Has the Age of the Gentiles come to an end?

mkgal1 said:

That's prophetic Hebrew apocalyptic language. It's throughout the old testament....mostly describing God's coming in judgment against nations. One example of a fulfilled prophecy that demonstrates this is when Saul's kingdom was destroyed and David was vindicated.

2 Samuel 22:7-16

(Parallel Psalm 18:1-50)

I cried out to my God.

And from His temple He heard my voice,

and my cry for help reached His ears.8Then the earth shook and quaked;

the foundations of the heavensa trembled;

they were shaken because He burned with anger.9Smoke rose from His nostrils,

and consuming fire came from His mouth;

glowing coals blazed forth.10He parted the heavens and came down

with dark clouds beneath His feet.11He mounted a cherub and flew;

He soaredb on the wings of the wind.12He made darkness a canopy around Him,

a gathering of water and thick clouds.13From the brightness of His presence

coals of firec blazed forth.14The LORD thundered from heaven;

the voice of the Most High resounded.15He shot His arrows and scattered the foes;

He hurled lightning and routed them.16The channels of the sea appeared,

and the foundations of the world were exposed

at the rebuke of the LORD,

at the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

17He reached down from on high and took hold of me;

He drew me out of deep waters.18He rescued me from my powerful enemy,

from foes too mighty for me.
​

Some common apocalyptic metaphors are:

*the destruction of earth
*the bowing of the heavens
*the melting of the mountains like wax
*the blackening of the sun, moon, and stars
*the wiping away of every living thing
*blood as high as the mountains
*the burning of the earth and all that dwell in it (at His presence)
*Etc. etc.

This is known as APOCALYPTIC LANGUAGE, which is used by the prophets to foretell the downfall of nations and individuals by God in history. It is uniquely apocalyptic and hyperbolic in nature.
​

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So you don't believe anyone will actually see any of this?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: 'The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.'
Matthew 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

shilohsfoal said:

I don't recall Josephus ever saying the stars fell from the sky or anything the like.

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Josephus mentioned that the elements in the temple symbolized the various elements of the universe and that the temple drapes bore the images of stars. And the same Jewish historian also recounted supernatural portents in the heavens that the Jews had witnessed before their demise at the hands of the Romans. It is almost certain our Lord was referencing the temple itself when he mentioned the passing away of the heavens. Now, it is also true that what happened to the Jews in AD 70 was a microcosm of what will happen at the end of the world.

shilohsfoal said:

So you don't believe anyone will actually see any of this?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: 'The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.'
Matthew 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

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Josephus also mentioned that the Jews had witnessed an army in the heavens.

trulytheone said:

Josephus also mentioned that the Jews had witnessed an army in the heavens.

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Right...and i believe that was in 66 AD...allowing the faithful followers of Jesus enough time to flee to the mountains as instructed.

ETA:
Josephus wrote...

This is why one must have a copy of Wars of the Jews (the other title is Jewish War) by Josephus when one intends to interpret the Olivet Discourse.

trulytheone said:

Josephus also mentioned that the Jews had witnessed an army in the heavens.

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I think it's been confirmed the Sword was halleys comment in 66 ad.

But from what Jesus says, the stars fall after the tribulation.

mkgal1 said:

Right...and i believe that was in 66 AD...allowing the faithful followers of Jesus enough time to flee to the mountains as instructed.

ETA:
Josephus wrote...

[O]n the twenty-first day of the month of Artemisius [Jyar], a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.The Wars of the Jews 6.5.3." title="" aria-describedby="qtip-0" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; outline: none; color: rgb(33, 117, 155);">1

Tacitus also wrote of this occurance:
“In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour.”The Histories 5.13." title="" aria-describedby="qtip-1" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; outline: none; color: rgb(33, 117, 155);">2​

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One of the few supernatural events in history recorded in Jewish and Pagan sources (though Tacitus may be relying on Josephus here).

shilohsfoal said:

I think it's been confirmed the Sword was galleys comment in 66 ad.

