What day do you believe is the “Lord's Day” in Revelation 1:10?


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parousia70

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Wow, presumptuous much?

I don't have to presume what is demonstrable fact.
You Don't follow the Law.

No one does today.

I often challenge Folks who claim the OT law MUST be Followed today, to name even one person on the planet today that observes the Law of Moses. It's impossible. There isn't one. That's because there is no Law System extant anywhere on the planet to accommodate or demand observance. It went up in smoke at AD 70.

Nearly 1/2 of the Law of Moses consists in Temple practices/rituals/Levitical duties. The Law of Moses does not consist in reading a book. It consists in strict OBSERVANCE. There is no way to observe the Law of Moses and hasn't been since AD 70.

Here's where it gets sticky...

Jesus says that UNTIL the eschatological time of the passing of "heaven and earth," every minute detail of the Law of Moses down to the very least of its 600+ commands be kept. He says: "therefore whosoever shall break one of these LEAST commandments and shall teach others to do so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven." The passage calls for the keeping of the Law even BEYOND what the Pharisees produced in their practice and observance (Matt 5:20).

But The Bible does a great Job of Un-sticking....

Hebrews 12:18-28 tells precisely the extent of things. God's establishment of the Mosaic World was a "shaking of the earth," and his establishment of the New Covenant Kingdom was a "shaking earth and heaven." Hebrews teaches that God had to "remove the first covenant to establish the second" (Heb 10:9), and that removal of the first was "about to happen" (Heb 8:13) at the time Hebrews was written (AD 64-66). He who was coming in a very very short while came and did not delay (Heb 10:37). The Mosaic World went up in smoke just about five years later when The Lord of the Vineyard came and the "Kingdom was taken from Christ's enemies and given to a new nation" (Matt 21:40-43).
 
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AmigodeJesus

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You Don't follow the Law.
I follow it in Christ Jesus. What amazes me is the utter presumptuous attitude that deems to determine my position in life, when they are not me, never met me, and don't even know the first thing about me, except what I say about me, and when I do say it, they apriorily and outrightly reject it for the imaginary scenario that they have substituted for reality in their own minds.
 
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AmigodeJesus

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The Law of Moses does not consist in reading a book.
Whomever said it did? Red-herring or straw-man much?

It consists in strict OBSERVANCE.
Absolutely. If you would refer back to my comment about sacrifices and actually engage my statements, instead of replacing them with your own straw-manning, it would help us along.
 
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parousia70

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You are reading something into these verses that is not there. It does not say that He only ascended one time. No verse actually says that here. The words, “now to appear” does not mean, “and Jesus ascended only one time.” Also, Hebrews 9:25 that says, “not that He should offer Himself often,” is in reference to His death upon the cross and not His ascensions.

The Slaying of the Sacrificial Lamb is not the Offering... the sprinkling of the blood on the altar is.
 
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parousia70

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I follow it in Christ Jesus.
Here's' what the scripture says:

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Pretty Straight Forward.

I agree with it as written.
Do you?

If you do, please tell us which you are doing in your life?
Breaking the least of the 600+ commands (Jots & Tittles) of the Law, or practicing, upholding and teaching them?
 
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ViaCrucis

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What are you referring to? Where did you get that number?

There are 613 distinct mitzvot in the Torah, the number comes from the people who have for over three thousand years followed the Torah--the Jews themselves.

-CryptoLutherant
 
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AmigodeJesus

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There are 613 distinct mitzvot in the Torah, the number comes from the people who have for over three thousand years followed the Torah--the Jews themselves.

-CryptoLutherant
You are in error.
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Ok. I know how some like ordered lists, so hear goes:

[1.] To begin with, there is not a single place in all the TaNaKh, neither the portion thereof, the Torah (Gen-Deut) where God, Moses, Joshua, or any person of heaven above, or on this earth below, state on biblical record that there are exactly '613' 'mitzvot'. For the New Testament minded (Matt-Rev), the same applies also. Again, absent. Jesus, as a final example (for the New Testament minded), did not once enumerate the 'mitzvot' of the Torah for us in such fashion, to '613' or any other such number.

