Two women in Revelation 17

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Did He not say that He reveals His plans to His prophets? (Amos 3: 7)

Amos 3:7 KJV
[7] Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Mediate on these two verses.

And is it a coincident that the Quartet of Power are - UK & USA, EU, Russia & the UN. They have emblems that are recognised today as - Lion, Eagle, Bear & leopard. The first 4 great powers control the G7, G20 & the UN. So is all that just a coincident????

Look...why don't you go ahead and read the verses and explain to us what God said here:

Daniel 7:2-7 KJV
[2] Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
[3] And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
[4] The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
[5] And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
[6] After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
[7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Here is homework for you to do:

1.) What are the four winds of the heaven represent?
2.) What does the great sea represent?
3.) What does the Lion represent?
4.) Eagle's wings represent?
5.) Why do the Eagle's wings plucked and make the lion stand up upon the feet as a man?
6.) Why is man's heart was given to a lion?
7.) What does the Bear represent?
8.) Why was the bear raised up itself on one side and has its three ribs in its mouth? What does it mean?
9.) What does the Leopard represent? What do four wings of a fowl represent? Four heads? What dominion was given to it?
10.) Why is the fourth beast dreadful and terrible? Why is it different from first beasts?
11.) What do the ten horns represent?

I want to see if you know how to compare Daniel 7 with the rest of Scripture to find God's definition for these animals and go from there. And no God did not tell you to look for "emblems" for interpreation. Do you realize that the Eagle was not a separate beast itself as one of four beasts in the vision so your four emblems theory already fell face down anyway.

Take your time and..."study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth," 2Ti 2:15. Not speculations.

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

DavidPT said:
Number 1 and 8 are obviously referring to the same woman. So where can this other woman you are alleging be found? There is no other woman mentioned in this chapter.

I thought exactly.

Hey, Douggg, we are waiting for your Scripture support of "other woman" in Revelation 17. Explain yourself. And no, don't show us the chart. We want verses.

Your chart also appears to ignore ch 18 altogether. How can you possibly expect to determine all of these things apart from ch 18? Does not ch 18 reveal that the woman in question is meaning Babylon the great? Wouldn't that mean the great city in number 8 above is meaning Babylon the great?

Boom. Like I said, Douggg has refused to compare Revelation 17 with the rest of Scripture.

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

DavidPT said:
4---a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

DavidPT said:
1---the great harlot

DavidPT said:
8---the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

DavidPT said:
Number 1 and 8 are obviously referring to the same woman. So where can this other woman you are alleging be found? There is no other woman mentioned in this chapter

Hi David, let's just focus on these.

You see one beast and one woman in Revelation 17.

I see three beasts and two women. Because of the mystery of the woman and of the beast she was riding. Revelation 17:7.

First, the three beasts...

1. Satan, the scarlet colored beast in the wilderness scene.

2. The beast that was and is not, in the bottomless pit - who some day will ascend out of - which I take to be the serpent beast in the garden used by Satan to get Adan and Eve to sin. Revelation 17:8a

3. The beast that the people of the world will wonder, when they behold who was, is not, yet is - which I take to be the end times person formerly the little horn, formerly the Antichrist - also used by Satan. Revelation 17:8b

Second,the two women....

1. The great harlot in Revelation 17:1 who gets destroyed in the end times when the ten kings have given their kingdom over to beast 3 above. The great harlot associated with the place of seven mountains.

2. The woman in Revelation 17:3-4 in the desert who is the mother of harlots (the great harlot being one of them) who is Mystery Babylon the Great - which I take to be the mystical Kingdom of Satan and his third of the angels. Having influence rule over all the nations of the earth and humanity, ever since the garden of eden.

In Revelation 18, and Revelation 14:8, Babylon is fallen is fallen, is
referring to the demise of Satan and his third of the angels Kingdom.

The content of Revelation 18 is of an analogy about a great trading city that suddenly gets destroyed. The actual falling of Satan and his third of the angels kingdom takes place in Revelation 12:7-9 when Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth, from the second heaven, just past the midpoint of the first half of the seven years.

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Hey, Douggg, we are waiting for your Scripture support of "other woman" in Revelation 17. Explain yourself. And no, don't show us the chart. We want verses.

See my post #103 above.

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

Douggg said:
See my post #103 above.

I did and I am sorry to say that your private interpretation does not make any biblical sense. For example, three beasts - One is Satan and two 'used' by Satan? And a "great harlot" is just one of the "mother of harlots." Does God actually say this in Revelation 17?

Okay...look...like I said, your doctrine is built upon speculations where God has not said. Enough said.

