Hell is a 404

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
iu


GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Gee FL, I guess you discovered that there must be more than ONE INFALLIBLE Jewish Encyclopedia then, huh? ;) Is it so hard to believe it disagrees with 'another's' overused cut/paste reference source'?

I personally have to question anyone claiming 'the truth' based upon what the Encyclopedia Jews supposedly believed in 1,900 years ago. What they believed, 'the truth was', proves little. They believed a theology which came to being after God had quit speaking to the Jews 400 years earlier. And the encyclopedia claims also came from a time frame where the PHARISEES, who are no where to even be found in the OT, also came into religious power to deceive. Deceptions such as our Lord Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the NT.

Thankfully, I know that's not your reason for quoting the Jewish Encyclopedia of 'your choice' FL. ;) I do believe that you'd rather quote the Religious Encyclopedia which tells us what 'the church' believed in, for the first 500 years.

MAT 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Yes, in the "narrow gate" walk we believe in, the WAY is hard for us, but the THEOLOGY is easy enough for those with ears to hear what 'the Spirit' says, concerning the truth of zoe aionios....or, the God 'life of this age'. :clap:
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟992,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
FineLinen said:
D.A. Can you present to us the highlights of the dogma of Gehenna as per the Jewish Encyclopedia?
I have a number of questions in this regard.
1. Why do the fires of hell not touch the Jewish sinners?
2. Why do the Jewish sinners who confess their sins at the gates of hell and return to God get a free pass & and the rest of us normal sinners do not?
I have done that more than once in this thread already, please feel free to read my previous posts, #24, #113. #268. Please explain to me how you questions have any relevance to what I said? Does the answer to either of those 2 questions refute or disprove anything I said?
Both your questions are only partly correct. Among the various views were the two that you mentioned however that being true it has absolutely no impact on what I said. Just as there are a variety of views on the eternal fate of mankind in Christianity there were differing views in Judaism.
Do the three sources I referred to, Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, document that in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus document that there was a belief in hell?
Jesus would have known about that belief and Jesus said and did nothing to disprove that belief.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟992,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hillsage said:
Gee FL, I guess you discovered that there must be more than ONE INFALLIBLE Jewish Encyclopedia then, huh? ;) Is it so hard to believe it disagrees with 'another's' overused cut/paste reference source'?
I personally have to question anyone claiming 'the truth' based upon what the Encyclopedia Jews supposedly believed in 1,900 years ago. What they believed, 'the truth was', proves little. They believed a theology which came to being after God had quit speaking to the Jews 400 years earlier. And the encyclopedia claims also came from a time frame where the PHARISEES, who are no where to even be found in the OT, also came into religious power to deceive. Deceptions such as our Lord Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the NT.
Thankfully, I know that's not your reason for quoting the Jewish Encyclopedia of 'your choice' FL. ;) I do believe that you'd rather quote the Religious Encyclopedia which tells us what 'the church' believed in, for the first 500 years.
If you have something to say about me have the courtesy to say it to my face.
For your information there is no credible encyclopedia which shows what "'the church' believed in, for the first 500 years." Note the word "credible." That would involve verifiable, historical evidence written at or near the times in question by participants or direct observers versus the unsupported opinions of long dead scholars. You got any of that? I am not aware of any.
Had you bothered to actually read my posts 24, 113 and 268, above, you might know what I actually said instead of misrepresenting what I did say.
Read my post directly above to FL the same responses apply to you.
I have said this before Jesus disagreed with and criticized the Jewish leaders of His day about their beliefs and practices quite a few times. But I am not aware of even one time when Jesus contradicted their belief in hell. In fact what Jesus taught was very similar to the Jewish belief.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,396
81
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟528,512.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Gee FL, I guess you discovered that there must be more than ONE INFALLIBLE Jewish Encyclopedia then, huh? ;) Is it so hard to believe it disagrees with 'another's' overused cut/paste reference source'?

I personally have to question anyone claiming 'the truth' based upon what the Encyclopedia Jews supposedly believed in 1,900 years ago. What they believed, 'the truth was', proves little. They believed a theology which came to being after God had quit speaking to the Jews 400 years earlier. And the encyclopedia claims also came from a time frame where the PHARISEES, who are no where to even be found in the OT, also came into religious power to deceive. Deceptions such as our Lord Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the NT.

