The W

Soyeong · Aug 5, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness changed under the New Covenant, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it is eternal, therefore Hebrews 7:12 is not speaking about a change to the content of God's eternal law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit idolatry or sinful to help the poor. Rather, the context is speaking about a change in the priesthood, which would also require a change in the law in regard to its administration.

Bible Highlighter said:
For example: Believers today do not have to be circumcised or offer animal sacrifices.

In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld the Torah by correctly ruling against that requirement, and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against requiring what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

In Acts 18:18, Paul took a Nazarite vow, which involved making sin offerings (Numbers 6) and in Acts 21:20-24, Paul was on his way to pay for and join the purification rites of others who had taken a similar vow in order to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Law and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Hebrews 8:4, it speaks about offerings that were still being made in accordance with the Law. Furthermore, it says that Jesus would not be a priest if he were still on earth, and if the Law were no longer in effect, then it would have no power to do prevent that. So offerings did not stop with the death or resurrection of Jesus, but only stopped because of the destruction of the temple. However, the Bible prophesies of a time when a third temple will be built and when offerings will resume, so those laws have not gone anywhere (Ezekiel 44-46).

If the instructions of the Old Law are still in effect, then we need to obey all of the Old Law, but nobody today who is a Christian is really doing that. No Christian today is obeying all of the Law of Moses. If they do, they need to stone people for breaking certain aspects of the Law, etc.; Yet, Jesus told us to pray, and to love our enemies.

The issue of whether or not Christians are doing something is not the same as whether or not Christians ought to be doing something. Christ taught obedience to the Torah by word and by example and Christians are those who seek by faith to follow what Christ taught by word and by example. Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unlawful to enforce a penalty that has already been payed. Loving our enemies in accordance with Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22, not something brand new in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 5, 2020

Soyeong said:
If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness changed under the New Covenant, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it is eternal, therefore Hebrews 7:12 is not speaking about a change to the content of God's eternal law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit idolatry or sinful to help the poor. Rather, the context is speaking about a change in the priesthood, which would also require a change in the law in regard to its administration.

Then the Torah is no more if it is not exactly the same anymore. If we cannot obey the Torah exactly, it means we are no longer under the Torah.

You said:
In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld the Torah by correctly ruling against that requirement, and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against requiring what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

We are all one in Christ and there is no Jew or Gentile. So commands are the same between the Jews and Gentiles under the New Covenant. There is no one set of commands given to Jews and another set of commands given to Gentiles.

You said:
In Acts 18:18, Paul took a Nazarite vow, which involved making sin offerings (Numbers 6) and in Acts 21:20-24, Paul was on his way to pay for and join the purification rites of others who had taken a similar vow in order to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Law and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Hebrews 8:4, it speaks about offerings that were still being made in accordance with the Law. Furthermore, it says that Jesus would not be a priest if he were still on earth, and if the Law were no longer in effect, then it would have no power to do prevent that. So offerings did not stop with the death or resurrection of Jesus, but only stopped because of the destruction of the temple. However, the Bible prophesies of a time when a third temple will be built and when offerings will resume, so those laws have not gone anywhere (Ezekiel 44-46).

God's Word sometimes records men of God making mistakes. Paul made a mistake in going back to the Old Covenant ritual that involved animal sacrifice. Fortunately, GOD stopped Paul with going through the ritual entirely. I believe this was one of the reasons why the Spirit warned Paul not to go to Jerusalem.

You said:
The issue of whether or not Christians are doing something is not the same as whether or not Christians ought to be doing something. Christ taught obedience to the Torah by word and by example and Christians are those who seek by faith to follow what Christ taught by word and by example. Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unlawful to enforce a penalty that has already been payed. Loving our enemies in accordance with Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22, not something brand new in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2.

During His earthly ministry: Jesus taught primarily New Covenant and not Old Covenant. The Old was about to pass away during His ministry, and it did when He died upon the cross.

Soyeong · Aug 5, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
When looking at the Old Law one can categorize the Old Testament Mosaic Law (the 613 Laws of Moses) into a threefold division:

Moral Laws (Any Law pertaining to doing good as a part of nature).

Ceremonial Laws (Laws pertaining to ceremonies or rituals).

Civil Laws (Laws dealing with civil matters; Which includes Laws on carrying out justice).

Even before the written Law of Moses: We can see that there were Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.), and Ceremonial Laws (like: animal sacrifices).

God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still are in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial Laws or commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, dietary etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?

People are free to categorize the law in whatever manner they want, such as categorizing it based on which body part that is most commonly used to follow or transgress it, but that would not establish that any of the authors of the Bible ever categorized the law in the same manner. However, the problem comes when people want to insert their own categories back into the Bible in order to create their own doctrines out of them when the Bible never uses those categories, such as arbitrarily deciding which laws are eternal when in reality all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160).

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), so all of God's laws teach us how to act in accordance with His nature. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, so following those instructions is testifying to the nations about God's holy nature. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. The existence of the subcategory of moral law would imply the existence of a subcategory of laws that are moral to disobey, but there are no any examples in the Bible of disobedience to any of God's laws being considered to be moral.

Likewise, the Bible never defines which laws are ceremonial or civil as opposed to be moral, so it is up for anyone decide for themselves. Are laws in regard to marriage moral, ceremonial, or civil? Is the law against theft moral or civil? Take your pick. Just early today, I was talking with someone who thinks that everything but the Ten Commandments are ceremonial laws. The Bible does not define it, so it up for anyone to decide for themselves, but people should not arbitrarily decide that certain categories of law are no longer binding under the New Covenant when the New Covenant still involves following God's law (Hebrews 8:10).

Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:

Click to expand...

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves follow the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's law did not become obsolete along with it.

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

At no point in Romans 7:1-4 was the woman ever set free from needing to obey any of God's laws, and if she ever got married to a second husband after her first husband died, then she would once again be required to refrain from committing adultery, so none this leads to the conclusion that in that God's law is no more.

