressions could be forgiven, and I could be free from "Death" my disobedience caused. Now I am free from the Law, being dead wherein I was held, so that I can serve another, be married to another. The Christ Jesus.

Rom. 6:
15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, but under grace? (Married to the Christ) God forbid. (that means NO)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Nothing here about rejecting the Law and Prophets, or the Word's of the God that had it written for our admonition. The Priesthood Changed, not God's Laws, Commandments, or Statutes. At least according to Scriptures.

But as the Christ says, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump. "Many have been convinced that the New Covenant replaced all of God's Law. It did not. It replaced the Priesthood. But because religious men have been convinced of this falsehood, every scripture is influenced by this leaven.

So they believe;

The Law and the prophets are against us and nailed to the cross, when Jesus said "Do not even THINK He came to destroy them.

God's Law is against us, when Jesus and Paul both said God's Laws are written "for our sake's no doubt"

God's Law is a respecter of persons and caused Gentiles to be "aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel, without God and without Hope in the world", when it was the Mainstream Preachers who taught for doctrines the "Commandments of Men" whose Laws condemned a non-Jew.

God's Law is Beggarly Elements, when Paul calls God's Laws Good, Just, and Holy.

God's Law is the Yoke of Bondage, when God Himself said they were there in our minds that we may hear them and do them, and it was religious men who taught for doctrines the Commandments of men that placed burdens on their shoulders..

God's Law caused Israel to fall, when Jesus said it was because they transgressed the commandments of God by their religious traditions.

All because men are convinced, as was Eve, that God's Law is the burden, when the real burden is listening to the other voice in the garden and choosing its word over the Righteous Words of God.

There is a huge chasm between what you believe and what I believe. If we could just accept How God Himself defines HIS Own New Covenant, this chasm wouold become smaller in a hurry.

My hope is that we can.

Click to expand...

No.

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).


Even after the cross, there were changes being made:

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
(Galatians 5:2).


The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because again, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
(Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17).

Jesus said,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).


Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).

Bible Highlighter said:

No.

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).

Click to expand...

This is what I mean about the "other voice". We can actually read God's Own Definition of HIS Own New Covenant, and be convinced not to believe what it says by "other voices".

Who is Jesus talking about here in Matt. 5:20??

Matt. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So here Jesus is saying that whosoever (Jew/Gentile) shall break, or teach others to break, even the least of God's Commandments spoken of in the Law and Prophets, that HE said He didn't come to destroy, shall be called "Least" in the kingdom of heaven.

But "Many" religious men have been convinced this sentence is not true, and that these Commandments in the Law and Prophets have been replaced.

the question here is "who are the "Those of Old Time"

Listen to Jesus speaking about "Them of old time"? Was it God, as you teach? Or the Priest's who Led God's People Astray?

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The "Them of old time" is not God, as you are preaching here. The "Them of Old Time" are the Levite Priests who led God's People astray because they "Omitted" important matters of the Law. They became "Partial in the Law", (Mal. 2:8,9), they caused many to "Stumble in the Law".

Jesus is pointing out that these Preachers of Old Time correctly taught not to Kill, but He is pointing out that HE ALSO gave the Law about hating your brother in your heart, a Law that they "omitted" from their religion.

He said "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

This is why it is important to listen to HIM, and not "other voices".

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" ( Numbers 35:30-32)."

Jesus, as the Word of God, did command this. But HE also commanded this;

Lev. 19:16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

He is pointing out once again, the Failure of the Mainstream Preachers of this time who were promoting ancient religious doctrines which "omitted" the weightier matters of the Law.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, (You are Worthless) shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, (Dull, Stupid) shall be in danger of hell fire." (Lev. 19:16-18).

This was always the Christ's Teaching for men as even the story of Cain and Abel teaches from the very beginning..

The same thing here.

"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" ( Deuteronomy 23:21).

Jesus, as the Word of God certainly did teach this.

But HE also taught this as the Word of God.

Duet. 23:22 But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee.

23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; (Yea, Yea, or Nay, Nay) even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.


34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Duet 23:21, 22)

So the "them of Old Time" taught part of God's Laws, but omitted the rest. Jesus said man shall live by Every Word of God. He is doubling down on this teaching in Matt. 5.

This is true throughout the rest of this Chapter. I am so sorry you have been taught differently, but please consider these things.

Look at the complete change of direction a single religious doctrine takes, on this one issue.

You have been convinced that the "Them of Old Time" is the Word of God which became Flesh. Implying that the Pharisees were simply innocent victims of an unjust, incomplete, Law created by their God, and they were simply following the incomplete Commandments of God, and that is why they were considered by God as "unrighteous", and were rejected by HIM.

Think about this for a minute. You are furthering a religion which teaches the Pharisees were unrighteous, because they followed God's Laws which you teach were incomplete.

On the other hand, I believe the "them of Old Time" was not God, but the "Shepherds" God placed to teach HIS People God's Words. The Shepherds that led God's People astray. The shepherds which "Omitted" the weightier matters of the Law, who became "Partial" in the Law.

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Yes, The "Them of Old Time", taught not to kill, but didn't teach the sin of hating your brother in your heart.

But the Christ, the Word of God which became Flesh, who created the Law in the first place, DID.