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You mean "Halley's Comet"?
I believe Josephus wrote of a separate vision in the sky that appeared to look like a sword. That's different than the appearance of "chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds".

But from what Jesus says, the stars fall after the tribulation.

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.....and the apostate Sinai religious system did fall after the tribulation. The warning was separate from the actual fall (or else they wouldn't have had time to flee in time).

https://www.thatancientfaith.uk/home/perma/1449141500/article/the-coming-of-jesus-the-olive.html

mkgal1 said:

You mean "Halley's Comet"?
I believe Josephus wrote of a separate vision in the sky that appeared to look like a sword. That's different than the appearance of "chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds".


.....and the apostate Sinai religious system did fall after the tribulation. The warning was separate from the actual fall (or else they wouldn't have had time to flee in time).

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So if judaism fell, then why is is it still the dominate religion in Israel today?
From what I've read, rabbinic Judaism came from the Pharisees.
Rabbinic Judaism - Wikipedia

shilohsfoal said:

So if judaism fell, then why is is it still the dominate religion in Israel today?
From what I've read, rabbinic Judaism came from the Pharisees.
Rabbinic Judaism - Wikipedia

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I didn't post that Judaism fell.....I said Sinai Mosaic Judaism fell in 70 AD. Rabbinic Judaism is a separate religion from biblical Judaism that's not based on temple rituals and animal sacrifices. Biblical Sinai Judaism was based on a temporary covenant between God and Moses and the Israelite assembly. That's ended.

From C.H. Spurgeon:
A Sermon
(No. 267)
Delivered on Sabbath Morning, August 14th, 1859, by
the
REV. C.H. SPURGEON
at the Music Hall, Royal Surrey Gardens.


UNDER THE OLD Mosaic dispensation God had a visible dwelling-place among men. The bright shekinah was seen between the wings of the cherubim which overehadowed the mercy-seat; and in the tabernacle while Israel journeyed in the wilderness, and in the temple afterwards, when they were established in their own land, there was a visible manifestation of the presence of Jehovah in the place which was dedicated to his service. Now, everything under the Mosaic dispensation was but a type, a picture, a symbol of something higher and nobler. That form of worship was, as it were, a series of shadow-pictures, of which the gospel is the substance.

Hear ye the words of Jesus, "Believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." Remember, again, the saying of the apostle at Athens, "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands."

mkgal1 said:

I didn't post that Judaism fell.....I said Sinai Mosaic Judaism fell in 70 AD. Rabbinic Judaism is a separate religion from biblical Judaism that's not based on temple rituals and animal sacrifices. Biblical Sinai Judaism was based on a temporary covenant.

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It was about 12 generations from Moses to Solomon. I'm guessing they really didn't need a temple to sacrifice a lamb?
If they needed one they went 480 years before they started it.

shilohsfoal said:

It was about 43 generations from Moses to Solomon. I'm guessing they really didn't need a temple to sacrifice a lamb.

If they needed one they went 480 years before they started it.

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They had the tent of meeting (tabernacle) prior to Solomon's temple.....and it was unlawful to make sacrifices outside of the requirements laid out in Exodus.

Exodus 35:4—40:38

mkgal1 said:

They had the tent of meeting (tabernacle) prior to Solomon's temple.....and it was unlawful to make sacrifices outside of the requirements laid out in Exodus.

Exodus 35:4—40:38

View attachment 282325

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I don't think it really meant anything anyway.
Just a shadow of things to come.

Hebrews 10:4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

shilohsfoal said:

I don't think it really meant anything anyway.
Just a shadow of things to come.

Hebrews 10:4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

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They didn't know that at the time. This was how they - the Israelite assembly - "met" with God and experienced His presence. Their entire life was dependent upon the Tabernacle.

mkgal1 said:

They didn't know that at the time. This was how they - the Israelite assembly - "met" with God and experienced His presence. Their entire life was dependent upon the Tabernacle.

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I thought only the high priest was allowed in God's presence?
Like Christ is the only one to ascend to heaven to be in God's presence.

shilohsfoal said:

I thought only the high priest was allowed in God's presence?
Like Christ is the only one to ascend to heaven to be in God's presence.