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law and served it within his mind, but contrasted it with the law of sin that held him captive, so Paul should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying the law that he delighted in obeying. If Romans 7:5-6 were referring to God's law, then that would mean that Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death and in being held captive, which is absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

Whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

These verses clearly describe what Paul was speaking about as being according to the commandments and doctrines of men, so he was not speaking about God's law.

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so Ephesians 2:15 couldn't be referring to any of God's laws. God did not make any mistakes when He gave the law, so He had no need to break down His own eternal laws. Furthermore, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

It is speaking about the New Covenant high priest, not about abolishing God's eternal law.

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

The time of reformation when there will be a new heavens and a new earth has not happened yet.

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

The way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is based on God's righteousness, not on a particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to do what is righteous are eternally valid regardless of which covenant we are under.

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

It does not say that the curtain being ripped means that God's eternal law has ended.

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

The reason that God commanded circumcision was not in order to become saved, so a ruling against something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses every Sabbath in the synagogues.

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people who were judging them as teaching human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans. This means that the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.

This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).

If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were to change under the New Covenant, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it is eternal, therefore Hebrews 7:12 is not speaking about changes to the content of God's law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit idolatry or sinful to help the poor, but rather in context it is speaking about a change in the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change in the law in regard to its adminstration.

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).

In John 1:16, it says grace upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the law. Verse 17 does not contain the word "but" in the Greek, rather they are both listed as examples of grace upon grace.

In conclusion:

Click to expand...

You sort of have to look at the Old Covenant (Old Testament) as one contract, and the New Covenant (New Testament) as another contract. It's kind of like a contract when you buy a house. If you did not like certain things in the contract, you could ask them to make some changes in the contract. If they agreed to the changes, you would then go by the new contract, and the old contract for the house would be discarded. There may be some similar things between the old contract, and the new contract, but you stick with the new contract in your dealing with buying the house. Meaning: This is why we seek to follow the New Covenant (New Testament) primarily even though there are certain laws that have carried over from the Old Covenant (Old Testament). We are clearly not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

God's laws are not arbitrarily given, but rather they are given to teach us about who He is, and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so if you think that Paul did that, then according to God you should regard Paul as being a false prophet, but he never did that. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that Paul has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. God simply did not give His people any room to follow someone claiming that His law has ended. The New Covenant does not involve rejecting anything that Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example, but rather it still involves following God's eternal law.

Soyeong · Aug 5, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
As for subtracting from the Torah:

First, Deuteronomy 4:2 is in reference to men and not God.

Second, Jesus spoke everything that the Father told him to say.

For Jesus said:

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” (John 12:49).

So any new commands that Jesus made was by the authority of change from God the Father. Plus, Jesus is GOD, as well. So this was not some mere human alone making changes to God's laws but GOD (the Word) incarnate (or made flesh) dispensing God the Father's new laws. GOD Himself is not subject to the Laws he makes for mankind. GOD can later change the very laws that He makes. His has such authority to change laws for mankind because He is GOD. In fact, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. These are words from the Bible (i.e. God's Holy Word).

Not all laws by God are applicable for all people. GOD told Noah to make an ark or boat because it was going to flood. We are obviously not under that command or Law. That Law or command was meant for Noah and the people during his time.

If you agree that Jesus only said what the Father commanded Him to say, then you should not interpret him as speaking against what the Father has commanded. If Jesus had done that, then that would be the clearest indication that he was a false prophet who was not speaking for the Father according to Deuteronomy 13:4-5. Christians teaching that Jesus did away with God's law are sadly one if the biggest reasons why Jews have rejected him as their Messiah, and if Jesus had done that, then they would be acting in accordance with what God has instructed them to do. God's nature is eternal, so the way to act in accordance with God's nature is not subject to change. If were ever in a situation where God was going to Flood the earth, then we should follow the precedent because God is not a respecter of persons.

Bible Highlighter said:
Then the Torah is no more if it is not exactly the same anymore. If we cannot obey the Torah exactly, it means we are no longer under the Torah.

The Israelites were given instructions for what to do once they had entered the Promised Land before they had entered it.

We are all one in Christ and there is no Jew or Gentile. So commands are the same between the Jews and Gentiles under the New Covenant. There is no one set of commands given to Jews and another set of commands given to Gentiles.

The both Jews and Gentiles should seek by faith to learn how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His Torah under the New Covenant.

God's Word sometimes records men of God making mistakes. Paul made a mistake in going back to the Old Covenant ritual that involved animal sacrifice. Fortunately, GOD stopped Paul with going through the ritual entirely. I believe this was one of the reasons why the Spirit warned Paul not to go to Jerusalem.

It does not say that Paul made a mistake.

During His earthly ministry: Jesus taught primarily New Covenant and not Old Covenant. The Old was about to pass away during His ministry, and it did when He died upon the cross.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel, which Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to the nations (Matthew 24:12-14). So how spent his ministry teaching how to live under the Mosaic Covenant and he did not go to the cross or establish New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example. In Titus 2:14, it says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what he accomplished on the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20) and will consider saying that he ended any laws to be undermining both his ministry and what he went to the cross the accomplish.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 5, 2020

Soyeong said:
People are free to categorize the law in whatever manner they want, such as categorizing it based on which body part that is most commonly used to follow or transgress it, but that would not establish that any of the authors of the Bible ever categorized the law in the same manner. However, the problem comes when people want to insert their own categories back into the Bible in order to create their own doctrines out of them when the Bible never uses those categories, such as arbitrarily deciding which laws are eternal when in reality all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160).

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), so all of God's laws teach us how to act in accordance with His nature. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, so following those instructions is testifying to the nations about God's holy nature. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. The existence of the subcategory of moral law would imply the existence of a subcategory of laws that are moral to disobey, but there are no any examples in the Bible of disobedience to any of God's laws being considered to be moral.

