Jumpy Cops Shoot/Kill Another Non-Threatening Citizen After False Alarm

disciple Clint said:

the best time to calculate those statistics is when someone is kicking in your front door, they are armed but you have a firm hold on the laws of probability

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You might think that. Others have suggested forethought although I can understand that being a strange concept for some.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

You might think that. Others have suggested forethought although I can understand that being a strange concept for some.

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I could tell you how many times people told me "I never thought that would happen to me" but unfortunately it was too late for them to take the actions that might have prevented what happened. If you want to rely on luck and hope that is fine but people need to have the option to provide for their own security. We are looking at a situation now where depending on the police is not a viable option.

Phoenix PD and other agencies in AZ are known for having too high a shooting rate for their officers. They outpace other cities in incidents.
That's being looked into.

Then the officer who shot was behind the victim. The gun wasn't aimed at him. He wasn't in any perceivable danger. He overreacted.

And it's a shame that he wasn't trained enough before being sent out like that.
Now it's going to go badly for him on several fronts.
He shot an innocent man and killed him.
He is obviously going to lose his job.
He is likely facing criminal charges.
He is facing civil charges.

Likely going to need counseling for all the trouble he is going to go through...who would hire him for a job now?
Not going to work out for him in any capacity.

It’s really sad what happened but honestly the guy opens the door with a gun in his hand the first thing he should’ve done was stop and say I have a gun I’m putting it down. He should’ve never walked towards the officers. I’m not saying the officers were justified in shooting him at all I’m just saying that he put them in a very dangerous position and he didn’t approach them properly for a person holding a firearm. Anyone holding a gun when a police officer is present has to use extreme caution.

JohnDB said:

Phoenix PD and other agencies in AZ are known for having too high a shooting rate for their officers. They outpace other cities in incidents.
That's being looked into.

Then the officer who shot was behind the victim. The gun wasn't aimed at him. He wasn't in any perceivable danger. He overreacted.

And it's a shame that he wasn't trained enough before being sent out like that.
Now it's going to go badly for him on several fronts.
He shot an innocent man and killed him.
He is obviously going to lose his job.
He is likely facing criminal charges.
He is facing civil charges.

Likely going to need counseling for all the trouble he is going to go through...who would hire him for a job now?
Not going to work out for him in any capacity.

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Well that is almost totally incorrect. That was an appropriate use of force against an armed suspect who presented a viable threat to the officers.

JohnDB said:

Timing is terrible...
But it was a white guy this time...so no claims about a racist shooting this time.

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If he were black and was shot then it would’ve been because he was black that he was shot. When a white person is shot their race isn’t considered the cause of the shooting.

disciple Clint said:

Well that is almost totally incorrect. That was an appropriate use of force against an armed suspect who presented a viable threat to the officers.

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Watch the video and read the article.
Then see if you want to change your statement.

disciple Clint said:

I could tell you how many times people told me "I never thought that would happen to me" but unfortunately it was too late for them to take the actions that might have prevented what happened.

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Like their kid shooting his sibling ?

And yes it is kind of late to not buy that gun anymore.

JohnDB said:

Watch the video and read the article.
Then see if you want to change your statement.

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OK watched the video sill can not get much detail from it. Read the article which I had not previously read because I wanted to see the video without preconceptions. What I can see and the facts that are in the article indicate that this is a justified shooting. The man had a gun in his hand and the officers had reason to fear for their life. It is not unusual that the cover officer fired at him and the primary officer did not. It is the cover officers responsibility to protect the primary and the subject was moving towards the primary which resulted in the subject being shot in the back. These things happen very fast in real time, I would have shot him, I am certain that everyone that I know would have shot him. One thing I do not like, the officers should have given him as much medical attention as they could, even if it is obvious that he is not going to survive. They should both receive disciplinary action for failure to do that.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Like their kid shooting his sibling ?

And yes it is kind of late to not buy that gun anymore.

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If your child get your gun you are not much of a parent. You are also going to get criminal charges in most states, that gun is required to be locked. I keep my gun in a small wall safe, yes it is a pain in the butt to put it in and out all the time but it is safe and I can get it out real quickly if I need it.

disciple Clint said:

I would have shot him, I am certain that everyone that I know would have shot him.

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disciple Clint said:

I can get it out real quickly if I need it.

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Your posting is like anti gun add without even trying.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Your posting is like anti gun add without even trying.