Was Jesus really rebuking HIS Own Father? Was HE Correcting the WORD of God? Or was He rebuking the Mainstream Preachers of His Time for their promotion of ancient religious doctrines which were partial in this Law and led His People to go astray?

These are hard issues to deal with. Did God promise to write Laws on the hearts of HIS People that were never given to them? How was Zacharias and Elizabeth considered Righteous, if they didn't have the Christ's Laws? Did God condemn a people for rejecting Laws HE didn't give them?

I am not trying to be argumentative here at all. It seems most prudent to ask these questions given all the warning about false doctrines.

Who was the "them of Old Time"? God, or the Priests God placed over the sanctuary?

Who got it wrong? God, or religious men? It has to be one or the other.

I believe, and can prove with Scriptures, that it wasn't the GOD of the Bible which got it wrong, it was the preachers of old time.

So what now? We all, like them, have been influenced by "them of Old Time". So how shall those who Love Him proceed? Should we not listen to what "HE SAYS"?

"BUT I SAY; "Man shall "live by" Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God", not as those of "Old Time" who were partial in the Law.

Studyman said:

This is what I mean about the "other voice". We can actually read God's Own Definition of HIS Own New Covenant, and be convinced not to believe what it says by "other voices".

Who is Jesus talking about here in Matt. 5:20??

Matt. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So here Jesus is saying that whosoever (Jew/Gentile) shall break, or teach others to break, even the least of God's Commandments spoken of in the Law and Prophets, that HE said He didn't come to destroy, shall be called "Least" in the kingdom of heaven.

But "Many" religious men have been convinced this sentence is not true, and that these Commandments in the Law and Prophets have been replaced.

the question here is "who are the "Those of Old Time"

Listen to Jesus speaking about "Them of old time"? Was it God, as you teach? Or the Priest's who Led God's People Astray?

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The "Them of old time" is not God, as you are preaching here. The "Them of Old Time" are the Levite Priests who led God's People astray because they "Omitted" important matters of the Law. They became "Partial in the Law", (Mal. 2:8,9), they caused many to "Stumble in the Law".

Jesus is pointing out that these Preachers of Old Time correctly taught not to Kill, but He is pointing out that HE ALSO gave the Law about hating your brother in your heart, a Law that they "omitted" from their religion.

He said "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

This is why it is important to listen to HIM, and not "other voices".

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" ( Numbers 35:30-32)."

Jesus, as the Word of God, did command this. But HE also commanded this;

Lev. 19:16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

He is pointing out once again, the Failure of the Mainstream Preachers of this time who were promoting ancient religious doctrines which "omitted" the weightier matters of the Law.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, (You are Worthless) shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, (Dull, Stupid) shall be in danger of hell fire." (Lev. 19:16-18).

This was always the Christ's Teaching for men as even the story of Cain and Abel teaches from the very beginning..

The same thing here.

"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" ( Deuteronomy 23:21).

Jesus, as the Word of God certainly did teach this.

But HE also taught this as the Word of God.

Duet. 23:22 But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee.

23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; (Yea, Yea, or Nay, Nay) even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.


34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Duet 23:21, 22)

So the "them of Old Time" taught part of God's Laws, but omitted the rest. Jesus said man shall live by Every Word of God. He is doubling down on this teaching in Matt. 5.

This is true throughout the rest of this Chapter. I am so sorry you have been taught differently, but please consider these things.

Look at the complete change of direction a single religious doctrine takes, on this one issue.

You have been convinced that the "Them of Old Time" is the Word of God which became Flesh. Implying that the Pharisees were simply innocent victims of an unjust, incomplete, Law created by their God, and they were simply following the incomplete Commandments of God, and that is why they were considered by God as "unrighteous", and were rejected by HIM.

Think about this for a minute. You are furthering a religion which teaches the Pharisees were unrighteous, because they followed God's Laws which you teach were incomplete.

On the other hand, I believe the "them of Old Time" was not God, but the "Shepherds" God placed to teach HIS People God's Words. The Shepherds that led God's People astray. The shepherds which "Omitted" the weightier matters of the Law, who became "Partial" in the Law.

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Yes, The "Them of Old Time", taught not to kill, but didn't teach the sin of hating your brother in your heart.

But the Christ, the Word of God which became Flesh, who created the Law in the first place, DID.

Was Jesus really rebuking HIS Own Father? Was HE Correcting the WORD of God? Or was He rebuking the Mainstream Preachers of His Time for their promotion of ancient religious doctrines which were partial in this Law and led His People to go astray?

These are hard issues to deal with. Did God promise to write Laws on the hearts of HIS People that were never given to them? How was Zacharias and Elizabeth considered Righteous, if they didn't have the Christ's Laws? Did God condemn a people for rejecting Laws HE didn't give them?

I am not trying to be argumentative here at all. It seems most prudent to ask these questions given all the warning about false doctrines.

Who was the "them of Old Time"? God, or the Priests God placed over the sanctuary?

Who got it wrong? God, or religious men? It has to be one or the other.

I believe, and can prove with Scriptures, that it wasn't the GOD of the Bible which got it wrong, it was the preachers of old time.

So what now? We all, like them, have been influenced by "them of Old Time". So how shall those who Love Him proceed? Should we not listen to what "HE SAYS"?

"BUT I SAY; "Man shall "live by" Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God", not as those of "Old Time" who were partial in the Law.