[2.] The enumeration of '613' is a Rabbincal, yea even after a Talmudical, fashioning or calculation or enumeration. No one has to take my word for this, it is said as much on the very site so kindly provided to us (it has been provided so many times, I lost count):

"... Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is based primarily on the list compiled by Rambam in the Mishneh Torah, but I have consulted other sources as well. As I said in the page on halakhah, Rambam's list is probably the most widely accepted list, but it is not the only one. The order is my own, as are the explanations of how some rules are derived from some biblical passages. ..." - Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

As a side note:

The RaMBaM (whom I have read on numerous occasions, with others, such as RaMBaN, Pirke, etc) is actually, Ra(bbi) M(oses) Ba(ni) M(aimon), aka Maimonides, of the 12th cent Morocco & Egypt (during the Almoravid (Muslim) empire, and died under the Ayyubid sultanate) - Link

[3.] RaMBaM's listing isn't the only one. There are other listings, by other Rabbis, all several thousand years removed from Moses or Joshua, and the website provided demonstrates the accuracy of this point.

[4.] RaMBaM's order of listing isn't the only one. There are other orderings, by other Rabbis and persons non-Rabbi (scholars, etc), and again, the very website provided, demonstrates this by stating it out as matters of fact, and in personal ordered listing preferred instead to RaMBaM's (example 2 orders at least on the face of it).

[5.] RaMBaM's explanation for the listing and ordering thereof is not the only one. There are explanations, just as there are other listings and orderings by other Rabbis, etc. (generally, not exclusively, following after RaMBaM, (thus post 12th cent), possible just more easily accessible)

[6.] The '613' number is for some calculated on Gematraic principles, with differing reasons or starting points by differing Rabbis, and for this reason, some disagree that it should be said number, for instance:

"... I disagree there are 613 Mitzvot because the explanation for the number is based on gematria, however the gematria of the Torah is not Standard ( Long preview of 'The Genesis Wheel: & other hermeneutical essays'. ). Instead of the letters Shin and Tav having the value of 300 and 400, they are valued at 3 and 4, and using this most secret gematria the number of Mitzvot would be 217 (31 × 7). However 613 is discovered with this gematria in the opening verses of Genesis so it is still a very significant gematria number.

We first get the idea of 613 mitzvot from Rabbi Simlai:

From Makkot 24a:

"דרש רבי שמלאי שש מאות ושלש עשרה מצות נאמרו לו למשה שלש מאות וששים וחמש לאוין כמנין ימות החמה ומאתים וארבעים ושמונה עשה כנגד איבריו של אדם אמר רב המנונא מאי קרא (דברים לג, ד) תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה תורה בגימטריא שית מאה וחד סרי הוי אנכי ולא יהיה לך מפי הגבורה שמענום

§ Rabbi Simlai taught: There were 613 mitzvot stated to Moses in the Torah, consisting of 365 prohibitions corresponding to the number of days in the solar year, and 248 positive mitzvot corresponding to the number of a person’s limbs. Rav Hamnuna said: What is the verse that alludes to this? It is written: “Moses commanded to us the Torah, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deuteronomy 34:4). The word Torah, in terms of its numerical value [gimatriyya], is 611, the number of mitzvot that were received and taught by Moses our teacher. In addition, there are two mitzvot: “I am the Lord your God” and: “You shall have no other gods” (Exodus 20:2, 3), the first two of the Ten Commandments, that we heard from the mouth of the Almighty, for a total of 613."[1]

However the word תורה is valued at 215; Tav:4 + Vav:6 + Resh:200 + Heh:5 = 215. So if we add the two for the first two commandments the people heard at Sinai: 215 + 2 = 217.

Regarding the number of צִיצִית which is supposed to equal the number of Mitzvot:

Rashi "וזכרתם את כל מצות ה'. שֶׁמִּנְיַן גִּימַטְרִיָּא שֶׁל צִיצִית שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת, וּשְׁמוֹנָה חוּטִין וַחֲמִשָּׁה קְשָׁרִים הֲרֵי תרי"ג (תנחומא): You will remember all of Adonoy’s commandments. As the numerical value of צִיצִית is 600, and the eight threads and five knots equal 613."[2]

צִיצִית = 204

plus 8 threads and 5 knots = 217.