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I am more and more convinced that you should never get near a gun. You will have to hope that someone with a gun is around to protect you if you need it. I can tell you that the only thing that is going to stop a killer with a gun is a well trained citizen with a gun.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Beats me. I have yet to see any study that indicates US as a society is a safer place for guns being readily available.

Or that gun ownership brings populace of ill trained civilians greater benefits than not owning a gun.

There is so much fear for things that are statistically so unlikely to ever happen for a person in US but media blows it out of the proportion and people would rather buy a shotgun than actually figure out statistically if they are ever going to need it or whatever it just made it that much more likely their kid will shoot someone with it.

This certainly includes the chances of getting shot by a cop or by anyone else either.

Statistics should beat perceptions.

Well, maybe one day.

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In 2019 there were 38,800 deaths as a result of auto accidents and 505 deaths as a result of firearm accidents in over 120 million gun owners in the US according to ATF.

disciple Clint said:

I can tell you that the only thing that is going to stop a killer with a gun is a well trained citizen with a gun.

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Too bad no training is required when purchasing a gun. Let alone so much of it that it would qualify majority of gun owners as “well trained”

Even if you are trained like George Floyd - who was a veteran - you can still get shot for just carrying a gun around by these “well trained” people.

disciple Clint said:

If your child get your gun you are not much of a parent. You are also going to get criminal charges in most states, that gun is required to be locked. I keep my gun in a small wall safe, yes it is a pain in the butt to put it in and out all the time but it is safe and I can get it out real quickly if I need it.

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Yeah same here, anyone who doesn’t keep their gun locked up isn't responsible enough to have one.

BNR32FAN said:

In 2019 there were 38,800 deaths as a result of auto accidents and 505 deaths as a result of firearm accidents in over 120 million gun owners in the US according to ATF.

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And about 300000 a year die from being obese. Probably bit more now with COVID introduced to the scene.

Obesity: Facts, Figures, Guidelines

So what did car accidents have to do with gun discussion and whatever having a gun or not having it is more hazardous for your health.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

And about 300000 a year die from being obese. Probably bit more now with COVID introduced to the scene.

Obesity: Facts, Figures, Guidelines

So what did car accidents have to do with gun discussion and whatever having a gun or not having it is more hazardous for your health.

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Well compare the UK’s burglary rate to America’s burglary rate. The UK is at 356,000 burglaries per year compared to America’s 1.2 million. But when you figure in that America’s population is 6 times that of the UK and the UK’s burglary rate is only 3 times less than America’s then it becomes apparent that the UK has twice the burglary rate as America. Probably because if someone is going to burglarize a home here in America they have to contemplate the possibility of someone having a gun whereas in the UK they don’t have to worry about it. Just the thought that the home your about to break into could potentially be your last is quite a deterrent.

BNR32FAN said:

Well compare the UK’s burglary rate to America’s burglary rate. The UK is at 356,000 burglaries per year compared to America’s 1.2 million. But when you figure in that America’s population is 6 times that of the UK and the UK’s burglary rate is only 3 times less than America’s then it becomes apparent that the UK has twice the burglary rate as America. Probably because if someone is going to burglarize a home here in America they have to contemplate the possibility of someone having a gun whereas in the UK they don’t have to worry about it. Just the thought that the home your about to break into could potentially be your last is quite a deterrent.

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I know of one case of home burglary that they caught the suspect at the hospital because they were getting the bullets out of his abdomen...the old WWII vet was aiming through the door at the guy's legs and missed.

BNR32FAN said:

Well compare the UK’s burglary rate to America’s burglary rate. The UK is at 356,000 burglaries per year compared to America’s 1.2 million. But when you figure in that America’s population is 6 times that of the UK and the UK’s burglary rate is only 3 times less than America’s then it becomes apparent that the UK has twice the burglary rate as America. Probably because if someone is going to burglarize a home here in America they have to contemplate the possibility of someone having a gun whereas in the UK they don’t have to worry about it. Just the thought that the home your about to break into could potentially be your last is quite a deterrent.

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Germany has about 100.000 burglaries per year, with 82 million people. Germany also has strict laws concerning gun ownership.

Correlation doesn't prove causation.

Tom 1 said:

He clearly goes to his knees and puts his hands out as soon as warned.

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But we all know that people should submit to the police before they're warned or realize they're police. By the time the cops identify themselves and give orders, it's too late. People deserve to get shot for not having that forethought.

Or, at least that's what the people on the right keep insisting in these threads, in not so many words.