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As promised, here is my thread on Total Depravity. I've been doing a lot of research on this subject over the last 3 weeks or so because I wanted to get as much information as possible into my topics on the 5 points of Calvinism. In case you do not know what Total Depravity is, it is one of the five points of Calvinism. It's a teaching that, mankind ever since the fall has been unable and unwilling to go to God for their salvation or to be Godly of any sort. So, basically It's a theology that says that everyone in the OT and NT from Noah to the Apostle Paul ...etc and all who were saved after them had to have their hearts regenerated by God before they could be saved or do anything Godly of the sort because of their fallen sin nature.
To prove this we have to first turn to a few Major people in the bible including the Apostle Paul, Jesus Christ, The prophet Isaiah, King David, and Yahweh himself (Commonly believed in Christianity to be Jesus). We'll start with Paul in the book of Romans. I will be using the ESV to defend my points on the five points of Calvinism. In Romans 3:9-18 Paul says quoting Psalm 14:
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless no one does good, not even one.” Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery; and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
In these verses of Romans Paul teaches quoting David that mankind in their fleshly nature, do not seek after God. And it's not just some people in history, it's ALL people in history. All have turned aside, nobody does good not even one person. They do not fear God, they do not even worry about God. Think about it, before you became a Christian did you care about or fear God? I sure didn't I didn't even believe he existed. Before you became a Christian did you want to live a Godly life? I sure didn't, I loved being in my sins and sinning brought me joy and happiness (or what I thought was joy and happiness anyway). Before God came to you, did you want to read the Bible? I sure didn't, I read the Bible once in my life for about 30 minutes, got to the part where Adam lived to be almost 1,000 years old closed the book laughed my behind off at how stupid and highly improbable that was and never picked it up again until a few years after my conversion.
We move on in Romans now. Mainly, Romans 8:7. In Romans 8:7 Paul says:
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
As the great Sproul says in his Reformation Study Bible (It's available for free on Biblegateway so I'm not really infringing any copyrights here and he puts it better than I could).
"8:7 hostile to God. Pure anti-God hostility, incapable of being anything else, is the real mind-set of everyone who is not yet renewed by the Spirit (3:9–18). The natural person regards God as an enemy."
What Sproul and Paul mean is that the natural sin nature of mankind are naturally hostile towards God, they're incapable of being anything else and there isn't any way that they can actually turn towards God because their natural nature is to be against him. We are wicked and evil people and that should not be downplayed. We kill people, we lie, we use the Lord's name in vain, we steal, we commit adultery, we are by nature, bodn sinners. We by nature don't care about God or what he has to say, we commit sin and quite frankly, we love it. If you commit sin and HATE it, that's a sign that God has done work in you. Because your natural nature is to LOVE it. I did, you did, we ALL did. That's what makes us totally depraved humans.
My last quotation from Paul (although there are probably more but I don't want this topic to be an eternity long. I still have a lot more scripture to give.) is what he tells us in Ephesians 2:1-10. Paul Says:
2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Sorry I bolded most of what Paul said but, it all pertains to the subject at hand. In these verses Paul talks about how we were all once DEAD in our trespasses and sins which we ALL once walked. We followed the course of this world and the Devil, but then God made us ALIVE. God regenerated us and turned our hearts of stone into a heart of Flesh (You know where I quoted this from and I'll be talking about it later). Finally, salvation is NOT our own doing, it is the GIFT of God. God does the saving and salvation, NOT us. It is IMPOSSIBLE for us to go to God when we are in the flesh as scripture proves over and over again. But, I cannot quote every part of the Bible, I have to move on.
We move on to the words of Jesus Christ himself. In the magical Chapter of John 6. Yes, I know we Calvinists use John 6 (and the book of John) to prove a lot of our theology but if you read and meditate on John 6, what Christ says starts to make sense. If I didn't quote John 6 and be in love with the chapter pretty much ever since my conversion, I wouldn't be a Calvinist
. We'll Start with John 6:37-40. Jesus says:
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Calvinists also use John 6:37-40 to prove Perseverance of the Saints, Limited Atonement, and Irresistible Grace. But, I want to use it to show you that it teaches Total Depravity as well. Why? Read what I've bolded. "All that the father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will NEVER cast out. Then in verse 38, I've come not to do my will but the will of the Father. Then in verse 39 and 40 he teaches us what the will of the Father is. The will of the father is that Christ loses NONE of what God the Father gives to Jesus but that Jesus raises them ALL on the last day.