You can check the sums on this gematria calculator which uses the correct gematria of the Torah; Shematria

Vilna Gaon in Orot Hagra also disagreed that 613 was the correct number, saying;

It definitely cannot be said that only 613, and no more, come under the category of mitzvot. For if so, there are only three mitzvot from Berei**** until Bo, and many portions of the Torah contain no mitzvot. That is not plausible… The mitzvot are thus multitudinous beyond enumeration… ..." - Are there really 613 Mitzvot? : Gematria

[7.] Moses specifically said by inspiration of God, that what God spoke and wrote at Mt. Sinai with His own voice and finger from Heaven were "the ten commandments". God came down upon Mt. Sinai in awesome majesty, with the whole mountain covered in the fire of the presence of the Holy Angels of God, so that none but those whom God called up were able to come near.

Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deu_10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.

In each place the Hebrew word "[1697] dabar" is used, as the Ten Commandments are not merely laws or commands, but individual promises of God each that He would perform in those who would walk in His covenant. More on that later as needful.

[8.] The "ten commandments" that God spake in Person to all the people without the mediator Moses, were a complete Law, nothing further being added unto them, except later as to be written in a scroll/book through a mediator (Moses):

Deu_5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

[9.] The "ten commandments" were written by God's own finger originally on sapphire stone and which second set was placed into the "pattern" Ark of the Covenant in the earthly tabernacle (Exodus 25:16,21).

[10.] The other precepts, statutes, laws, commands, ordinances, etc were all given by God through the mediator Moses, to be written by Moses' hand, and placed not inside of the Ark, but to be placed in the side of the Ark:

Deu_31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

So, while important, God makes distinction, by several means. The many other things which God gave fall under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments:

Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.

and as such '613' probably wouldn't even come close to the depth of God's Ten Commandments, which are the expansion of His perfect character of Love, which itself is expressed in the greatest (Deuteronomy 6:5) and second greatest commandments (Leviticus 19:17-18) (both of whose contexts are the Ten Commandments, see Deut. 5, etc).

[11.] The '613' enumeration only considers material within the texts of the Torah (Gen-Deut), and not any other material from the Nevi'im or Ketuvim, as if God somehow stopped talking and giving commands through men, priests or prophets or kings, see Isaiah 8:20 (Law and Testimony)

[12.] Even from a basic search of scripture, the Torah itself makes differences between words:

Gen 26:5 KJB Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 26:5 KJB Str. BecauseH6118 thatH834 AbrahamH85 obeyedH8085 my voice,H6963 and keptH8104 my charge,H4931 my commandments,H4687 my statutes,H2708 and my laws.H8451

Gen 26:5 HOT עקב אשׁר־שׁמע אברהם בקלי וישׁמר משׁמרתי מצותי חקותי ותורתי׃

Gen 26:5 HOT Str. עקבH6118 אשׁרH834 שׁמעH8085 אברהםH85 בקליH6963 וישׁמרH8104 משׁמרתיH4931 מצותיH4687 חקותיH2708 ותורתי׃H8451 (apologies for how this posts, not much can be done about that, I used highligher to mark the beginning and ending, so while the sentence reads left to right, each individual word correctly reads right to left)

Gen 26:5 HOT Translit. ëqev ásher-shäma av'rähäm B'qoliy waYish'mor mish'mar'Tiy mitz'wotay chuQôtay w'tôrotäy

Notice the distinction made between H4687 (mitzvot) and H8451 (torah), which is again found in Exodus 16:28,

Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

This should suffice for now.
 
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The Slaying of the Sacrificial Lamb is not the Offering... the sprinkling of the blood on the altar is.

Jesus is called our Passover Lamb.

1 Corinthians 5:7 says, “Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”

We are reconciled unto God by His body upon the cross.

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:” (Ephesians 2:16).

“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” (Romans 5:10).

“For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.” (Hebrews 9:26).

Besides, even if you did believe that till does not change anything. His first ascension after He told Mary not to touch Him in John 20:17 was the event that bridged the gap between God the Father and mankind with Jesus being our Heavenly High Priest, and Acts of the Apostles 1:9 is the second ascension to sit down at the right hand of God the Father. The first asension deals with salvation, and the other does not.
 
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Almost everyone agrees (whether they keep the 7th day of the week holy or not) - that Christ was resurrected on what the Bible calls "week day 1" and that this is what we call Sunday today.

But the question you ask in the OP is not "what day of the week was Christ resurrected". If that were the question I think you would find a lot more agreement in the voting poll.

