NY Attorney General seeks to dissolve NRA, citing massive fraud.

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New York Attorney General Moves To Dissolve The NRA After Fraud Investigation

The Attorney General of New York took action today to dissolve the National Rifle Association, following an 18-month investigation that found evidence the powerful gun rights group is "fraught with fraud and abuse."

Attorney General Letitia James claims in a lawsuit filed Thursday that she found financial misconduct in the millions of dollars, and that it contributed to a loss of more than $64 million over a three year period.

The suit alleges that top NRA executives misused charitable funds for personal gain, awarded contracts to friends and family members, and provided contracts to former employees to ensure loyalty.

Here's a problem guns won't solve...

Thoughts?
 
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Belk

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Aryeh Jay

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Here's a problem guns won't solve...

Thoughts?

Nothing you can do, folks, although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.
 
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cow451

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Comrades! National Russia Association is legitimate business. All papers are in order. Liberal evil lawyer trying to take guns from loyal Americans that have Two Amendment rights. Look it up!
 
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ThatRobGuy

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There's certainly some sketchy stuff that's gone on behind the scenes as the organization definitely isn't the same today as it used to be in previous times.

While it's not a bad thing to bust up an org that's misrepresenting their 501(c)(3) status, I do think it's politically motivated and isn't likely to accomplish what they think it will accomplish.


The NRA gave $30 million to the Trump 2016 campaign, and were almost certain to repeat that (and maybe even bump up the amount) for 2020.

So if you get rid of the organization that's giving money to Trump, you cut off a source of funding for him. Sounds logical on paper.

However, that's not likely how it would play out.

It's likely that any NRA donors (who would typically contribute to NRA, then NRA executives would by themselves a steak dinner, a vacation, and then give what's left over to the GOP), would instead just end up donating directly to the Trump campaign with that money...which would actually mean more money for Trump after you cut out the siphoning middle-man in the equation.

Or they give that money to another pro-Trump org that's even better organized than the NRA which would mean, again, more money getting thrown toward Trump.


You'd think that if cutting off as much funding from Trump was really the goal, they'd bask in the fact that most of that money that Trump supporters are spending for what they think is supporting his cause, is actually getting siphoned off and not going to that cause.

For example, PETA would be thrilled if they found out that most of the money people were donating to a "pro-factory farming" organization was actually just going to buy a vacation home and not actually going toward factory farms...and wouldn't want to change a thing.


Now, if the motivation behind this was strictly to deal a blow to gun rights advocacy, shutting down the NRA is definitely going to backfire. Without the NRA in the way, the #1 national gun rights advocacy non-profit will be the 2nd Amendment Foundation.

...for those unfamiliar with that organization, they're much smarter, better organized, have more competent lawyers, and are actually responsible for the court rulings that have been "big wins" for gun rights advocates (DC v. Heller...striking down of concealed weapons bans in various states, etc...) -- even though the NRA tries to steal credit for those, it was actually 2AF that got those wins in court.

With the NRA no longer available to donate to, it's almost certain that a substantial portion of that $$$ will end up in the hands of the 2nd Amendment Foundation, and if they can land rulings like DC v. Heller, getting waiting periods shot down in California, getting rid of Illinois' ccw ban, etc... and do it on the comparatively shoestring budget compared to the NRA...Imagine what they'll be able to do with the newly found tens of millions of dollars.

2AF pulled all of that off on 4 million dollars a year, NRA has half a billion...and to my knowledge, pretty much serves the purpose of selling branded tote bags, bumper stickers, making Wayne rich, and keeping Ted Nugent relevant.


When you look at the NRA leadership structure, you find a Huckster, some b-list actors, an obnoxious rocker from the 70's and 80's, etc... You look at 2AF, you find high end attorneys, people with PhD's who've published numerous books, etc...


If you want all of that gun advocacy money to fall into the hands of an organization that's far more competent and capable, by all means, get rid of the NRA.