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
. For example, three beasts - One is Satan and two 'used' by Satan?

well I have asked you several times if you think that Satan himself, called that old serpent, was cursed to crawl on his belly in the dust in Genesis 3:14?

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

Douggg said:
well I have asked you several times if you think that Satan himself, called that old serpent, was cursed to crawl on his belly in the dust in Genesis 3:14?

It is not Satan you thought he was. He has not created being. He did not come from God, nor heaven. Rather, he is Eve's (and Adam's) spirit of disobedience of Eve and Adam! Let me explain a little.

The Serpent was cursed to symbolize the unclean spirit of man. That's why God told Israel they were forbidden to eat whatsoever goes about upon the belly (Leviticus 11:42) because that represented an unclean animal, signifying unsaved man (Acts 10:14; Acts 10:28; etc.). When we become saved, God has cleansed what was once unclean in the Spirit of Christ.

Micah 7:16-17

"The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee."

They lick the dust like a serpent because they have that cursed unclean spirit. Selah!

Here is the Serpent God cursed in Genesis to go upon its belly that the dust should be its food all the days of thy life. It's unsaved man that is at enmity with the Woman! Likewise, God called the Serpent subtil because the mind is a crafty and cunning part of mankind. It is what rationalizes away dishonesty, lawlessness and disobedience. This is why the Serpent in the Garden was called wily or subtil (cunning, crafty). Sin starts in the deep recesses of the mind through the spirit eyes of justification and rationalization.

2nd Corinthians 11:3

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, SO your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

For example, So, or [houto] "in-this manner" the mind is corrupted. In other words, that's the way it is corrupted. The serpent worked within Eve's mind. It wasn't an angelic being, it was her own spirit in lust that fells into corruption and leads her (and us) astray (James chapter 1). Moreover, see in this passage that the Apostle equates the Serpent beguiling or deceiving Eve to corruption of the mind from simplicity. The same scenario we see again of the corruption beginning in the mind's eye and leading to sin. Consistently we see the same portrait of the working of sin. The carnal lust Eve had come from the corruption in her mind so that mankind lost that virgin purity through their own lust. Not through a fallen angel from heaven, her own mind was corrupted by her own lust.

Think about for a moment. We all had a spirit of disobedience and his name is Satan. He was within us before we were made clean through born again. Consider when Christ called Peter Satan:
A spirit of disobedience. And God saw Judas' spirit "AS" the devil, just as Christ rebuked Peter as "Satan," because Peter's carnal spirit did not agree with Christ's Will.

Mark 8:31-33
[31] And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
[32] And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
[33] But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

It is not because Satan went into Peter and possessed him. Rather it was Peter's spirit of disobedience and not do the will of God that is trying to prevent Christ's work.

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
It is not Satan you thought he was. He has not created being. He did not come from God, nor heaven. Rather, he is Eve's (and Adam's) spirit of disobedience of Eve and Adam! Let me explain a little.

The serpent was not a created being?

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

The serpent beast is obviously a created being that died.

TribulationSigns said:
Not through a fallen angel from heaven, her own mind was corrupted by her own lust.

Satan was not in the garden of Eden?

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

____________________________________________________
In Revelation 17...

Revelation 17:3 the scarlet coloured beast = ?

Revelation 17:8a the beast in the bottomless pit = ?

Revelation 17:8b the beast who the people of the world shall wonder when they behold him = ?

nolidad · Aug 11, 2020

Douggg said:
Have you heard people (usually in the ministry) ask what is your "world view" ? Which a person could respond any number of ways, but the pastor has something he wants to say - so asks that lead-in question to get the ball rolling.

So, instead of my "world view", but similar in concept - my overall bible view is that the mystery of God is His plan to correct all that is wrong in the world begun in the garden of Eden, and Satan and his third of the angels rebellion. That's what's in my mind when I read Revelation.

And what you believe could very well be what teh mystery of God is! But unless you show and prove God revealed this to you, I would add "in my opinion". It is a much safer way than declaring things that haven't been declared yet!

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

nolidad said:
And what you believe could very well be what teh mystery of God is! But unless you show and prove God revealed this to you, I would add "in my opinion". It is a much safer way than declaring things that haven't been declared yet!

I did declare... "my overall bible view".
I get your point though.

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

Douggg said:
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

I know that you probably won't receive this understand...yet based on my studying, Lucifer is not who you believe he is (ie. good angel before becoming Satan).