What Bible texts speak of the following --
1. The Lord's Day -- only 1... and that is in Revelation chapter 1.
2. The "Holy Day of the Lord" Isaiah 58:13 -- (only one verse I think)
3. "The Son of Man is LORD of the " and then identifies a day of the week. Mark 2:28

Check out this thread here:

My New Chronology on the Passion Week
 
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AmigodeJesus

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Breaking the least of the 600+ commands (Jots & Tittles) ...
You do realize that neither "jot" (ιωτα' G2503) nor "tittle" (κεραια; G2762)(Matthew 5:18) are the diacritics or commandments?

A "jot" (ιωτα) is a whole Letter, such as the smallest Greek letter 'iota' (ί; 9th letter), and also to the Hebrew "letter" (not a diacritic), being the tenth letter of the Hebrew Aleph-Bet:

greek-alphabet-lowercase%2B2.jpg


Psa 119:73 JOD. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.​

A "tittle" (κεραια) is a reference to a 'hook', curved as a horn (https://lexicon.katabiblon.com/index.php?lemma=κεραία), and is the smallest/least part of the whole Hebrew letter "jod" (yod), which is the "qotz":

Hebrew%2BAlphabet.gif


jot%2Band%2Btittle.jpg


Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.​

The diacritics didn't come until later, as we can see from the Dead Sea Scrolls, which have no diacritics, just look at the Isaiah Scroll:

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

Link
Great_Isaiah_Scroll.jpg


The silver Keteef Hinnom scrolls also have no diacritics:

Birkat_kohanim_22.jpg


None of the Steele's use diacritics:

jrslm_300116_tel_dan_stele_01.jpg


Hezekiah's tunnel inscription:

siloam_inscription_small.jpg

Even the foreign nations surrounding Israel, didn't use the diacritics on their recording of the Hebrew, such as the Moabite Stone:

moabite-stone-small.jpg


For instance, "... In 1624, Louis Cappel, a French Huguenot scholar at Saumur, published a work in which he concluded that the vowel points were a later addition to the biblical text and that the vowel points were added not earlier than the fifth century AD ..." - Hebrew diacritics - Wikipedia

The whole "jot" and "tittle" referring to diacritics is a modern myth.
 
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No, actually it does as already stated. Simply posting a link to further error does not justify your position.

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]
Jesus at Lazarus' house in Bethany [Mt. Olivet] – [John 12:1]

[the first [day] of the week]Jesus Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem, "the next day" from leaving Lazarus' house, Hosanna! - [John 12:12,13; Matthew 21:10; Mark 11:11], goes to the Temple, and after looking around, leaves, since it was close to evening back out unto Mt. Olivet.

[the second [day] of the week]
Jesus comes back, curses the fig tree, goes to the Temple, and cleanses the Temple for the Second [last] time of the Money Changers - [Matthew 21:12,13,17; Mark 11:12,15,16,17,19], and Jesus goes back out.

[the third [day] of the week]
Jesus comes back, the Fig tree is withered up from the roots, goes to the Temple, and has the final teachings to the Pharisees, etc - [Matthew 21:18,23; Mark 11:20,27].

This was the "two days" before the "Passover" - [Matthew 26:1-2; Mark 14:1; Luke 21:37-38, 22:1].

Jesus tells the Jewish nation, that their house is forever left desolate, no more fruit again - [Matthew 23:37-39; Luke 13:32-35].

Jesus said, that He still had to do "cures" and "cast out devils" "to day, tomorrow and the third day" and be done - [Luke 13:32,33]

Jesus had been "daily" in the Temple - [Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 19:47, 22:53; John 18:20]

[the fourth [day] of the week]
The "tomorrow" [Luke 13:32,33]

[the fifth [day] of the week]
The "Third Day" [Luke 13:32,33], being done.