Likewise, the Bible never defines which laws are ceremonial or civil as opposed to be moral, so it is up for anyone decide for themselves. Are laws in regard to marriage moral, ceremonial, or civil? Is the law against theft moral or civil? Take your pick. Just early today, I was talking with someone who thinks that everything but the Ten Commandments are ceremonial laws. The Bible does not define it, so it up for anyone to decide for themselves, but people should not arbitrarily decide that certain categories of law are no longer binding under the New Covenant when the New Covenant still involves following God's law (Hebrews 8:10).

In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves follow the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's law did not become obsolete along with it.

At no point in Romans 7:1-4 was the woman ever set free from needing to obey any of God's laws, and if she ever got married to a second husband after her first husband died, then she would once again be required to refrain from committing adultery, so none this leads to the conclusion that in that God's law is no more.

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law and served it within his mind, but contrasted it with the law of sin that held him captive, so Paul should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying the law that he delighted in obeying. If Romans 7:5-6 were referring to God's law, then that would mean that Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death and in being held captive, which is absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

Whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

These verses clearly describe what Paul was speaking about as being according to the commandments and doctrines of men, so he was not speaking about God's law.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so Ephesians 2:15 couldn't be referring to any of God's laws. God did not make any mistakes when He gave the law, so He had no need to break down His own eternal laws. Furthermore, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

It is speaking about the New Covenant high priest, not about abolishing God's eternal law.

The time of reformation when there will be a new heavens and a new earth has not happened yet.

The way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is based on God's righteousness, not on a particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to do what is righteous are eternally valid regardless of which covenant we are under.

It does not say that the curtain being ripped means that God's eternal law has ended.

The reason that God commanded circumcision was not in order to become saved, so a ruling against something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses every Sabbath in the synagogues.

In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people who were judging them as teaching human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans. This means that the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.

If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were to change under the New Covenant, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it is eternal, therefore Hebrews 7:12 is not speaking about changes to the content of God's law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit idolatry or sinful to help the poor, but rather in context it is speaking about a change in the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change in the law in regard to its adminstration.

In John 1:16, it says grace upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the law. Verse 17 does not contain the word "but" in the Greek, rather they are both listed as examples of grace upon grace.

God's laws are not arbitrarily given, but rather they are given to teach us about who He is, and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so if you think that Paul did that, then according to God you should regard Paul as being a false prophet, but he never did that. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that Paul has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. God simply did not give His people any room to follow someone claiming that His law has ended. The New Covenant does not involve rejecting anything that Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example, but rather it still involves following God's eternal law.

No. Not all of God's laws are eternal. Nobody today is under the command to build an Ark, and nobody is under the command to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Those commands have come and gone. It is physically impossible to obey both the Old Covenant and New Covenant. But I am not going to argue with you or read over lengthy posts involving the Old Law. For it is written...

“But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.” (Titus 3:9).

Soyeong · Aug 6, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
No. Not all of God's laws are eternal. Nobody today is under the command to build an Ark, and nobody is under the command to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Those commands have come and gone.

God is not a respecter of persons, so if someone is in a similar situation to what God instructed in the Bible, then they should follow that precedent.

It is physically impossible to obey both the Old Covenant and New Covenant. But I am not going to argue with you or read over lengthy posts involving the Old Law. For it is written...

“But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.” (Titus 3:9).

I have not suggested that we should be under both covenants, but rather I have been speaking about how we should live under the New Covenant. If you cite many verses, then do you want me to interact with what you said by discussing how those verses should be interpreted or would you prefer if I did not respond to them?

In 1 Timothy 1:8, Paul said that the law is good if one uses it properly, so things that were only said against its improper uses should not be mistaken as being against its proper uses. God's law is His instructions for how to equip us to do every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and in Titus 3:1-8, Paul was exhorting them to do good works, so verse 9 should not be interpreted as undermining what Paul just finished saying.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 8, 2020

For me, I do not buy into the man made Jewish 613 argument that some protestants use to try and argue against the 10 commandments. This is a man made teaching that is not biblical when it comes to the scriptures.

It is a silly argument in my view as there is a difference between God's "eternal laws" written on stone and spoken with the mouth of God according to the scriptures and the "Shadow laws" written in the Mosaic book of the old covenant fulfilled in Christ that reveal Gods' plan of salvation for mankind spoken about in Hebrews, Colossians and Ephesians.

These old covenant law written in the book of the old covenant were prophetic shadows of things to come. In the new covenant God's law (10 commandments) has the same role it always had and that is to give us the knowledge of "Good and Evil"; "Sin and Righteousness" *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

According to God's Word in the new covenant if we willfiully and knowingly break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word according to the scriptures will not enter the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenenant an unholy thing doing dispite the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-29.

God bless

Bible Highlighter · Aug 8, 2020

A Moral Law is any law that a person knows to do good by instinct or by nature. For even the Gentiles who did not have the Law were able to do things contained in the Law (See: Romans 2:14). Surely 9 out of the 10 commandments are still applicable (Sabbath excluded). But there are even more moral laws besides the 9 out of the 10. inappropriate behavior with animals, and incest laws are moral laws in refraining to do evil and to alternatively do good by being either remaining celibate or to enter into monogamous marriage with a faithful believer of the opposite sex.

Things like the Saturday Sabbath was not a command that has repeated in the New Testament (or New Covenant) after the New Covenant went into effect officially with Christ's death. We do not see Christ's followers saying, “Thou shalt keep the Sabbath” or anything along those lines. Sure, Paul would go to the temple on the Sabbath to evangelize Jews, but that was a ministry effort and it was not Paul commanding us to keep the Sabbath. Paul says that some regard all days alike (See: Romans 14:5-6). Paul says we are not to let others judge us in regards to the Sabbaths and holy days, etc. (See: Colossians 2:16-17); Why? Because Christ nailed these ordinances to the cross (See: Colossians 2:14).