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Yes.....they needed a mediator. Jesus is now our High Priest mediator.

shilohsfoal said:

So you don't believe anyone will actually see any of this?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: 'The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.'
Matthew 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

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It’s possible that Jesus referred to the sun, the moon, and the stars so that His ancient biblical Jewish listeners would be reminded of Joseph’s dream in which “the sun, the moon, and eleven stars” bowed down to him (Genesis 37:9). In that way - these would be symbols of ancient Israel, in addition to speaking of the collapse of a political structure.

Gup20 said:

Has the Age of the Gentiles come to an end?

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Nov, 9 2012 The UN recognize Palestine (a bunch of Jordanian squatter's in 1948) as a state. And proclaimed East Jerusalem to belong to them.

Under current international law, Israel is seen as an illegal occupier. Furthermore, the Temple Mt (where God placed His name (2 Chron 6:6, I Kings 9:3) is currently under Jordanian (Waqf) custodianship.

A partial list of Gods land covenant promises w/Israel:

God established that the land of Israel belongs to Him (Lev 25:23, Deut 11:12)

God states that this covenant of land is based on "His" eternal character, "Not" on Israel's own righteousness. He makes clear that even when they forsake His will, He will "NEVER" forget His covenant (Lev:26:42-45, Jer 31:35-37, Ps 89:30-37)

Jerusalem is the "Capital of Israel" (Ps 87:1-2, Ps 132:13-14)

God gives the exact boundaries of the promised land in Num 34:1-15 (Deut 1:8, Ex 2:24, Ex 6:4, 8 & Ps 105:8-11)

King David "bought" the threshing floor (37 acre Temple Mt area) from Araunah the Jebusite. & built an altar to the Lord so that a “plague may be held back from the people” (2 Sam 24:18, 21 & 1 Chron 21.

The time/age of the gentiles ends upon Jesus soon return. The Kingdom of Heaven begins when the King who literally comes from heaven (Rev 17:14, 19:16) sets up His government.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: """and the government shall be upon his shoulder""": and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I don't believe anyone can give an exact time as to when:

Matt 24:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
(NOTE: Only God the Father knows the exact time.)

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(NOTE: Soon very Soon!)

Some additional context:

Rev 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Post is My Opinion Only.

shilohsfoal said:

There was no temple at Sinai so I'm not sure what system your saying ended.Where is the Sinai temple in the Bible and when was it built?

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I had posted, "The removal of the Temple and the entire Sinai religious system is proof to me of that."

The Mosaic Covenant was a temporary covenant that pointed to its fulfillment of the true "temple" being Christ Jesus (the actual intersection of 'Heaven and humanity').

The covenant is recorded here:


The origin of the Temple and rituals began with Moses and the Israelites and their tabernacle. The tabernacle is often described by the use of the Hebrew idiom of "heaven and earth" because it was believed that was where God and humanity came together. That ended when Jesus revealed what the Law and prophets were prophesying. There was creation of a New Heaven and Earth (New Covenant). We know this, because the entire old covenant system is gone....that was the UNTIL in Matthew 5:18.

mkgal1 said:

I had posted, "The removal of the Temple and the entire Sinai religious system is proof to me of that."

The Mosaic Covenant was a temporary covenant that pointed to its fulfillment of the true "temple" being Christ Jesus (the actual intersection of 'Heaven and humanity').

The covenant is recorded here:

Exodus 19:3-6 Then Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain and said, 'This is what you are to say to the house of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel:

"4 You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles'wings1 and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."

These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.'"​

The origin of the Temple and rituals began with Moses and the Israelites and their tabernacle. The tabernacle is often described by the use of the Hebrew idiom of "heaven and earth" because it was believed that was where God and humanity came together. That ended when Jesus revealed what the Law and prophets were prophesying. There was creation of a New Heaven and Earth (New Covenant). We know this, because the entire old covenant system is gone....that was the UNTIL in Matthew 5:18.

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Gog will soon keep his promice to the Israelites who keep his covenant. God always keeps his word.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.