[the sixth [day] of the week; preparation]
Gather twice as much, Christ Jesus the anti-typical Manna, Exodus 16:25,26
The "spices" "had been" [Mark 16;1] purchased sometime after the Crucifixion and before burial so that they could "prepare" [Luke 23:56] them to bring on the "first [day] of the week" [Luke 24:1], even as we see Joseph of Arimathaea doing for the linen - [Mark 14:46]

1st Evening Part - [Matthew 26:31,34; Mark 14:27,30]
1st Morning [Light] Part - [Matthew 27:21; Mark 15:1]

Aviv/Nisan 14th; Christ Jesus our Passover is Sacrificed for us - [1 Corinthians 5:7],

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]
Jesus remained in the Tomb all Sabbath - anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:29,30
The Disciples were keeping the Sabbath according to the Commandment - [Exodus 20:8-11; Luke 23:54,56]

2nd Evening and 2nd Morning Parts - [Matthew 27:58-66, 28:1; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:52-53,54; John 19:38-42]

Aviv/Nisan 15th - Seasonal Feast Sabbath [First Day of Unleavened Bread, without corruption] - [Leviticus 23:5-8]

[the first [day] of the week]
Christ Jesus, preserved and Risen - Anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:32-34
3rd Evening and 3rd Morning Parts, Christ Risen and shown alive - [Matthew 28:1-10; Mark 16:2-20; Luke 24:1-29; John 20:1-23]

Aviv/Nisan 16th; Christ the Firstfruits/Wavesheaf Offering, Anti-Type Resurrection - [1 Corinthians 15:20,23].

Jesus was walking with the disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the "first [day] of the week", as the day was closing out, being "the third day since these things" were done [Luke 24:21],

[the second [day] of the week]
Jesus was still walking with the two disciples on the Road to Emmaus as the first [day] of the week was closing, and it becomes Evening - [Luke 24:29,35, etc]

No offense, but this timeline does not compute. You say that the day after Christ's sacrifice was the 7th day of the week or the Saturday Sabbath. This would mean you believe in the false traditional view that Jesus died on a Friday.

Do the math. Jesus died on the 9th hour
(Which is another way of saying 3:00 PM).
72 hours (or 3 days and 3 nights) from Friday at 3:00 PM would be Monday at 3:00 PM, and not Sunday early morning (while it was dark). That would not even be three days and three nights.

Let's look at your timeline:

Friday - Daylight ½th of a day (Death on the cross).
Friday - Night #1 (Jewish Saturday begins at sunset).
Saturday - Full Day #1.
Saturday - Night #2 (Jewish Sunday begins at sunset).
Sunday - Early morning (at night time) (No count #) (Risen?)​

Your Total: = 1 Day and ½th, and 2 nights.
This is not 3 days and 3 nights.
So your Math is off, my friend.
 
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Swan7

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You have to read in contextual history of their calendar, not ours.

The Lord’s Day is a foreshadowing of the one to come. If you are asking about the Sabbath then I’d have to say Jesus Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, as it is written. :yellowheart:
 
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BobRyan

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No offense, but this timeline does not compute. You say that the day after Christ's sacrifice was the 7th day of the week or the Saturday Sabbath. This would mean you believe in the false traditional view that Jesus died on a Friday.

Do the math. Jesus died on the 9th hour
(Which is another way of saying 3:00 PM).
72 hours (or 3 days and 3 nights) from Friday at 3:00 PM would be Monday at 3:00 PM, and not Sunday early morning (while it was dark). That would not even be three days and three nights.

Let's look at your timeline:

Friday - Daylight ½th of a day (Death on the cross).
Friday - Night #1 (Jewish Saturday begins at sunset).
Saturday - Full Day #1.
Saturday - Night #2 (Jewish Sunday begins at sunset).
Sunday - Early morning (at night time) (No count #) (Risen?)​

Your Total: = 1 Day and ½th, and 2 nights.
This is not 3 days and 3 nights.
So your Math is off, my friend.

They used inclusive reckoning so any part of the day was included as the day.

Luke 24 - says the first day of the week late in the after noon "Is the third day since all these things happened". That can only be true if you use inclusive reckoning.

“Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?” 19 And He said to them, “What things?” And they said to Him, “The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.

That makes Sunday very late in the day "the third day" - which means Friday is the first day, Saturday the second and Sunday the 3rd.
 