I highly doubt anyone even keeps the Israelite Sabbath today, anyways. One is supposed to celebrate the Saturday Sabbath on Friday at sundown, and then it would continue the next day (Saturday). Plus, there are other Sabbaths. Do you keep these other Sabbaths? Do you keep the other holy days?

Also, both sets of Laws between the Old Covenant and New Covenant conflict with each other. It is physically impossible to obey both of them entirely. Of course your Sabbatarian is going to pick and choose and say that the priesthood laws have ended and that is what Scripture is referring to. But clearly we see in Colossians 2:14-17 that the Sabbaths, and holy days, and dietary laws have ended. We see that the ceremonial laws like circumcision has clearly ended in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. Of course your Sabbatarians will not see this because they like to do these kinds of rituals (Despite our liberty in Christ).

Paul says if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This is in context to the Old Law because Paul talks about if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Circumcision is obviously a command of the Old Covenant (that was given to Abraham and Moses).

The weightier matters of the Law mentioned in Matthew 23:23 is in context to love, faith, justice, and mercy (Also see: Luke 11:42). In fact, Jesus referred to the ceremonial law of the Old Covenant (before the New Covenant went into effect with His death) when he spoke about how the Pharisees tithed mint, anise, and cummin. Jesus referred to how they should have focused more on loving, being merciful, having faith, and dealing fairly in matters of justice. In fact, 2 Corinthians 9:7 shows that there is no more tithing anymore. We are to give what God has purposed in our heart to give and not out of compulsion; For God loves a cheerful giver.

Anyways, in conclusion: Obedience is a part of everlasting life (See: Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Hebrews 5:9). We have to obey God's commands to enter into life, but this would be the commands that come from Jesus and His followers and not the commands given to us by Moses.

For the Law came by Moses, and grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17).

Bible Highlighter · Aug 8, 2020

Soyeong said:
God is not a respecter of persons, so if someone is in a similar situation to what God instructed in the Bible, then they should follow that precedent.

I have not suggested that we should be under both covenants, but rather I have been speaking about how we should live under the New Covenant. If you cite many verses, then do you want me to interact with what you said by discussing how those verses should be interpreted or would you prefer if I did not respond to them?

In 1 Timothy 1:8, Paul said that the law is good if one uses it properly, so things that were only said against its improper uses should not be mistaken as being against its proper uses. God's law is His instructions for how to equip us to do every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and in Titus 3:1-8, Paul was exhorting them to do good works, so verse 9 should not be interpreted as undermining what Paul just finished saying.

Do you believe we must obey the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the Passover, and the dietary laws?

LoveGodsWord · Aug 8, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
A Moral Law is any law that a person knows to do good by instinct or by nature. For even the Gentiles who did not have the Law were able to do things contained in the Law (See: Romans 2:14). Surely 9 out of the 10 commandments are still applicable (Sabbath excluded). But there are even more moral laws besides the 9 out of the 10. inappropriate behavior with animals, and incest laws are moral laws in refraining to do evil and to alternatively do good by being either remaining celibate or to enter into monogamous marriage with a faithful believer of the opposite sex.

Things like the Saturday Sabbath was not a command that has repeated in the New Testament (or New Covenant) after the New Covenant went into effect officially with Christ's death. We do not see Christ's followers saying, “Thou shalt keep the Sabbath” or anything along those lines. Sure, Paul would go to the temple on the Sabbath to evangelize Jews, but that was a ministry effort and it was not Paul commanding us to keep the Sabbath. Paul says that some regard all days alike (See: Romans 14:5-6). Paul says we are not to let others judge us in regards to the Sabbaths and holy days, etc. (See: Colossians 2:16-17); Why? Because Christ nailed these ordinances to the cross (See: Colossians 2:14).

I highly doubt anyone even keeps the Israelite Sabbath today, anyways. One is supposed to celebrate the Saturday Sabbath on Friday at sundown, and then it would continue the next day (Saturday). Plus, there are other Sabbaths. Do you keep these other Sabbaths? Do you keep the other holy days?

Also, both sets of Laws between the Old Covenant and New Covenant conflict with each other. It is physically impossible to obey both of them entirely. Of course your Sabbatarian is going to pick and choose and say that the priesthood laws have ended and that is what Scripture is referring to. But clearly we see in Colossians 2:14-17 that the Sabbaths, and holy days, and dietary laws have ended. We see that the ceremonial laws like circumcision has clearly ended in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. Of course your Sabbatarians will not see this because they like to do these kinds of rituals (Despite our liberty in Christ).

Paul says if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This is in context to the Old Law because Paul talks about if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Circumcision is obviously a command of the Old Covenant (that was given to Abraham and Moses).

The weightier matters of the Law mentioned in Matthew 23:23 is in context to love, faith, justice, and mercy (Also see: Luke 11:42). In fact, Jesus referred to the ceremonial law of the Old Covenant (before the New Covenant went into effect with His death) when he spoke about how the Pharisees tithed mint, anise, and cummin. Jesus referred to how they should have focused more on loving, being merciful, having faith, and dealing fairly in matters of justice. In fact, 2 Corinthians 9:7 shows that there is no more tithing anymore. We are to give what God has purposed in our heart to give and not out of compulsion; For God loves a cheerful giver.

Anyways, in conclusion: Obedience is a part of everlasting life (See: Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Hebrews 5:9). We have to obey God's commands to enter into life, but this would be the commands that come from Jesus and His followers and not the commands given to us by Moses.

For the Law came by Moses, and grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17).

Where does it say in the scripture the Sabbath is excluded from God's 10 commandments or how many commandments are there in God's 10 commandments 9; 10 or 613? (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4). I disagree with your claims here in this post as everyone of God's 10 commandments are indeed repeated in the new testament scriptures even Gods 4th commandment as kept by Jesus and the Apostles even after the death of JESUS. It was JESUS who teaches us how to keep the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12 and Mark 2:27-28 and Paul who says the Sabbath remains for the people of God in Hebrews 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

You do know that there are many types of sabbaths in the old testament right? Which one is Colossians 2:16 talking about? Is it...