Thankfully, I know that's not your reason for quoting the Jewish Encyclopedia of 'your choice' FL. ;) I do believe that you'd rather quote the Religious Encyclopedia which tells us what 'the church' believed in, for the first 500 years.

MAT 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Yes, in the "narrow gate" walk we believe in, the WAY is hard for us, but the THEOLOGY is easy enough for those with ears to hear what 'the Spirit' says, concerning the truth of zoe aionios....or, the God 'life of this age'. :clap:

Dear Sage: The powerful word of our Master regarding deaf ears and blind eyes is the only answer to the problem in many who it would seem enjoy their deplorable condition. The times scales have fallen off my blind eyes is an awakening beyond words to express. I try, but alas there are those avenues that are in the outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown of Him who is the Archegos & Prodromos, the Prince-Leader, who has pioneered a new dimension of Life.

I have learned a hard lesson in the past couple of months when you introduced us to a remarkable gem in our Father's House. My little bitty faith has been overwhelmed in what is transpiring on a daily basis. Well, by brother, our God is still the God of ephphatha!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married

If you have something to say about me have the courtesy to say it to my face.

If I had something to say to your face, I would. But I came to the opinion years ago that it never did do any good. Your responses eventually taught me to believe that your face would probably be no different than your theological opinions....like flint. So I'll address what you say and hope you can deal with the facial issues on your own, with God.

And as for what you wrote this time;
We went down that very same road on this very same issue years ago. It was after that time that I assumed you had blessed me with being put on 'ignore' these last many years. A place I did happily enjoy and truly hope continues.

So if it bothers you to feel like I am addressing 'you' to FineLinen, I will just ask you to patiently endure it even as I have for the last many 'silent' years from you. Many a time your first post in a thread followed mine over those years, but never once with a 'personally addressed' response to me. :clap:

But, as I said earlier, that has been a blessing I've truly enjoyed. And a continued 'ignore' would still be welcomed by me. But I will try 'a little harder' to better camouflage whose 'words' I'm addressing. :)

 
  • Winner
Reactions: FineLinen
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I have learned a hard lesson in the past couple of months when you introduced us to a remarkable gem in our Father's House. My little bitty faith has been overwhelmed in what is transpiring on a daily basis. Well, by brother, our God is still the God of ephphatha!
Hmmm, like you FL, my years are 'mounting up'. But unlike my years, my memory is 'falling down'. So you may have to hum a few bars just to remind me, just what "remarkable gem" it is, that I snuck out of Papa's house. :idea:

I just wish my physical ears were 'opened' well enough to hear as well as my spiritual ears seem to have blessed you with brother. :)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: FineLinen
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,396
81
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟528,512.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Hmmm, like you FL, my years are 'mounting up'. But unlike my years, my memory is 'falling down'. So you may have to hum a few bars just to remind me, just what "remarkable gem" it is, that I snuck out of Papa's house. :idea:

I just wish my physical ears were 'opened' well enough to hear as well as my spiritual ears seem to have blessed you with brother. :)

Dear Sage: my entire being is discombobulated. My mind is plum gone, what is left in lower regions below my flowing locks of white are in the last stages of change & decay. The only thing that keeps me hobbling along=

But God
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟992,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hillsage said:
If I had something to say to your face, I would. But I came to the opinion years ago that it never did do any good. Your responses eventually taught me to believe that your face would probably be no different than your theological opinions....like flint. So I'll address what you say and hope you can deal with the facial issues on your own, with God.
Since I am the only person who has quoted the Jewish Encyclopedia, in this thread, you could only have been talking about me, behind my back as it were, when you said this
"Gee FL, I guess you discovered that there must be more than ONE INFALLIBLE Jewish Encyclopedia then, huh? Is it so hard to believe it disagrees with 'another's' overused cut/paste reference source'?"
Care to deny it, to my face?
Hillside said:
And as for what you wrote this time; We went down that very same road on this very same issue years ago. It was after that time that I assumed you had blessed me with being put on 'ignore' these last many years. A place I did happily enjoy and truly hope continues.
And what I wrote this time and every other time has never been rebutted or disproved. Non-Trins and the "Hell, no" crowd have no compunction about accusing Christians of following the pagan Greek belief in hell, with no evidence. But adamantly reject the idea that the belief in hell existed is Israel before and during the time of Jesus,