Click to expand...

The weightier matters of the Law is love, faith, justice, and mercy (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). The Lord wanted the Pharisees to focus more on these things but not at the expense of tithing, etc.; The problem with the Pharisees is that they were not loving, merciful, just, and had faith in what God's Word said.

But this has nothing to do with my point on what Covenant we are to obey. We are clearly New Covenant believers and there clearly is a change of the Law as Scripture says. That was the point of my previous post to you. You can ignore the points I made with Scripture, but I would not advise it. God does not want us to go backwards.

Bible Highlighter said:

The weightier matters of the Law is love, faith, justice, and mercy (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). The Lord wanted the Pharisees to focus more on these things but not at the expense of tithing, etc.; The problem with the Pharisees is that they were not loving, merciful, just, and had faith in what God's Word said.

But this has nothing to do with my point on what Covenant we are to obey. We are clearly New Covenant believers and there clearly is a change of the Law as Scripture says. That was the point of my previous post to you. You can ignore the points I made with Scripture, but I would not advise it. God does not want us to go backwards.

Click to expand...

The reason for my reply was to point out the difference between what religious men teach God's New Covenant is, and what God actually teaches it is, as well as to point out the false teaching that tries to convince us that the "them of old time" Jesus spoke of in Matt. 5 was God, when it was not.

I point these things out because when asked about the end times by HIS Disciples, Jesus didn't warn of Jews, or Islam, or Atheists or Pagans, HE warned of "Christians" teaching lies about God, AKA, deception.

In Hebrews 7 -10 the entire conversation is regarding the Levitical Priesthood, and goes on to define EXACTLY what Law changed, and why. There is not even one mention of any other Law, or Covenant, than the One God made with Levi on Israel's behalf.

Your post does not reflect what the Word of God actually teaches about these things as I have pointed out, and proven with Scripture, in an attempt to share with my brethren that modern mainstream teaching, doesn't align with the actual Word's of God. Much in the same way Jesus and HIS Prophets and Disciples, including Stephen, pointed out the false teaching of the Mainstream Preachers of their time.

I was hoping for a discussion about these doctrinal issues, for the edification of the brethren, given modern religions do not reflect what the Holy Scriptures are really saying, as I have pointed out.

I did not ignore the scriptures you posted, I centered my entire reply around them. It Seems you are convinced that the God of the Bible made a mistake, and His Son had to come and correct Him, and also it seems as if you are convinced God's New Covenant is different than what HE Himself actually defines it as.

I know how difficult it is for religious men to be questioned, and even worse to be corrected. But these doctrinal issues are important as Jesus said;

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

If the Christ rejected them because they "omitted" parts of God's Law in their religion, I think it is a mistake to believe modern religious man can do the same and escape the same judgment. Especially given His Word's above.

Thanks for the discussion even though you didn't find it in your heart to answer the prudent questions I posed.

May God's Word, which is Spirit and Life, lead us into God's truth.

To anyone who has ears to hear:

Some will say that we do not have to obey any kind of Law and neither do we have to do any kind of works as a part of eternal life and they will point to verses like Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, and Romans 11:6 as proof. But in these verses, Paul was condemning the idea of...


Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, and Romans 11:6 are all dealing with how we need to first be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. This is the 1st aspect or process of salvation called “Justification.” We are not saved by works alone without God's grace. But we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works and we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10). Paul says a person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). Paul says if you walk after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, you will live (See: Romans 8:13). Paul also said we need two things as a part of God choosing us to salvation.

“God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

So God has chosen us to salvation through...

#1. Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus is the Truth - John 14:6).
#2. Sanctification (i.e. Living holy by God's power; Note: You can see the polar opposite contrast of faith + living holy in 2 Thessalonians 2:12, and you can see the repeated point on faith + living holy (good works) in 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).


Side Note:

Men are saved by both “God's Grace by Faith,” and “Sanctification.” We are first saved by God's grace through faith in Christ by believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation, and by seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ by way of prayer to Him (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) (Romans 10:13). If a believer later in life happens to stumble on rare occasion in doing a sin. They go to God's grace again. They go to their advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1). We confess our sins to be forgiven of our sins (1 John 1:9). This would be to the Lord Jesus. They do not go out and do a good work to offset that sin to be forgiven. We confess our sins to Jesus, to be forgiven. For if we do not confess, we will not be forgiven. So this is God's grace. This is the Justification Process. It is how we are initially and foundationally saved. But after we are saved by God's grace, we need to enter the Sanctification Process (living holy by God's power) in order to continue in God's plan of salvation for our lives. Loving by God by keeping His commands is not automatic. For we are told to keep ourselves in the love of God (Jude 1:21). Jesus said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10). Jesus did not say you will keep my commandments because you love me. Jesus said IF you keep my commandments, ye (you-all) will abide in my love. Paul said if any man does not love the Lord Jesus, let him be Anathema (accursed) (See: 1 Corinthians 16:22).

Bible Highlighter said:

To anyone who has ears to hear:

Some will say that we do not have to obey any kind of Law and neither do we have to do any kind of works as a part of eternal life and they will point to verses like Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, and Romans 11:6 as proof. But in these verses, Paul was condemning the idea of...

(a) Following the whole of the 613 Laws of Moses as a package deal, and:
(b) Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace.​

Click to expand...

