shilohsfoal
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Revelation 6 does match up with Daniel.
John gave a near perfect description of the abomination of desolation. I could not have described it better.
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The Great Tribulation: 66-70 AD, or
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Revelation 6 does match up with Daniel.
John gave a near perfect description of the abomination of desolation. I could not have described it better.
claninja
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This doesn't address how I just posted "random verses"...
Right, it would be your opinion that events of revelation 6 occurred this year, as there is no other scripture to declare it has happened this year.
I would argue the seals of revelation 6 match more closely with the olivet discourse.
Let's use scripture to interpret scripture, instead of personal interpretation.
Revelation 6:12-17 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slaved and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
1.) Luke 23:27-30 A great number of people followed Him, including women who kept mourning and wailing for Him. But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed!’ At that time ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’c
2.) Luke 21:25-26,32-33 There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
1.) Jesus has quotes hosea 10:8 as being fulfilled with the destruction that was to come upon them. Therefore we should understand the 6th seal, which also quote hosea 10:8 in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem and the people standing in front of Jesus.
2.) When comparing the 6th seal to the olivet discourse, we can see that they are talking about the same events "signs in the sun, moon, and stars; heavens and earth passing away".
Therefore I would argue the 6th seal is related to olivet discourse.
We can also relate the 1st 3 seals to the discourse as well
Right, it would be your opinion that events of revelation 6 occurred this year, as there is no other scripture to declare it has happened this year.
I would argue the seals of revelation 6 match more closely with the olivet discourse.
Let's use scripture to interpret scripture, instead of personal interpretation.
Revelation 6:12-17 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slaved and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
1.) Luke 23:27-30 A great number of people followed Him, including women who kept mourning and wailing for Him. But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed!’ At that time ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’c
2.) Luke 21:25-26,32-33 There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
1.) Jesus has quotes hosea 10:8 as being fulfilled with the destruction that was to come upon them. Therefore we should understand the 6th seal, which also quote hosea 10:8 in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem and the people standing in front of Jesus.
2.) When comparing the 6th seal to the olivet discourse, we can see that they are talking about the same events "signs in the sun, moon, and stars; heavens and earth passing away".
Therefore I would argue the 6th seal is related to olivet discourse.
We can also relate the 1st 3 seals to the discourse as well
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Timtofly
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You just answered your own question about random verses. Revelation 6 is happening this year. John was the only NT author who witnessed it happening. John did change his Gospel slightly from the other 3 Gospels, but the differences may not be noticeable.
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claninja
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You are not explaining how they are random. Please be more specific.
Why would Jesus' use quoting of the fulfillment of Hosea 10:8 in Luke 23 have nothing to do with Revelation 6's use of Hosea 10:8 in the 6th seal.
Why would Jesus' use of Isaiah 13:10 (signs in sun, moon, and stars) in Luke 21's olivet discourse have nothing to do with Revelation 6's use of Isaiah 13:10 in the 6th seal.
Do you disagree with using scripture to interpret scripture?
This doesn't address anything I posted.
And what scriptural evidence do you have to support that it is happening this year?
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Timtofly
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I am not saying it is wrong. I am saying that is what you will do. I do not need 2 other verses to prove what happens in the 6th seal.
No
I will just sit and watch it happen. Reading Revelation 6 is all the proof I need.
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claninja
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So then my verses are not, in fact, random?
I disagree. Using scripture to interpret scripture helps to avoid personal interpretations.
There are hundreds of interpretations on revelation 6. Why is yours the correct one out of all them, especially when it doesn't involve using other scripture to help with interpretation?
Are you sure? Because you just stated you do not need 2 other verses to prove your interpretation of revelation 6. That would be the direct opposite of this answer.
And when it doesn't come to pass as you are predicting, I'll assume you'll just move your goal posts further into the future like all futurists have done for the last couple thousand years.
The Bible does lend some good advice in the event that someone does falsely predict the future. I would argue this is especially applicable for those who personally interpret prophecies.
Deuteronomy 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
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claninja
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I'll trust Jesus's words about those events happening in their life time as not being false, especially considering we have historical evidence that Jerusalem was indeed destroyed in 66-70ad.
Luke 23:28-30 But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed!’ At that time ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’
Luke 21:20-23 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people.
Luke 19:43-44 For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.
Do you believe Jerusalem did not fall in 66-70ad?
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Timtofly
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No you changed the subject to the Romans of 70 AD. Jesus' Second Coming was not before the church even started. That was still the time of His First Coming. Paul wrote on several occasions, the Second Coming had not happened. Some even in 70AD thought it was the end, but it was not. The NT claims it was not the Second Coming and all agreed, up until Augustine 300 years after the fact. Do you realize The US is not even 250 years removed from her birth. Do we today understand what George Washington faced? How could Augustine claim it was over 300 years after with 300 year old facts? His guess is only as good as current guesses. Most today are as wrong as he is, if they claim him as their authority.
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claninja
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I'm a partial preterist. I hold that the destruction of Jerusalem in 66-70ad was a coming of Christ in judgment upon Israel (olivet discourse) . I hold that revelation 6 is an apocalyptic telling of the olivet discourse.
So from my perspective (the partial preterist perspective), I have not changed the subject, as they are about the same thing.
what evidence do you have, besides your own personal opinion, that the seals of revelation 6 are being fulfilled in 2020? What scripture can you use to support your position that revelation is being fulfilled this year?
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Timtofly
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Revelation 6 does not mention Roman armies once. The proof I have is I can see the words of Revelation 6 happening. If you see what you see, or see what someone pointed out, only the Holy Spirit can point out the truth. It is your view against mine. I do not accept any teachings that date the seals over the past history, because history can be "written" to say anything. The facts of this year is that God halted the world this year. Many in the churches today, are calling foul, and why is the government not fixing things. What the church should be doing is asking God for guidance, not waiting for world government or world wide events period.
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