So how does this teach Total Depravity or any of the other points of Calvinism? I'm sure you've wondered over the years what the magical "Will of the Father" that Jesus talked about in Matthew 7:21-23. Many theologians have guessed for almost 1,700+ years now what it could possibly be. But, Jesus gave the Apostles the answer before he died. It's been in front of people's eyes the whole time and ST. Augustine was the first theologian to "discover" it (True prior to Augustine the NT didn't really exist and they were still scrapping it together but you get my point.) It's that all that God the Father gives to Jesus, none are lost. God plays a 100% role in mankind's salvation, mankind has no part in it because mankind CANNOT play a part in it. We are sinfully depraved. How does God the Father give people to Jesus? Well, we turn to John 6:44-45 to find the answer.
John 6:44-45:
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—.
Jesus didn't just say nobody would be willing to come to me, he plainly stated "Nobody CAN come to me." unless God draws them. It is God who initiates our salvation, not ourselves. As I said quoting Paul above "It is not of yourselves, it is a gift of God." A common argument to a Calvinists argument on this subject is, well God draws everybody. To that I say, tell me if God draws everybody why isn't everyone raised on the last day? God said those who are drawn by God are raised on the last day. God does NOT draw everybody. The fact of the matter is and the pure bluntness of Jesus is, NOBODY can come to God unless God draws them and gives them a new heart. Why? Because mankind has been totally depraved by themselves ever since the fall. I could keep going on in the book of John but this is getting long enough, I can give you guys more scripture in my replies. Now, to prove this even further, we now turn to the OT.
I'm going to just tell you what verses I'm quoting and you can look them up yourself, I'm trying to make this short. I've already quoted Psalm 14 because Paul did. But, there is also Psalm 58:3, Psalm 38:5, & Psalm 119:176 and there's also Psalm 51 written by David shortly after his famous adultery with Bethsheba. There is Ezekiel 36:25, Job 14:4, Job 15:16, Isaiah 59:7-8, 13-15, Isaiah 64:6, Jeremiah 2:13, and ultimately Ezekiel 36:26.
There is plenty of Biblical evidence for Total Depravity. Just, many people aren't willing to read or look. The fact of the matter is, we need God. As Christ says in Matthew 19:26, "With man this impossible, but with God ALL things are possible."
Amen.
To prove this we have to first turn to a few Major people in the bible including the Apostle Paul, Jesus Christ, The prophet Isaiah, King David, and Yahweh himself (Commonly believed in Christianity to be Jesus). We'll start with Paul in the book of Romans. I will be using the ESV to defend my points on the five points of Calvinism. In Romans 3:9-18 Paul says quoting Psalm 14:
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless no one does good, not even one.” Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery; and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
In these verses of Romans Paul teaches quoting David that mankind in their fleshly nature, do not seek after God. And it's not just some people in history, it's ALL people in history. All have turned aside, nobody does good not even one person. They do not fear God, they do not even worry about God. Think about it, before you became a Christian did you care about or fear God? I sure didn't I didn't even believe he existed. Before you became a Christian did you want to live a Godly life? I sure didn't, I loved being in my sins and sinning brought me joy and happiness (or what I thought was joy and happiness anyway). Before God came to you, did you want to read the Bible? I sure didn't, I read the Bible once in my life for about 30 minutes, got to the part where Adam lived to be almost 1,000 years old closed the book laughed my behind off at how stupid and highly improbable that was and never picked it up again until a few years after my conversion.
We move on in Romans now. Mainly, Romans 8:7. In Romans 8:7 Paul says:
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
As the great Sproul says in his Reformation Study Bible (It's available for free on Biblegateway so I'm not really infringing any copyrights here and he puts it better than I could).
"8:7 hostile to God. Pure anti-God hostility, incapable of being anything else, is the real mind-set of everyone who is not yet renewed by the Spirit (3:9–18). The natural person regards God as an enemy."