 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟992,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
These squabbling posts are going to get this thread shut down. Please go elsewhere with your personal disputes if you can.
Glad to, I am not the one attacking other people. I try to only address the issues.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The entire dogma of unending terror is based in darkness! Our Father indeed punishes, but punishment is NOT an end in itself but leads to change & transformation.
In the true and eloquent words of another, "Let me interject a foundational truth here. It is a truth seldom, if ever, heard among the people of God. The preachers and evangelists studiously avoid it, but it is fundamental to all our understanding of the work of God in this present age. It is a truth given by no less an authority than God's only begotten Son. The following three Scriptures vividly point out God's method of choosing those who are elected to be saved in this age and in the ages to come: First, 'No man can come to Me except the Father which has sent Me draw him' (Jn. 6:44). The second is this: 'All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and him that comes unto Me I will in no wise cast out' (Jn. 6:37). And the third is: 'Father, the hour is come; glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You: as You have given Him power (authority) over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many (all flesh) as You have given Him' (Jn. 17:1-2). Christians blindly strive under the mistaken idea that, if they will only meet certain conditions, God will reply by bringing every man into the fold of Christ in this present age. My friend, this is a very great error. It is about as far from the truth as anything could possibly be. God does not intend to bring all men into the fold now. If that were His intention, He could do it with but one word of His omnipotence. When God's eternal voice speaks, saying, 'Let there be light,' then light immediately floods the universe as it did in the beginning. There is no need for a candle nor the light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. That light could not be matched by ten thousand suns, for the light that shone out of darkness in the beginning is the same light that lightens every man that comes into the world. It is the light that shines into the benighted souls, bringing the life of the ages to men who are sleeping in death. 'Lazarus, come forth!' called the Lord, and a dead man sprang from his tomb to reply. 'Saul! Saul!' Jesus called to a disconsolate and determined persecutor, and he quickly replied, 'Lord, what wilt You have me to do?' And so will it be when He calls you, your child, your husband, or your wife with His still small voice, speaking to the inner ear. Whether it be John, George, Henry, Joan, Phyllis, or Louise, all will fall at His feet in penitence and brokenness the moment He speaks, crying, 'Here am I, Lord! What wilt You have me to do?'

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1
 
Upvote 0

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,171
Florida
Visit site
✟766,603.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In the true and eloquent words of another, "Let me interject a foundational truth here. It is a truth seldom, if ever, heard among the people of God. The preachers and evangelists studiously avoid it, but it is fundamental to all our understanding of the work of God in this present age. It is a truth given by no less an authority than God's only begotten Son. The following three Scriptures vividly point out God's method of choosing those who are elected to be saved in this age and in the ages to come: First, 'No man can come to Me except the Father which has sent Me draw him' (Jn. 6:44). The second is this: 'All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and him that comes unto Me I will in no wise cast out' (Jn. 6:37). And the third is: 'Father, the hour is come; glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You: as You have given Him power (authority) over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many (all flesh) as You have given Him' (Jn. 17:1-2). Christians blindly strive under the mistaken idea that, if they will only meet certain conditions, God will reply by bringing every man into the fold of Christ in this present age. My friend, this is a very great error. It is about as far from the truth as anything could possibly be. God does not intend to bring all men into the fold now. If that were His intention, He could do it with but one word of His omnipotence. When God's eternal voice speaks, saying, 'Let there be light,' then light immediately floods the universe as it did in the beginning. There is no need for a candle nor the light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. That light could not be matched by ten thousand suns, for the light that shone out of darkness in the beginning is the same light that lightens every man that comes into the world. It is the light that shines into the benighted souls, bringing the life of the ages to men who are sleeping in death. 'Lazarus, come forth!' called the Lord, and a dead man sprang from his tomb to reply. 'Saul! Saul!' Jesus called to a disconsolate and determined persecutor, and he quickly replied, 'Lord, what wilt You have me to do?' And so will it be when He calls you, your child, your husband, or your wife with His still small voice, speaking to the inner ear. Whether it be John, George, Henry, Joan, Phyllis, or Louise, all will fall at His feet in penitence and brokenness the moment He speaks, crying, 'Here am I, Lord! What wilt You have me to do?'

