Peace between Israel and UAE

childeye 2

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Uh huh and it took 16 months after Begin/Sadat shook hands to sign the treaty. You have to understand they have to agree on a framework prior to drawing up the paperwork.
You have to start somewhere is stating the obvious. It doesn't change the fact that suspending declaring sovereignty is not the same as surrendering the claim of sovereignty. But it's a start.
 
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civilwarbuff

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It was just unthinkable to me that anyone thought Trump was not intent on using Burisma to bad mouth Joe Biden.
He probably was but house dems used impeachment against Trump to distract from the economy and give a reason to bad mouth him come election time.
Just like he inserted himself in trying to get Zelensky to declare he was opening investigations into Biden, he probably requested Netanyahu to say he would suspend declaring their sovereignty over disputed territory.
My evidence for my comment is the US Constitution; what's yours?
 
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childeye 2

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He probably was but house dems used impeachment against Trump to distract from the economy and give a reason to bad mouth him come election time.
The impeachment began because Trump withheld funding to Ukraine unless they announced investigations into Biden and the 2016 election. I don't see how that would distract from the economy.

My evidence for my comment is the US Constitution; what's yours?
I'm not arguing against your point. I never disputed that the State department and diplomacy was a part of the executive branch. I'm just saying Trump requested that Netanyahu suspend declaring sovereignty for the moment, and Netanyahu has agreed to do that for the moment.
 
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Redwingfan9

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civilwarbuff

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The impeachment began because Trump withheld funding to Ukraine unless they announced investigations into Biden and the 2016 election.
That was never demonstrated.
I'm just saying Trump requested that Netanyahu suspend declaring sovereignty for the moment, and Netanyahu has agreed to do that for the moment.
Is that anything like the Obama request that Putin give him some slack until after the election when he wold have more flexibility?....you know, the one caught on the open mic and posted around the world. Something like that?
 
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Running2win

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An interesting development but from a Christian standpoint it's irrelevant. We're talking about two godless nations agreeing on some measure of peace and nothing more. The big question is how Iran will respond.

I'm a Christian and it's relevant because of end time scenarios. Iran will probably try and take some territory before long, IMO. :)

I'll stand with godless Israel because a remnant of God is hidden in her. (Zech 12)
 
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Redwingfan9

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I'm a Christian and it's relevant because of end time scenarios. Iran will probably try and take some territory before long, IMO. :)

I'll stand with godless Israel because a remnant of God is hidden in her. (Zech 12)
I'm post-mil, Israel and the middle east are irrelevant to end times. The Jews are godless, not one of them is saved or will ever be saved absent God calling them to faith in Jesus Christ just like us.

I'm not sure Iran has the capability to try to make territorial gains right now. They have significant unrest among their people and there is reason to believe the Coronavirus has hit them particularly hard. Israel attacked them several times last month and they didn't respond, which indicates that there are either divisions among their leadership or an inability to respond effectively.
 
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childeye 2

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That was never demonstrated.
I think it was. There's no evidence to the contrary. The defense for Trump even argued that if it were true it was not an impeachable offense. The testimony from all of the witnesses testified that it happened and it's corroborated by texts between those representing the State department as well as the memo transcript of the phone conversation with Zelensky. We also have Trump and Mulvaney on the public record.

9-23-2019,
A reporter asked Trump, "What did you tell the Ukrainian president about Joe Biden and his family during your phone call?" Trump responded, "Well you're going to see because what we are doing is we want honesty, and if we deal with a country we want honesty. And I think with the new president, you're going to see much more honesty in the Ukraine. That's what we're looking for. We're supporting a country. We want to make sure that country is honest. It's very important to talk about corruption. If you don't talk about corruption, why would you give money to a country that is corrupt? One of the reasons the new president got elected was to stop corruption. So it's very important that on occasion you speak to somebody about corruption, very important".

10-3-2019,
A reporter asks, "what did you want from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to do with regard to the Bidens?" Trump answered, “Well, I would think that if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens. It's a very simple answer. They should investigate the Bidens,”

Fox and friends report that the Washington Post broke a story that the president ordered Mick Mulvaney to freeze 390 million dollars in aid to Ukraine before he talked to president Zelensky. "Fox News has confirmed that apparently president Trump wanted to make sure that the new president of Ukraine understood that if you want to get this money we really want you to end corruption before we give you that money".