The Lucifer that weakens or discomfits the nations is the messenger of the church who has the spirit of Antichrist to usurp God's word and rule by his own means. He's the sinful man, or as 2nd Thessalonians calls him, the man of lawlessness. The ruler who doesn't obey God's law because he has the spirit of disobedience.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

A falling away or separation "from" the truth of God's law to believe Satan's lies concerning what God said. Just as Adam and Eve did in the garden. Here is your Lucifer or falling star. It's the man who sins. The man not of righteousness, but of sin. The messenger (not angel) of the kingdom of heaven who has this spirit of disobedience to believe whatever he wants. You've all seen the Pastors and Ministers of the church who have gone astray teaching for doctrines of God the doctrines of men. This is no new thing.

Lucifer is a word meaning bright star, and is further defined by the additional pseudonym of "Son of the morning," or Son of light or dawn which is indicating God's people. Do you realize that God's people are called sons of the dawn because they represent Christ (Revelation 22:16)? In this language and context of the king of Babylon has fallen from heaven, it is symbolic of a once fallen bright star. The stars in Scripture are symbols representing the sons (or children, which is the same Hebrew word) of God. In other words, his corporate congregation. In the days of Isaiah, this was the Old Testament congregation of Israel, in the New Testament it is the congregation of the New Testament church. Corporately we are all stars or messengers (not angels) of God and just as the children of Israel were subject to falling, so the New Testament children of God are subject to falling. Consider God's very clear declaration of that in Revelation:

Revelation 2:1

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"

The Lord addresses these things to the messenger (not angel) of the church of Ephesus and has a severe warning to the messenger. Please remember that in chapter one Christ Himself interprets the 7 stars of the Church as the 7 messengers of the church. With this context in mind, notice carefully what the Lord says:

Revelation 2:4-5

"[Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

Once again, pay close attention to what the Lord specifically interpreted the candlestick as. He said it represented the church. Thus allowing the Scriptures to Interpret themselves, Christ has said to this fallen star, to repent and remember from where he had fallen or else God would remove his church out of its place. These aren't my words, this is what God specifically said in order that we might discern exactly what He is talking about. If we will receive it. Fallen stars don't represent angels, they represent messengers of God's house, like you, me and pastor, etc. The people of the congregation are stars of heaven. You see, The warfare in the kingdom of heaven was not the 3rd heaven, the paradise where God lives, rather, it is in the kingdom of heaven represented on earth, God's congregation where messengers are the stars! The Kingdom of heaven in which God spoke so many parables (Matthew 22:2-14) about during his ministry.

In this scenario of the ruler of Babylon being called Lucifer, a star that had fallen from heaven, it points to the stars or messenger of the Lord's congregation, just as it does in Revelation. Indeed, Babylon is a synonym for the unfaithful church as we've seen before and so it follows perfectly that this King of Babylon would be called a fallen star, and that Babylon would be used to represent the fallen church led by the sinful man, or man of sin (false prophets and teachers) ruled over by Satan. The language of Isaiah 14 is so framed to apply to the Babylonian king as he represents a shadow to reveal through him the great fall and destruction of those led by the spirit of Antichrist. A fall of God's congregation at the time of Christ, and a fall near the second coming of Christ when the sinful man dares to rule in God's house "as if" he were God.

If anyone wants to study about the anointed cherub that covering, Ezekiek 28:14 may read here.

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
I know that you probably won't receive this understand...yet based on my studying, Lucifer is not who you believe he is (ie. good angel before becoming Satan).

The Lucifer that weakens or discomfits the nations is the messenger of the church who has the spirit of Antichrist to usurp God's word and rule by his own means. He's the sinful man, or as 2nd Thessalonians calls him, the man of lawlessness. The ruler who doesn't obey God's law because he has the spirit of disobedience.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

A falling away or separation "from" the truth of God's law to believe Satan's lies concerning what God said. Just as Adam and Eve did in the garden. Here is your Lucifer or falling star. It's the man who sins. The man not of righteousness, but of sin. The messenger (not angel) of the kingdom of heaven who has this spirit of disobedience to believe whatever he wants. You've all seen the Pastors and Ministers of the church who have gone astray teaching for doctrines of God the doctrines of men. This is no new thing.