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

Most of the above cermonial sabbaths are prophetic "shadow laws" pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant fulfilled in Christ. They could also annual sabbath connected to the feast days that could fall on any day of the week. Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is not a shadow law as it was made as part of the finished work of creation for all mankind before sin and the need of laws.

No where in Colossians is it talking about God's 4th commandment as none of God's 10 commandments are "shadow laws" they are God's eternal law spoken and written with the finger of God on tables of stone that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant scriptures *Romans 3:20; Roman 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures (including God's 4th commandment) we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Can you show me a single new testament scripture that says that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? - There is none.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 8, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Where does it say in the scripture the Sabbath is excluded from God's 10 commandments or how many commandments are there in God's 10 commandments 9; 10 or 613? (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4). I disagree with your claims here in this post as everyone of God's 10 commandments are indeed repeated in the new testament scriptures even Gods 4th commandment as kept by Jesus and the Apostles even after the death of JESUS. It was JESUS who teaches us how to keep the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12 and Mark 2:27-28 and Paul who says the Sabbath remains for the people of God in Hebrews 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

You do know that there are many types of sabbaths in the old testament right? Which one is Colossians 2:16 talking about? Is it...

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

Most of the above cermonial sabbaths are prophetic "shadow laws" pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant fulfilled in Christ. They could also annual sabbath connected to the feast days that could fall on any day of the week. Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is not a shadow law as it was made as part of the finished work of creation for all mankind before sin and the need of laws.

No where in Colossians is it talking about God's 4th commandment as none of God's 10 commandments are "shadow laws" they are God's eternal law spoken and written with the finger of God on tables of stone that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant scriptures *Romans 3:20; Roman 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures (including God's 4th commandment) we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Can you show me a single new testament scripture that says that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? - There is none.

Nope. I am not going to let you judge me according to Sabbath days because my Bible tells me not to let anyone judge me according to Sabbath days.

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days” (Colossians 2:16).

In other words, this verse lets me know that the Saturday Sabbath is not binding upon me as a New Covenant believer. Now, you can twist this verse all you like to try and say something else, but I just simply read it, and believe it. The words “sabbath days” mentioned in Colossians 2:16 would include the Saturday Sabbath because it is a Sabbath day.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 8, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Nope. I am not going to let you judge me according to Sabbath days because my Bible tells me not to let anyone judge me according to Sabbath days.

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days” (Colossians 2:16).

In other words, this verse lets me know that the Saturday Sabbath is not binding upon me as a New Covenant believer. Now, you can twist this verse all you like to try and say something else, but I just simply read it, and believe it. The words “sabbath days” mentioned in Colossians 2:16 would include the Saturday Sabbath because it is a Sabbath day.

Not really. I do not judge you either. According to the scriptures it is God's Word that is our judge come judgement day as shown in John 12:47-48. Did you want to answer my question to you in regards to Colossians 2:16? I asked you where does it say what your claiming in Colossians 2:16 that this is a reference to God's 4th commandment?

Which sabbath is being discussed in Colossians 2:16? Is it...

(1) The sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8

(2) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32

(3) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?

(4) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36

(5) Feast of first fruits (first and last day - not God's 4th commandment) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39

(6) The sabbaths (sabbaton plural - also not God's 4th commandment)) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week

(7) The sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle - not God's 4th commandment) *LEVITICUS 25:2

(8) The sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

Note: all of the above "shadow sabbath" are ceremonial annual sabbaths from the Mosiac book of the law and are prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and Gods plan of salvation in the new covenant. These annual ceremonial sabbaths can fall on any day of the week unlike God's 4th commandment given at creation for all mankind as part of God's finished work before sin and law.

(9) Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

Scripture please? Do you know what old testament scriptures Paul is quoting from in Colossians 2:16? If so which one?

The context of Colossians 2:16 is to the shadow laws of cicrumcision and ceremonial laws in Colossians 2:11-14 and the Mosaic annual cermonial "shadow" sabbaths in the feast days and new moons that can fall on any day of the week (Colossians 2:16-17) not God's 10 commandments or God's 4th commandments which is every seventh day of the week given by God at creation the gives us the knowledge of what sin is when knowingly broken.

I also asked you to show me where it says in Gods' Word that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? I can understand why you do not want to answer this because there is no scripture and if there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandments which is one of the 10 commandments is abolished. Where do you think this man made tradition that goes against scripture comes from?

Hope this helps

Bible Highlighter · Aug 9, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really. I do not judge you either. According to the scriptures it is God's Word that is our judge come judgement day as shown in John 12:47-48. Did you want to answer my question to you in regards to Colossians 2:16? I asked you where does it say what your claiming in Colossians 2:16 that this is a reference to God's 4th commandment?

Which sabbath is being discussed in Colossians 2:16? Is it...

(1) The sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8

(2) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32

(3) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?

(4) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36

(5) Feast of first fruits (first and last day - not God's 4th commandment) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39

(6) The sabbaths (sabbaton plural - also not God's 4th commandment)) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week

(7) The sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle - not God's 4th commandment) *LEVITICUS 25:2

(8) The sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

Note: all of the above "shadow sabbath" are ceremonial annual sabbaths from the Mosiac book of the law and are prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and Gods plan of salvation in the new covenant. These annual ceremonial sabbaths can fall on any day of the week unlike God's 4th commandment given at creation for all mankind as part of God's finished work before sin and law.

(9) Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

Scripture please? Do you know what old testament scriptures Paul is quoting from in Colossians 2:16? If so which one?