Mulvaney press conference 10-17-2019,
Reporter (M): (21:27)
So the demand for an investigation into the Democrats was part of the reason that he ordered to withhold funding to Ukraine?

Mick Mulvaney: (21:34)
The look back to what happened in 2016 certainly was part of the thing that he was worried about in corruption with that nation. And that is absolutely appropriate.

Reporter (M): (21:42)
Withholding the funding?

Mick Mulvaney: (21:43)
Yeah. Which ultimately then flowed.

Reporter (F): (24:04)
Just to clarify and just to follow up on that question. So when you’re saying that politics is going to be involved, the question here is not just about political decisions about how you want to run the government. This is about investigating political opponents. Are you saying that [crosstalk 00:24:25]-

Mick Mulvaney: (24:22)
The DNC server.


Is that anything like the Obama request that Putin give him some slack until after the election when he wold have more flexibility?....you know, the one caught on the open mic and posted around the world. Something like that?
Whatever Obama was referring to being flexible on was obviously pushed back as something Obama felt would have to wait until after the election. What is happening here with Israel is plainly stated by Netanyahu in the agreement that was made public, that Trump requested for Netanyahu to suspend declaring sovereignty over disputed lands.
 
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TexFire316

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It won't last. Every nation that surrounds Israel wants them destroyed. God warned them throughout history about making peace with their enemies. This isn't just a physical conflict, it is also occurring in the spiritual realm. There may be 70 lesser gods that control all other nations, but Yahweh Himself has already laid claim to Israel. And He reminds us that those who bless Israel He will bless, and those who curse Israel He will curse.
Israel might want peace, but their enemies will not let them have it, and it will get worse every year until the last great war. Then God Himself comes back and destroys the enemies.
And I stand with Israel.
 
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wing2000

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LOLOLOLOLOL......next he will probably say that Harris was closely involved with it also.....Poor Joe.

....as with any International agreement, it takes years of effort.

“the coming together of Israel and Arab states builds on the efforts of multiple administrations to foster a broader Arab-Israeli opening, including the efforts of the Obama-Biden administration to build on the Arab Peace Initiative.”

“I personally spent time with leaders of both Israel and the UAE during our administration building the case for cooperation and broader engagement and the benefits it could deliver to both nations, and I am gratified by today’s announcement,” Biden said in a statement Thursday. “It is a timely reminder that enmities and differences — even long standing ones — are not set in stone, and of the role American diplomacy can play.”
 
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civilwarbuff

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I think it was. There's no evidence to the contrary. The defense for Trump even argued that if it were true it was not an impeachable offense. The testimony from all of the witnesses testified that it happened and it's corroborated by texts between those representing the State department as well as the memo transcript of the phone conversation with Zelensky. We also have Trump and Mulvaney on the public record.

9-23-2019,
A reporter asked Trump, "What did you tell the Ukrainian president about Joe Biden and his family during your phone call?" Trump responded, "Well you're going to see because what we are doing is we want honesty, and if we deal with a country we want honesty. And I think with the new president, you're going to see much more honesty in the Ukraine. That's what we're looking for. We're supporting a country. We want to make sure that country is honest. It's very important to talk about corruption. If you don't talk about corruption, why would you give money to a country that is corrupt? One of the reasons the new president got elected was to stop corruption. So it's very important that on occasion you speak to somebody about corruption, very important".

10-3-2019,
A reporter asks, "what did you want from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to do with regard to the Bidens?" Trump answered, “Well, I would think that if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens. It's a very simple answer. They should investigate the Bidens,”

Fox and friends report that the Washington Post broke a story that the president ordered Mick Mulvaney to freeze 390 million dollars in aid to Ukraine before he talked to president Zelensky. "Fox News has confirmed that apparently president Trump wanted to make sure that the new president of Ukraine understood that if you want to get this money we really want you to end corruption before we give you that money".

Mulvaney press conference 10-17-2019,
Reporter (M): (21:27)
So the demand for an investigation into the Democrats was part of the reason that he ordered to withhold funding to Ukraine?