What Sproul and Paul mean is that the natural sin nature of mankind are naturally hostile towards God, they're incapable of being anything else and there isn't any way that they can actually turn towards God because their natural nature is to be against him. We are wicked and evil people and that should not be downplayed. We kill people, we lie, we use the Lord's name in vain, we steal, we commit adultery, we are by nature, bodn sinners. We by nature don't care about God or what he has to say, we commit sin and quite frankly, we love it. If you commit sin and HATE it, that's a sign that God has done work in you. Because your natural nature is to LOVE it. I did, you did, we ALL did. That's what makes us totally depraved humans.
My last quotation from Paul (although there are probably more but I don't want this topic to be an eternity long. I still have a lot more scripture to give.) is what he tells us in Ephesians 2:1-10. Paul Says:
2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Sorry I bolded most of what Paul said but, it all pertains to the subject at hand. In these verses Paul talks about how we were all once DEAD in our trespasses and sins which we ALL once walked. We followed the course of this world and the Devil, but then God made us ALIVE. God regenerated us and turned our hearts of stone into a heart of Flesh (You know where I quoted this from and I'll be talking about it later). Finally, salvation is NOT our own doing, it is the GIFT of God. God does the saving and salvation, NOT us. It is IMPOSSIBLE for us to go to God when we are in the flesh as scripture proves over and over again. But, I cannot quote every part of the Bible, I have to move on.
We move on to the words of Jesus Christ himself. In the magical Chapter of John 6. Yes, I know we Calvinists use John 6 (and the book of John) to prove a lot of our theology but if you read and meditate on John 6, what Christ says starts to make sense. If I didn't quote John 6 and be in love with the chapter pretty much ever since my conversion, I wouldn't be a Calvinist
. We'll Start with John 6:37-40. Jesus says:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Calvinists also use John 6:37-40 to prove Perseverance of the Saints, Limited Atonement, and Irresistible Grace. But, I want to use it to show you that it teaches Total Depravity as well. Why? Read what I've bolded. "All that the father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will NEVER cast out. Then in verse 38, I've come not to do my will but the will of the Father. Then in verse 39 and 40 he teaches us what the will of the Father is. The will of the father is that Christ loses NONE of what God the Father gives to Jesus but that Jesus raises them ALL on the last day.
So how does this teach Total Depravity or any of the other points of Calvinism? I'm sure you've wondered over the years what the magical "Will of the Father" that Jesus talked about in Matthew 7:21-23. Many theologians have guessed for almost 1,700+ years now what it could possibly be. But, Jesus gave the Apostles the answer before he died. It's been in front of people's eyes the whole time and ST. Augustine was the first theologian to "discover" it (True prior to Augustine the NT didn't really exist and they were still scrapping it together but you get my point.) It's that all that God the Father gives to Jesus, none are lost. God plays a 100% role in mankind's salvation, mankind has no part in it because mankind CANNOT play a part in it. We are sinfully depraved. How does God the Father give people to Jesus? Well, we turn to John 6:44-45 to find the answer.
John 6:44-45:
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—.
Jesus didn't just say nobody would be willing to come to me, he plainly stated "Nobody CAN come to me." unless God draws them. It is God who initiates our salvation, not ourselves. As I said quoting Paul above "It is not of yourselves, it is a gift of God." A common argument to a Calvinists argument on this subject is, well God draws everybody. To that I say, tell me if God draws everybody why isn't everyone raised on the last day? God said those who are drawn by God are raised on the last day. God does NOT draw everybody. The fact of the matter is and the pure bluntness of Jesus is, NOBODY can come to God unless God draws them and gives them a new heart. Why? Because mankind has been totally depraved by themselves ever since the fall. I could keep going on in the book of John but this is getting long enough, I can give you guys more scripture in my replies. Now, to prove this even further, we now turn to the OT.
I'm going to just tell you what verses I'm quoting and you can look them up yourself, I'm trying to make this short. I've already quoted Psalm 14 because Paul did. But, there is also Psalm 58:3, Psalm 38:5, & Psalm 119:176 and there's also Psalm 51 written by David shortly after his famous adultery with Bethsheba. There is Ezekiel 36:25, Job 14:4, Job 15:16, Isaiah 59:7-8, 13-15, Isaiah 64:6, Jeremiah 2:13, and ultimately Ezekiel 36:26.
There is plenty of Biblical evidence for Total Depravity. Just, many people aren't willing to read or look. The fact of the matter is, we need God. As Christ says in Matthew 19:26, "With man this impossible, but with God ALL things are possible."
Amen.
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