The context of Colossians 2:16 is to the shadow laws of cicrumcision and ceremonial laws in Colossians 2:11-14 and the Mosaic annual cermonial "shadow" sabbaths in the feast days and new moons that can fall on any day of the week (Colossians 2:16-17) not God's 10 commandments or God's 4th commandments which is every seventh day of the week given by God at creation the gives us the knowledge of what sin is when knowingly broken.

I also asked you to show me where it says in Gods' Word that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? I can understand why you do not want to answer this because there is no scripture and if there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandments which is one of the 10 commandments is abolished. Where do you think this man made tradition that goes against scripture comes from?

Hope this helps

No. Whenever we align with the morals of God's Word we are automatically judging others (Whether it be silently or openly). For Jesus even told us to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24). If you hold to, and proclaim the morals of God's Word, you are aligning with what you believe those morals to say and you are striving to correct others by preaching the Word. So yes, you are judging by preaching the Word (based upon your incorrect interpretation of precisely of what those moral principles include), unless you really believe that keeping the Saturday Sabbath is merely optional and not a necessity in regards to salvation. Meaning, do you think that those believers who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath and yet they keep all the other commands in the New Testament by God are going to be cast into the lake of fire? If you do, you then would believe (based on your wrong interpretation of Scripture) that you are on God's side in judging me (or passing along God's judgments). Now, if we lived in the times of the Old Testament or Old Covenant, I would agree with you, but Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Colossians 2:16 plainly tells me that I am not to let anyone (Which would include you incorrectly preaching His Word in this instance) to judge me according to sabbath days. Last I checked, sabbath days included the Saturday Sabbath. You re-interpret Colossians 2:16 to your own liking so as to say that the Saturday Sabbath is excluded and not among the sabbath days in the reference of this verse. If such a thing was as you say, then Paul would have clearly clarified that point, and he would have said,

“[Despite, the weekly sabbath that we must all keep to continue in life;] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the [other] sabbath days:”
(Colossians 2:16 Sabbatarian Influenced Translation).

Note: The words in brown within brackets do not exist in any real Bible. They are simply what you wish the Bible to say silently when it simply does not say that.

The real Colossians 2:16 says:

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” (Colossians 2:16).

I see nothing in this verse making an exception that the “sabbath days” excludes the Jewish weekly or Saturday Sabbath. It simply says, “sabbath days” and that would naturally include the Saturday Sabbath because the Saturday Sabbath is a sabbath day or it would be among the “sabbath days.”

In addition, no new commands for the Saturday Sabbath have been repeated after Christ's death for us believers, either. So this means that the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding upon New Covenant believers because we are not to let anyone judge us according to sabbath days. For Christ nailed to the cross these ordinances (See: Colossians 2:14). The context of Colossians 2:16 is Colossians 2:14.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 9, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
No. Whenever we align with the morals of God's Word we are automatically judging others (Whether it be silently or openly). For Jesus even told us to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24). If you hold to, and proclaim the morals of God's Word, you are aligning with what you believe those morals to say and you are striving to correct others by preaching the Word. So yes, you are judging by preaching the Word (based upon your incorrect interpretation of precisely of what those moral principles include), unless you really believe that keeping the Saturday Sabbath is merely optional and not a necessity in regards to salvation. Meaning, do you think that those believers who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath and yet they keep all the other commands in the New Testament by God are going to be cast into the lake of fire? If you do, you then would believe (based on your wrong interpretation of Scripture) that you are on God's side in judging me (or passing along God's judgments). Now, if we lived in the times of the Old Testament or Old Covenant, I would agree with you, but Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Colossians 2:16 plainly tells me that I am not to let anyone (Which would include you incorrectly preaching His Word in this instance) to judge me according to sabbath days. Last I checked, sabbath days included the Saturday Sabbath. You re-interpret Colossians 2:16 to your own liking so as to say that the Saturday Sabbath is excluded and not among the sabbath days in the reference of this verse. If such a thing was as you say, then Paul would have clearly clarified that point, and he would have said,

“[Despite, the weekly sabbath that we must all keep to continue in life;] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the [other] sabbath days:”
(Colossians 2:16 Sabbatarian Influenced Translation).

Note: The words in brown within brackets do not exist in any real Bible. They are simply what you wish the Bible to say silently when it simply does not say that.

The real Colossians 2:16 says:

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” (Colossians 2:16).

I see nothing in this verse making an exception that the “sabbath days” excludes the Jewish weekly or Saturday Sabbath. It simply says, “sabbath days” and that would naturally include the Saturday Sabbath because the Saturday Sabbath is a sabbath day or it would be among the “sabbath days.”

In addition, no new commands for the Saturday Sabbath have been repeated after Christ's death for us believers, either. So this means that the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding upon New Covenant believers because we are not to let anyone judge us according to sabbath days. For Christ nailed to the cross these ordinances (See: Colossians 2:14). The context of Colossians 2:16 is Colossians 2:14.

I respectfully disagree with all that is posted here dear friend but let me explain why by examining the contexts of your claims here in regards to Colossians 2 by looking in detail at the within scripture contexts, the within chapter context and the Greek words used and their meaning. I have never seen the translation you have provided above and never used it or do I care to so it is not relavant to me.

Lets also look at what Paul is quoting from in the Old testament scripture I will be adding the detail in the a number of posts for all to see. If you disagree your welcome to try and prove why you disagree in a friendly discussion.

Ok let's first start by addressing a number of questions asked of you that you ignored in relation to Colossions 2 already. I asked you what sabbaths are being discussed in Colossians 2:16 and I listed many sabbaths in the old covenant that were not God's 4th commandment but ceremonial "shadow" sabbaths of the old covenant fulfilled in Christ and God's plan of salvaiton in the new covenant that can fall on any day of the week.

These included...

Which sabbath is being discussed in Colossians 2:16? Is it...

(1) The sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8

(2) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32

(3) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?