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1
God knows not all are compliant with God’s directives. If you have the light of ten thousand suns to illuminate the situation, but lack comprehension, it is like dwelling in darkness.

“I see,” said the blind man.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"'Then He will say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:"'" (Matthew 25:41)

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Galatians 6:7-8)

So, the evil will reap so much more "corruption" than they sow now, as they "grow worse and worse". But there are the real damnationists who help keep them condemned by telling them there is no fire prepared for them, and do not tell them how they are on their way to reaping corruption.

There are vessels "for dishonor" (Romans 9:21), for carrying Satanic things to where they will stay away and be controlled by fire since Satanic people are so stubborn that fire will be used to control them once they totally become corrupt. And their horrible nasty filth within them will be kept by fire away.

It is condemned, all the stuff of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) This is connected with "the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4) This "corruption" is now, and it is conscious, and it will be kept somewhere.

But in God's love we have what is "incorruptible" >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

God's gentle and quiet love is "incorruptible", because God's "gentle and quiet spirit" of His love has His almighty power of His peace. And this almighty peace "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

This power of God's gentle and quiet love protects us from being corrupted by bitterness, arguing, complaining, boredom, loneliness, frustration, unforgiveness, dictatorial drives for pleasure, fear and worry, burn-out and stress . . . all the negative and cruel and degrading and anti-love things of Satan's "spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" causing people to disobey how Jesus cares for us and guides us in His "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
74
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟294,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But there are the real damnationists who help keep them condemned by telling them there is no fire prepared for them, and do not tell them how they are on their way to reaping corruption.

If you are making a sideways reference to universalists as the "real damnationists," I have a surprise for you - we know and teach that ALL of us will be salted by fire. Just as God posted flaming swords to guard the Garden of Eden from any attempts by Adam, Eve and their progeny to reenter, the way back to the Garden/Paradise is through fire. Every man's dross, chaff, wood, hay and stubble must be burned away, and that is part of the transformational work that God does to and for us.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟992,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If you are making a sideways reference to universalists as the "real damnationists," I have a surprise for you - we know and teach that ALL of us will be salted by fire. Just as God posted flaming swords to guard the Garden of Eden from any attempts by Adam, Eve and their progeny to reenter, the way back to the Garden/Paradise is through fire. Every man's dross, chaff, wood, hay and stubble must be burned away, and that is part of the transformational work that God does to and for us.
UR-ites keep quoting Mk 9:49 as if it was some magical get out of jail free mantra for the unrepentant.
Mark 9:49
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
First please show me any verse where an unrighteous person is saved by fire or salt? There is none. "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already."
What does "salted" mean?

Leviticus 2:13
13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.
All offerings will be salted but only that which is clean can be offered to God. The salt does not make anything clean.
Rom 12:1
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.



 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Light of the East

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir
Supporter
Aug 4, 2013
4,989
2,480
75
Fairfax VA
Visit site
✟555,654.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
UR-ites keep quoting Mk 9:49 as if it was some magical get out of jail free card for the unrepentant.
Mark 9:49
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
First please show me any verse where an unrighteous person is saved by fire or salt? There is none. "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already."
What does "salted" mean?

Leviticus 2:13
13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.
All offerings will be salted but only that which is clean can be offered to God. The salt does not make anything clean.

Every time I read your posts I get this vision of you sitting in heaven, peering over its ramparts at the writhing mass of suffering below and with Aquinas clapping your hands in glee and laughing.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟992,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Every time I read your posts I get this vision of you sitting in heaven, peering over its ramparts at the writhing mass of suffering below and with Aquinas clapping your hands in glee and laughing.
I must be doing something right you are the 3rd person trying to insult me today because I quote scripture in-context and show how heterodox religious groups misuse scripture to spread their false doctrine.
 
Upvote 0

Light of the East

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir
Supporter
Aug 4, 2013
4,989
2,480
75
Fairfax VA
Visit site
✟555,654.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I must be doing something right you are the 3rd person trying to insult me today because I quote scripture in-context and show how heterodox religious groups misuse scripture to spread their false doctrine.

