Christian Democrats?

Akita Suggagaki said:

That I should why I sort of invented the term actionable proximity unless there is a better term. It must be taken into account. The president can pardon, write execuIve orders and has major powerful influence on many issues that can change daily. While abortion is settled law. Why should abortion outweigh other issues when it way down on the list of doable, actionable issues?

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Because what is legal depends upon the Supreme Court, and if you give Trump long enough, he may appoint justices that will change direction. He's certainly appointing plenty of unqualified judges at lower levels. If the death of any fertilized egg is truly the moral equivalent of the death of any adult, it's hard to see how any issue other than abortion could matter. That's a disaster, because I think Trump is using abortion as a shield behind which he can do whatever he wants. But it's a shield that may work.

Rose2020 said:

Actually,.. I say that once the baby develops a heartbeat then it's murder. I do believe there's a current bill called the heartbeat law or something as well.

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Why? With modern equipment we can detect some kind of primitive heart beat before many mothers even know they are pregnant. I don't see why that would be your line, unless you just want to prohibit abortion.

hedrick said:

he may appoint justices that will change direction. He's certainly appointing

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That is the other thing that reduces the issue even more. He is unpredictable.

Rose2020 said:

Well yeah,.. that's the goal. If you really don't want a baby there are already two solutions for you in place,.. one,.. adopt it out,.. and two,.. keep your legs closed!

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OK. States are using heartbeat laws as lies, to claim that they're not violating Rowe v Wade what actually making abortion impossible. I wouldn't think anyone in
CF would want to take that approach.

Rose2020 said:

Please explain what you mean.

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I think it's obvious. States are coming up with excuses to prohibit abortion, but since Rowe v Wade is still legal, they're using excuses: it's for the mother's health or something else. These excuses are pretexts, i.e. lies. Heartbeat bills are just another example. They're attempts to ban as many abortions as possible without technically violating Rowe v Wade.

I don't see why people in this discussion would use pretexts. If you oppose abortion, oppose abortion. What moral difference can it make whether there's a heart beat?

Rose2020 said:

Well I do oppose all abortion, but killing a baby that has a heartbeat is what makes it murder. I'm curious how being against it isn't Christian like though. :/

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I hope I never said that being against abortion isn't Christian. I don't think there's anything in Scripture that prohibits abortion, but people can certainly think there is without becoming not Christian.

Rose2020 said:

Well then I apologize as I might have misunderstood you,.. but you said that you hoped that nobody on CF would support heartbeat laws or something.

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I believe the usual motivation for heartbeat laws, as used by states, is dishonest. That doesn't mean that you personally are being dishonest.

Rose2020 said:

Please don't take this the wrong way,.. I really don't want to start a fight,.. but how is there such things as Christian Democrats and or Liberals? (This might sound stupid but not sure if that's the same thing. XD)

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For every one right-leaning ideal you mention that aligns with Christ, I'll mention two left-leaning ideals that align with Christ. Also, I will go first.

This is a game you should easily win, right?

1. The parable of the workers in the field. Those who worked all day received a fair wage, but those who worked for only an hour made the same amount. This is a leftist ideal. I understand that Jesus does not necessarily condone the actions described in his parables, but he did liken this behavior to the kingdom of God. So I think Jesus is left of political center on this particular issue.

2. He told the rich young ruler to sell all that he has and give his money to the poor. This was not a parable, riddle, or metaphor. It was a simple and direct suggestion/command. I think we can agree that this would also be left of political center.

Rose2020 said:

Okay,.. that part makes sense,.. but how fair is it to the child who doesn't get a choice of whether or not they want to live or die?

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Because they aren’t a “child” at the time we are talking about. A foetus is not a child, any more than a fertilised egg is a child.

Rose2020 said:

The child inside the woman was created by God in His image and has a purpose just like everybody else in the world.

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That’s your claim. Not everyone agrees with you.

Speedwell said:

You could have fooled me. Just from what Christians on CF tell me, the only important tenet of the Christian faith is that the Book of Genesis is literal history.

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Obvious dig at me is obvious.

Genesis as literal history is of vital importance to how sin came into the world and why a perfect man was the only possible saviour. This then leads into how Jesus was this man and how only a man who was fully God and fully man could take on the sins of the world. Many doctrines in the Bible have their root way back in Genesis.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Touching on creation again, it's not just Genesis it's all through the entire Bible.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rose2020 said:

Fair enough,.. but they should,.. but yes sadly you're actually right about that.

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If the religious right truly cares about the unborn, they would do what they can to reach the hearts and minds of sexually active women. The Republican party would have done well to stop being sexist when sexism was cool. That would have landed them some points. They passed on that. They could offer to support pregnant women and single mothers. Those ladies are still waiting. They could put forth candidates that aren't womanizers. That would also grip their hearts and minds and indirectly lessen the amounts of abortions by drawing sexually active women into the pro-life party.

The reality is that the Republicans literally couldn't care less about the unborn. It's just a hotbutton issue that they've taken the opposite stance on in order to swindle commoners into voting against their own interests.