Friend, The teaching that God placed 613 Laws on the necks of the Children of Abraham HE rescued from Egypt is a religious myth created by the master deceiver.

I really wish religious men would look into the origins of this religious doctrine before they preach it as truth of the Holy Scriptures.

There were never 613 Laws placed by God on the necks of any man, at least not by the God of the Bible. There was the Covenant God made with Abraham that was passed on to Abraham's Children, which included God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes, and there was the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf, for administration of these Laws, and the forgiveness of men who transgressed them.

The Covenant that changed, according to the Holy Scriptures, was the Covenant God made with Levi, not the one made with Abraham 430 years earlier, and passed on to Abraham's Children.

The Holy Scriptures say Salvation is a combination of Faithfulness to God, as opposed to faithfulness to the religious doctrines and traditions of the land we are born into, combined with God's Grace and Mercy.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rom. 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)


These religious men followed a religious Way they "Did" in the Christ's Name. But transgressing God's Commandments is wrong, even if a religious man does it in Christ's Name.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

It is my understanding that Jesus is the God of the OT who created the "Way of the Lord", including God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws that Abraham was blessed for obeying.

And this same Christ also made a Covenant with Levi, on Mt. Sinai, on Israel's behalf. This covenant provided for the administration of God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments, as well as providing for the forgiveness of men who transgressed them.

And this Same Christ promised of a time "After those days" when HE, not Levi, would administer God's Laws, and HE, not Levi, would provide for the atonement of sins.

So these Commandments and Statues and Promises of the Word of God which became Flesh, are Jesus' Sayings are they not? Did this same God come to earth in the Flesh in the person of Jesus?

So your statement "Some will say that we do not have to obey any kind of Law and neither do we have to do any kind of works as a part of eternal life" is true in my view as well.

As Prophesied, There are "many" who teach we are not to "Do" the Sayings of the Word of God which became Flesh. In fact, the very first deception written for our admonition was a "voice" quoting some of God's Word, to convince Eve that God was a Liar, and that God's Laws made her Blind.

But my friend, the Christ did not place 613 Laws on the necks of even one man that HE brought out of sin (Egypt). There is another christ being taught who may have treated his people that he saved from Egypt that way, but it was not the Christ of the Bible.

My hope is to bring these doctrines to the Light to see if they are wrought of God or not, for the edification of both you and I, and those reading along.

I hope we can have an impartial discussion about these popular religious doctrines of the land, as Jesus warned of them over and over and over.

Studyman said:

Friend, The teaching that God placed 613 Laws on the necks of the Children of Abraham HE rescued from Egypt is a religious myth created by the master deceiver.

I really wish religious men would look into the origins of this religious doctrine before they preach it as truth of the Holy Scriptures.

There were never 613 Laws placed by God on the necks of any man, at least not by the God of the Bible. There was the Covenant God made with Abraham that was passed on to Abraham's Children, which included God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes, and there was the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf, for administration of these Laws, and the forgiveness of men who transgressed them.

The Covenant that changed, according to the Holy Scriptures, was the Covenant God made with Levi, not the one made with Abraham 430 years earlier, and passed on to Abraham's Children.

The Holy Scriptures say Salvation is a combination of Faithfulness to God, as opposed to faithfulness to the religious doctrines and traditions of the land we are born into, combined with God's Grace and Mercy.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rom. 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)


These religious men followed a religious Way they "Did" in the Christ's Name. But transgressing God's Commandments is wrong, even if a religious man does it in Christ's Name.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

It is my understanding that Jesus is the God of the OT who created the "Way of the Lord", including God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws that Abraham was blessed for obeying.

And this same Christ also made a Covenant with Levi, on Mt. Sinai, on Israel's behalf. This covenant provided for the administration of God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments, as well as providing for the forgiveness of men who transgressed them.

And this Same Christ promised of a time "After those days" when HE, not Levi, would administer God's Laws, and HE, not Levi, would provide for the atonement of sins.

So these Commandments and Statues and Promises of the Word of God which became Flesh, are Jesus' Sayings are they not? Did this same God come to earth in the Flesh in the person of Jesus?

So your statement "Some will say that we do not have to obey any kind of Law and neither do we have to do any kind of works as a part of eternal life" is true in my view as well.

As Prophesied, There are "many" who teach we are not to "Do" the Sayings of the Word of God which became Flesh. In fact, the very first deception written for our admonition was a "voice" quoting some of God's Word, to convince Eve that God was a Liar, and that God's Laws made her Blind.

But my friend, the Christ did not place 613 Laws on the necks of even one man that HE brought out of sin (Egypt). There is another christ being taught who may have treated his people that he saved from Egypt that way, but it was not the Christ of the Bible.

My hope is to bring these doctrines to the Light to see if they are wrought of God or not, for the edification of both you and I, and those reading along.

I hope we can have an impartial discussion about these popular religious doctrines of the land, as Jesus warned of them over and over and over.

Click to expand...