It wasn't meant as an insult. It was meant to try to get you to think about the horrors of the idea of eternally tormenting a sentient being. It was meant as a wake up call.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Light of the East

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir
Supporter
Aug 4, 2013
4,989
2,480
75
Fairfax VA
Visit site
✟555,654.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I must be doing something right you are the 3rd person trying to insult me today because I quote scripture in-context and show how heterodox religious groups misuse scripture to spread their false doctrine.

You are proof-texting again. Fire is shown in many places in Scripture as having a cleansing effect.

Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

In the Greek: 13:42 καὶ βαλοῦσιν αὐτοὺς εἰς τὴν κάμινον τοῦ πυρός· ἐκεῖ ἔσται ὁ κλαυθμὸς καὶ ὁ βρυγμὸς τῶν ὀδόντων

κάμινον kaminos a furnace

  1. a furnace
    1. for smelting

    2. for burning earthen ware

    3. for baking bread
Hellists look at this verse and think "See. There's the proof of eternal fire and eternal torment" when it means nothing of the sort. It is a smelting furnace!!!

So you know what it means to smelt metals? It means to cleanse them by fire of all impurities so that they become fully what they should be.

This fire is the fire of God's love.

Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

copyChkboxOff.gif
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Our God is fire. The Fathers speak of His passionate and intense love being that fire. And love always heals, cleanses, forgives, and fortifies. It does not torture, destroy, main, cripple, or any other such thing. The only thing that His love has destroyed is death and sin -- NOT HIS CHILDREN!!!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟992,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Light of the East said:
It wasn't meant as an insult. It was meant to try to get you to think about the horrors of the idea of eternally tormenting a sentient being. It was meant as a wake up call.
I have not said anything which I cannot back up with scripture. As for the UR narrative show me one verse, 2 or more would be better, which clearly and unequivocally states that the unrepentant will be saved even after death.
…..Greek is now, and for 2000+ years has been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios,”“kolasis” etc?
EOB, footnote pg. 180

“Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be
luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be
confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the
damned (“the lake of’ fire”).”
= = = = = = = = = =
The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96

Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = = = = =
KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, the book of Romans, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
Scholars unanimously agree that “aidios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
Thus this shows conclusively that “aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be viewed or D/L at the above link. For any doubts/questions about the EOB version please read the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Jesus used the word “aiōnios” 30 times, He never used “αἰώνιος/aiōnios” to refer to something ordinary or mundane which was not/cannot be eternal e.g. eternal/everlasting life 25 times, fire 2 times, punishment, judgment and habitations 1 time each..
In the following 10 verses, Jesus, intentionally or not, defined/described “αἰώνιος/aiōnios” as “eternal” and “αἰών/aiōn” as “eternity.”

[1]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aiōnios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios life” with “death.” If “live aiōnios” is living only a finite period, that is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiōnios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[2-3]John 10:28-29
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aiōn] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

(29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
ου μη/ou mé, vs. 28, signifies “in nowise,””by no means,””never,” [fn below]. In these two verses Jesus defines both “aiōnios” and “aiōn” as “eternal” with these three phrases, “[not] snatch them out of my hand,” “never perish,” and “no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.” If “aion/aiōnios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “never perish,[not] snatch them out of my hand/the father’s hand.”

[4-5]John 3:15-16
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In these two verses Jesus pairs “aiōnion” with “should not perish,” twice. Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aiōnion life” here means eternal/everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus defines “aiōnios” as “eternal” with the phrases “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aiōnios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless at some point, Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios life” with “shall not see life.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition here aiōnios means eternal.
[8]EOB John 4:14 But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never [ ου μη/ou mé] be thirsty again. Not only this, the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life.”

Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Easter/Greek Orthodox Bible:New Testament. (Jn 4:13–14). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aiōnios with “shall never ου μη/ou mé thirst.” ου μη/ou mé means “in nowise, by no means,” [fn below] Aiōnios cannot mean an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aiōnios here means eternal.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aiōnios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) [αμην αμην/amen amen], I tell you; whoever keeps my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death.”[1]Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna][fn] see death."
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Easter/Greek Orthodox Bible:New Testament.
[fn]● The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
Word Studies in the New Testament, Marvin Vincent.
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.






 
Upvote 0