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"... The first definite appearance of the Wednesday-Saturday belief in Sabbatarian sources occurred in 1724. In that year George Carlow, a British Seventh Day Baptist ..." - A History of the Saturday Resurrection Doctrine

Here is that Book, by George Carlow - A defense of the Sabbath, in reply to Ward on the fourth commandment : Carlow, George : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Actually, never heard of him. I learned what I did through study of God's Word and prayer and research. The wisdom of God's Word is not learned from men, but by the Holy Spirit and by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

You said:
"... So your Pentecost opinion is utterly overthrown with that, for Christ's death was not on the sixth day. The fifteenth day of the first month Nisan, when Christ was crucified and died, fell that year on the fourth day of the week, i.e. Wednesday, at the end of which day our blessed Jesus was buried, from which time to the end of the seventh-day Sabbath was three days and three nights, the term of time that our Lord foretold he should lie in the grave. Matt. 12:40. So that there were two days between the day of Jesus' death and the seventh-day Sabbath, and one day between that high Sabbath and the seventh-day Sabbath. ..." - Truth Defended: Or, Observations on Mr. Ward's Expositary [sic] Discourses, from the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th Verses of the 20th Chapter of Exodus, Concerning the Sabbath. By George Carlow, page 109 - A defense of the Sabbath, in reply to Ward on the fourth commandment

George Carlow was a seventh-day Baptist, attempting (incorrectly) to prove the significance of the 7th day the sabbath. If you accept his assertions, then you must accept his conclusions (which you do not in regards the seventh day). He erred in many instances in just the above quotation. He assumes the wrong year, and thus lands on the wrong date.

A Wednesday crucifixion and a Saturday resurrection is the only model that works with 3 days and 3 nights and Christ's tomb being empty already early in the morning when it was dark. Just do the math of 72 hours.

You said:
He incorrectly equates the phrase "in the heart of the earth" to being only to the time Jesus was to "in the grave", and only cited a single reference of Matthew 12:40, of which text does not equate in the heart of the earth to being buried exclusively, or even at all. That is building a doctrine on a single verse, and we are warning in scripture to not to do that, as you need it in the mouth of two or three witnesses in every case, being line upon line, spiritual with spiritual. Not merely a single peg, which may be spun in any direction outside of its proper contexts.

I don't care what he believes. Me and you are talking right now, and I am not siding with any one person. I believe what I do not based on any one person or church. The heart of the earth is sheol or the realm of the dead where we read about the story of Lazarus and the richman.
 
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The Lord's Day is Sunday:

Revelation 1:10 mentions the “Lord's day.”

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, ...” (Revelation 1:10).​

Some believe this day to be Sunday, and others believe this day to be Saturday (i.e. the Saturday Sabbath, or the seventh day [last day] of the week). Let's examine Scripture to find out what the Lord's day is.

---------------------------------------------------------

Mary, Peter, and others witness the empty tomb:

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.” (John 20:1).

6 “Then cometh Simon Peter... and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.” (John 20:6-7).

“...yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
(John 20:9).

10 “Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping:” (John 20:10-11).

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener,...” (John 20:15).

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.​

Here we see on “the first day” of the week (Sunday) that Jesus was already risen, and He shows Himself to Mary and tells her, “I ascend (rise) unto my Father.” Mary later tells the disciples that she has seen “the Lord.”

This is the Lord's day in that He had ascended or risen to the Father.

-------------------------------------------------

On the Road to Emmaus:

Jesus (with his identity hidden) talked with two men on the road to Emmaus about His death and resurrection:

The two men said:

“Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.” (Luke 24:22-23).​

Jesus said unto them:

“O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? (Luke 24:25-26).​

Later, after Jesus revealed his full identity to them (in who He was) at dinner and departed:

The two men said:

32 “And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.” (Luke 24:32-35).​

The Lord is risen indeed!
Jesus ascended or had risen to His Father!
This was on the first day the disciples discovered the empty tomb!
This is the Lord's day. The culmination or climactic high point of God's story in the salvation of mankind. He is risen! The Lord is risen! The Lord is risen indeed! The first day of the week! The Lord's day! Sunday!

For Christians would be known for gathering on Sunday or the first day of the week (Which is based on Scripture).
You can keep whatever day you think is the Lords. But the Lords day is definitely not on Sunday the law has not changed. I am also by no means saying we arent saved by grace thru faith but we still have to follow the ten commandents. The Lords day did not change because he rose on a sunday or because he said rest in me. The idea that Sunday is the new sabbath is a false teaching.
The 4th commandments says:

Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Jesus Christ said:
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Yes we are under a new covenant but torah is still in place. If you are following the ten commandments you are following torah already without realizing it.

Gods Sabbath Rest:
Hebrews 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Saturday Sabbath has nothing to do with being a jew or old testament law. Its for jews and gentiles. The Bible is all one book its not half and half, its not only new testament for new covenant.
 