Even if the count number of the Law (613) is not accurate, your missing the point. We are not under the Old Covenant and it’s respective laws as a whole or package deal. Yes, certain laws have been repeated in the New Covenant (NC) from out of the Old (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) when NC officially began with Christ’s death, but we follow Jesus and His followers and not Moses. For Scripture says the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Bible Highlighter said:

Even if the count number of the Law (613) is not accurate, your missing the point. We are not under the Old Covenant and it’s respective laws as a whole or package deal. Yes, certain laws have been repeated in the New Covenant (NC) from out of the Old (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) when NC officially began with Christ’s death, but we follow Jesus and His followers and not Moses. For Scripture says the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you got your information about 613 laws, nor do I understand where you get your information about God's New Covenant in respect to His Laws. Here is The Christ Himself defining HIS Own New Covenant.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You are preaching "We are not under the Old Covenant and it’s respective laws". But according to the Creator of the New Covenant HIMSELF, HE SAYS HE will write HIS Laws on the hearts of His People in the New Covenant. There is no mention about any re-definition of sin, new commandments not yet known, 613 laws, nothing.

According the Creator of the New Covenant only the manner in which His Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgressions of His Laws are atoned for are changed. Both exclusive duties of the Covenant this Same God made with Levi.

You never even mention what God Himself says about His Own New Covenant, instead, you speak of a New Covenant God says nothing about.

Why do we need Grace and Truth from Jesus? Is it because we have transgressed God's Laws?

No my friend, it is you who miss the whole point. It is easy to follow the teaching of the religions of the Land, not so easy to "deny our self and Follow Him", it is truly a narrow path.

Those who follow Him believe Moses, as HE Himself also said.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Studyman said:

I'm not sure where you got your information about 613 laws, nor do I understand where you get your information about God's New Covenant in respect to His Laws. Here is The Christ Himself defining HIS Own New Covenant.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You are preaching "We are not under the Old Covenant and it’s respective laws". But according to the Creator of the New Covenant HIMSELF, HE SAYS HE will write HIS Laws on the hearts of His People in the New Covenant. There is no mention about any re-definition of sin, new commandments not yet known, 613 laws, nothing.

According the Creator of the New Covenant only the manner in which His Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgressions of His Laws are atoned for are changed. Both exclusive duties of the Covenant this Same God made with Levi.

You never even mention what God Himself says about His Own New Covenant, instead, you speak of a New Covenant God says nothing about.

Why do we need Grace and Truth from Jesus? Is it because we have transgressed God's Laws?

No my friend, it is you who miss the whole point. It is easy to follow the teaching of the religions of the Land, not so easy to "deny our self and Follow Him", it is truly a narrow path.

Those who follow Him believe Moses, as HE Himself also said.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

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Okay. You are not reading all of verse 34. It says,

Jeremiah 31:34 says,
“And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord : for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

This does not sound like today but it sounds like the Millennium or the 1,000 year of reign of Christ (after the Lord's second coming). No more will anyone say, ”know the Lord,” because they shall all know Him.

As for the God's Law being written in their hearts: Nothing is stated as to which Law this is referring to.

Try re-reading Romans 8:2 sometime. You may be shocked to learn that there are two laws mentioned in this verse. There is...

#1. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
#2. The Law of sin and death.

Now, what is the Law of sin and death?

Bible Highlighter said:

Okay. You are not reading all of verse 34. It says,

Jeremiah 31:34 says,
“And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord : for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

This does not sound like today but it sounds like the Millennium or the 1,000 year of reign of Christ (after the Lord's second coming). No more will anyone say, ”know the Lord,” because they shall all know Him.

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Isn't V. 34 a continuation of verse 33?

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

A problem with religious men that I have come to know, is their practice of believing a Doctrine of the land, then twisting Scriptures to fit the Doctrine, instead of letting the Scriptures determine the doctrine in the first place.

I have addressed your comment on "after the Lord's Second Coming", and pointed out what the scriptures say. Does God wait until after His Return to write His Laws on the hearts of His People?

I think not.

Does HE write His Laws on the hearts of those religious men who create their own religious doctrines and traditions which transgress His Laws?

I find no evidence that HE does.

As for the God's Law being written in their hearts: Nothing is stated as to which Law this is referring to.

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This is simply not true. There is a Covenant Law, given to Levi, on Mt. Sinai, which determines "WHO" Administers God's Laws, and this Same Covenant also provides for the Atonement of Transgressions of God's Laws. This Law is given specifically to a Tribe Separated from the rest of Israel, the Tribe of Levi. Laws that Israel was forbidden to engage in.

In God's Definition of His Own New Covenant, HE Addresses only two matters.

#1. The manner in which HIS Laws are administered.

#2. The manner in which HIS Laws are atoned for.

Both exclusive duties of the Levitical Priesthood. Heb. 7 confirms this.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The Priesthood changed in the New Covenant, not God's Definition of sin. At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Try re-reading Romans 8:2 sometime. You may be shocked to learn that there are two laws mentioned in this verse. There is...

#1. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
#2. The Law of sin and death.

Now, what is the Law of sin and death?

Click to expand...

Lets look at Paul's Words in Rom. 8 and see if I am "shocked" by what he says.


Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who "walk"

Greek for "walk"= peripateo="to tread all around" "to Live" "Deport ones self" "to Follow", "Be occupied with", walk.

not after the flesh, (Man's Traditions, man's religion, mans righteousness, mans desires, man's lusts)

but after the Spirit. (God's Words, God's Laws, God's instructions, God's Way, God's Righteousness) As Paul says in the previous chapter; "For we know that the law (Of God) is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."