Lucifer is a word meaning bright star, and is further defined by the additional pseudonym of "Son of the morning," or Son of light or dawn which is indicating God's people. Do you realize that God's people are called sons of the dawn because they represent Christ (Revelation 22:16)? In this language and context of the king of Babylon has fallen from heaven, it is symbolic of a once fallen bright star. The stars in Scripture are symbols representing the sons (or children, which is the same Hebrew word) of God. In other words, his corporate congregation. In the days of Isaiah, this was the Old Testament congregation of Israel, in the New Testament it is the congregation of the New Testament church. Corporately we are all stars or messengers (not angels) of God and just as the children of Israel were subject to falling, so the New Testament children of God are subject to falling. Consider God's very clear declaration of that in Revelation:

Revelation 2:1

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"

The Lord addresses these things to the messenger (not angel) of the church of Ephesus and has a severe warning to the messenger. Please remember that in chapter one Christ Himself interprets the 7 stars of the Church as the 7 messengers of the church. With this context in mind, notice carefully what the Lord says:

Revelation 2:4-5

"[Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

Once again, pay close attention to what the Lord specifically interpreted the candlestick as. He said it represented the church. Thus allowing the Scriptures to Interpret themselves, Christ has said to this fallen star, to repent and remember from where he had fallen or else God would remove his church out of its place. These aren't my words, this is what God specifically said in order that we might discern exactly what He is talking about. If we will receive it. Fallen stars don't represent angels, they represent messengers of God's house, like you, me and pastor, etc. The people of the congregation are stars of heaven. You see, The warfare in the kingdom of heaven was not the 3rd heaven, the paradise where God lives, rather, it is in the kingdom of heaven represented on earth, God's congregation where messengers are the stars! The Kingdom of heaven in which God spoke so many parables (Matthew 22:2-14) about during his ministry.

In this scenario of the ruler of Babylon being called Lucifer, a star that had fallen from heaven, it points to the stars or messenger of the Lord's congregation, just as it does in Revelation. Indeed, Babylon is a synonym for the unfaithful church as we've seen before and so it follows perfectly that this King of Babylon would be called a fallen star, and that Babylon would be used to represent the fallen church led by the sinful man, or man of sin (false prophets and teachers) ruled over by Satan. The language of Isaiah 14 is so framed to apply to the Babylonian king as he represents a shadow to reveal through him the great fall and destruction of those led by the spirit of Antichrist. A fall of God's congregation at the time of Christ, and a fall near the second coming of Christ when the sinful man dares to rule in God's house "as if" he were God.

If anyone wants to study about the anointed cherub that covering, Ezekiek 28:14 may read here.

Well, your concept of the Antichrist is not based on the correct concept of "the" Christ. "the" Christ the concept is to be the King of Israel descending from David.

The Antichrist is a single person who will be anointed the King of Israel coming in his own name. Instead of and against the true Christ Jesus.

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

Douggg said:
Well, your concept of the Antichrist is not based on the correct concept of "the" Christ. "the" Christ the concept is to be the King of Israel descending from David.

The Antichrist is a single person who will be anointed the King of Israel coming in his own name. Instead of and against the true Christ Jesus.

Yeah, I have heard this before. Nowhere in the Scripture say Antichrist will be anointed King of Israel. You just made speculation over this. Next time, back it up with Scripture.

For anyone want to study who Antichrist really is, can read here.

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Yeah, I have heard this before. Nowhere in the Scripture say Antichrist will be anointed King of Israel. You just made speculation over this. Next time, back it up with Scripture.

I have scriptural basis. "Instead of"

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

"Christ, the King of Israel"

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Crowned.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

Douggg said:
I have scriptural basis. "Instead of"

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Please read the context. Who did Christ talk to? Were it the Jews who persecute Jesus who has done someting on the sabbath day. He did not talk about the antichrist.

"Christ, the King of Israel"

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Well, what does this has to do with antichrist? Nothing is said about antichrist.

Crowned.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

(Chuckle), of course you have been taught by "church tradition" that the white horse of Revelation 6:2 is the antichrist. I disagree because I know that is not what God talked about if you compare Scripture with Scripture on the white horse.

Douggg · Aug 11, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Please read the context. Who did Christ talk to? Were it the Jews who persecute Jesus who has done someting on the sabbath day. He did not talk about the antichrist.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Coming in the name of the Lord is a direct referral to being the King of Israel.

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

TribulationSigns said:
Well, what does this has to do with antichrist? Nothing is said about antichrist.

It indicates that the function of being the Christ is to be the King of Israel. Which you failed to do at your website when you attempted to identify what the Christ (and therefore the Antichrist) meant.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

TribulationSigns said:
of course you have been taught by "church tradition" that the white horse of Revelation 6:2 is the antichrist. I disagree because I know that is not what God talked about if you compare Scripture with Scripture on the white horse.

You don't know who I have been taught by. Now if you are confessing that you have been taught by church tradition, then I will take you at your word. But I am not saying that about myself, as it is not the case.