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They used inclusive reckoning so any part of the day was included as the day.

Luke 24 - says the first day of the week late in the after noon "Is the third day since all these things happened". That can only be true if you use inclusive reckoning.

“Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?” 19 And He said to them, “What things?” And they said to Him, “The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.

That makes Sunday very late in the day "the third day" - which means Friday is the first day, Saturday the second and Sunday the 3rd.

No. Luke 24:21 is not counting the day that they were in. They were simply referring to the prophecy of Jesus involving the three days. They simply are saying that it was the third day (or three days total) by their count in the moment (or day) since this prophecy of Jesus has happened.

  1. Crucified (Wednesday) at 3:00PM. ½ of a day.
  2. Thursday all day. (1 day)
  3. Friday all day. (1 day)
  4. Saturday at 3:00PM. ½ of a day.

Here is a snippet from an article:

It makes no sense to complain about the third day being gone unless the third day actually is completely gone. If the day they were speaking on was "this third day", then they would have to wait to the end of it before claiming that the prophecy was unfulfilled. Luke 24:21 begins, “we had hoped …” and then the remark about the third day passing by is made because it was evidence to them that their hope was dashed. In other words, the prophecy they thought was unfulfilled!

Whenever someone makes an eschatological prediction that something will happen on a given day, then the followers of the prophet always wait to the end of that day before they give up hope. They don't give up hope while the predicted day is still ongoing.

Source used:
Translating Luke 24:21
 
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You can keep whatever day you think is the Lords.

I believe all days are alike, and Jesus is our Sabbath rest now.

You said:
But the Lords day is definitely not on Sunday

The Lord refers to Jesus. The big day of our Lord was His resurrection and not the keeping of the Sabbath.

the law has not changed.

The Law sure has changed. Scripture says so.

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
(Hebrews 7:12).

I am also by no means saying we arent saved by grace thru faith but we still have to follow the ten commandents.

I believe obedience is a part of eternal life after we are saved by God's grace. But this would be obedience to the commands in the New Testament, and not the Old Testament. 9 out of the 10 commands have been repeated in the New (Sabbath excluded). Colossians 2:14 says that Christ blotted out and nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Colossians 2:16 says that we are not to let any person judge us in regards to Sabbaths. Meaning, if somebody tells me that I must keep the Saturday Sabbath, I am not to let them judge me based on Colossians 2:16.

You said:
The Lords day did not change because he rose on a sunday or because he said rest in me. The idea that Sunday is the new sabbath is a false teaching.

I do not believe Sunday is the new Sabbath. The Saturday Sabbath is still the weekly Sabbath, it is just no longer a binding command anymore (Anymore than we are to obey obey the Law to stone people for not keeping the Sabbath).

You said:
The 4th commandments says:

Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).


You said:
Yes we are under a new covenant but torah is still in place. If you are following the ten commandments you are following torah already without realizing it.

No. The Torah is no longer in place.

You said:
Gods Sabbath Rest:
Hebrews 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Saturday Sabbath has nothing to do with being a jew or old testament law. Its for jews and gentiles. The Bible is all one book its not half and half, its not only new testament for new covenant.

Verse 11 refers to how we need to labor to enter into this rest otherwise (lest) that person will fall away by the same example of unbelief.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” (Hebrews 4:16).

Jesus says, “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

Jesus is our Sabbath rest. It is not the Sabbath day anymore.
 
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Jesus Christ said:
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Surely if the Old Law was still in effect, then we would be sacrificing animals still and the temple veil would not have been torn from top to bottom.

In Matthew 5:17-18: I believe Jesus referred to the word "law" as in reference to all law in general. In other words, Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).

Think of the Law in being kind of like an apple seed. If I took a hammer and smashed the apple seed, I would be abolishing or destroying the Law altogether in it's entirety. But if I took that apple seed and planted it into the ground and watered it, and I fed it proper nutrients, the apple seed could grow into an apple tree (Which is it's intended fulfilled purpose).

In other words, the Old Law is fulfilled by the New Law (Which was given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers). For many of the New Laws conflict with the Laws in the Old Covenant. One cannot obey both the Old Covenant Law and the New Covenant Law. It is impossible. These two different sets of Laws (i.e. the Old and the New) conflict with each other.
 
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