If you're looking to hamstring the movement to get rid of all meaningful gun legislation, you want "unrestricted gun rights advocacy money" going to Wayne LaPierre's "fancy dinner and suit fund", not going to Alan Gottlieb and Alan Gura to travel the country getting gun laws struck down with relative ease.
 
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cow451

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At least they didn't bring up the USFL.
This is what the USFL was worth after Trump ran it into the ground.
upload_2020-8-6_21-54-29.jpeg
 
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cow451

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There's certainly some sketchy stuff that's gone on behind the scenes as the organization definitely isn't the same today as it used to be in previous times.

While it's not a bad thing to bust up an org that's misrepresenting their 501(c)(3) status, I do think it's politically motivated and isn't likely to accomplish what they think it will accomplish.


The NRA gave $30 million to the Trump 2016 campaign, and were almost certain to repeat that (and maybe even bump up the amount) for 2020.

So if you get rid of the organization that's giving money to Trump, you cut off a source of funding for him. Sounds logical on paper.

However, that's not likely how it would play out.

It's likely that any NRA donors (who would typically contribute to NRA, then NRA executives would by themselves a steak dinner, a vacation, and then give what's left over to the GOP), would instead just end up donating directly to the Trump campaign with that money...which would actually mean more money for Trump after you cut out the siphoning middle-man in the equation.

Or they give that money to another pro-Trump org that's even better organized than the NRA which would mean, again, more money getting thrown toward Trump.


You'd think that if cutting off as much funding from Trump was really the goal, they'd bask in the fact that most of that money that Trump supporters are spending for what they think is supporting his cause, is actually getting siphoned off and not going to that cause.

For example, PETA would be thrilled if they found out that most of the money people were donating to a "pro-factory farming" organization was actually just going to buy a vacation home and not actually going toward factory farms...and wouldn't want to change a thing.


Now, if the motivation behind this was strictly to deal a blow to gun rights advocacy, shutting down the NRA is definitely going to backfire. Without the NRA in the way, the #1 national gun rights advocacy non-profit will be the 2nd Amendment Foundation.

...for those unfamiliar with that organization, they're much smarter, better organized, have more competent lawyers, and are actually responsible for the court rulings that have been "big wins" for gun rights advocates (DC v. Heller...striking down of concealed weapons bans in various states, etc...) -- even though the NRA tries to steal credit for those, it was actually 2AF that got those wins in court.

With the NRA no longer available to donate to, it's almost certain that a substantial portion of that $$$ will end up in the hands of the 2nd Amendment Foundation, and if they can land rulings like DC v. Heller, getting waiting periods shot down in California, getting rid of Illinois' ccw ban, etc... and do it on the comparatively shoestring budget compared to the NRA...Imagine what they'll be able to do with the newly found tens of millions of dollars.

2AF pulled all of that off on 4 million dollars a year, NRA has half a billion...and to my knowledge, pretty much serves the purpose of selling branded tote bags, bumper stickers, making Wayne rich, and keeping Ted Nugent relevant.


When you look at the NRA leadership structure, you find a Huckster, some b-list actors, an obnoxious rocker from the 70's and 80's, etc... You look at 2AF, you find high end attorneys, people with PhD's who've published numerous books, etc...


If you want all of that gun advocacy money to fall into the hands of an organization that's far more competent and capable, by all means, get rid of the NRA.

If you're looking to hamstring the movement to get rid of all meaningful gun legislation, you want "unrestricted gun rights advocacy money" going to Wayne LaPierre's "fancy dinner and suit fund", not going to Alan Gottlieb and Alan Gura to travel the country getting gun laws struck down with relative ease.
Dear NRA member:

That sharp twisting pain in your back is the sound of a sizable Phillips head being inserted.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Dear NRA member:

That sharp twisting pain in your back is the sound of a sizable Phillips head being inserted.

I have no sympathy for people who opted to give their hard earned money away for a tote bag and a bumper sticker lol.

