Neanderthals and Denisovans

Paul James · Apr 16, 2020

Shemjaza said:
I respect your right to just back away... but if there's something unjustified in my attitude I'd like to address it.

I think reducing disagreements to differences of opinion isn't helpful when points of fact can be defined and discussed. (Especially, when false statements can be discovered and corrected).

The issue is that we are on two different foundations, so my interpretation would be consistent with my foundation, while yours will be consistent with your foundation.

This means that you can freely express your views without being "flamed" for them (not by me at least), and I can put my views and people can accept them or not, as they wish.

So, the impasse consists in neither of us being prepared to step off our respective foundations. As long as the discussion remains respectful of each other's foundations, then I don't have a problem with it.

But as soon as anyone gets contentious, I back away because if would show a disrespect for my foundation, and any responses would be from a defensive attitude, and this is where acrimonious exchanges that tend to ruin a thread, start.

It has been my experience that when people say we should tolerate all views on a forum, it is usual that the Christian view is met with intolerance and personal "flaming", so it seems to me that every view except the fundamental Christian view is freely tolerated. Of course, it goes without saying that there are zealous Christians who express the same intolerance to non-Christian viewpoints. I am not one of them.

Subduction Zone · Apr 16, 2020

Paul James said:
The issue is that we are on two different foundations, so my interpretation would be consistent with my foundation, while yours will be consistent with your foundation.

This means that you can freely express your views without being "flamed" for them (not by me at least), and I can put my views and people can accept them or not, as they wish.

So, the impasse consists in neither of us being prepared to step off our respective foundations. As long as the discussion remains respectful of each other's foundations, then I don't have a problem with it.

But as soon as anyone gets contentious, I back away because if would show a disrespect for my foundation, and any responses would be from a defensive attitude, and this is where acrimonious exchanges that tend to ruin a thread, start.

It has been my experience that when people say we should tolerate all views on a forum, it is usual that the Christian view is met with intolerance and personal "flaming", so it seems to me that every view except the fundamental Christian view is freely tolerated. Of course, it goes without saying that there are zealous Christians who express the same intolerance to non-Christian viewpoints. I am not one of them.

There is nothing wrong with being a creationist in this part of the forum. But here you need to be ready to support your beliefs with reliable sources. If you have an "expert" then name him and be ready to show that he is published in well respected professional peer reviewed journals.

Speedwell · Apr 16, 2020

Paul James said:
It has been my experience that when people say we should tolerate all views on a forum, it is usual that the Christian view is met with intolerance and personal "flaming", so it seems to me that every view except the fundamental Christian view is freely tolerated. Of course, it goes without saying that there are zealous Christians who express the same intolerance to non-Christian viewpoints. I am not one of them.

Unfortunately, you may have to take some heat you did not earn because of the hostility of many of your co-religionists. I'm afraid that the fundamental Christian view has a bad reputation for being associated with intolerance.

MIDutch · Apr 16, 2020

Paul James said:
In the face of contention which will prove nothing, I will leave it to having my opinion and just allowing to have yours.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts".

Paul James · Apr 16, 2020

Speedwell said:
Unfortunately, you may have to take some heat you did not earn because of the hostility of many of your co-religionists. I'm afraid that the fundamental Christian view has a bad reputation for being associated with intolerance.

I agree. Having been associated with churches for a whole lifetime, I have experienced plenty of it, and I left left churches because of it. I settled on a middle-of-the road Presbyterian church and found much greater tolerance, with people respecting each other's privacy and freedom of lifestyle, and yet encouraging sound Christian faith.

Jimmy D · Apr 21, 2020

Shemjaza said:
I'm dubious about this expert. Can you present how they justify their competence?

The expert in question is renowned palaeontologist.... Todd Wood. ^_^

He doesn’t need to justify his competence, he’s preaching at some sort of creationist conference.

Jimmy D · Apr 21, 2020

Paul James said:
By the way, the lecturer is a world expert in examining ancient skulls and bones, so he knew what he was talking about.

From the pen of your world expert...

“Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure.”

The truth about evolution

Jimmy D · Apr 21, 2020

Reign2020 said:
There are Christians who find evolution to be true. But, just because evolution in their pov is true doesn't mean it cancels the existence of a Supreme Being. What if evolution was really a part of the creation process take took billions of years? Out from the "same" clay, every life was created.

A sensible approach IMO.

AV1611VET · Aug 6, 2020

Hope1960 said:
Are they humans?

Yes.

Shemjaza · Aug 6, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Yes.

Just a different kind of human.

AV1611VET · Aug 6, 2020

Shemjaza said:
Just a different kind of human.

Nope. They's wutchacaw Homo sapiens.

Occams Barber · Aug 6, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Nope. They's wutchacaw Homo sapiens.

Would that be Homo sapiens Denisova or Homo sapiens Neanderthalis or Home sapiens Sapiens?

OB

AV1611VET · Aug 6, 2020

Occams Barber said:
Would that be Homo sapiens Denisova or Homo sapiens Neanderthalis or Home sapiens Sapiens? OB

Well I don't care for calling human beings "Homo sapiens," since Paul says it can lead to atheism; but to answer your question from a Linnaean perspective, I'd say that's pretty accurate.

In my opinion, they were human beings that were afflicted with one of God's plagues.

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

Psalm 38 mentions one of these bone-altering plagues in detail.

AV1611VET · Aug 6, 2020

Occam, I just noticed your updated avatar, LOL.

Reminds me of this:

Occams Barber · Aug 6, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Occam, I just noticed your updated avatar, LOL.

Reminds me of this:

Nice of you to notice my nod to social responsibility...
Here's one for you.

(I couldn't resist covering up that toothy Alfred E Neuman grin

)
OB

AV1611VET · Aug 22, 2020

Occams Barber said:
Nice of you to notice my nod to social responsibility...
Here's one for you.

View attachment 282382
(I couldn't resist covering up that toothy Alfred E Neuman grin )
OB

It farbar weswere, fur oit th'cosswey, in two it farbar.

AV1611VET · Sep 1, 2020

empiric35 said:
I'm not sure. But your claim requires doing so with something.

FYI, God warned His people ...

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

And although I'm on here several times as saying I think David died of one of those bone-altering plagues (Psalm 38 & 39), I now believe God forgave David and spared him (Psalm 40).

JackRT · Sep 1, 2020

AV1611VET said:
What passage was I allegorizing?

Just the opposite I suspect. You were literalizing an allegory.

kiwimac · Sep 2, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Neanderthals and Denisovans came well after Adam and Eve.

Nope.

AV1611VET · Sep 2, 2020

kiwimac said:
Nope.

'Fraid so, chief. I believe they are a product of God's judgement, as forewarned in Deuteronomy.

Neanderthals and Denisovans

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Regular Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Newbie

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Newbie

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Well-Known Member

Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Similar threads