(4) The sabbath (not God's 4th commandment) on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36

(5) Feast of first fruits (first and last day - not God's 4th commandment) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39

(6) The sabbaths (sabbaton plural - also not God's 4th commandment)) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week

(7) The sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle - not God's 4th commandment) *LEVITICUS 25:2

(8) The sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

Note: all of the above "shadow sabbath" are ceremonial annual sabbaths from the Mosiac book of the law and are prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and Gods plan of salvation in the new covenant. These annual ceremonial sabbaths can fall on any day of the week unlike God's 4th commandment given at creation for all mankind as part of God's finished work before sin and law.

(9) Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

Scripture please? Do you know what old testament scriptures Paul is quoting from in Colossians 2:16? If so which one?

Now the above question and understanding of all the sabbaths is important to understanding what Colossians 2 is taking about as what you will see in scripture context of Colossians 2 is that Paul is quoting from the old testament scriptures and there are many ceremonial sabbaths in the old covenant that were not a part of God's 10 commandments.

We will stop here for now... more posts will follow this one so I pray if you do not mind that you may let me complete my posts before you start... Many thanks

LoveGodsWord · Aug 9, 2020

Many people pull up COLOSSIANS 2:16 in an attempt to cherry pick scripture without considering

1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT COLOSSIANS 2:11-17
2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14
3. LINKING THE OLD AND NEW TO COLOSSIANS 2:14 IN ORDINANCES (dogma)
4. GREEK WORD MEANINGS IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 LINKING OLD AND NEW
5. WHAT “SABBATHS” IS COLOSSIANS 2:16 TALKING ABOUT?
6. WHAT OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES IS PAUL QUOTING IN COLOSSAINS 2:16?

In order to argue Sunday (first day of the week) is the new Christian Sabbath instead of God's seventh day sabbath which is God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

In the days of JESUS and the disciples their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures so everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures comes from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. The point being made here is that much of the NEW TESTAMENT has direct links and is directly quoting OLD TESTAMENT scripture which with a prayerful study of God's Word can help us understand the meanings and context of what is being discussed in the NEW TESTAMENT which in many cases are a fulfillment of the OLD SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

I would like to propose a detailed evaluation of COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 (exegesis) using all of the above points listed applied to COLOSSIANS 2 for chapter context and in particular COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 for within scripture context linking the scritures from the OLD TESTAMENT that are being discussed here by Paul in COLOSSIANS 2:16-17.

The reason being, many people try to simply use a single NEW TESTAMENT scripture (COLOSSIANS 2:16) which they pull out of the CHAPTER and the within SCRIPTURE CONTEXT and separate it from all the scriptures provided in God’s Word from which it is quoting to try and make it say things that it is not saying so the following detailed posts and scriptures provided will be seeking to answer the question of the claims many use to disregard God's 4th commandment and answer the question;

IS COLOSSIANS 2 SAYING THAT WE ARE NO LONGER TO KEEP GOD'S SABBATH?

I believe you all are my brothers and sisters and that God's people are in all churches living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. The hour is coming and now is however that God is calling his people wherever they may be OUT FROM FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS OF MEN back to the pure words of GOD alone. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:17; JOHN 4:23-24

So let's begin the detail in the following posts...

LoveGodsWord · Aug 9, 2020

1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:11-17

I will possibly spend some time here examining the CHAPTER CONTEXT because the chapter context will also help to determine the “SUBJECT MATTER” and “TOPIC OD CONVERSATION being discussed and the context the scripture is being applied to.

So what we are seeking to discover here is……WHAT IS THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION AND TOPIC OF COLOSSIANS 2:16-17?

This will help us to understand what COLOSSIANS 2:16 is talking about. Let’s start by looking at COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 which will help us to understand COLOSSIANS 2:16-17.

Let's start...CHAPTER CONTEXT

COLOSSIANS 2:11-17
[11], In whom also you are CIRCUMCISION with the CIRCUMCISION made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12], Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
[13], And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[14], BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[15], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[16], Let no man therefore judge you in FOOD AND DRINK, or in respect of a HOLY DAY [FESTIVAL], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
[17], Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

THE SHADOW LAWS FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THERFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

NOTE: NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORITHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCSION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

..............

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

Let's continue on through the chapter...

COLOSSIANS 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφω exaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase> the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφον cheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL LAWS> that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments which is death) and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

ECCLESIASTES 18:20 20, The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The death penalty is against us. So were all the ceremonial laws from the OLD COVENANT that were required to seek God's forgiveness *LEVITICUS 16. In the NEW COVENANT we are forgiven by FAITH through confession and repentance for our sins *1 JOHN 1:9; MATTHEW 3:2 . No more animal sacrifices required.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

..............

So, what is the answer to the question we asked earlier

Q1. WHAT IS THE CHAPTER CONTEXT AND TOPIC OF CONVERSATION AND TOPIC OF COLOSSIANS 2:16?

ANSWER; As shown through the scriptures above in COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 linked to the OLD and NEW TESATMANT scriptures, the “CONTEXT”, “SUBJECT MATTER” and TOPIC OF CONVERSATION” of COL 2:11-14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the “SHADOW LAWS” from the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION in the NEW COVENANT. The “CONTEXT” and “SUBJECT MATTER” of COLOSSIANS 2:16 is not referring to ABOLISHING any one of God’s 10 Commandments.

To be continued....

LoveGodsWord · Aug 9, 2020

2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14

In the last section we looked at the “WITHIN CHAPTER CONTEXT” of COLOSSIANS 2:16 now in this section we will look at the “WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTECT” and GREEK WORD MEANINGS of COLOSSIANS 2:14 which supports what has already been presented in the “CHAPTER CONTEXT” demonstrated through the scriptures in the previous post.Looking at the within scripture word meaning of and context of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16 continued..

COLOSSIANS 2:14 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφον cheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLIESIASTICAL laws >that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 is in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (i.e. shadow law of circumcision).