Mick Mulvaney: (21:34)
The look back to what happened in 2016 certainly was part of the thing that he was worried about in corruption with that nation. And that is absolutely appropriate.

Reporter (M): (21:42)
Withholding the funding?

Mick Mulvaney: (21:43)
Yeah. Which ultimately then flowed.

Reporter (F): (24:04)
Just to clarify and just to follow up on that question. So when you’re saying that politics is going to be involved, the question here is not just about political decisions about how you want to run the government. This is about investigating political opponents. Are you saying that [crosstalk 00:24:25]-

Mick Mulvaney: (24:22)
The DNC server.


Whatever Obama was referring to being flexible on was obviously pushed back as something Obama felt would have to wait until after the election. What is happening here with Israel is plainly stated by Netanyahu in the agreement that was made public, that Trump requested for Netanyahu to suspend declaring sovereignty over disputed lands.
Let's stay on topic here, feel free to start a thread if you want to discuss this hashed over subject.
 
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civilwarbuff

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....as with any International agreement, it takes years of effort.

“the coming together of Israel and Arab states builds on the efforts of multiple administrations to foster a broader Arab-Israeli opening, including the efforts of the Obama-Biden administration to build on the Arab Peace Initiative.”

“I personally spent time with leaders of both Israel and the UAE during our administration building the case for cooperation and broader engagement and the benefits it could deliver to both nations, and I am gratified by today’s announcement,” Biden said in a statement Thursday. “It is a timely reminder that enmities and differences — even long standing ones — are not set in stone, and of the role American diplomacy can play.”
My point was Joe trying to take credit for things he had nothing to do with; Obama got no where on the few tries he had with the ME and just threw up his hands and walked away.
"
2009 - Netanyahu’s Bar-Ilan address

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he would be prepared for a peace deal that includes the establishment of a demilitarised Palestinian state. He also sets another condition: Palestinian recognition of Israel as the "state of the Jewish people".

2013 - 2014 - Washington peace talks/negotiations collapse

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry coaxes Israelis and Palestinians to resume talks. They fail and are suspended in April 2014."
Timeline: Israel, UAE Deal Follows Years of Failed Peace Initiatives
 
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Tom 1

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This is a glorious moment for America and the world, but the media will downplay it as much as possible not wanting to give President Trump credit for anything.

The media coverage is generally positive.
 
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Tom 1

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What's this got to do with trump?

He did play a part, to be fair, in a limited fashion. Kushner’s business orientated mindset seems to chime quite well with the more pragmatic Arab leaders in the region. Ironically for the most ardent Trumpists though most of the legwork appears to have been done by ‘deep state’ operative Brian Hook. The fantasists will always believe this is all just down to Trump however.

There does seem to be a bit of a growing divide between those in power in the ME who want to hold on to past grievances, and those who want to move forward. Wanting to avoid Palestinian annexation was a big motivator too, if that does go ahead then the agreement is likely to fail.
 
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JacksBratt

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Running2win

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I'm post-mil, Israel and the middle east are irrelevant to end times. The Jews are godless, not one of them is saved or will ever be saved absent God calling them to faith in Jesus Christ just like us.

I'm not sure Iran has the capability to try to make territorial gains right now. They have significant unrest among their people and there is reason to believe the Coronavirus has hit them particularly hard. Israel attacked them several times last month and they didn't respond, which indicates that there are either divisions among their leadership or an inability to respond effectively.

Iran, Turkey slam UAE, claim Israel deal a ‘dagger’ in backs of Palestinians, Muslims
 
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wing2000

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My point was Joe trying to take credit for things he had nothing to do with; Obama got no where on the few tries he had with the ME and just threw up his hands and walked away.
"
2009 - Netanyahu’s Bar-Ilan address

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he would be prepared for a peace deal that includes the establishment of a demilitarised Palestinian state. He also sets another condition: Palestinian recognition of Israel as the "state of the Jewish people".

2013 - 2014 - Washington peace talks/negotiations collapse

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry coaxes Israelis and Palestinians to resume talks. They fail and are suspended in April 2014."
Timeline: Israel, UAE Deal Follows Years of Failed Peace Initiatives

...and Joe's point is Trump alone can't take credit for it.

I'll give Trump credit for convincing Netanyahu to give up (for now) claims to the West Bank.
 
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