So Paul is speaking of those who walk after the Laws of God, which He Says are Spiritual, and not after the imaginations of men, which HE says are Fleshy.


For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

Who is the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ Jesus? Was it not His Father? If not, please tell me if there is another Spirit of Life. If the Spirit of Life is His Father, then Paul is saying it was the Law of His Father, in Christ Jesus, that Freed me from the wages of transgressions of the Father's Law.

hath made me free from the "law of sin and death". ( What is the Law of Sin?)

[URL='https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ezekiel-18-20/']20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.[/URL]

And what did the Law of the Spirit of Life say?

Lets look at it now.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

So then Paul is confirming this teaching in Rom. 8, that there is no condemnation (Only Mercy) for those who "WALK" (Live by, deport ones self, occupy oneself ) in the Law of the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus, who has set me free (through Grace and Mercy) from the Old Man that was part of the "Children of Disobedience".

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, (After those days) and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (Became obedient unto death)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk ("to tread all around" "to Live" "Deport ones self" "to Follow", "Be occupied with", walk.) not after the flesh, (man's wisdom, man's religion, man's righteousness, man's desires and lusts) but (walk) after the Spirit. (God's Words, God's Laws, God's Righteousness, God's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant)

5 For they that are (Walking) after the flesh (man's wisdom, man's religion, man's righteousness, man's desires and lusts) do mind the things of the flesh; (man's wisdom, man's religion, man's righteousness, man's desires and lusts) but they that are (Walking) after the Spirit (God's Words, God's Laws, God's Righteousness, God's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant) the things of the Spirit. (God's Words, God's Laws, God's Righteousness, God's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant)

6 For to be carnally (fleshy)minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Paul's words do not shock me at all. He is preaching exactly what HE believes.

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

What if the Christ's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant is Truth, and it is the religious doctrines and traditions of man who are wrong. Surely we must consider this possibility.

Studyman said:

Isn't V. 34 a continuation of verse 33?

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

A problem with religious men that I have come to know, is their practice of believing a Doctrine of the land, then twisting Scriptures to fit the Doctrine, instead of letting the Scriptures determine the doctrine in the first place.

I have addressed your comment on "after the Lord's Second Coming", and pointed out what the scriptures say. Does God wait until after His Return to write His Laws on the hearts of His People?

I think not.

Does HE write His Laws on the hearts of those religious men who create their own religious doctrines and traditions which transgress His Laws?

I find no evidence that HE does.



This is simply not true. There is a Covenant Law, given to Levi, on Mt. Sinai, which determines "WHO" Administers God's Laws, and this Same Covenant also provides for the Atonement of Transgressions of God's Laws. This Law is given specifically to a Tribe Separated from the rest of Israel, the Tribe of Levi. Laws that Israel was forbidden to engage in.

In God's Definition of His Own New Covenant, HE Addresses only two matters.

#1. The manner in which HIS Laws are administered.

#2. The manner in which HIS Laws are atoned for.

Both exclusive duties of the Levitical Priesthood. Heb. 7 confirms this.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The Priesthood changed in the New Covenant, not God's Definition of sin. At least according to the Christ of the Bible.



Lets look at Paul's Words in Rom. 8 and see if I am "shocked" by what he says.


Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who "walk"

Greek for "walk"= peripateo="to tread all around" "to Live" "Deport ones self" "to Follow", "Be occupied with", walk.

not after the flesh, (Man's Traditions, man's religion, mans righteousness, mans desires, man's lusts)

but after the Spirit. (God's Words, God's Laws, God's instructions, God's Way, God's Righteousness) As Paul says in the previous chapter; "For we know that the law (Of God) is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."

So Paul is speaking of those who walk after the Laws of God, which He Says are Spiritual, and not after the imaginations of men, which HE says are Fleshy.


For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

Who is the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ Jesus? Was it not His Father? If not, please tell me if there is another Spirit of Life. If the Spirit of Life is His Father, then Paul is saying it was the Law of His Father, in Christ Jesus, that Freed me from the wages of transgressions of the Father's Law.

hath made me free from the "law of sin and death". ( What is the Law of Sin?)

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

And what did the Law of the Spirit of Life say?

Lets look at it now.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

So then Paul is confirming this teaching in Rom. 8, that there is no condemnation (Only Mercy) for those who "WALK" (Live by, deport ones self, occupy oneself ) in the Law of the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus, who has set me free (through Grace and Mercy) from the Old Man that was part of the "Children of Disobedience".

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, (After those days) and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (Became obedient unto death)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk ("to tread all around" "to Live" "Deport ones self" "to Follow", "Be occupied with", walk.) not after the flesh, (man's wisdom, man's religion, man's righteousness, man's desires and lusts) but (walk) after the Spirit. (God's Words, God's Laws, God's Righteousness, God's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant)

5 For they that are (Walking) after the flesh (man's wisdom, man's religion, man's righteousness, man's desires and lusts) do mind the things of the flesh; (man's wisdom, man's religion, man's righteousness, man's desires and lusts) but they that are (Walking) after the Spirit (God's Words, God's Laws, God's Righteousness, God's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant) the things of the Spirit. (God's Words, God's Laws, God's Righteousness, God's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant)

6 For to be carnally (fleshy)minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Paul's words do not shock me at all. He is preaching exactly what HE believes.