My point was just that, in terms of people who want gun control restrictions, their best scenario is an organization like the NRA scooping up all of that money, and wasting it on things like giving Wayne bonuses lol...because at least that doesn't help the cause they oppose.

If NRA goes away, and even 1/4 of their donor base redirects their contributions toward the 2nd Amendment Foundation, Bump stocks and Suppressors will be back on the shelves for easy purchase within 6 months.

The NRA (with half a billion per year) haven't accomplished a whole lot with Ted Nugent, Tom Selleck, and Karl Malone on their leadership team... If even 1/4th of that amount of money goes to guys like Alan Gottlieb and Alan Gura from 2AF, ...it'll be a different story.

The opposition wasting money on incompetence is a good thing.

Even though I'm pro-gun in a lot of ways, I'm still in favor of reasonable gun restrictions. If you displace the NRA and 2AF fills that void (and get their funding), it'll be a different story.

I like the ideas of universal background checks, mandatory training and mental health screening, etc... that's a fight that could be won as long as the incompetent NRA is at the helm for the "unrestricted gun rights" cause. If 2AF takes their spot, that may not be the case.

Alan Gura not only won the DC v Heller case (which was one of the landmark gun rulings of our era), but also won the Chicago v. MacDonald case, as well as getting waiting periods for handgun purchases shot down in jurisdictions in Cali (a left leaning state). If they can pull that off with a fraction of the funding that NRA currently has...what happens when they're much better funded.
 
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This is still politically motivated...

There are plenty of worse offenders working as charities.
Planned Parenthood tops the list with actual codified illegal activities they got caught on videotape doing.
Others are fundraising for children and clean water in various places. (Those ones are notorious for fractions of pennies on the dollar)

Then there's those who fundraise for reputable charities that again only give the charity less than one percent of the money they raise to the charity in question.

And this AG spent 18 months on this? And this is all he came up with? I'd think that he needs to be investigated for incompetence.
 
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As far as I can remember, all these alleged illigal activities were dismissed in court.
Okay...but we all saw the video.

They may have had a "fix" with the judge but it was still blatantly obvious that they were selling fetus parts.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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In the 1990s the NRA called Federal Law Enforcement officers…

“Armed terrorists dressed in Ninja black ... jack-booted thugs armed to the teeth who break down doors, open fire with automatic weapons and kill law-abiding citizens.”

The base loved it because it was true (Except the RINO George H. W. Bush).

Almost 30 years later the base loves both the NRA and Federal Law Enforcement officers. Nothing has changes except they are wearing military uniforms instead of ninja black. I guess it all depends on who the targets are.
 
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This is still politically motivated...

There are plenty of worse offenders working as charities.
Planned Parenthood tops the list with actual codified illegal activities they got caught on videotape doing.
Others are fundraising for children and clean water in various places. (Those ones are notorious for fractions of pennies on the dollar)

Then there's those who fundraise for reputable charities that again only give the charity less than one percent of the money they raise to the charity in question.

And this AG spent 18 months on this? And this is all he came up with? I'd think that he needs to be investigated for incompetence.

Even if you remove politically divisive organizations from the mix, there are still worse offenders.

Gun rights and Abortion rights are always going to be polarizing issues...so the direct targeting of organizations like those, when there are worse offenders among the ranks of non-divisive topic charities, is always going to give the perception of a "political hit".

The 5 Worst Charities In The United States

Granting wishes to terminally sick kids, fighting breast cancer, and helping firefighters aren't controversial at all, and I would imagine, "In name", would have the broad support of most people on both sides...there are worse actors in those realms that put NRA and Planned Parenthood to shame in terms of swindling and misappropriation of funds, so they don't get targeted, and even if they did, nobody would jump to the conclusion that it's a politically motivated hit-job.

Any time you have a republican prosecutor targeting PP, or a democratic prosecutor targeting NRA...it's only fair to consider that it's politically motivated, especially if those same prosecutors oversee jurisdictions that are home to some of these other questionable charities, and have allowed them to operate with impunity for years.
 
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