I have charts and you don't.

TribulationSigns · Aug 11, 2020

Douggg said:
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Coming in the name of the Lord is a direct referral to being the King of Israel.

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

It indicates that the function of being the Christ is to be the King of Israel. Which you failed to do at your website when you attempted to identify what the Christ (and therefore the Antichrist) meant.

Nothing is said about antichrist here. What about my website? It has not launched yet. Show me the website to prove that you know what you are talking about.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

You don't know who I have been taught by. Now if you are confessing that you have been taught by church tradition, then I will take you at your word. But I am not saying that about myself, as it is not the case.

Again this has nothing to do with Antichrist. Your premillennial teaching is what it is, regardless of church you are going to.

I have charts and you don't.

So? What did I say about that? Guess you did not listen well.

Marilyn C · Aug 12, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Amos 3:7 KJV
[7] Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Mediate on these two verses.

Look...why don't you go ahead and read the verses and explain to us what God said here:

Daniel 7:2-7 KJV
[2] Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
[3] And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
[4] The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
[5] And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
[6] After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
[7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Here is homework for you to do:

1.) What are the four winds of the heaven represent?
2.) What does the great sea represent?
3.) What does the Lion represent?
4.) Eagle's wings represent?
5.) Why do the Eagle's wings plucked and make the lion stand up upon the feet as a man?
6.) Why is man's heart was given to a lion?
7.) What does the Bear represent?
8.) Why was the bear raised up itself on one side and has its three ribs in its mouth? What does it mean?
9.) What does the Leopard represent? What do four wings of a fowl represent? Four heads? What dominion was given to it?
10.) Why is the fourth beast dreadful and terrible? Why is it different from first beasts?
11.) What do the ten horns represent?

I want to see if you know how to compare Daniel 7 with the rest of Scripture to find God's definition for these animals and go from there. And no God did not tell you to look for "emblems" for interpreation. Do you realize that the Eagle was not a separate beast itself as one of four beasts in the vision so your four emblems theory already fell face down anyway.

Take your time and..."study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth," 2Ti 2:15. Not speculations.

Actually I have written about those topics in my threads. However as you have done your homework to ask such good questions I will put it all together here for you and those reading. I have written your questions in bold print.

Marilyn C · Aug 12, 2020

What are the four winds of the heaven represent?

God`s word tell us who the 4 winds of heaven are -

`These are 4 spirits of heaven, who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` Zech. 6: 5)

Note winds and spirits are the same word in Hebrew - `rumach,` meaning, wind by resemblance of breath, spirit.

What does the great sea represent?

God says - ``the wicked are like the troubled sea.` (Isa. 57: 20)

Marilyn C · Aug 12, 2020

What does the Lion represent?

The `lion` beast is one of the four kingdoms that emerge from the peoples of the world. We see in God`s word that it represents `rulership.` (Gen. 49: 8 -10) Jacob was prophesying concerning his sons and to Judah he called a lion and that he would hold the sceptre of rulership.

The Director of International Academy of Heraldry, O. Neubecker, and one of the foremost in this field, explains - `The appearance of a lion as a heraldic beast by no means indicates that it is part of the native fauna of that country: its use comes from the significance attributed to it. The lion is the symbol of Royal Sovereignty and the eagle the symbol of Imperial Power.`

In combination we have the initial clue to the identity of this first contemporary great power to emerge. A sovereign Monarchy which exercised imperialistic power over a substantial area of the world. ie. An empire ruled by a Monarch.

Eagle's wings represent?

Further revelation was given to Daniel. `As I looked its wings were plucked off.` (Dan. 7: 4)

The empire lost its capacity for imperialistic expansion.
Part of the empire became a separate nation with the eagle as its emblem.

Why do the Eagle's wings plucked and make the lion stand up upon the feet as a man?

`It was made to stand on its two feet like a man: and the spirit of a man was given to it.` (Dan. 7: 4)

Here is transformation. Until now the outlook and operation had been that of a powerful beast, imperialistic conquering, domination and colonising.

Why is man's heart was given to a lion?

Suddenly there is a remarkable change to the higher qualities of the spirit of man. In political language, co-existing in freedom, peace and equality with its former dominions. An empire becomes a Commonwealth of nations.

H.M.Queen Elizabeth 2 as head of the Commonwealth, broadcasted - `The Commonwealth bears no resemblance to the empires of the past. It is an entirely new conception built on the highest qualities of the Spirit of Man; Friendship, loyalty and the desire for freedom and peace.`

Two women in Revelation 17

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

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