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

What if the Christ's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant is Truth, and it is the religious doctrines and traditions of man who are wrong. Surely we must consider this possibility.

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First, you make it difficult to reply to with the implied insults thrown my way. I do not follow a religion or denomination. I have learned what I did through study of God's Word by comparing Scripture with Scripture and by asking God for the understanding. I do not seek to alter God's Word in what it says so as to fit a preconceived set of beliefs. I simply read it, and believe it.

Second, Hebrews 7:12 plainly says the Law has changed. No offense, but you simply do not believe what this verse says. I will quote it for all to see (to show you your own error).

“For the priesthood being changed,
there is made of necessity
a change also of the law.” (Hebrews 7:12).

Three, your interpretation of Romans 8:2 does not make any sense. Paul would not give credence to man's traditions as being a law in Romans 8:2. Paul is saying that the “law of sin and death” is the Old Testament Law because if lived during that time period and you broke certain laws within the Law of Moses, you could be stoned or killed for breaking them. Romans 7:11 says, “For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.” (Romans 7:11).

This is not the case today. We do not stone people for disobeying God's laws. But if you follow the Laws of Moses, this is what you must do. In fact, we see Jesus change this Law with the woman caught in the act of adultery in John 8.

In other words, in Romans 8:2: Paul is mentioning a New Covenant Law (the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus), and he is contrasting it with the Old Covenant Law (the law of sin and death). Paul says to the Galatian church if they seek to be justified by the Law, they have fallen from grace (See: Galatians 5:4). This would be the Old Testament Law because Paul says in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Circumcision is a part of the Old Law given to Abraham (before Moses). Circumcision is not a command that is repeated or stressed in the New Covenant (or New Testament).

Bible Highlighter said:

First, you make it difficult to reply to with the implied insults thrown my way. I do not follow a religion or denomination. I have learned what I did through study of God's Word by comparing Scripture with Scripture and by asking God for the understanding. I do not seek to alter God's Word in what it says so as to fit a preconceived set of beliefs. I simply read it, and believe it.

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Accept for God's Own Definition of HIS Own New Covenant. You don't seem to believe His Word's there, and are reluctant to even discuss them. Why???

Second, Hebrews 7:12 plainly says the Law has changed. No offense, but you simply do not believe what this verse says. I will quote it for all to see (to show you your own error).

“For the priesthood being changed,
there is made of necessity
a change also of the law.” (Hebrews 7:12).

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Why would you post scripture to show us the Law changed, and reject the very scriptures following, which not only tell us "WHAT" Law changed, but "WHY" it changed.

Why would you do such a thing.

Three, your interpretation of Romans 8:2 does not make any sense. Paul would not give credence to man's traditions as being a law in Romans 8:2.

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Not sure I'm following you here. There is the "Law of the Spirit of Life" that was in Jesus, and the Law of Sin, which is death.

I asked you who is this "Spirit of Life" was which was in Christ. You refused to answer.

I seems like an important thing to understand. Who is the "Spirit of Life" in Christ Jesus? Is HE the Same Spirit that defined HIS Own New Covenant for us in Jer. 31?

Paul is saying that the “law of sin and death” is the Old Testament Law because if lived during that time period and you broke certain laws within the Law of Moses, you could be stoned or killed for breaking them. Romans 7:11 says, “For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.” (Romans 7:11).

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No, that is simply untrue. The Law of Sin and Death is not the Old Testament. Even today, those who transgress God's Commandments, AKA sin, are in need of repentance and forgiveness. Why?? Because the wages of sin, the Law of sin, is death. The soul that sins shall die. That is the "LAW" of transgressions. This is why Jesus said to "Depart from iniquity", because iniquity Kills us. That is the Law of iniquity/sin/transgression and death.

The New Covenant didn't change any of this. Only the manner in which God's, that is "the Spirit of Life's", Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgressions of these Laws, AKA, Sin, is forgiven. It's in your own Bible, all you need is to believe it.

This is not the case today. We do not stone people for disobeying God's laws. But if you follow the Laws of Moses, this is what you must do. In fact, we see Jesus change this Law with the woman caught in the act of adultery in John 8.

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So you are making these religious statements "we see Jesus change this Law with the woman caught in the act of adultery".

Did God have David Stoned to death for Adultery? Why not if it was God's Law? Is there not a Law of Mercy? Have you omitted this "weightier matter of the Law" to promote your own religious beliefs? How is Jesus' Mercy given the woman in John 8, any different from the Mercy HE gave to David?

"Many" religious men won't answer this question, because if they answer it honestly, it will expose the error in the religious statement they make. Thus the reason for my comment regarding religious men.

I could ask you, "how did the blood of Jesus taste, and where did you find it"? Of course the commandment to "drink His Blood" is a Spiritual Commandment with Spiritual meaning. "Many" accept the Word's of the Christ as Spiritual, when HE is a Man, but they refuse to accept HIS Word's as Spiritual, when HE was creating the Examples written for us, AKA Law and Prophets.

Why would someone do this?

In other words, in Romans 8:2: Paul is mentioning a New Covenant Law (the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus), and he is contrasting it with the Old Covenant Law (the law of sin and death).

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I asked you who is the "Spirit of Life" in Christ Jesus? But sadly you won't answer.