So with the GREEK word meanings added for clarification the scripture context of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 reads..V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA mean ing THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the CovenantWhat is being REPLACED in the NEW COVANANT is the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws and ORDINANCES not God's 10 commandments!

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). The chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS and ORDINANCES OF the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

DEUTERONOMY 31 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 29 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW. (See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

………..

Q2 WHAT IS THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14?

ANSWER; The “WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT” and Greek word meaning support the scriptures provided in the “CHAPTER CONTEXT”. COL 2:14 is talking about the CIVIL CEREMONIAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

to be continued...

LoveGodsWord · Aug 9, 2020

3. LINKING THE NEW TO THE OLD – COLOSSIANS 2:14 “ORDINANCES”

COLOSSIANS 2:14 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

HEBREWS 9:1;9-10; 12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15-16 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9-12 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

HEBREWS 10:1-4 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

JOHN 6:55 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18:8 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ and God's LAW written on the heart in those who BELIEVE the WORD of GOD. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

ZECHARIAH 9:9-11 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

Verse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12:23-24 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant... blood

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

Where is all this leading? The NEW COVENANT of course...

JEREMIAH 31:31-34, [31] Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:2-3 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

…………

CONCLUSION; Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the BOOK OF THE LAW OF ORDINANCES and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE. COLOSSIANS 2 is not talking about God’s 10 COMMANDMENTS. NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices and FORGIVENESS OF SIN and DELIVERANCE from the PENALTY of SIN through FAITH in CHRIST and the BLOOD of the NEW COVENANT.

to be continued...

LoveGodsWord · Aug 9, 2020

4. GREEK WORD MEANINGS IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 LINKING OLD AND NEW

We have seen from the previous sections; looking at the “CHAPTER CONTEXT” in COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 that the “SUBJECT MATTER” and the “TOPIC OF CONVERSATION” prior to COLOSSIANS 2:16 are the “SHADOW LAWS” from the “MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT IN “ORDINANCES” (e.g. CIRCUMCISION) that point to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

What is being discussed here is NOT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS for which God’s 4th Commandment SABBATH is a part of. So the next question is;

“WHAT IS THE GREEK WORD MEANING AND APPLICATION USED HERE FOR SABBATH and the WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT AND APPLICAION?”

So in this section I would like to discuss the meaning of the GREEK word for “SABBATH” (SABBATON) which is different to the HEBREW Word meaning which provides a different meaning depending on it’s application and can mean;

1. “the SABBATH (God’s 4th commandment)” or
2. “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” or
3. “A SEVEN DAY WEEK”

Depending on the words applcaion within the scriptures, all the word definitions listed above can be applied in singular form or in plural application.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4521
σάββατον sabbaton Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

This means ALL the ANNUAL FEAST days that were not the SEVENTH DAY but where no work was to be done are also translated as SABBATON in the Greek.

Let’s apply this now to COLOSSIANS 2:16 asking the question which definition should be applied here; what is the meaning that COLOSSIANS 2:16 is applying?

OK lets now look at the "within scripture context" of COLOSSIANS 2:16 linking the ORIGIN of the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT scriptures that PAUL is referring to.

COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY <plural>:

PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures here…..

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, THE CALLING OF ASSEMBLIES (annual festivals), I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

wait for it back to the NEW...

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO, ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

HEBREWS 10:1-9
[1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
[6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
[7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
[9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

..............

CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not in reference to God's 10 Commandments. They are in reference to the ceremonial laws in ORDINANCES connected to feast days and the annual sabbaths that are directly connected to feasts that can fall on any day of the week and not God's "SEVENTH DAY" weekly Sabbath that is outside of the JEWISH annual festivals that is a part of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20

The GREEK word meaing and application of SABBATHS; SABBATH DAYS from COLOSSIANS 2:16 as shown in the CHAPTER CONTEXT and WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT is to the application of the GREEK word meaning to “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” which is a reference to the HOLY CONVOCATIONS (calling out to public meetings) and the annual sabbaths in festivals that can fall on any day of the week.

to be continued...

LoveGodsWord · Aug 9, 2020

5. SABBATON (SABBATH DAYS) IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 WHAT IS IT POINTING TO?

The CONTEXT of LEVITICUS 23 here are the appointed times of the ANNUAL FESTIVALS. These ANNUAL FESTIVALS are once a year events and includes days of HOLY CONVOCATION. A HOLY CONVOCATION in Hebrew means;

HOLY קדשׁ ; qôdesh From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

CONVOCATION מקרא; miqrâ'; From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

So CONTEXT of LEVITICUS 23 is lising all the days of HOLY CONVOCATION for the ANNUAL FEASTIVALS. That are SACRED PUBLIC MEETINGS for the YEARLY FEAST DAYS.God's 4th Commandments is a part of the ANNUAL FEAST days because many FEASTS were longer then 7 days or the FEASTS could start on any day depending on the YEARLY CYCLE.This is different to the "special annual sabbath" that are connected directly to the feast days that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. So we are not discussing the same thing here.

God's 4th Commandment which is one of God's 10 commandment that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th commandment is not one of the "special" annual sabbaths strictly linked to the feastivals like those listed in LEVITICUS 23

These "special" sabbaths linked directly to certain festivals can fall on any day of the week and are only used in the annual Jewish festivals of

(1) Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
(2) The annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
(3) The annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
(4) The Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
(5) Feast of first fruits that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
(6) The sabbaths of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36
(7) The sabbath of the land *LEVITICUS 25:2
(8) The sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

Note: all of the above "shadow sabbath" are ceremonial annual sabbaths from the Mosiac book of the law and are prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and Gods plan of salvation in the new covenant. These annual ceremonial sabbaths can fall on any day of the week unlike God's 4th commandment given at creation for all mankind as part of God's finished work before sin and law.

Unlike God's 4th commandment SABBATH which is striclty every SEVENTH DAY of the week required outside of the feasts days and are a part of God's 10 Commandments.

to be continued...

The W

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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