The God who promised and defined a New covenant, is this the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ Jesus? Or are you promoting a different "Spirit of Life"?

Paul says to the Galatian church if they seek to be justified by the Law, they have fallen from grace (See: Galatians 5:4).

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I have asked many times, but religious men on this forum refuse to answer, "How was a man's sins forgiven before the SEED came?"

How were sins atoned for prior to the New Covenant? When a man sinned in Moses time, how were His Sins forgiven.

When a man sinned, how was he justified according to the Law of Moses? Did Moses tell them to "Keep the Sabbath Holy" and your sins are forgiven? Did Moses say to a man that sinned, "Love you neighbor as yourself" and your sins are forgiven?

No, you can read it in your own Bible. When a man sinned, Moses told them they were required to take an animal to a Levite Priest who would them perform sacrificial "works" to justify them.

In the NEW Covenant God defined for us, He said "After those days" HE, Himself would forgive their sins. A new and better Covenant. No more sacrificial "works of the Law" for the atonement of sins.

The Jews who were "bewitching" the Galatians didn't believe Jesus was the "SEED", so they are still partaking in their version of the Levitical Priesthood "Works" for justification. Paul is telling them "By the Works of the Law" is no Flesh Justified.

Religious men try to twist this by omitting the truth about what these "Works" were., much in the same way they omit the scriptures which show us what Law changed, and why in Heb. 7. I am just here pointing this out to the brethren for discussion so that we might, by the Law of the Spirit of Life, be freed from the deception these "other" voices in the garden promote.

This would be the Old Testament Law because Paul says in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Circumcision is a part of the Old Law given to Abraham (before Moses). Circumcision is not a command that is repeated or stressed in the New Covenant (or New Testament).

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Circumcision is still required, that is, the Spiritual Circumcision the Law and Prophets foreshadowed.

Not the circumcision promoted by those who reject God's Laws, but as Moses said;

Duet. 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

As Paul also teaches;

Phil. 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Again, Circumcision of the Heart spoken by God through Moses, has a Spiritual Meaning, just as Drinking the Blood of Jesus has spiritual meaning. The mainstream preachers of Paul's time didn't understand this meaning because when they knew God, they didn't glorify Him as God, and their foolish hearts are darkened.

Today we have a religious movement which omits so much of God's Word to promote religious doctrines and traditions of men. One such falsehood they promote is that Circumcision didn't have a Spiritual meaning in the Law and Prophets, only Fleshy and plays no part in our Salvation.. But Paul teaches otherwise.

Col. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

So once again I am placed in a circumstance where religious men teach one thing, and the Holy Scriptures teach another.

So I am taking these popular religious doctrines and bringing them to the True Light of Christ, and Letting HIS Own Word discern for me whether or not they are "wrought in God".

Although sometimes uncomfortable, these discussions are good to have among men, in my view.

The laws of the Sinai covenant concerning the forgiveness of sins made man do something physical to have sins put on hold. They were tentatively saved by their works. Christians are saved by Jesus works.

Bob S said:

The laws of the Sinai covenant concerning the forgiveness of sins made man do something physical to have sins put on hold. They were tentatively saved by their works. Christians are saved by Jesus works.

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Sabbatarians think we are still under the Old Law and some will even say that we are saved by faith and not works. Either way, they are trying to be justified by the Law because they believe the Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etc. still applies and must be obeyed for all. This is one aspect that Paul was condemning. For Paul said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Paul said in context to the Galatians that if they be justified by the Law, they have fallen from grace. This would be the OT Law and not all forms of Law because circumcision was something that was a part of the Old Covenant Laws (Beginning with Abraham).

But even Abraham was not justified by works alone without faith. Romans 4 states,

“What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” (Romans 4:1-3).

Things did not change. In Hebrews 11 we read this about Moses:

“By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.” (Hebrews 11:23-29).

So faith was something that was a part of the Old Covenant.

Paul was condemning:

#1. Being justified by the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal.
#2. Being justified by Law Alone Salvationism (without God's grace).

Works merely show one's faith.

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:18).

“But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:20-24).

Abraham was justified by works by offering up his son Isaac. His works made his faith perfect (Just as Scripture plainly says in this passage above). But men prefer to hear their Pastor or some ear tickling Christian article or the majority of popular Christianity than hear the Bible. We are saved by “Faith in God's grace (Jesus) + Works of Faith (Sanctification and or Holy Living)” (that demonstrate our faith). For faith without works is dead (James 2:17), and even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). For just believing Jesus is the Savior does not save alone anymore than works alone do not save. It's not one or the other. Yet, people today fall into one wrong extreme or the other.

Paul was preaching against the heresy of Works Alone Salvationism without God's grace in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, Romans 11:6, and Titus 3:5. Paul promoted the first aspect of salvation called “Justification” (Being saved by God's grace through believing that Christ died for our sins, he was buried, and he was risen three days later for our salvation, and in seeking forgiveness of our sins with Jesus). James was condemning Belief Alone-ism in James 2. For faith without works is dead. James was for promoting the second aspect of the salvation process called “Sanctification” (Which involves putting away sin, doing good works, obeying God's commands, and living holy). This is a progressive process and is different for every believer. But believers will overcome grievous sin (i.e. mortal sin) at some point in their life (Showing their faith).